It appears no one on this list seems to have transcribed census data! Let me be more specific here. US Federal Census records in some cases are very hard to read. The handwriting sometimes is atrocius (but understandable for the times). I might interpret a name, date, age, sex, occupation, etc. entry on the census one way and somebody else who reads it might interpret it another way. My interpretation is mine! Tom Thatcher wrote: > > > cannot be copyrighted, my format most certainly is. Why to you see copyright > > notices posted on most every census compilation published (including my own)? > > Wishful thinking? :) No, I doubt that. Violators would find out quickly that the copyright meant exactly what it said. > > The only thing that would be protected might possibly be the "minor > modifications" of your own, assuming they are sufficiently creative and > really your own. (If the modifications were inspired by or copied from > someone else, your out of luck.) My compilations are my very own and as a genealogist for 23 years, I respect the hard work of others (unlike many postings I have seen on the web), and have never, nor ever will, copy someone else's format > > Now if someone takes my work, sets down, hand copies the data, and puts it > > into a similar format, while not morally or ethically the thing to do, it > > would probably be OK; however, it someone reproduces a copy mechanically of > > each page, then puts into a book format with their name on it as the compiler, > > then woe to them! If it's my work they have ripped off, I will take them to > > the highest court. > > > I'm aware of the provision that "protects the creative expression......does > > not protect the labor of the author....." but census data is handwritten; am I > > not being creative by putting the data into printed form? Maybe not! > > > > I don't think there is a difference between hand copying, mechanical > copying, or digital copying. In terms of speed and accuracy, of course, > but not legally. Take for example the USGenWeb Census archives...a literal > transcription of the census page by page. The data is in the exact > arrangement found on the canvas sheet. In my view, there is no real > difference between that file and the microfilm page. > > Think of some of the different ways I could acquire your census data: > I could go to the microfilm and transcribe it myself. > I could make an electronic copy of your web page. > I could print out your web page and give it to my secretary to type. > Or I could read your web site out loud into a dictaphone, and have a > stenographer transcribe the tape, a typist type it out from the steno pad, a > clerk scan it using OCR software, and a web designer format it and post it > on my web site. You're partially right--No problem with your first and last "ways". However, when my census data was posted to my website (it is no longer because of robbers), it clearly had copyright notices posted. If you make an electronic copy of my pages, you have violated copyright. I am referring here to entire censuses, not just one page. I had the entire 1840, 1850, 1860, 1870, census for my county posted and parts of the 1880 and 1900. This obviously involved a number of .HTML pages. > > In each case the result is the same, and the final content of my site will > not differ in any material way from either your site or the original census > page. The method of copying has no relevance. Yes, it will. If you used your first and last methods, you have created the work yourself--no problem. Even if it looks like mine, if you transcribed the data yourself from the microfilm, you have as much right as I do to "copyright" it. > > (Note that I am a firm believer in proper standards of scholarship and > crediting sources, but that's a different matter.) > > Disclaimer: I only know what I have read...I am not a lawyer. My opinion > is based on a lay person's reading and understanding of the law, the > supporting documents put out by the copyright office, and various > commentaries I have read here and elsewhere. I'm not either, but I have compiled census data, and I know my compilation is mine alone (again, anyone is free to go to the microfilm and do the same--the actual federal census records are public domain--my compilation is not). > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > Freepages, that is free web pages > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/press/freepages.html > > ============================== > Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! > http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2

Bennie, You assumed wrong! I have been doing it for 20 years plus (for AIS/AGES). I know what it take to copyright a work or not. The ONLY portion that is copyrighted is something that was NOT in original census data. That is the markers. Exact transcription is NOT copyrightable at all. And the introduction is copyrightable. W. David Samuelsen Bennie White wrote: > > It appears no one on this list seems to have transcribed census data! Let me be more > specific here. US Federal Census records in some cases are very hard to read. The > handwriting sometimes is atrocius (but understandable for the times). I might > interpret a name, date, age, sex, occupation, etc. entry on the census one way and > somebody else who reads it might interpret it another way. My interpretation is > mine! > > Tom Thatcher wrote: > > > > > cannot be copyrighted, my format most certainly is. Why to you see copyright > > > notices posted on most every census compilation published (including my own)? > > > > Wishful thinking? :) > > No, I doubt that. Violators would find out quickly that the copyright meant > exactly what it said. > > > > The only thing that would be protected might possibly be the "minor > > modifications" of your own, assuming they are sufficiently creative and > > really your own. (If the modifications were inspired by or copied from > > someone else, your out of luck.) > > My compilations are my very own and as a genealogist for 23 years, I respect the > hard work of others (unlike many postings I have seen on the web), and have never, > nor ever will, copy someone else's format > > > > Now if someone takes my work, sets down, hand copies the data, and puts it > > > into a similar format, while not morally or ethically the thing to do, it > > > would probably be OK; however, it someone reproduces a copy mechanically of > > > each page, then puts into a book format with their name on it as the compiler, > > > then woe to them! If it's my work they have ripped off, I will take them to > > > the highest court. > > > > > I'm aware of the provision that "protects the creative expression......does > > > not protect the labor of the author....." but census data is handwritten; am I > > > not being creative by putting the data into printed form? Maybe not! > > > > > > > I don't think there is a difference between hand copying, mechanical > > copying, or digital copying. In terms of speed and accuracy, of course, > > but not legally. Take for example the USGenWeb Census archives...a literal > > transcription of the census page by page. The data is in the exact > > arrangement found on the canvas sheet. In my view, there is no real > > difference between that file and the microfilm page. > > > > Think of some of the different ways I could acquire your census data: > > I could go to the microfilm and transcribe it myself. > > I could make an electronic copy of your web page. > > I could print out your web page and give it to my secretary to type. > > Or I could read your web site out loud into a dictaphone, and have a > > stenographer transcribe the tape, a typist type it out from the steno pad, a > > clerk scan it using OCR software, and a web designer format it and post it > > on my web site. > > You're partially right--No problem with your first and last "ways". However, when my > census data was posted to my website (it is no longer because of robbers), it clearly > had copyright notices posted. If you make an electronic copy of my pages, you have violated copyright. I am referring here to entire censuses, not > just one page. I > had the entire 1840, 1850, 1860, 1870, census for my county posted and parts of the > 1880 and 1900. This obviously involved a number of .HTML pages. > > > > In each case the result is the same, and the final content of my site will > > not differ in any material way from either your site or the original census > > page. The method of copying has no relevance. > > Yes, it will. If you used your first and last methods, you have created the > work yourself--no problem. Even if it looks like mine, if you transcribed the data yourself from the microfilm, you have as much right as I do to > "copyright" it. > > > > (Note that I am a firm believer in proper standards of scholarship and > > crediting sources, but that's a different matter.) > > > > Disclaimer: I only know what I have read...I am not a lawyer. My opinion > > is based on a lay person's reading and understanding of the law, the > > supporting documents put out by the copyright office, and various > > commentaries I have read here and elsewhere. > > I'm not either, but I have compiled census data, and I know my compilation is mine > alone (again, anyone is free to go to the microfilm and do the same--the actual > federal census records are public domain--my compilation is not). > > > > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > > Freepages, that is free web pages > > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/press/freepages.html > > > > ============================== > > Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! > > http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > Freepages, that is free web pages > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/press/freepages.html > > ============================== > Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate > your heritage! > http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog