My husband is a lawyer. Copyright laws of course do not apply to a link but they DO apply to the organization of a set of links, to the coding used to display them, to the creative display around such links, etc. I do not wish to discuss Cyndi's site as it is not mine but The Olive Tree information is information that I collect, transcribe, and labour over for hours deciding how it will be displayed on my pages. I own the copyright to that-- to the coding, the page itself, the layout of the page on which the material resides, the order in which the material appears and to the personal research notes and additional materials I have added to the original records. So -- if I transcribe a ship's passenger list -- the names of the passengers are not copyright to me but the way I have set that page up to display the material, the extra information I have added, the organization of my materials, and so on -- ARE. Anyone who takes my work and attempts to pawn it off as their own will be in for quite a surprise if they try to claim that they personally transcribed it. Why? Because, as I noted in my previous emails, those of us who work this hard to assist the genealogical community have methods in place to prove that a page in its entirety was lifted. Lorine Date forwarded: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:39:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Charlotte ~" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: copyright question on sharing info? Date sent: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 12:38:55 PDT To: [email protected] Forwarded by: [email protected] > I'm a lawyer and I handle copyright cases.... > > And yes, someone could do exactly what you have said...Charlotte > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Lorine McGinnis Schulze" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected], "Charlotte ~" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: copyright question on sharing info? > Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:47:20 -0400 > > You are misinformed and I suggest you check the copyright laws > much more carefully. > > Don't be misled by public opinion -- it is the law that counts, not > how people (mis)interpret it. > > My pages, Cyndi's pages, and all the other pages on the internet > are copyright protected. > > By your (mis)interpretation below, anyone could purchase the > cemetery recordings that are for sale by various Genealogical > Societies, copy them and republish them under their name. > > However -- that is a violation of copyright law. Even though the info on > a gravestone is obviously public domain, the organization or person who > publishes that info has copyright to their publication. > > Others may indeed walk the cemeteries for themselves, > labouriously writing down all the data, and publishing it *but* if they > dare to take the previously published work (whether online or off) they > are in violation of copyright. > > Lorine > > > > Date forwarded: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:49:53 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Charlotte ~" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: copyright question on sharing info? > Date sent: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 09:49:20 PDT > To: [email protected] > Forwarded by: [email protected] > > > Well, no offense to Cindy...I really enjoy her site...but that is > contrary > to the current state of the law.... > > Links are not > copyrightable...only original material is > copyrightable....links are > very very public... > > Public documents cannot be copyrighted...you > cannot copyright that which > is not copyrightable in the first > place...your documents you refer to are > a database and congress has not > passed legislation to include them in the > copyright law yet....and most > predict that it will not pass... > > Generally what happens in the > genealogy community, you either put an OK to > download on the page or > the one who wants the information requests that > they be allowed to > download the information.... > > The other problem with making a link a > copyright is that you've taken the > information for the link from the > other site...so to try and copyright a > link is to try and copyright > someone else's information or site > address...not possible...and > specifically not covered under > copyright...link addresses are public > info... > > The design of her pages she can copyright...if it is an > original design > etc....source code is programing, did she write a > program?...html code > doesn't amount to much...but then I use > FrontPage98 for my web > pages...which is Microsoft's to begin with... > > > Getting a copyright in the Copyright office, only means you have the > right > to sue...doesn't mean you will win and believe me copyright > lawsuits run > about $100,000.00 from start to trial... > > Charlotte > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Lorine McGinnis Schulze" > <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: > copyright question on sharing info? > Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 06:49:17 > -0400 > > No she is not correct. > > Having studied several online sites > regarding copyright laws, I find > Cyndi's page about Copyright Issues > at > > http://www.CyndisList.com/copyrite.htm > > > addresses > succintly this problem of source codes, descriptive text > and page > layout and design. > > Cyndi's article tells us that while URLs > themselves are not > copyright, a link is. A link is defined as the URL, > the html code, > and any descriptive text. > > She also states: > > " > Source code for a web page is copyright protected. Just because > you > CAN copy it, doesn't mean that you SHOULD copy it. Doing > so would > constitute a copyright violation. " [Source: > > http://www.CyndisList.com/copyrite.htm] > > Cyndi herself has registered > her html source code (among other > things) with the US Copyright Office > (as stated on her webpage) > > I have defended Olive Tree Genealogy's > primary source documents > online against those who feel they can simply > take what I spent > hours creating. That is a copyright violation. > > > Lorine > > > > Date forwarded: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:23:36 -0700 (PDT) > > From: "Charlotte ~" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: > copyright question on sharing info? > Date sent: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 > 15:23:01 PDT > To: [email protected] > Forwarded by: > [email protected] > > > Yes, you are correct...any editorial > notes by the original author might > > be > > off limits...depends on > how public they are and when they were > > added...Congress is trying to > pass a database bill....but they can't > seem > to get it > accepted...West Publishing just lost a big case in 1998, > I > believe, > they are the official reporter for most court opinons...but > the > > court said they didn't have a copyright on the court opinons, so > > anyone > could scan them and put them on the net...but they couldn't scan > > any of > the headings i.e. summaries or editorial notes that West had > > added to the > original opinion.... > > What you'll find in most > > genealogical groups is a standard to ask the > poster if you can use > > their info...if like most of us we want to find our > ancestors we don't > > mind...just don't sell the stuff ...<g>... > > Charlotte > > > ----Original > Message Follows---- > From: [email protected] > To: > > [email protected] > Subject: copyright question on sharing info? > > > Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:57:54 EDT > > Hi. I just joined this list > (I've > been here a few other times though), > and I'm wanting to find > out if I > understand the copyright law concerning > online material > that is public > domain info. I work in the reference > section of a > library and have > read quite a few books on it, but with such > > technical language, it's > hard to comprehend. Basically, this is my > > understanding...using an > example: > > I have a webpage on certain > surnames and I go to a webpage > where I find > info on those surnames I > don't already have. It's public > info, like > census, marriage list, > cemetery list, wills, etc. I > understand it that I > can copy those > facts and paste them onto my > webpage in my own format.... > > > Basically, that doesn't come across > exactly right, but from my > > understanding, > a person cannot copy the > facts and info from public > records, only the > format, and they cannot > prohibit someone from > using the info on their > page > > (when it is public info like > genealogy documents usually are). Am I > right > > about this, or not? > Thanks for the input! > > > > Erin Bradford > > [email protected] > > > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~kshai (The Genealogy Depository) > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > > Get > Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > > > > > > Lorine McGinnis Schulze > [email protected] > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > * The Olive Tree Genealogy > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ote/ > * The Canadian Military Heritage Project > http://www.rootsweb.com/~canmil/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get > Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > > > > Lorine McGinnis Schulze > [email protected] > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > * The Olive Tree Genealogy http://www.rootsweb.com/~ote/ > * The Canadian Military Heritage Project http://www.rootsweb.com/~canmil/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > Lorine McGinnis Schulze [email protected] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * The Olive Tree Genealogy http://www.rootsweb.com/~ote/ * The Canadian Military Heritage Project http://www.rootsweb.com/~canmil/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~