What a complex and sad tale, Bill.Thank you for posting it. Kind regards Joy > To: isabelj@talktalk.net; cornish@rootsweb.com; cornish-gen@rootsweb.com > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:35:59 -0500 > Subject: [CORNISH-GEN] The West Briton, 15 Oct 1858, suicide of Grace LIDSTONE > From: cornish-gen@rootsweb.com > > The West Briton (Friday, 15 Oct 1858) reported the very sad death by suicide > of Grace LIDSTONE at St. Just in Penwith (see below).

The West Briton (Friday, 15 Oct 1858) reported the very sad death by suicide of Grace LIDSTONE at St. Just in Penwith (see below). Grace WOOLCOCK was baptized 18 Dec 1814 at St. Just in Penwith, the daughter of William WOOLCOCK and his wife Elizabeth HARVEY. Her father was a miner when she was baptized, although he was described as a farmer when her second marriage took place in 1840. Grace WOOLCOCK married William BREWER on 07 Jan 1857 at Mawgan in Pydar. She and her husband had two daughters born at St. Columb, Elizabeth (baptized at Mawgan in Pydar on the first day of 1838) and Mary Ann (baptized at St. Just in Penwith in 1839). Her husband, a miner, died at age 27 at Chyoon, St. Just in Penwith and was buried in that parish on 12 Sep 1839. The widowed Grace BREWER married William Lidstowe POPE (sic) at Sancreed on 28 Jul 1840. The marriage record indicates that his father was William LIDSTONE, suggesting that perhaps his birth may have been illegitimate. The surname of Grace's second husband can best be described as confusing, appearing in various records as LEADSTONE, LEDSTONE, LIDSTONE, and LOADSTONE. William & Grace LEADSTONE, and the two daughters by her first marriage, lived at Brane, Sancreed at the 1841 Census, and he was a tin miner born "not in county." William & Grace LEDSTONE remained at Brane at the 1851 Census, with the record describing him as a mine labourer born in Nottingham. Their family consisted of her daughter Mary Ann BREWER and five LEDSTONE children born subsequent to the 1841 Census. Grace met her end in the sad 1858 incident described by The West Briton (see below). The Coroner did not speculate as to her state of mind at the time of her death, but it should certainly be noted that the death of her youngest child, 3 year old Harriet Jessey LEDSTONE, earlier in 1858 might have impacted her mental health. Moreover, the fact that Grace's relatives insisted upon a proper medical examination following the Coroner's inquest, at which the physician "Mr. Searle, of St. Just, examined the body and satisfied himself and Mrs. Lidstone's friends that death had resulted from her own hands and in the manner indicated," hints strongly at the possibility that William LEDSTONE may have been somewhat less than a prince charming. Following the 1858 tragedy, the widowed William married Elizabeth HOSKING in the Penzance registration district during 3Q1859. Elizabeth was born circa 1828 at St. Just in Penwith. Two children are known to have been born to their marriage, daughter Margaret Ann (circa 1860) and son James Richard (circa 1866). William and his second wife and family lived at St. Just in Penwith at the 1861, 1871, 1881, and 1891 Census. In those records he was said to have been born in in Devon at Kingsbridge (61), Plymouth (71,91), or Henobridge (81). Elizabeth died at New Downs, St. Just in Penwith in 1890, and her 09 Apr 1890 burial appears in the parish register. William died at New Downs 5 years later and was buried 13 May 1895 at the Wesleyan Cemetery in St. Just. Bill Curnow Port Charlotte, FL, USA > DETERMINED SUICIDE - On Tuesday the 5th instant, GRACE LIDSTONE > committed suicide under the following painful circumstances. WILLIAM > LIDSTONE, a miner who works at Ballaswidden mine, resides in a tenement > near Brain, in the parish of Sancreed. Deceased was his wife. She was > about 44 years of age, and had been twice married, having had two children > by her first and seven by her second husband. On Tuesday, the 8th, her > husband came home to dinner about two o'clock, and a conversation ensued > between them about a house and cow she was desirous he should take. This > had formerly been talked over by them, and she was particularly anxious he > should rent the house in question. The husband said he could not take it, > for it was let already, and she then made the awful threat -"If thee'st > let the house go, the devil shall have my soul and thine very shortly, and > the sooner the better." The man went outside the door to thatch a > furze-rick, and his boy went with him, leaving a little girl who was > unwell, sitting by the chimney. Nothing unusual transpired until about > five, when a younger boy came home from school and asked his sister where > his mother was. He was told upstairs. The husband came in and said "go > up stairs and see for your mother." The little boy went up and at once > returned, screaming that his mother was hung. Lidstone went up stairs > and, thinking his wife was only playing a trick, said "what hast thee done > now?" He found, however, that she was dead and called for assistance. A > neighbour named WATERS, his son and Mr. WILLIAM OLDS, butcher, of Brain, > ran in and cut Mrs. Lidstone down, but she was quite dead. The method in > which she had destroyed herself was as follows:- > Above a space between the foot of the bed and a box she had thrown a black > handkerchief over the key-beam (one of the beams of an open roof.) Then > taking a woollen cravat, she had placed it round her neck double, > attaching each end of the cravat to each end of the handkerchief, and her > neck was suspended in a lasso. As this was done while standing on the bed > and box she had the space to drop into. The cravat stretched, however, > and when found her feet touched the ground, her knees were bent, and her > head inclined to the left. The weight of the body had caused a deep welt > under the left ear. She had on her washing-gown, and must have left her > husband, and at once set about her death. A coroner's inquest was held on > Thursday, before Mr. HITCHENS, and a verdict returned of "Suicide, but in > what state of mine [mind] there is no evidence to prove." On the next > day, by particular request of the wife's relatives, (as no medical man was > called at the death or at the inquest,) Mr. Searle, of St. Just, examined > the body and satisfied himself and Mrs. Lidstone's friends that death had > resulted from her own hands and in the manner indicated.

No, marriages by licence took place at a parish church. The application Bond & Allegation) would have been kept in the Diocesan office and copies of all marriage register entries were sent to the Bishop (Bishop's Transcripts) but the marriages by licence were not treated any differently.(unless of course the Allegation proved false and the Church would claim the money put up by the bondsman as well as prosecuting the offender for bigamy, incest or whatever). As has already been said, normally a licence named the specific church but the even more expensive special licence which could only be granted by the Archbishop of Canterbury allowed the couple to marry anywhere. Marriages by licence were the same as any other marriage, the licence just allowed the usual rule of a public announcement for 3 consecutive weeks to be bent. There is nothing anywhere that suggests that Holy Trinity acted as a sub office for the cathedral and I think it unlikely. I looked on FMP at the original images for the Holy Trinity, Exeter and the Thomas Mitchell who married Rebecca in 1747 was "of Ottery St Mary". Thomas Mitchell and Eliz Skinner who married 1744 were both "of this parish" and no mention of licence on the the entry. The marriage you are looking for may be at a church which has not been transcribed or the records may be lost or badly damaged. Joy On Monday, 24 Nov, 2014 at 12:05, Liz & Tom Thompson via<cornish-gen@rootsweb.com> wrote: Hello, Many thanks to Maureen, Joy and Alan for their replies. As you will know, I am trying to find a marriage that took place in or around Plymouth in about 1747. As well as one at Brixton (3 miles east of Plymouth) there were two at Holy Trinity, Exeter, but these seemed to have happened too far away to be relevant. Someone then suggested that the marraige may have been by licence, particularly since my Thomas Mitchell was a sailor/marine. Hence I wondered whether, since the whole of Cornwall and Devon came under one Diocese centred on Exeter, licenced marriages were "collected together" in Exeter, in the "mother church" and not recorded in the local register. I have since found that there is/was a Holy Trinity Church in South Street, Exeter, a mere stone's throw from the Cathedral, so maybe that acted as a "sub-office" at the time? In the absence of anything better I think the marriage in Brixton is the most likely. However, although Thomas, his wife and child returned to his home village of St Agnes, I haven't found a burial record for the wife in the St Agnes registers, and I don't know the child's name either. If anyone has any other ideas, I'd be grateful to hear of them. Tom Thompson, St Agnes. ------------------------------- Listmom: ybowers@gmail.com or CORNISH-GEN-admin@rootsweb.com Visit the OPC (Online Parish Clerk) web page for transcription information http://www.cornwall-opc.org/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CORNISH-GEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, Many thanks to Maureen, Joy and Alan for their replies. As you will know, I am trying to find a marriage that took place in or around Plymouth in about 1747. As well as one at Brixton (3 miles east of Plymouth) there were two at Holy Trinity, Exeter, but these seemed to have happened too far away to be relevant. Someone then suggested that the marraige may have been by licence, particularly since my Thomas Mitchell was a sailor/marine. Hence I wondered whether, since the whole of Cornwall and Devon came under one Diocese centred on Exeter, licenced marriages were "collected together" in Exeter, in the "mother church" and not recorded in the local register. I have since found that there is/was a Holy Trinity Church in South Street, Exeter, a mere stone's throw from the Cathedral, so maybe that acted as a "sub-office" at the time? In the absence of anything better I think the marriage in Brixton is the most likely. However, although Thomas, his wife and child returned to his home village of St Agnes, I haven't found a burial record for the wife in the St Agnes registers, and I don't know the child's name either. If anyone has any other ideas, I'd be grateful to hear of them. Tom Thompson, St Agnes.

Hi Hilton, Thanks for your reply however I want to contact others who have these people in their tree and visiting the OPC (Online Parish Clerk) web page for transcription information does not tell me this. Cheers, Jen. ----- Original Message ----- On: Sunday, November 23, 2014 Hilton Doidge wrote: Subject: [CORNISH-GEN] Fwd: Elizabeth UDY and Elizabeth SWEET > Visit the OPC (Online Parish Clerk) web page for transcription information > http://www.cornwall-opc.org/

Looking for any information on... John DOIDGE b Cornwall c1750, married Jane DIAMOND 1774, Calstock... 8 known children. Thank you Hilton Doidge New Zealand

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [CORNISH-GEN] Elizabeth UDY and Elizabeth SWEET Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 01:19:53 +1100 From: Jenny Meadows via <cornish-gen@rootsweb.com> Reply-To: Jenny Meadows <jenny@toptensoftware.com>, cornish-gen@rootsweb.com To: cornish@rootsweb.com, cornish-gen@rootsweb.com Looking for information on - Elizabeth UDY baptised 11 Jan 1673 in St Wenn daughter of Peter UDY and Joan BALL who married on 03 Jun 1672 in St. Wenn. Elizabeth SWEET baptised 03 Aug 1673 in Withiel daughter of Thomas SWEET and Mary WILLIAMS who married on 03 Aug 1665 in Withiel. Does anyone have either of these families in their trees? Thanks, Jen. ------------------------------- Listmom: ybowers@gmail.com or CORNISH-GEN-admin@rootsweb.com Visit the OPC (Online Parish Clerk) web page for transcription information http://www.cornwall-opc.org/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CORNISH-GEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4213/8604 - Release Date: 11/21/14

Looking for any information on... Peter Diamond DOIDGE b Calstock, Feb. 1778 who married Ann FOOT. c 1803... 12 known children... Thank you Hilton Doidge New Zealand

Normally the licence should state where the marriage was to be performed. Of course a licence does not mean that a marriage actually occurred - eg the licence might be obtained by the poor law overseer to facilitate a marriage and and thus reduce the risk of a pregnant girl becoming the liability to the parish; the groom might then refuse to go through with the marriage. However I have also found elsewhere (in Cheshire) that on occasion there has been no record in the church register of the marriage itself although the couple subsequently lived as man and wife. Alan Swindale > -----Original Message----- > From: cornish-gen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cornish-gen- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Joy Langdon via > Sent: 23 November 2014 11:39 > To: lizandtom65@btinternet.com > Cc: CORNISH-GEN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CORNISH-GEN] Marriage by licence > > I am not sure what you mean by registered. The marriage will be > recorded in the parish register of the church where the marriage took > place. The only difference to other entries will be that it will say > "by licence" instead of "by banns". > > There was no Civil Registration until 1837. The application for the > licence would be to the Diocesan office. Until 1876 Cornwall was in > the diocese of Exeter. You might find the Bond & Allegation at Devon > Heritage Centre if it survives. This is the form the applicant filled > out swearing there was no impediment to the marriage and the agreement > by another person to pay a fine if the declaration proved false. > Normally, the declaration of banns three times before the marriage in > the bride and groom's parishes allowed objections to be made. The > licence was given to the applicant who passed it the cleric performing > the marriage. A licence was expensive so usually people of higher > status obtained them but soldiers and sailors often married by licence > because they were unable to attend the reading of banns for the > required > 3 weeks prior to the marriage. > > The cathedral of Exeter dedicated to St Peter dates from 1050. > Presumably Holy Trinity was the parish where the marriage you found > took place. > > Joy Langdon > > On Saturday, 22 Nov, 2014 at 22:20, Liz & Tom Thompson via<cornish- > gen@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > If a marriage were conducted by licence in Plymouth, or even Cornwall, > in > the 1750s, where would it have been registered? On FamilySearch, I > have > found some at Holy Trinity, Exeter. Today, Holy Trinity is in Wonford, > a > suburb of Exeter, but was that the dedication of the Cathedral at the > time? > Today it seems to be St Peter's. > > Tom Thompson, > St Agnes. > > > ------------------------------- > Listmom: ybowers@gmail.com or CORNISH-GEN-admin@rootsweb.com > > Visit the OPC (Online Parish Clerk) web page for transcription > information http://www.cornwall-opc.org/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CORNISH-GEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- > Listmom: ybowers@gmail.com or CORNISH-GEN-admin@rootsweb.com > > Visit the OPC (Online Parish Clerk) web page for transcription > information http://www.cornwall-opc.org/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CORNISH-GEN- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

I am not sure what you mean by registered. The marriage will be recorded in the parish register of the church where the marriage took place. The only difference to other entries will be that it will say "by licence" instead of "by banns". There was no Civil Registration until 1837. The application for the licence would be to the Diocesan office. Until 1876 Cornwall was in the diocese of Exeter. You might find the Bond & Allegation at Devon Heritage Centre if it survives. This is the form the applicant filled out swearing there was no impediment to the marriage and the agreement by another person to pay a fine if the declaration proved false. Normally, the declaration of banns three times before the marriage in the bride and groom's parishes allowed objections to be made. The licence was given to the applicant who passed it the cleric performing the marriage. A licence was expensive so usually people of higher status obtained them but soldiers and sailors often married by licence because they were unable to attend the reading of banns for the required 3 weeks prior to the marriage. The cathedral of Exeter dedicated to St Peter dates from 1050. Presumably Holy Trinity was the parish where the marriage you found took place. Joy Langdon On Saturday, 22 Nov, 2014 at 22:20, Liz & Tom Thompson via<cornish-gen@rootsweb.com> wrote: If a marriage were conducted by licence in Plymouth, or even Cornwall, in the 1750s, where would it have been registered? On FamilySearch, I have found some at Holy Trinity, Exeter. Today, Holy Trinity is in Wonford, a suburb of Exeter, but was that the dedication of the Cathedral at the time? Today it seems to be St Peter's. Tom Thompson, St Agnes. ------------------------------- Listmom: ybowers@gmail.com or CORNISH-GEN-admin@rootsweb.com Visit the OPC (Online Parish Clerk) web page for transcription information http://www.cornwall-opc.org/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CORNISH-GEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Looking for information on - Elizabeth UDY baptised 11 Jan 1673 in St Wenn daughter of Peter UDY and Joan BALL who married on 03 Jun 1672 in St. Wenn. Elizabeth SWEET baptised 03 Aug 1673 in Withiel daughter of Thomas SWEET and Mary WILLIAMS who married on 03 Aug 1665 in Withiel. Does anyone have either of these families in their trees? Thanks, Jen.

Exeter parishes are listed here and include the parish of Holy Trinity: http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/Exeter/ Regards, Maureen On 22/11/2014 22:20, Liz & Tom Thompson via wrote: > If a marriage were conducted by licence in Plymouth, or even Cornwall, in > the 1750s, where would it have been registered? On FamilySearch, I have > found some at Holy Trinity, Exeter. Today, Holy Trinity is in Wonford, a > suburb of Exeter, but was that the dedication of the Cathedral at the time? > Today it seems to be St Peter's. > > Tom Thompson, > St Agnes. > > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

If a marriage were conducted by licence in Plymouth, or even Cornwall, in the 1750s, where would it have been registered? On FamilySearch, I have found some at Holy Trinity, Exeter. Today, Holy Trinity is in Wonford, a suburb of Exeter, but was that the dedication of the Cathedral at the time? Today it seems to be St Peter's. Tom Thompson, St Agnes.

sorry I meant 20 th june Di

I have a birthdate of 30 june, 1865, which quarter of the UK BDM’s would I need to get to confirm this? Dianne

Hi Dianne Before 1874 although registration of events was compulsory, the onus was on the registrar to seek the event out, there was no penalty for not registering, although by 1865 most births were registered, some were missed, in 1874 that changed to place the onus on the parents, relatives or owner of the house where it occurred In theory events should be registered as soon as possible after they occurred The quarters being January to March, April to June, July to September, October to December An event of the 20th June might be registered in the second quarter April to June, but its more likely to be in the third quarter July to September, however it might be later or not at all If you don't find your event, also look for male (Surname) or female (Surname) as some were registered before a name was chosen for the child Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 22/11/2014 09:47, dianneb851 via wrote: > I have a birthdate of 30 june, 1865, which quarter of the UK BDM’s would I need to get to confirm this? > Dianne

Doesn't really make any difference whether it is 20th or 30th June. It could be 2nd Quarter or 3rd Quarter - most likely, 2nd quarter. You may find it difficult to locate on the GRO as the records at that time were very difficult to read and many were missed out. The families were given 42 days to register a child but if the parents weren't married and the father was at sea (or elsewhere) they could well lie! My MIL was born on 2nd March but as her partner was at sea and didn't come home until it was too late, rather than pay the fine, they told the Registrar that she was born on 9th March. They married after they'd had 6 children and went on to have a total of 11. Liz -----Original Message----- From: cornish-gen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cornish-gen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dianneb851 via Sent: 22 November 2014 09:48 To: CORNISH-GEN@rootsweb.com Subject: [CORNISH-GEN] birth date UK I have a birthdate of 30 june, 1865, which quarter of the UK BDM’s would I need to get to confirm this? Dianne ------------------------------- Listmom: ybowers@gmail.com or CORNISH-GEN-admin@rootsweb.com Visit the OPC (Online Parish Clerk) web page for transcription information http://www.cornwall-opc.org/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CORNISH-GEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Looking for children of Stephen Penberthy and Ann nee Thurleby who married 1679 in Cornwall. Did they have a son Richard? Does Richard Bowes have this family? Much appreciated. Di >From Diane Penberthy, sent from my iPad.

Folks, Unfortunately, when a list member gets a virus and their email is hacked, the Rootsweb listserv sometimes fails to filter out the message and it gets through to the list. We had one such example today. In the case of this AOL lister, she probably doesn't know she's been hacked and messages may not even get to her. What you should do if you receive a SPAM mail from the list: 1) Do NOT click on URL or reply to the message. Simply delete the message. 2) Do NOT report or flag the email as SPAM. Rootsweb will take care of that. (With AOL, and some other ISPs, if you do that you are immediately, and I mean immediately, unsubbed by the listserv. 3) Do contact the person privately if you like, to let them know, especially if you have an alternate address for him/her. 4) Do NOT forward the email intact to anyone else. 5) Do NOT repost the message to the list or reply on the list. As Listmom this is what I do when it happens: 1) Immediately put the person on "moderate" and attempt to let them know they've been hijacked. 3) Monitor the person's messages until there are no more virus emails, then restore their status. *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Yvonne Bowers Listmom/Webmom CORNISH, CORNISH-GEN, CA-CORNISH <ybowers@gmail.com> http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~yvonne/cornishlib/cornishlib.htm Yvonne's Rootsweb Resource Page http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~yvonne/

The West Briton (Friday, 01 Oct 1858) reported on the following case brought before the Camborne Petty Sessions: "RICHARD PAULL, innkeeper, at St. Erth, was fined £3 and costs, for allowing drunkenness and fighting in his house, on the 13th of August; and LOUISA PAULL, wife of the above, was fined £1 and costs, for assaulting RICHARD HOSKING, a parish constable, of Gwinear, who was passing by Paull's house at the time." The surnames PAULL and FAULL were often confused, and the above report is no exception. The charges were actually brought against Richard FAULL and his wife Louisa. Richard FAULL, son of Henry and Elizabeth FAULL, was born at St. Erth and baptized at nearby Crowan in 1803. He married Maria Louisa COOPER at Uny Lelant in 1837. Her preference for being called Louisa is reflected both in the marriage registration and subsequent census records. She was baptized in 1815 at Uny Lelant, the daughter of Thomas COOPER and his wife Jane Arundell TUCK. Richard FAULL and wife had at least 7 children. He and his family lived in St. Erth at the 1841, 1851, and 1861 Census. He was a farmer at his marriage and at the 1841 and 1851 enumerations. He was an innkeeper in 1861. Bill Curnow Port Charlotte, FL, USA