In regards to choosing the size of the font... so if "borrowing folks" don't loose the copyright in case the make it smaller,.. That is why I choose a font that is proportionate size to the photos and while maybe not so "subtle" it does not disappear when made smaller... In my case, if they make it smaller than to read the copyright they will also not be able to read the inscription on the tombstone in the photos and as to Cliff's java script to prohibit copy of a photo... 1. I use Mozilla browser and I have all javascript blocked, unless I hit and "allow" in an extension. so I was able to copy all his photos and then open Irfanview and hit "CTRL-V and that paste his pics in with no problem. 2. for folks who do not have that... all they have to do is hold down the shift key and hit the "print Screen" key on their keyboard... open Irfanview and then again hit "CTRL-V" and it pastes the whole page as seen on their screen. from there you drag your curser over the photo itself, to up to "edit" on Irfanview and hit "crop" and viola you have any photo that you can see on any webpage.... Here is page with links to some tombstone photos which I posted on the net which were submitted to me: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohwyand2/w/st_mary_carey_a.htm You will see I tried to choose a font that was close to the size of the letters in the tombstone inscription. Kristina Kuhn Krumm Columbus, Ohio Webmaster for Wyandot County, Ohio genealogy

> I believe it would be appropriate to discuss methods of protecting > photos on this mailing list, so I welcome comments. Here is the URL for > the webpage I made. > > http://grandpacliff.com/Animals/Albinos-TEST.htm > > Cliff Lamere A javascript like that will stop the majority of people, but it's still easy to get around. All you have to do is choose "View source" from the IE menu bar and find the photos' urls in the source. Then you paste the url in the address bar, hit "enter" and there's the photo in right-clickable/save-able form. For example, here's the direct link to the lovebird: http://grandpacliff.com/Animals/Img-Animals/Img-Albinos/albino-lovebird-b.jpg It's not possible to completely block a knowledgeable user. They can always go to the browser's cache file while the window's open and move the files to another directory... Larry

Appreciate it. John -----Original Message----- From: Doyle Chambers [mailto:dwchambers@otelco.net] Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 4:56 PM To: COPYRIGHT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [COPYRIGHT] Protecting copyrighted photos At 04:03 PM 1/27/2006 -0600, you wrote: > >Somehow I eliminated the link to the Infanview site. Can someone resent it >please? Thanks, John <snip> John, The url is http://www.irfanview.com/ Doyle ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx

Cliff, Your postings of "Test" are great and very well done. As a long time HTML writer and web host, I opened your source code and copied the java code applet. It's almost indentical to one I have used to disable the right click for copying some photos. Most of my photos are historical and free for copying by anyone, but some I have taken myself are reserved for my family albums. I like your use and text much better, and will include an email in the newer ones. Thanks, Doyle Chambers At 04:25 PM 1/27/2006 -0500, you wrote: > >The Irfanview discussion has been useful to me. I downloaded the >program, but would prefer the availability of a smaller font. I'd like >to have my name on photos, but have it be more subtle. I see nothing >wrong with this discussion on this mailing list. It expands our >knowledge of how to protect our copyrights. To that end, I'd like to >mention a couple of other things that I have seen in the past few days >since the original question was asked. > >A person who "borrows" a photo might make the photo considerably smaller >before displaying it again. At the smaller size, it may be impossible >to read your name. That is a problem, of course. A user may even cut >off the copyright notice before reposting the photo. So, perhaps it is >best to prevent another person from copying the photo altogether. > >On a webpage, if you right click on an image such as a photo, normally a >box pops up that will allow the photo to be copied to your computer. I >have recently noticed two websites that prevented this from happening. > >1) On one website, the box would not appear for any photo on the site. >I believe I only got a cirle with a slash through it (meaning something >like "You can't do this."). At times, I didn't even get that. > >2) On another site, a different box appeared that said that you >couldn't copy the photo. > >I didn't investigate the first site, but I found the second site today >and decided to find out how it worked. I looked at the codes and copied >a JavaScript from it into a webpage I made for interested members of >this list to view (revised from one I already had). I didn't like the >warning that the script gave, so I rewrote it to say the following: > >"This photo is protected by United States and international copyright >laws. Please contact the copyright holder if you would like permission >to use it." > >An email address should be provided so that a person can do that. > >I learned that the full statement had to be on a single line of the >script or it wouldn't work, although it appears on two lines as a popup >message. I placed the message right after the </head> code. > >For this technique to work, a person would have to have access to the >html coding of a webpage so that the script could be added. By that I >mean that you must be a person who knows how to makes webpages and can >view and change the codes before puting the webpage online. If your >computer knowledge is limited, and you normally send photos to a website >where the host's software makes all of the codes for you, you probably >can't use this method. I believe you would have to upload the completed >webpage yourself, including all of the html coding, but the host might >be able to help you with this. > >So, the technology exists to protect photos from most being copied. If >you can see the photo on your computer, however, there is already a copy >on your computer (somewhere in the temporary cache). It's name has been >changed to a number, I believe. A computer savvy person can find the >photo, but I don't remember how to do that. Photos that are protected >against copying probably won't be copied from the cache very often. >There are probably also other means of getting around the script, but >the people trying to use a photo illegally probably won't know how to do >that. > >I believe it would be appropriate to discuss methods of protecting >photos on this mailing list, so I welcome comments. Here is the URL for >the webpage I made. > >http://grandpacliff.com/Animals/Albinos-TEST.htm > >Cliff Lamere > > > > >==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== >RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. Think to keep your Anti-Virus up-to-date! > >============================== >View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find >marriage announcements and more. Learn more: >http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >

At 04:03 PM 1/27/2006 -0600, you wrote: > >Somehow I eliminated the link to the Infanview site. Can someone resent it >please? Thanks, John <snip> John, The url is http://www.irfanview.com/ Doyle

The Irfanview discussion has been useful to me. I downloaded the program, but would prefer the availability of a smaller font. I'd like to have my name on photos, but have it be more subtle. I see nothing wrong with this discussion on this mailing list. It expands our knowledge of how to protect our copyrights. To that end, I'd like to mention a couple of other things that I have seen in the past few days since the original question was asked. A person who "borrows" a photo might make the photo considerably smaller before displaying it again. At the smaller size, it may be impossible to read your name. That is a problem, of course. A user may even cut off the copyright notice before reposting the photo. So, perhaps it is best to prevent another person from copying the photo altogether. On a webpage, if you right click on an image such as a photo, normally a box pops up that will allow the photo to be copied to your computer. I have recently noticed two websites that prevented this from happening. 1) On one website, the box would not appear for any photo on the site. I believe I only got a cirle with a slash through it (meaning something like "You can't do this."). At times, I didn't even get that. 2) On another site, a different box appeared that said that you couldn't copy the photo. I didn't investigate the first site, but I found the second site today and decided to find out how it worked. I looked at the codes and copied a JavaScript from it into a webpage I made for interested members of this list to view (revised from one I already had). I didn't like the warning that the script gave, so I rewrote it to say the following: "This photo is protected by United States and international copyright laws. Please contact the copyright holder if you would like permission to use it." An email address should be provided so that a person can do that. I learned that the full statement had to be on a single line of the script or it wouldn't work, although it appears on two lines as a popup message. I placed the message right after the </head> code. For this technique to work, a person would have to have access to the html coding of a webpage so that the script could be added. By that I mean that you must be a person who knows how to makes webpages and can view and change the codes before puting the webpage online. If your computer knowledge is limited, and you normally send photos to a website where the host's software makes all of the codes for you, you probably can't use this method. I believe you would have to upload the completed webpage yourself, including all of the html coding, but the host might be able to help you with this. So, the technology exists to protect photos from most being copied. If you can see the photo on your computer, however, there is already a copy on your computer (somewhere in the temporary cache). It's name has been changed to a number, I believe. A computer savvy person can find the photo, but I don't remember how to do that. Photos that are protected against copying probably won't be copied from the cache very often. There are probably also other means of getting around the script, but the people trying to use a photo illegally probably won't know how to do that. I believe it would be appropriate to discuss methods of protecting photos on this mailing list, so I welcome comments. Here is the URL for the webpage I made. http://grandpacliff.com/Animals/Albinos-TEST.htm Cliff Lamere

Somehow I eliminated the link to the Infanview site. Can someone resent it please? Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Lamere [mailto:clifflamere@nycap.rr.com] Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 3:25 PM To: COPYRIGHT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [COPYRIGHT] Protecting copyrighted photos The Irfanview discussion has been useful to me. I downloaded the program, but would prefer the availability of a smaller font. I'd like to have my name on photos, but have it be more subtle. I see nothing wrong with this discussion on this mailing list. It expands our knowledge of how to protect our copyrights. To that end, I'd like to mention a couple of other things that I have seen in the past few days since the original question was asked. A person who "borrows" a photo might make the photo considerably smaller before displaying it again. At the smaller size, it may be impossible to read your name. That is a problem, of course. A user may even cut off the copyright notice before reposting the photo. So, perhaps it is best to prevent another person from copying the photo altogether. On a webpage, if you right click on an image such as a photo, normally a box pops up that will allow the photo to be copied to your computer. I have recently noticed two websites that prevented this from happening. 1) On one website, the box would not appear for any photo on the site. I believe I only got a cirle with a slash through it (meaning something like "You can't do this."). At times, I didn't even get that. 2) On another site, a different box appeared that said that you couldn't copy the photo. I didn't investigate the first site, but I found the second site today and decided to find out how it worked. I looked at the codes and copied a JavaScript from it into a webpage I made for interested members of this list to view (revised from one I already had). I didn't like the warning that the script gave, so I rewrote it to say the following: "This photo is protected by United States and international copyright laws. Please contact the copyright holder if you would like permission to use it." An email address should be provided so that a person can do that. I learned that the full statement had to be on a single line of the script or it wouldn't work, although it appears on two lines as a popup message. I placed the message right after the </head> code. For this technique to work, a person would have to have access to the html coding of a webpage so that the script could be added. By that I mean that you must be a person who knows how to makes webpages and can view and change the codes before puting the webpage online. If your computer knowledge is limited, and you normally send photos to a website where the host's software makes all of the codes for you, you probably can't use this method. I believe you would have to upload the completed webpage yourself, including all of the html coding, but the host might be able to help you with this. So, the technology exists to protect photos from most being copied. If you can see the photo on your computer, however, there is already a copy on your computer (somewhere in the temporary cache). It's name has been changed to a number, I believe. A computer savvy person can find the photo, but I don't remember how to do that. Photos that are protected against copying probably won't be copied from the cache very often. There are probably also other means of getting around the script, but the people trying to use a photo illegally probably won't know how to do that. I believe it would be appropriate to discuss methods of protecting photos on this mailing list, so I welcome comments. Here is the URL for the webpage I made. http://grandpacliff.com/Animals/Albinos-TEST.htm Cliff Lamere ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. Think to keep your Anti-Virus up-to-date! ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Hello, I am Jackie and am new to the list. I have not had a chance to review the archives yet, so am coming into this mid stream so to speak and find it verrrry interesting.. This is the type of information I did not know I was looking for but once I read the post, I knew I needed to have this information. I will go back to the archives to read the original posts, so I know where everyone is coming from on this, but if possible, please do not go off list with this discussion. Thank you in advance for all the knowledge I will pick up here! Jackie Wilson -- Of all the things that I have lost, what I miss the most is my mind. -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Kristina Kuhn Krumm" <kkuhn@columbus.rr.com> > > > > From: Bcinders686@aol.com > [snip] > >From what you are saying, this software of a "free" download seems to be > exactly what we need to get posting to the other lists - to share and spread > our wealth of searches and travels! My wife is going to take over this area, > but she is baffled about all the options offered at the irfanview site. > Which > way to go and which 'option' should we click on to 'download'? Do they all > have the 'copyright' feature to overlay on the photos? How do we find that, > to > use it? > ******************************** > Reply: Just download the program and the plug-ins. > from any of the sites they offer to do the download. > They have many servers that are doing the sending of the files, I just go > with the one > who's location is nearest to me. > ********************************************** > From: Bcinders686@aol.com > Also, just to be sure we are understanding, or perhaps a question, is that > we looked at the copyright symbol on your excellent examples, from your own > experience, and are we correctly understanding that this infranview is used > and > what puts it (the symbol and then we type our name, somehow?) directly onto > the photos? > [snip] > *************************************************** > Reply: using Irfanview to open a photo you want to work on. > now use your curser to click on the photo, and hold down on left click to > drag and create a box where > you want to inject your text. > Let go of left mouse button and you will see where the box is > (if you do not like it.. then do it over, practice makes perfect!) > > Now go up to "edit" and down to "insert text into selection" > This will open a window with many options. > first: click on the "append copyright" button, and it will put the "C" > thingy in the text box for you. > second: just after the copyright symbol, left click in the text box, to get > your cursor working there and type in your name and a date. > third: click on "choose font" button to open a window of choices for that. > As a rule I click on the color and choose "white" as that shows up the best > on photos, and then the size font depends on resolution of the photo.. but I > usually use a 14 or 20 point font. > now click on OK and look at the results. > If you do not like how it is, just click on Edit and "undo" and start over. > You will notice it saves whatever text you entered the first time, when the > text window opens again, so you don't have to retype all that > all settings are saved! > so for the next billion photos... you just make your box (remember to try to > choose a dark place in the photo, so your text shows up nice) > and then hit "CTRL -T" as a short cut... (this inserts your text) > and "CTRL -S" to save it (another short cut) name the file and you are ready > for the next pic. > Just hit your spacebar at this point, to open the next photo in that same > folder. > > Email me privately if you have anymore questions... > I do not know if I should take up anymore space here on the mailing list. > > Good Luck! > -Kristina Kuhn Krumm > > > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus that > is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb mailing > list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go please to: > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. Think to keep your Anti-Virus > up-to-date! > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

From: Bcinders686@aol.com [snip] From what you are saying, this software of a "free" download seems to be exactly what we need to get posting to the other lists - to share and spread our wealth of searches and travels! My wife is going to take over this area, but she is baffled about all the options offered at the irfanview site. Which way to go and which 'option' should we click on to 'download'? Do they all have the 'copyright' feature to overlay on the photos? How do we find that, to use it? ******************************** Reply: Just download the program and the plug-ins. from any of the sites they offer to do the download. They have many servers that are doing the sending of the files, I just go with the one who's location is nearest to me. ********************************************** From: Bcinders686@aol.com Also, just to be sure we are understanding, or perhaps a question, is that we looked at the copyright symbol on your excellent examples, from your own experience, and are we correctly understanding that this infranview is used and what puts it (the symbol and then we type our name, somehow?) directly onto the photos? [snip] *************************************************** Reply: using Irfanview to open a photo you want to work on. now use your curser to click on the photo, and hold down on left click to drag and create a box where you want to inject your text. Let go of left mouse button and you will see where the box is (if you do not like it.. then do it over, practice makes perfect!) Now go up to "edit" and down to "insert text into selection" This will open a window with many options. first: click on the "append copyright" button, and it will put the "C" thingy in the text box for you. second: just after the copyright symbol, left click in the text box, to get your cursor working there and type in your name and a date. third: click on "choose font" button to open a window of choices for that. As a rule I click on the color and choose "white" as that shows up the best on photos, and then the size font depends on resolution of the photo.. but I usually use a 14 or 20 point font. now click on OK and look at the results. If you do not like how it is, just click on Edit and "undo" and start over. You will notice it saves whatever text you entered the first time, when the text window opens again, so you don't have to retype all that all settings are saved! so for the next billion photos... you just make your box (remember to try to choose a dark place in the photo, so your text shows up nice) and then hit "CTRL -T" as a short cut... (this inserts your text) and "CTRL -S" to save it (another short cut) name the file and you are ready for the next pic. Just hit your spacebar at this point, to open the next photo in that same folder. Email me privately if you have anymore questions... I do not know if I should take up anymore space here on the mailing list. Good Luck! -Kristina Kuhn Krumm

On Jan 20, I wrote: "Unpublished works originating in 1885 (examples would be manuscripts and photos) went into the public domain in 2006." That translates to a 120 year copyright protection from the year of creation. Under the current laws, the 120 year term I was talking about is for unpublished anonymous works and unpublished works written under a pseudonym (unless the real name of the author is on file with the U.S. Copyright Office). For photos, we are not likely to know the name of the photographer, so the 120 year term should apply. However, for unpublished manuscripts written by a single author, the copyright term is the life of the author plus 70 years. BUT, if we can't determine the year of death of the author of an unpublished manuscript, as would often be the case, I believe the 120 year period applies. Of course, if we don't know when the author died, and there is no year shown in an unpublished work, we have just as much difficulty in determining 120 years from the year of creation. Cliff

In a message dated 1/15/2006 1:47:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, JYoung6180@aol.com writes: "Although facts cannot be copyrighted, I would appreciate credit for my research if you share it with others." I don't know whether it does any good, but it makes me feel better, LOL! Sara Binkley Tarpley good idea! and you made us feel better, too! thanks for the input! -Bruce

In a message dated 1/15/2006 12:26:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pasher@ee.net writes: To add just a bit to Joan's answer, plagiarism *is* a legal issue, but like copyright infringement, plagiarism involves claiming the ideas or words of another as your own. Straightforward transcriptions are simply "copies". The transcriber can not copyright a copy of someone else's work, and it is not illegal or unethical for someone else to copy your copy of public domain material. However, a serious researcher will always acknowledge the original transcriber. First, it is courteous to acknowledge the time, money, and/or effort expended. But for purposes of scholarship, a competent researcher recognizes that most transcriptions contain errors. Old handwriting may be difficult to read. Newspaper type setting may result in a lower case RN (rn) looking like M (m). Typos are more frequent than we would like to admint. [ed. note: I didn't mistype "admit" on purpose, but since I did, I left it as a perfect example of how errors can creep in <g>). Sometimes, our brains or fingers simply short-circuit and type 1981 instead of 1781. Assert your copyright for the photographs you took, but I'm afraid expecting credit for the rest will be largely wishful thinking. Pat Thank you, Pat, for these fine words. You have been so helpful. We understand!

In a message dated 1/15/2006 5:31:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kkuhn@columbus.rr.com writes: http://www.irfanview.com/ We had a family emergency and have been away. We were encouraged and amazed at the help offered. I read your replies several times and we have both studied them closely. All of you have been so helpful with your comments and suggestions. We understand better some things, while know how to proceed in other area. From what you are saying, this software of a "free" download seems to be exactly what we need to get posting to the other lists - to share and spread our wealth of searches and travels! My wife is going to take over this area, but she is baffled about all the options offered at the irfanview site. Which way to go and which 'option' should we click on to 'download'? Do they all have the 'copyright' feature to overlay on the photos? How do we find that, to use it? Also, just to be sure we are understanding, or perhaps a question, is that we looked at the copyright symbol on your excellent examples, from your own experience, and are we correctly understanding that this infranview is used and what puts it (the symbol and then we type our name, somehow?) directly onto the photos? (Then looks like we can go and post them and freely distribute, feeling some protection and credit is acknowledged. Thinking that there are probably a lot of Rootsweb lists or someplace, geographically, where these would "fit".) The reason I ask is they we did not see anything about "copyright" in reading about the infanview features or maybe we overlooked it, did not understand, or ? as we are rather new to this sort of thing, to say the least. Thank you so much for the wisdom of your experience, Cynthia and others who helped us to get a good perspective, too. Sincerely, Bruce

You need to re-read it. This apply only to those whose printed copyrights ALREADY IN EFFECT, not yet lapsed by 1978 when the ratification of Berne Treaty went into effect as well as all new ones thereafters. If the copyright notice was printed in old books and the periods expire BEFORE 1978 and NOT renewed, they go into public domain. David Samuelsen Mary K. Mannix wrote: > "I can tell that these manuscripts were just printed up on his > own--which would make it in the public domain" > > Please keep in mind that an item does not have to be formerly > "published" to have copyright. Please take a look at > > http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/training/Hirtle_Public_Domain.htm > > which is a site that archivists consult and in maintained by one of > the leaders in our field. > > Mary Mannix > > -- > Mary K. Mannix > Maryland Room Manager > C. Burr Artz Public Library > Frederick County Public Libraries > Frederick, MD > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > >

"I can tell that these manuscripts were just printed up on his own--which would make it in the public domain" Please keep in mind that an item does not have to be formerly "published" to have copyright. Please take a look at http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/training/Hirtle_Public_Domain.htm which is a site that archivists consult and in maintained by one of the leaders in our field. Mary Mannix -- Mary K. Mannix Maryland Room Manager C. Burr Artz Public Library Frederick County Public Libraries Frederick, MD

Thank you so much David! If the FHL has a copy of something like that, does this mean its usually in the Public Domain? W David Samuelsen <dsam@sampubco.com> wrote: FHL has 15 of them. By the way Milo Custer was born in 1880. Every one of them microfilmed at various times, majority before 1923. No copyright mentioned even for those later publications, too. David Samuelsen Trina Huynh wrote: > Hi Cliff > Yes they were typed and has his handwritten additional notes on some of the papers. > Here's what it states at the end of one of the sections: " ALL OF THE ABOVE WERE ISSUED IN SMALL EDITIONS, AND ARE NOW OUT OF PRINT EXCEPT THOSE NOTED THUS * OF WHICH THE AUTHOR HAS A FEW COPIES LEFT THAT ARE FOR SALE OR EXCHANGE." > > Compiled and Printed by Milo Custer, Bloomington, Illinois. > (I did some research & found that Milo Custer authored about 32 or more short genealogies in which he had compiled and printed himself and then distributed to various libraries etc...) > > Cliff Lamere wrote: > Trina, > > "I can tell that these manuscripts were just printed up on his > own--which would make it in the public domain" > > If they were never published, then you can't say that for sure. He > could have typed a single copy of each for himself, or he might have > printed several copies of each for distribution. Do you think they were > ever sold? > > "what if some publishing company found these same papers and decided to > publish them later on like say 1943 (e.g.)." > > If they were not actually published, the author had a common law > copyright which hasn't run out yet. In that case, the manuscript could > only have been published in 1943 with permission. But, if the books > were really published in 1924 and 1925, and without a copyright notice, > then they immediately went into the public domain. Anybody could > republish the entire work, but they would not get a new copyright on the > previous work (except possibly to minor things like a new format and > anything new added to the book like a new introduction). Facts can > never be copyrighted, nor can public domain material. Only new, > creative effort can earn a copyright. > > "Can someone actually buy the ownership to copyright this and say "hey I > own this now!" > > A copyright to a written work can be bought from the copyright owner, > but it has to be in writing. Many descendants might be the copyright > owners today if the author is deceased. > > When you say it looks like he printed them on his own, do you mean that > they were typed? If so, are they originals or carbon copies? I'm just > trying to figure out if they were published or not. Where or how you > got the books might help you or someone else make such a decision. > > Cliff > > > Trina Huynh wrote: > > >>Wow---this is very complicated. >>I can tell that these manuscripts were just printed up on his own--which would make it in the public domain...however what if some publishing company found these same papers and decided to publish them later on like say 1943 (e.g.). Can someone actually buy the ownership to copyright this and say "hey I own this now!" >>thanks for your help. >> >> >> >> > > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. Think to keep your Anti-Virus up-to-date! ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos

Not always, more recent books have permissions from copyright holders to allow the FHL to microfilm / microfiche them. In case of Milo Custer, it's lapsed copyrights (not renewed before 1978.) W. David Samuelsen Trina Huynh wrote: > Thank you so much David! > If the FHL has a copy of something like that, does this mean its usually in the Public Domain? > > W David Samuelsen <dsam@sampubco.com> wrote: > FHL has 15 of them. By the way Milo Custer was born in 1880. > > Every one of them microfilmed at various times, majority before 1923. No > copyright mentioned even for those later publications, too. > > David Samuelsen > > Trina Huynh wrote: > >>Hi Cliff >>Yes they were typed and has his handwritten additional notes on some of the papers. >>Here's what it states at the end of one of the sections: " ALL OF THE ABOVE WERE ISSUED IN SMALL EDITIONS, AND ARE NOW OUT OF PRINT EXCEPT THOSE NOTED THUS * OF WHICH THE AUTHOR HAS A FEW COPIES LEFT THAT ARE FOR SALE OR EXCHANGE." >> >>Compiled and Printed by Milo Custer, Bloomington, Illinois. >>(I did some research & found that Milo Custer authored about 32 or more short genealogies in which he had compiled and printed himself and then distributed to various libraries etc...) >> >>Cliff Lamere wrote: >>Trina, >> >>"I can tell that these manuscripts were just printed up on his >>own--which would make it in the public domain" >> >>If they were never published, then you can't say that for sure. He >>could have typed a single copy of each for himself, or he might have >>printed several copies of each for distribution. Do you think they were >>ever sold? >> >>"what if some publishing company found these same papers and decided to >>publish them later on like say 1943 (e.g.)." >> >>If they were not actually published, the author had a common law >>copyright which hasn't run out yet. In that case, the manuscript could >>only have been published in 1943 with permission. But, if the books >>were really published in 1924 and 1925, and without a copyright notice, >>then they immediately went into the public domain. Anybody could >>republish the entire work, but they would not get a new copyright on the >>previous work (except possibly to minor things like a new format and >>anything new added to the book like a new introduction). Facts can >>never be copyrighted, nor can public domain material. Only new, >>creative effort can earn a copyright. >> >>"Can someone actually buy the ownership to copyright this and say "hey I >>own this now!" >> >>A copyright to a written work can be bought from the copyright owner, >>but it has to be in writing. Many descendants might be the copyright >>owners today if the author is deceased. >> >>When you say it looks like he printed them on his own, do you mean that >>they were typed? If so, are they originals or carbon copies? I'm just >>trying to figure out if they were published or not. Where or how you >>got the books might help you or someone else make such a decision. >> >>Cliff >> >> >>Trina Huynh wrote: >> >> >> >>>Wow---this is very complicated. >>>I can tell that these manuscripts were just printed up on his own--which would make it in the public domain...however what if some publishing company found these same papers and decided to publish them later on like say 1943 (e.g.). Can someone actually buy the ownership to copyright this and say "hey I own this now!" >>>thanks for your help. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== >>LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) >> >>============================== >>Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >>last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> >> >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos >> >> >>==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== >>LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) >> >>============================== >>Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >>last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> >> >> > > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. Think to keep your Anti-Virus up-to-date! > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > >

Trina, Since all parts were previously published, most or all were likely published before 1923. We don't know if they were originally published without a copyright notice, but the author would almost certainly re-asserted his copyright if he had copyrighted them in the first place. I have seen a lot of cemetery records from that and later periods that lacked a copyright notice. In fact, not one of them had a copyright notice. I would feel safe that the genealogies were in the public domain. If I wanted to put them online or republish them, I would. You will have to make your own decision. Cliff ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Trina Huynh wrote: >Hi Cliff > Yes they were typed and has his handwritten additional notes on some of the papers. > Here's what it states at the end of one of the sections: " ALL OF THE ABOVE WERE ISSUED IN SMALL EDITIONS, AND ARE NOW OUT OF PRINT EXCEPT THOSE NOTED THUS * OF WHICH THE AUTHOR HAS A FEW COPIES LEFT THAT ARE FOR SALE OR EXCHANGE." > > Compiled and Printed by Milo Custer, Bloomington, Illinois. > (I did some research & found that Milo Custer authored about 32 or more short genealogies in which he had compiled and printed himself and then distributed to various libraries etc...) > > >

Hi Cliff Yes they were typed and has his handwritten additional notes on some of the papers. Here's what it states at the end of one of the sections: " ALL OF THE ABOVE WERE ISSUED IN SMALL EDITIONS, AND ARE NOW OUT OF PRINT EXCEPT THOSE NOTED THUS * OF WHICH THE AUTHOR HAS A FEW COPIES LEFT THAT ARE FOR SALE OR EXCHANGE." Compiled and Printed by Milo Custer, Bloomington, Illinois. (I did some research & found that Milo Custer authored about 32 or more short genealogies in which he had compiled and printed himself and then distributed to various libraries etc...) Cliff Lamere <clifflamere@nycap.rr.com> wrote: Trina, "I can tell that these manuscripts were just printed up on his own--which would make it in the public domain" If they were never published, then you can't say that for sure. He could have typed a single copy of each for himself, or he might have printed several copies of each for distribution. Do you think they were ever sold? "what if some publishing company found these same papers and decided to publish them later on like say 1943 (e.g.)." If they were not actually published, the author had a common law copyright which hasn't run out yet. In that case, the manuscript could only have been published in 1943 with permission. But, if the books were really published in 1924 and 1925, and without a copyright notice, then they immediately went into the public domain. Anybody could republish the entire work, but they would not get a new copyright on the previous work (except possibly to minor things like a new format and anything new added to the book like a new introduction). Facts can never be copyrighted, nor can public domain material. Only new, creative effort can earn a copyright. "Can someone actually buy the ownership to copyright this and say "hey I own this now!" A copyright to a written work can be bought from the copyright owner, but it has to be in writing. Many descendants might be the copyright owners today if the author is deceased. When you say it looks like he printed them on his own, do you mean that they were typed? If so, are they originals or carbon copies? I'm just trying to figure out if they were published or not. Where or how you got the books might help you or someone else make such a decision. Cliff Trina Huynh wrote: >Wow---this is very complicated. > I can tell that these manuscripts were just printed up on his own--which would make it in the public domain...however what if some publishing company found these same papers and decided to publish them later on like say 1943 (e.g.). Can someone actually buy the ownership to copyright this and say "hey I own this now!" > thanks for your help. > > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos

FHL has 15 of them. By the way Milo Custer was born in 1880. Every one of them microfilmed at various times, majority before 1923. No copyright mentioned even for those later publications, too. David Samuelsen Trina Huynh wrote: > Hi Cliff > Yes they were typed and has his handwritten additional notes on some of the papers. > Here's what it states at the end of one of the sections: " ALL OF THE ABOVE WERE ISSUED IN SMALL EDITIONS, AND ARE NOW OUT OF PRINT EXCEPT THOSE NOTED THUS * OF WHICH THE AUTHOR HAS A FEW COPIES LEFT THAT ARE FOR SALE OR EXCHANGE." > > Compiled and Printed by Milo Custer, Bloomington, Illinois. > (I did some research & found that Milo Custer authored about 32 or more short genealogies in which he had compiled and printed himself and then distributed to various libraries etc...) > > Cliff Lamere <clifflamere@nycap.rr.com> wrote: > Trina, > > "I can tell that these manuscripts were just printed up on his > own--which would make it in the public domain" > > If they were never published, then you can't say that for sure. He > could have typed a single copy of each for himself, or he might have > printed several copies of each for distribution. Do you think they were > ever sold? > > "what if some publishing company found these same papers and decided to > publish them later on like say 1943 (e.g.)." > > If they were not actually published, the author had a common law > copyright which hasn't run out yet. In that case, the manuscript could > only have been published in 1943 with permission. But, if the books > were really published in 1924 and 1925, and without a copyright notice, > then they immediately went into the public domain. Anybody could > republish the entire work, but they would not get a new copyright on the > previous work (except possibly to minor things like a new format and > anything new added to the book like a new introduction). Facts can > never be copyrighted, nor can public domain material. Only new, > creative effort can earn a copyright. > > "Can someone actually buy the ownership to copyright this and say "hey I > own this now!" > > A copyright to a written work can be bought from the copyright owner, > but it has to be in writing. Many descendants might be the copyright > owners today if the author is deceased. > > When you say it looks like he printed them on his own, do you mean that > they were typed? If so, are they originals or carbon copies? I'm just > trying to figure out if they were published or not. Where or how you > got the books might help you or someone else make such a decision. > > Cliff > > > Trina Huynh wrote: > > >>Wow---this is very complicated. >>I can tell that these manuscripts were just printed up on his own--which would make it in the public domain...however what if some publishing company found these same papers and decided to publish them later on like say 1943 (e.g.). Can someone actually buy the ownership to copyright this and say "hey I own this now!" >>thanks for your help. >> >> >> >> > > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >