You can transcribe from their images and you can transcribe from the books, for your own personal use. You cannot freely give to others using their transcription or sell to others. If you go to the library and find said book and make your own copy you can do with it what you will. As long as the book is in the public domain. Would you like others to take your information that you worked hard to find and transcribe, and sell it or give it to whoever? Yes some of the images are of census items, but they have also transcribed those images. I believe on ancestry you can send images to friends, but you are still limited on certain copyright and licensing agreements. I don't believe that you can use their images on a website. After all it is their image - their picture if you will. You can go to the library get the film and copy it, then you have your own image. Rene' -------Original Message------- From: Sara Binkley Tarpley Date: 03/10/06 14:21:54 To: COPYRIGHT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [COPYRIGHT] HeritageQuest Images Well, I think it would require a lawyer to full comprehend what the licensing agreement means. Actually I agreed to the terms only by use; the subscriber is my local public librarry: *b) You will use the Products solely for your own personal or internal use. You will not publish, broadcast or sell any materials retrieved through the Products or use the materials in any manner that will infringe the copyright or other proprietary right of ProQuest or its licensors. You may not use the Products to execute denial of service attacks nor may you perform automated searches against ProQuest's systems to the extent such searches unduly burden ProQuest's systems (including, but not limited to automated "bots" or link checkers). You may print and make copies of materials retrieved through the Products only as permitted in Section 1 (d) of this Agreement. You represent and warrant to ProQuest that you will not use the Products or any material retrieved from the Products to create products or perform services which compete or interfere with the publications and services of ProQuest or its licensors.* ** *d) You may create printouts of materials retrieved through the Products via on-line printing, off-line printing, facsimile, or electronic mail. All reproduction and distribution of such printouts, and all downloading and electronic storage of materials retrieved through the Products shall be for your own internal or personal use. Downloading of all or parts of the Products in a systematic or regular manner so as to create a collection of materials comprising all or part of the Products is strictly prohibited whether or not such collection is in electronic or print form. Notwithstanding the above restrictions, this paragraph shall not restrict your use of the materials under the doctrines of "fair use" or "fair dealing" as defined under the laws of the United States or England, respectively. * *7) Proprietary Rights. All intellectual property rights, including without limitation, trade secrets, copyrights and patent rights to any software, materials, databases or hardware supplied to you by ProQuest will remain the sole property of ProQuest or its licensors, and no title or license right is granted to you except as expressly set forth in this Agreement.* It almost sounds as if you used facts from the materials in a database posted on Rootsweb, you would be violating this agreement. That makes no sense to me. Surely, just as there is no way to copyright a fact, there must be no way to license a fact. Also, some of the images [although I use those at Ancestry] are census images. Surely HeritageQuest cannot keep people from transcribing public records from their images. One problem with the above paragraphs is that HeritageQuest does not define *Products *or *materials.* Sara * * On 3/10/06, JYoung6180@aol.com <JYoung6180@aol.com> wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/10/2006 1:46:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, > sarabtarpley@gmail.com writes: > > I feel like I am really dumb here, but is this license they hold for the > images or for the content [including a transcription of the content]? > > Sara > > > > The license is merely whatever terms you agreed to when you subscribed to > the service--you stated in your original post that it seemed to claim you > couldn't reproduce any data directly from their database (even privately > to answer > a lookup request) -- if you agreed to those terms then you are bound by > them. Personally I haven't seen the terms you agreed to so it is > difficult to be > specific. > > Joan > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or > historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in > Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old > Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, > send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or > mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. Think to keep your Anti-Virus up-to-date! ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx

At 02:10 PM 3/10/2006, Sara Binkley Tarpley wrote: >One problem with the above paragraphs is that HeritageQuest does not define >*Products *or *materials.* Look for a phrase, "hereinafter known as 'Product". Alternatively, if you are viewing the agreement at a public URL, share it so the rest of us can take a look. I did find this at the Customer service link: "While it's true that the original documents are "public domain," we have painstakingly processed the records through our proprietary enhancement systems. It is through this synthesizing process that we have generated a new product, which is fully protected by U.S. and International copyright law." However, since copyright protects only original intellectual concepts, it seems to me that copies (product) of public domain documents, no matter how much they are enhanced, are not protected by copyright. Again, they may be protected by the licensing agreement for access, but that is not copyright. Hope you have a URL :) Pat

Cliff, Thanks. I was beginning to feel incredibly stupid. Sara On 3/10/06, Cliff Lamere <clifflamere@nycap.rr.com> wrote: > > Sara, > > As I understand it, Heritage Quest is saying that you can't collect a > large number of the IMAGES from their databases of images, and then > republish them. As I recall, they have only images (censuses, books, > newspapers). > > They say, "Downloading of all or parts of the Products in a systematic or > regular manner so as to create a collection of > materials comprising all or **PART** of the Products is strictly > prohibited whether or not such collection is in electronic or print > form." (my emphasis) > > That is poorly worded and misleading, I think. They should have said > something like "significant part." When you read it, it probably sounded > like ANY part, even a single page, but that is not what they mean. > > For your personal use, you can make a small collection of their images on > your computer (perhaps 50, perhaps 100, perhaps more). Before doing > something like that, download one of them and see if you can view it > properly. > > Censuses are all in the public domain. You are free to transcribe as many > census images as you want. There is no restriction to transcribing public > domain materials. You can then put whatever you transcribe onto a website, > even though it came from their images. > > The Heritage Quest books are probably all in the public domain as well, > but I'm not certain of that. If the books are all pre-1923, then they are > in the public domain. Books after that can be in the public domain as well, > but that can't be determined easily. > > Another problem that I see in the paragraphs of their licensing agreement > that you sent is that they are addressing both U.S. and English copyright > laws at the same time. If you don't know each law, you could think that > some of the parts apply to you when they actually don't. > > Cliff > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Sara Binkley Tarpley wrote: > > >Well, I think it would require a lawyer to full comprehend what the > >licensing agreement means. Actually I agreed to the terms only by use; > the > >subscriber is my local public library: > > > >*b) You will use the Products solely for your own personal or internal > use. > >You will not publish, broadcast or sell any materials retrieved through > the > >Products or use the materials in any manner that will infringe the > copyright > >or other proprietary right of ProQuest or its licensors. You may not use > the > >Products to execute denial of service attacks nor may you perform > automated > >searches against ProQuest's systems to the extent such searches unduly > >burden ProQuest's systems (including, but not limited to automated "bots" > or > >link checkers). You may print and make copies of materials retrieved > through > >the Products only as permitted in Section 1 (d) of this Agreement. You > >represent and warrant to ProQuest that you will not use the Products or > any > >material retrieved from the Products to create products or perform > services > >which compete or interfere with the publications and services of ProQuest > or > >its licensors.* > >** > >*d) You may create printouts of materials retrieved through the Products > via > >on-line printing, off-line printing, facsimile, or electronic mail. All > >reproduction and distribution of such printouts, and all downloading and > >electronic storage of materials retrieved through the Products shall be > for > >your own internal or personal use. Downloading of all or parts of the > >Products in a systematic or regular manner so as to create a collection > of > >materials comprising all or part of the Products is strictly prohibited > >whether or not such collection is in electronic or print form. > Notwithstanding > >the above restrictions, this paragraph shall not restrict your use of the > >materials under the doctrines of "fair use" or "fair dealing" as defined > >under the laws of the United States or England, respectively. > >* > ><snip> > > > > > Sara > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on mailto: > COPYRIGHT-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or > mailto:COPYRIGHT-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > – Contact COPYRIGHT-admin@rootsweb.com for list related problems. For the > COPYRIGHT-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/copyright. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

You can, though, use excerpts of the copies in your own works, would be no different than taking excerpts from any published material available in the library or newspaper, as long as you don't copy a whole page and try to use that. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sara Binkley Tarpley" <sarabtarpley@gmail.com> To: <COPYRIGHT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [COPYRIGHT] HeritageQuest Images > Well, I think it would require a lawyer to full comprehend what the > licensing agreement means. Actually I agreed to the terms only by use; > the > subscriber is my local public librarry: > > *b) You will use the Products solely for your own personal or internal > use. > You will not publish, broadcast or sell any materials retrieved through > the > Products or use the materials in any manner that will infringe the > copyright > or other proprietary right of ProQuest or its licensors. You may not use > the > Products to execute denial of service attacks nor may you perform > automated > searches against ProQuest's systems to the extent such searches unduly > burden ProQuest's systems (including, but not limited to automated "bots" > or > link checkers). You may print and make copies of materials retrieved > through > the Products only as permitted in Section 1 (d) of this Agreement. You > represent and warrant to ProQuest that you will not use the Products or > any > material retrieved from the Products to create products or perform > services > which compete or interfere with the publications and services of ProQuest > or > its licensors.* > ** > *d) You may create printouts of materials retrieved through the Products > via > on-line printing, off-line printing, facsimile, or electronic mail. All > reproduction and distribution of such printouts, and all downloading and > electronic storage of materials retrieved through the Products shall be > for > your own internal or personal use. Downloading of all or parts of the > Products in a systematic or regular manner so as to create a collection of > materials comprising all or part of the Products is strictly prohibited > whether or not such collection is in electronic or print form. > Notwithstanding > the above restrictions, this paragraph shall not restrict your use of the > materials under the doctrines of "fair use" or "fair dealing" as defined > under the laws of the United States or England, respectively. > * > > *7) Proprietary Rights. All intellectual property rights, including > without > limitation, trade secrets, copyrights and patent rights to any software, > materials, databases or hardware supplied to you by ProQuest will remain > the > sole property of ProQuest or its licensors, and no title or license right > is > granted to you except as expressly set forth in this Agreement.* > It almost sounds as if you used facts from the materials in a database > posted on Rootsweb, you would be violating this agreement. That makes no > sense to me. Surely, just as there is no way to copyright a fact, there > must be no way to license a fact. Also, some of the images [although I > use > those at Ancestry] are census images. Surely HeritageQuest cannot keep > people from transcribing public records from their images. > > One problem with the above paragraphs is that HeritageQuest does not > define > *Products *or *materials.* > > Sara > > * > > * > > > On 3/10/06, JYoung6180@aol.com <JYoung6180@aol.com> wrote: >> >> >> In a message dated 3/10/2006 1:46:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, >> sarabtarpley@gmail.com writes: >> >> I feel like I am really dumb here, but is this license they hold for the >> images or for the content [including a transcription of the content]? >> >> Sara >> >> >> >> The license is merely whatever terms you agreed to when you subscribed >> to >> the service--you stated in your original post that it seemed to claim >> you >> couldn't reproduce any data directly from their database (even privately >> to answer >> a lookup request) -- if you agreed to those terms then you are bound by >> them. Personally I haven't seen the terms you agreed to so it is >> difficult to be >> specific. >> >> Joan >> >> >> ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== >> LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or >> historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in >> Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old >> Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To >> subscribe, >> send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) >> or >> mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) >> >> ============================== >> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> >> > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus > that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb > mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., > go please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. Think to keep your > Anti-Virus up-to-date! > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > >

In a message dated 3/10/2006 2:11:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, sarabtarpley@gmail.com writes: *7) Proprietary Rights. All intellectual property rights, including without limitation, trade secrets, copyrights and patent rights to any software, materials, databases or hardware supplied to you by ProQuest will remain the sole property of ProQuest or its licensors, and no title or license right is granted to you except as expressly set forth in this Agreement.* It almost sounds as if you used facts from the materials in a database posted on Rootsweb, you would be violating this agreement. That makes no sense to me. Surely, just as there is no way to copyright a fact, there must be no way to license a fact. Also, some of the images [although I use those at Ancestry] are census images. Surely HeritageQuest cannot keep people from transcribing public records from their images. One problem with the above paragraphs is that HeritageQuest does not define *Products *or *materials.* It doesn't seem to me that they are saying you can't transcribe the DATA from the census images or that you can't rewrite the data as your own transcription. I believe what they are saying is that you can't copy their database and sell it or republish it on the Internet and/or take whole chunks from their database and give it to others. They don't seem to be limiting your own use and I don't feel they would object to looking up a specific entry for another person. They just don't want their entire database or large parts of it "stolen." Joan

Here it is. http://www.il.proquest.com/legal/terms_conditions.shtml On 3/10/06, Pat Asher <pasher@ee.net> wrote: > > At 02:10 PM 3/10/2006, Sara Binkley Tarpley wrote: > >One problem with the above paragraphs is that HeritageQuest does not > define > >*Products *or *materials.* > > Look for a phrase, "hereinafter known as 'Product". > > Alternatively, if you are viewing the agreement at a public URL, share it > so the rest of us can take a look. > > I did find this at the Customer service link: > "While it's true that the original documents are "public domain," we have > painstakingly processed the records through our proprietary enhancement > systems. It is through this synthesizing process that we have generated a > new product, which is fully protected by U.S. and International copyright > law." > > However, since copyright protects only original intellectual concepts, it > seems to me that copies (product) of public domain documents, no matter > how > much they are enhanced, are not protected by copyright. Again, they may > be > protected by the licensing agreement for access, but that is not > copyright. > > Hope you have a URL :) > > Pat > > > > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus > that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb > mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go > please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. Think to keep your > Anti-Virus up-to-date! > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > >

In a message dated 3/10/2006 1:46:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, sarabtarpley@gmail.com writes: I feel like I am really dumb here, but is this license they hold for the images or for the content [including a transcription of the content]? Sara The license is merely whatever terms you agreed to when you subscribed to the service--you stated in your original post that it seemed to claim you couldn't reproduce any data directly from their database (even privately to answer a lookup request) -- if you agreed to those terms then you are bound by them. Personally I haven't seen the terms you agreed to so it is difficult to be specific. Joan

Well, I think it would require a lawyer to full comprehend what the licensing agreement means. Actually I agreed to the terms only by use; the subscriber is my local public librarry: *b) You will use the Products solely for your own personal or internal use. You will not publish, broadcast or sell any materials retrieved through the Products or use the materials in any manner that will infringe the copyright or other proprietary right of ProQuest or its licensors. You may not use the Products to execute denial of service attacks nor may you perform automated searches against ProQuest's systems to the extent such searches unduly burden ProQuest's systems (including, but not limited to automated "bots" or link checkers). You may print and make copies of materials retrieved through the Products only as permitted in Section 1 (d) of this Agreement. You represent and warrant to ProQuest that you will not use the Products or any material retrieved from the Products to create products or perform services which compete or interfere with the publications and services of ProQuest or its licensors.* ** *d) You may create printouts of materials retrieved through the Products via on-line printing, off-line printing, facsimile, or electronic mail. All reproduction and distribution of such printouts, and all downloading and electronic storage of materials retrieved through the Products shall be for your own internal or personal use. Downloading of all or parts of the Products in a systematic or regular manner so as to create a collection of materials comprising all or part of the Products is strictly prohibited whether or not such collection is in electronic or print form. Notwithstanding the above restrictions, this paragraph shall not restrict your use of the materials under the doctrines of "fair use" or "fair dealing" as defined under the laws of the United States or England, respectively. * *7) Proprietary Rights. All intellectual property rights, including without limitation, trade secrets, copyrights and patent rights to any software, materials, databases or hardware supplied to you by ProQuest will remain the sole property of ProQuest or its licensors, and no title or license right is granted to you except as expressly set forth in this Agreement.* It almost sounds as if you used facts from the materials in a database posted on Rootsweb, you would be violating this agreement. That makes no sense to me. Surely, just as there is no way to copyright a fact, there must be no way to license a fact. Also, some of the images [although I use those at Ancestry] are census images. Surely HeritageQuest cannot keep people from transcribing public records from their images. One problem with the above paragraphs is that HeritageQuest does not define *Products *or *materials.* Sara * * On 3/10/06, JYoung6180@aol.com <JYoung6180@aol.com> wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/10/2006 1:46:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, > sarabtarpley@gmail.com writes: > > I feel like I am really dumb here, but is this license they hold for the > images or for the content [including a transcription of the content]? > > Sara > > > > The license is merely whatever terms you agreed to when you subscribed to > the service--you stated in your original post that it seemed to claim you > couldn't reproduce any data directly from their database (even privately > to answer > a lookup request) -- if you agreed to those terms then you are bound by > them. Personally I haven't seen the terms you agreed to so it is > difficult to be > specific. > > Joan > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or > historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in > Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old > Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, > send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or > mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

I feel like I am really dumb here, but is this license they hold for the images or for the content [including a transcription of the content]? Sara On 3/9/06, JYoung6180@aol.com <JYoung6180@aol.com> wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/9/2006 6:42:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, > bjreece@bellsouth.net writes: > > I think it may be an issue of that they own the images on their > site. You > can still use the original book if there is no copyright but you can't use > their images of the book. Am I wrong? > > > > No--they do not hold copyright over the images either--you can't copyright > an image of public domain material. However, they do have a licensing > agreement with their subscribers. > > Joan > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on mailto: > COPYRIGHT-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or > mailto:COPYRIGHT-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > – Contact COPYRIGHT-admin@rootsweb.com for list related problems. For the > COPYRIGHT-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/copyright. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

--- Pat Asher <pasher@ee.net> wrote: > I did find this at the Customer service link: > "While it's true that the original documents are > "public domain," we have > painstakingly processed the records through our > proprietary enhancement > systems. It is through this synthesizing process > that we have generated a > new product, which is fully protected by U.S. and > International copyright law." > Pat's right -- "sweat of the brow" and/or "industrious collection" are accorded no copyright protections at all. HeritageQuest is trying to convince you not to take 'their' scans, but if they are exact scans of the public records rather than a real database or extraction of those records, they have no rights at all as far as my reading of the copyright law goes. Copyright requires originality and there is no originality in scanning public domain documents. Kathi Jones-Hudson MD Tombstone Transcription Project Manager http://www.rootsweb.com/~cemetery/maryland/maryland.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

HeritageQuest does not hold the copyright. The works are in the public domain and free to use as you see fit. They may 'own' the images of the book on their website. I am in the middle of scanning some books from various libraries for my own personal digital library. Eventually I am hoping to have an online library of books, modeled after Project Gutenberg, http://www.gutenberg.org. Aaron Hill > From: ruthplay@scrtc.com> Subject: Re: [COPYRIGHT] HeritageQuest Images> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:46:09 -0600> To: COPYRIGHT-L@rootsweb.com> > I have found that if you ask for permission to use an excerpt from the larger > documents, most digital libraries will give permission.> > Ruth> > Love is, above all, the gift of oneself. ~Jean Anouilh> ----- Original Message ----- > From: <JYoung6180@aol.com>> To: <COPYRIGHT-L@rootsweb.com>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 2:02 PM> Subject: Re: [COPYRIGHT] HeritageQuest Images> > > >> > In a message dated 3/9/2006 2:59:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,> > sarabtarpley@gmail.com writes:> >> > So, HeritageQuest can restrict the reposting?> >> > Sara> >> >> >> > A lot of people just agree to those licensing terms that are so restrictive> > and then break them. They seem to get away with it as long as they are not> > blatantly reselling the data and just doing a brief lookup for someone for no> > profit--but mind you, I'm not suggestin! g you break the licensing agreement.> >> > Joan _________________________________________________________________ Search on the go: Try Windows Live(tm) Search for Mobile beta http://www1.imagine-msn.com/minisites/mobile/Default.aspx?locale=en-us

In a message dated 3/9/2006 6:42:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, bjreece@bellsouth.net writes: I think it may be an issue of that they own the images on their site. You can still use the original book if there is no copyright but you can't use their images of the book. Am I wrong? No--they do not hold copyright over the images either--you can't copyright an image of public domain material. However, they do have a licensing agreement with their subscribers. Joan

I think it may be an issue of that they own the images on their site. You can still use the original book if there is no copyright but you can't use their images of the book. Am I wrong? Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: <JYoung6180@aol.com> To: <COPYRIGHT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [COPYRIGHT] HeritageQuest Images > > In a message dated 3/9/2006 2:49:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, > sarabtarpley@gmail.com writes: > > HeritageQuest has posted images of books that are now in the public > domain. > However, the HeritageQuest user agreement says that you cannot republish > [or > even share, as far as I can tell] materials that you find on > HeritageQuest. > I am somewhat confused by this. If I were to find one of these books > in > my local library, I would certainly feel free to put excerpts on my Web > site > and wouldn't necessarily know about HeritageQuest's copyright. I > understand > that they can own the images, but can they also own a photocopy made > directly from the book or my typewritten transcription from either the > book > or their image? > > If HeritageQuest can indeed restrict the reproduction of these books or > pages thereof, does it fall within fair use to post on a personal Web > site a > single article from a book that contains numerous articles? > > Sara Binkley Tarpley > > > > Sara- > > It is NOT fair use and is NOT a copyright issue at all, AND the images of > public domain material can't be copyrighted either...what you have in this > instance is a LICENSING agreement--a contract you agreed to when > subscribing to > HQ. So copyright and fair use play no role here. > > Joan > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus > that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb > mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., > go please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. Think to keep your > Anti-Virus up-to-date! > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/278 - Release Date: 3/9/2006 > >

In a message dated 3/9/2006 4:39:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, mrmayor@hotmail.com writes: HeritageQuest does not hold the copyright. The works are in the public domain and free to use as you see fit. They may 'own' the images of the book on their website. I am in the middle of scanning some books from various libraries for my own personal digital library. Eventually I am hoping to have an online library of books, modeled after Project Gutenberg, http://www.gutenberg.org. Aaron Hill Aaron- They do have a compilation copyright to their database but copyright isn't the issue here...it is a matter of a LICENSING agreement. If you can find the public domain info elsewhere -- in a place where you have not agreed to a licensing agreement, then fine, feel free to use it--but copying directly from a database where you have agreed NOT to do so--could get you in trouble. While they would most likely not bother someone who does a couple small lookups privately, I can remember FamilyTreeMaker cracking down on at least one wholesale copier of data quite a few years ago (someone copying entire sections of a World Family Tree CD). Joan

That's right. If a book is old enough to be in the public domain you can scan a copy of it yourself, but without permission of the online site, you cannot use their version to repost to another site or put in a book for sale without written permission. Most online digital resources allow you to use the items for scholarly reasons. Ruth Love is, above all, the gift of oneself. ~Jean Anouilh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce G. Reece" <bjreece@bellsouth.net> To: <COPYRIGHT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [COPYRIGHT] HeritageQuest Images >I think it may be an issue of that they own the images on their site. You can >still use the original book if there is no copyright but you can't use their >images of the book. Am I wrong? > > Joyce Gaston Reece > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <JYoung6180@aol.com> > To: <COPYRIGHT-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 2:55 PM > Subject: Re: [COPYRIGHT] HeritageQuest Images > > >> >> In a message dated 3/9/2006 2:49:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, >> sarabtarpley@gmail.com writes: >> >> HeritageQuest has posted images of books that are now in the public domain. >> However, the HeritageQuest user agreement says that you cannot republish [or >> even share, as far as I can tell] materials that you find on HeritageQuest. >> I am somewhat confused by this. If I were to find one of these books in >> my local library, I would certainly feel free to put excerpts on my Web site >> and wouldn't necessarily know about HeritageQuest's copyright. I understand >> that they can own the images, but can they also own a photocopy made >> directly from the book or my typewritten transcription from either the book >> or their image? >> >> If HeritageQuest can indeed restrict the reproduction of these books or >> pages thereof, does it fall within fair use to post on a personal Web site a >> single article from a book that contains numerous articles? >> >> Sara Binkley Tarpley >> >> >> >> Sara- >> >> It is NOT fair use and is NOT a copyright issue at all, AND the images of >> public domain material can't be copyrighted either...what you have in this >> instance is a LICENSING agreement--a contract you agreed to when subscribing >> to >> HQ. So copyright and fair use play no role here. >> >> Joan >> >> >> ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== >> RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus >> that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb >> mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go >> please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. Think to keep your >> Anti-Virus up-to-date! >> >> ============================== >> New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at >> the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: >> http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/278 - Release Date: 3/9/2006 >> >> > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical > interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from > earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, > phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe > to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or > mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/277 - Release Date: 3/8/2006 > >

In a message dated 3/9/2006 2:59:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, sarabtarpley@gmail.com writes: So, HeritageQuest can restrict the reposting? Sara A lot of people just agree to those licensing terms that are so restrictive and then break them. They seem to get away with it as long as they are not blatantly reselling the data and just doing a brief lookup for someone for no profit--but mind you, I'm not suggesting you break the licensing agreement. Joan

In a message dated 3/9/2006 2:49:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, sarabtarpley@gmail.com writes: HeritageQuest has posted images of books that are now in the public domain. However, the HeritageQuest user agreement says that you cannot republish [or even share, as far as I can tell] materials that you find on HeritageQuest. I am somewhat confused by this. If I were to find one of these books in my local library, I would certainly feel free to put excerpts on my Web site and wouldn't necessarily know about HeritageQuest's copyright. I understand that they can own the images, but can they also own a photocopy made directly from the book or my typewritten transcription from either the book or their image? If HeritageQuest can indeed restrict the reproduction of these books or pages thereof, does it fall within fair use to post on a personal Web site a single article from a book that contains numerous articles? Sara Binkley Tarpley Sara- It is NOT fair use and is NOT a copyright issue at all, AND the images of public domain material can't be copyrighted either...what you have in this instance is a LICENSING agreement--a contract you agreed to when subscribing to HQ. So copyright and fair use play no role here. Joan

Thanks, Ruth. Sara Binkley Tarpley On 3/9/06, Ruth <ruthplay@scrtc.com> wrote: > > I have found that if you ask for permission to use an excerpt from the > larger > documents, most digital libraries will give permission. > > Ruth > > Love is, above all, the gift of oneself. ~Jean Anouilh > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <JYoung6180@aol.com> > To: <COPYRIGHT-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 2:02 PM > Subject: Re: [COPYRIGHT] HeritageQuest Images > > > > > > In a message dated 3/9/2006 2:59:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > sarabtarpley@gmail.com writes: > > > > So, HeritageQuest can restrict the reposting? > > > > Sara > > > > > > > > A lot of people just agree to those licensing terms that are so > restrictive > > and then break them. They seem to get away with it as long as they > are not > > blatantly reselling the data and just doing a brief lookup for > someone for no > > profit--but mind you, I'm not suggesting you break the > licensing agreement. > > > > Joan > > > > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A > virus that > > is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb > mailing > > list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go > please to: > > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. Think to keep your Anti-Virus > > up-to-date! > > > > ============================== > > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/277 - Release Date: 3/8/2006 > > > > > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on mailto: > COPYRIGHT-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or > mailto:COPYRIGHT-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > – Contact COPYRIGHT-admin@rootsweb.com for list related problems. For the > COPYRIGHT-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/copyright. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

I have found that if you ask for permission to use an excerpt from the larger documents, most digital libraries will give permission. Ruth Love is, above all, the gift of oneself. ~Jean Anouilh ----- Original Message ----- From: <JYoung6180@aol.com> To: <COPYRIGHT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [COPYRIGHT] HeritageQuest Images > > In a message dated 3/9/2006 2:59:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, > sarabtarpley@gmail.com writes: > > So, HeritageQuest can restrict the reposting? > > Sara > > > > A lot of people just agree to those licensing terms that are so restrictive > and then break them. They seem to get away with it as long as they are not > blatantly reselling the data and just doing a brief lookup for someone for no > profit--but mind you, I'm not suggesting you break the licensing agreement. > > Joan > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus that > is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb mailing > list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go please to: > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. Think to keep your Anti-Virus > up-to-date! > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/277 - Release Date: 3/8/2006 > >

So, HeritageQuest can restrict the reposting? Sara On 3/9/06, JYoung6180@aol.com <JYoung6180@aol.com> wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/9/2006 2:49:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, > sarabtarpley@gmail.com writes: > > HeritageQuest has posted images of books that are now in the > public domain. > However, the HeritageQuest user agreement says that you cannot republish > [or > even share, as far as I can tell] materials that you find > on HeritageQuest. > I am somewhat confused by this. If I were to find one of these books > in > my local library, I would certainly feel free to put excerpts on my Web > site > and wouldn't necessarily know about HeritageQuest's copyright. I > understand > that they can own the images, but can they also own a photocopy made > directly from the book or my typewritten transcription from either the > book > or their image? > > If HeritageQuest can indeed restrict the reproduction of these books or > pages thereof, does it fall within fair use to post on a personal Web > site a > single article from a book that contains numerous articles? > > Sara Binkley Tarpley > > > > Sara- > > It is NOT fair use and is NOT a copyright issue at all, AND the images of > public domain material can't be copyrighted either...what you have in this > instance is a LICENSING agreement--a contract you agreed to when > subscribing to > HQ. So copyright and fair use play no role here. > > Joan > > > ==== COPYRIGHT Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus > that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb > mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go > please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. Think to keep your > Anti-Virus up-to-date! > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > >