Sara wrote: >Thanks. I was beginning to feel incredibly stupid. Copyright discussions do that to everyone, don't worry. There are so many different subtle concepts and emotions flying, it's hard to really understand what's going on most of the time. As for Rene's comments, namely: "You cannot freely give to others using their transcription or sell to others" and "Yes some of the images are of census items, but they have also transcribed those images," others have pointed out that U.S. Copyright Law affords no protection to facts, nor sweat of the brow, or "oh, that took so much time and money" arguments. Transcripts, if they faithfully represent public domain documents, are themselves in the public domain. No one can own them. Rene' also wrote: "Would you like others to take your information that you worked hard to find and transcribe, and sell it or give it to whoever?" Indeed, this is where the emotions and sense of justice or reward come in. Of course, we want to be properly rewarded for our efforts. However, we should go into a project to transcribe public domain documents with the desire for everyone's greater good in mind, since only the commentary and creatively written additions to that transcription will have copyright protection. Really, this is best for everyone in the genealogical community. Wouldn't we rather have all of this information available for free for those who need it, rather than needing big companies with lots of money as gatekeepers? Best, James

That to which HeritageQuest holds the rights is not the census page or information thereon. The page and its information is in the public domain for several reasons. What HeritageQuest has done (or its agents) is to make a digital image of a census page and add to it with some page identification information and that is the creation to which they hold the rights. If you think about it, HeritageQuest's digital images came not from photographs of the original pages (I think I am right on this) but from scan of microfilm (probably masters?).You can look at their images and take information from it and share it. You can make copies of their online digital image for personal use. Look at it like this. Suppose there was a tombstone with name and birth and death dates. That is public information. If you take a picture of that tombstone, you cannot copyright the tombstone or the information. However, you could take a photograph of the tombstone and that creation would be protected by copyright when you created it. However, someone else could come along and take a picture of the tombstone and do whatever they like with it. If they took a picture of your picture of the tombstone and distributed or reproduced it for distribution to other (thus depriving you of the right to do so or to reap any rewards for doing so), they would be in violation of your copyright. There are technology solutions. Find a copy of the microfilm of that census, go to the page on a reader and print a copy and then scan it into a digital image. An area FHC here in East Texas has a computer which can take a digital image from a frame on a roll of microfilm. If you go the old technology film method, you could also use a digital camera to photograph either the reader "screen" or the paper photocopy. Again, the real point is that they have the right to their digital image creation and embellishment but you could go to the source and make your own digital image to which you would hold copyright as its creator.) Deason ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Capobianco" <James_Capobianco@emerson.edu> To: <COPYRIGHT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 3:11 PM Subject: [COPYRIGHT] transcribing and copyright protection (was HeritageQuest Images) > Sara wrote: >>Thanks. I was beginning to feel incredibly stupid. > > Copyright discussions do that to everyone, don't worry. There are so > many different subtle concepts and emotions flying, it's hard to really > understand what's going on most of the time. > > As for Rene's comments, namely: "You cannot freely give to others using > their transcription or sell to others" and "Yes some of the images are > of census items, but they have also transcribed those images," others > have pointed out that U.S. Copyright Law affords no protection to facts, > nor sweat of the brow, or "oh, that took so much time and money" > arguments. Transcripts, if they faithfully represent public domain > documents, are themselves in the public domain. No one can own them. > > Rene' also wrote: "Would you like others to take your information that > you worked hard to find and transcribe, and sell it or give it to > whoever?" > Indeed, this is where the emotions and sense of justice or > reward come in. Of course, we want to be properly rewarded for our > efforts. However, we should go into a project to transcribe public > domain documents with the desire for everyone's greater good in mind, > since only the commentary and creatively written additions to that > transcription will have copyright protection. Really, this is best for > everyone in the genealogical community. Wouldn't we rather have all of > this information available for free for those who need it, rather than > needing big companies with lots of money as gatekeepers? > > Best, > > James > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:COPYRIGHT-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or > mailto:COPYRIGHT-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > â?" Contact COPYRIGHT-admin@rootsweb.com for list related problems. For > the COPYRIGHT-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/copyright. > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > >