Hi Bennie, Tom and Mike Great to hear from you. From Bennie: >I'm a little confused about what you would have in your family history book that >might fit under the copyright (US) rules? If it's just names, dates, places, >compiled by you and from info obtained from family members, I don't see a problem, >IF you have their OK to publish the info in the book. "That" book (as I call it) is about two Phelan sisters from Clonmel, Ireland who migrated to Australia in 1841 and their descendants. Collectively they raised 15 children, most of whom produced rather large families. My database contains almost 9,000 names. Yes, I do have permission from family members to publish their notes and, of course, those precious photographs. So many others have contributed to the history and I have acknowledged each of them. As I did not want to end up with a family history simply about 'hatches, matches and dispatches', I began to add various interesting historical 'snippets' found in so many sources. As time went by these notes expanded and the reader is to be given an insight into historical factors which influenced the lives of their ancestors. Newspaper articles; government records; government gazettes; sentences and paragraphs plucked from various books I have read pertaining to Australian history - etc. From Bennie: >If you are quoting parts of another book somewhere, I think that is OK, too, as long >as you give the source. Of course, another question would come up if you plan to >publish the book for profit. Not publishing 'that' book for profit - my desire is to share my research with those who, like me, descend from these Phelan sisters and to leave behind me the story of our family for those who will come after us. I too, thought it was OK to use the odd paras from other's work, as long as I quote the author and source. That is until I read (and tried to understand) the copyright issues. It seems that I MUST get the permission of the author as well. From Aus. Copyright Council - "Copyright is infringed by a person who reproduces your work without your permission, unless one of the special exceptions in the Copyright Act applies.......Using part of a work may infringe copyright if that part is important to the work - it need not be a proportionally large part. This is a question of fact and degree in each case. The special exceptions allow use of copyright material for purposes such as private study, and for criticism or review." If I use a poem authored by 'Anonymous' - I am not exempt from infringing copyright just because I could not find the author. From Mike: "2. Copyrighted material that appears in United States federal documents is still copyrighted. For instance, if a copyright court case cites material from the work that is alleged to have been infringed, that part of the work that is cited does NOT go into the public domain." Naturally I had not considered I would be discussing my copyright woes with US citizens and I am unable to determine if there are any differences, and, if so, which ones differ. Perhaps one instance (I may be wrong) is where an author has been deceased for over 50 years, it is ok to copy - that's in Aus. In the U.S. I believe the author has to have been deceased for 75 years. Right or wrong? The various 'Information sheets' pulled from Aus. Copyright Council website seem to be telling me that even Government records and newspaper articles are copyrighted. Hence my sudden onset of panic. As I mentioned in my first posting to this newsgroup I am waiting on the arrival of a book I ordered from this council which concentrates on Copyright and Family History. Guess my answers will be there - sure hope so. From Tom: (commenting on Bennie's opinion that it is not a copyright infringement if one quotes the author) "Maybe someday this misconception will go away. Except for the Fair Use exception, copyright-protected material can not be used without permission no matter whether the use is profit or non-profit." THIS is my greatest concern. I have so many little bits 'n pieces written by others and the task of finding all these authors to ask permission is frightening. Stuff like the voyage from Ireland to Australia; this ship; passenger conditions; passenger provisions; criteria to be met as assisted passengers. etc. etc. Some of this I found in Govt. records and old newspapers, some I er, um, - - - borrowed from various authors. What constitutes 'Fair Use' ? From Tom: "First off, be mindful of copyright expiration. Under US law, anything published before 1923 is now public domain." That's 77 years. My understanding is 50 years 'Down Under'. Tom I really appreciate your comments. As I read these trying to absorb, I find myself having to read again as each issue seems awefully complicated. My purpose in joining this newsgroup is to see what others who have published their family history have experienced with regards this copyright question. Am I worrying unnecessarily? Thank you, I appreciate your comments. Regards Kay -----Original Message----- From: Bennie White <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Saturday, 18 November 2000 3:31 Subject: Re: Copyright & Family History >Kay, don't believe we're gonna get a rise out of Scott, but I'll throw my 2 cents in. >I'm a little confused about what you would have in your family history book that >might fit under the copyright (US) rules? If it's just names, dates, places, >compiled by you and from info obtained from family members, I don't see a problem, >IF you have their OK to publish the info in the book. > >If you are quoting parts of another book somewhere, I think that is OK, too, as long >as you give the source. Of course, another question would come up if you plan to >publish the book for profit. > >I, too, plan to publish a family history in the near future, but copyright issues had >not crossed my mind. > >Australian copyright guidelines may be different than the US. Scott, you're one of >the experts here, what do you say? > >Bennie > > >Kay Clark wrote: >> >> Hi group >> >> A big thank you to Scott, Korene, Bennie and Cliff for letting me know this >> newsgroup is still 'alive'. >> >> I found Copyright newsgroup at Rootsweb, hoping those who have subscribed >> would have done so because they are confused with copyright issues >> pertaining >> to family history research. >> >> As with other subscribers (I guess) I am currently writing a book about my >> family and it's history. >> >> Having spent six solid years having fun collecting information and >> connecting to others throughout the world my research just grew 'n grew >> (just like Topsy!). That book which my rellies have kidded me about writing >> began to materialise before my eyes. My experiences have been interesting, >> to say the least, and fun, at most times; frustrating at others. >> >> It seemed to me that my 'fun' and fascination quickly ended when I began to >> look at copyright issues. Went to the Australian Copyright Council website >> and downloaded the Aus. Copyright Act. Boy oh Boy! Hundreds of pages of >> complicated legal terminology - I wondered if I had incorrectly chose the >> wrong language as a fair deal of this is not in the English language my >> limited knowledge understands. >> >> Since then I have found various booklets published by this same Copyright >> Council and some of these relate to family history. Have ordered a book >> from them and look forward to being able to see just what this copyright >> caper is all about! >> >> My need soon became evident that I should communicate with others who are >> "in the same boat". >> >> My question at this stage: >> Are you all interested in copyright issues in relation to family history? >> >> Have thousands of other questions to ask, but will wait to see if this >> booklet answers any of these. >> >> I could be wrong, but think the copyright laws in Australia differ from >> those in the U.S. >> >> Writing 'that' book, for me was fun - perhaps publishing the thing is not? >> >> Look forward to hearing from others. >> >> Regards Kay from Sydney, Australia >> >> ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== >> Threaded archives at >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/COPYRIGHT-L/ >> >> ============================== >> The only real-time collaboration tool that allows you and other family >> members to create a FREE, password-protected family tree. >> http://www.ancestry.com/oft/login.asp > >______________________________