Donna, You asked: "Is there any way to stop someone from publishing information about living people on their web site?" Here are some thoughts: If _you_ are the "living person" (and you are not a public figure) or if you are the legal representative of the person (or otherwise legally responsible for the person, such as being the parent of a minor), I'd say "yes." In such a situation, I'd start with a polite (but firm) message to the owner/webmaster of the website. If you don't fit any of the above situations, I can't see that you have any "legal" interest in the matter and there's nothing you can do. In short, if your next-door neighbor or your 2nd cousin wants to have _their_ personal information taken off a website (info that is not in the public domain and for which they had not given consent for publication), they'll have to do the deed themselves. If you're simply on a crusade to have such data removed, generically, I'd say you are out of luck. Certainly, you can marshall your reasons and send a carefully written "educational" message to the appropriate website owners/webmasters. In this regard, you might want to look at the privacy policies re living persons as stated by the LDS Church and on various web sites. If you find ones you like, you can certainly provide a link to the appropriate page(s) of the website from within your email message. However, if you try to intervene or make demands regarding the personal data of persons other than those for whom you have legal responsibility, don't be surprised if your messages are ignored - or if you are pointedly told to MYOB. Btw, you should keep in mind that there's a lot of "personal" information that is readily available in the public domain: i.e. in phone books, voter registration records, etc. Most personal, genealogically-related websites are likely to have "personal" info only on persons that are fairly closely related to the person owning the website. If _your_ info is on such a website, the chances are that you know the website owner/ webmaster; if there's not a family feud in progress <vbg>, I'd think that a personal request to the owner/webmaster should suffice. Just my two cents worth... Richard ([email protected]) -----Original Message----- From: Donna Brand <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 4:22 PM Subject: Living folks info Well, I've been wandering around the Internet for a few days, my eyes are burning, so maybe someone here can help. Is there any way to stop someone from publishing information about living people on their web site? If so where can I find the information. Help needed. donna ============================== Free Web space. ANY amount. ANY subject. RootsWeb's Freepages put you in touch with millions. http://cgi.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/acctform.cgi

Well, I've been wandering around the Internet for a few days, my eyes are burning, so maybe someone here can help. Is there any way to stop someone from publishing information about living people on their web site? If so where can I find the information. Help needed. donna

In a message dated 99-11-14 19:22:41 EST, you write: << Well, I've been wandering around the Internet for a few days, my eyes are burning, so maybe someone here can help. Is there any way to stop someone from publishing information about living people on their web site? If so where can I find the information. Help needed. >> Hi, Thanks for asking this question. I have wondered too. On the webpage I host we have a rule, no one born after 1920 unless you have a death date. Once I found many of my living relatives on a webpage, I wrote to the person and they removed them. Which was nice. I am interested in any answers on this too. Thanks, Diane

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At 10:10 AM 11/7/99 -0500, you wrote: >Christine Charity <[email protected]> wrote: >> I have been asked to remove a link from a website that I operate, >> Censuslinks.com. Initially the site owner accused me of stealing the >> material and violating her copyright by placing a link on it from my site >> to theirs.[...] This is not legal advice, but all the same, here's a quote on the topic: "Some lawyers have been telling people that you have to get permission before you link to something. That's a terrible affront to free speech." - Tim Berners-Lee, inventor of the World Wide Web Glenn

Hi, I have been trying to locate a book called The Langstaff's of Teesdale & Weardale: History of a Yeoman Family. author George Blundell LONGSTAFF. It is a bibliography of the Longstaff/Langstaff name with pedigrees etc. I managed to locate it at the British Library, where they said they could photocopy it for me, but I have to get copyright permission in writing, the book was published in 1906. They gave me an addres to wrtie to for assistance, but they never replied, so I am stuck as to how and where to get copyright permission to copy the pages of this book. Can anyone please help with this query. Regards Val Bailey [email protected]

Christine, I think you should let the Link stand. There is no copyrights infringed with linking! They should be happy (most Societies are), that you felt they are important enough to be listed. If they are just thinking of making money, they are not much of a Society to help others in their Research. And they definitely should not call themselves that and put up Society Sites, but Ads! And as rude as they were, you don't have to respond. If you want you can forward my letter, at least to let them know that you thought about it and checked in to it. Good Luck and thanks for sharing your encounter and your Genealogy Sites. Greetings, Scarlett Ziemba List & Board Administrator Kosharek-L, Lamoreaux-L, Lamoureux-L, Schirpke-L, Sperling-L, Sullick-L, Ziemba-L;

There are links to both Rootsweb and the US GenWeb Project at the top of the front page right underneath the menu bar. Christine Date forwarded: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 08:22:08 -0800 (PST) Date sent: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 09:21:57 -0700 From: "W. David Samuelsen" <[email protected]> Send reply to: [email protected] Subject: Re: Opinions needed To: [email protected] Forwarded by: [email protected] > Christine, > Something else to address.... > > How come you recommended "ALHN, USIGS, Afrigenas, GeneaSearch" but not > mentioning the USGenWeb Census Project which has hundreds of FULL census > information??? > > Christine Charity wrote: > > > > I have been asked to remove a link from a website that I operate, > > Censuslinks.com. Initially the site owner accused me of stealing the > > material and violating her copyright by placing a link on it from my > > site to theirs. When I pointed out that no material was published at > > Censuslinks, only links, the site owner responded with the following > > reasons for wanting me to remove the link: > > > > 1. "Your site seems to duplicate the efforts of other indexes and search > > engines." 2. "The problem with linking to pages at random without first > > making a courteous request of the page owner is that pages are edited > > and updated and the links may no longer work. I really don't have time > > to notify multiple sites when changes are made on our web site. " > > > > When I responded that I never asked to be notified of changes made to > > any website that I have linked to, and asked if they were asking > > everyone who had "linked without their permission to remove the links" I > > received the following responses: > > > > 1. "One reason our Genealogical Society is concerned about the tax lists > > on line is that the (name removed by me) is in the process of publishing > > the tax lists from 1847-1859 that I edited and prepared for publication. > > These books will be for sale and if they aren't already out, soon will > > be. There is a possibility that we may need to remove these tax lists > > at least temporarily. While our local Genealogical Society has been > > VERY cooperative with our website and are in fact, quite proud of it, > > they are justifiably concerned about any loss of sales with anything we > > put on the net. Loss of sales must be protected." 2. "The Archive > > Coordinators did ask for permission before putting our cemetery links in > > the Archives. They have permission to have what they have in the > > archives. We did not grant anyone else that permission." > > > > My concern is not over losing the link, it is only one link out of 4,900 > > -- my concern is that my site is being singled out, that other sites > > that have links to this site, including Census-Online, On Line Census, > > Cyndi's List and Interment.net, are not being asked to remove their > > links. I have repeatedly asked this site owner why Censuslinks is being > > singled out and they have refused to answer the question. What would you > > do? > > > > Christine Charity > > > > Christine's Genealogy Website > > http://ccharity.com > > > > The Freedmen's Bureau Online > > http://freedmensbureau.com > > > > Censuslinks on the Internet > > http://censuslinks.com > > > > ============================== > > FREE UNLIMITED Web space at RootsWeb! > > Any subject: genealogy, computers, pets! Get your Freepages account > > today: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/acctform.cgi > > > ============================== > Free Web space. ANY amount. ANY subject. > RootsWeb's Freepages put you in touch with millions. > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/acctform.cgi >

At 10:01 11/7/99, Christine Charity wrote: >I have been asked to remove a link from a website that I operate, >Censuslinks.com. <snip> I'd also be interested in others' responses to Christine's question. My intitial response would be, since this is *only* a link to *their* pages, so what? What is posted on the internet is available to all. If you don't want others to see it or link to it, then don't post it!!! You are not infringing on any of their copyrights, since you only have that link to their *public* information. It would be a totally different story if you copied their page & posted it at your web site - we all realize this is stealing! I don't believe there is any reason to delete that link - other than the courtesy of reacting to their request. BUT - since you appear to be singled out, I would let the link stay on your page. If they don't want others to use it, then *they* need to take it off the internet! Am I being too blunt?? <G> -Linnea

Christine, Something else to address.... How come you recommended "ALHN, USIGS, Afrigenas, GeneaSearch" but not mentioning the USGenWeb Census Project which has hundreds of FULL census information??? Christine Charity wrote: > > I have been asked to remove a link from a website that I operate, > Censuslinks.com. Initially the site owner accused me of stealing the > material and violating her copyright by placing a link on it from my site to > theirs. When I pointed out that no material was published at Censuslinks, > only links, the site owner responded with the following reasons for wanting > me to remove the link: > > 1. "Your site seems to duplicate the efforts of other indexes and search > engines." > 2. "The problem with linking to pages at random without first making a > courteous request of the page owner is that pages are edited and updated and > the links may no longer work. I really don't have time to notify multiple > sites when changes are made on our web site. " > > When I responded that I never asked to be notified of changes made to any > website that I have linked to, and asked if they were asking everyone who > had "linked without their permission to remove the links" I received the > following responses: > > 1. "One reason our Genealogical Society is concerned about the tax lists on > line is that the (name removed by me) is in the process of publishing the > tax lists from 1847-1859 that I edited and prepared for publication. These > books will be for sale and if they aren't already out, soon will be. There > is a possibility that we may need to remove these tax lists at least > temporarily. While our local Genealogical Society has been VERY cooperative > with our website and are in fact, quite proud of it, they are justifiably > concerned about any loss of sales with anything we put on the net. Loss of > sales must be protected." > 2. "The Archive Coordinators did ask for permission before putting our > cemetery links in the Archives. They have permission to have what they have > in the archives. We did not grant anyone else that permission." > > My concern is not over losing the link, it is only one link out of 4,900 -- > my concern is that my site is being singled out, that other sites that have > links to this site, including Census-Online, On Line Census, Cyndi's List > and Interment.net, are not being asked to remove their links. I have > repeatedly asked this site owner why Censuslinks is being singled out and > they have refused to answer the question. What would you do? > > Christine Charity > > Christine's Genealogy Website > http://ccharity.com > > The Freedmen's Bureau Online > http://freedmensbureau.com > > Censuslinks on the Internet > http://censuslinks.com > > ============================== > FREE UNLIMITED Web space at RootsWeb! > Any subject: genealogy, computers, pets! Get your Freepages account today: > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/acctform.cgi

Christine Charity <[email protected]> wrote: > I have been asked to remove a link from a website that I operate, > Censuslinks.com. Initially the site owner accused me of stealing the > material and violating her copyright by placing a link on it from my site > to theirs. When I pointed out that no material was published at > Censuslinks, only links, the site owner responded with the following > reasons for wanting me to remove the link: > Christine, If the site owner used the words "steal" and "violating copyright" in regards to you, you have a good case of slander. Regarding removing a LINK to another site -- any site on the Internet is fair game to be linked to. Note that I said "Linked to" While some site owners do like to be asked before another site links to them, this is NOT a legal requirement. In other words, you do not have to have permission to link to any site that is online. If you wish to abide by the other site's request because you think it will foster better co-operation, good relationships, etc etc that is your choice. If you wish to keep the link from your site to theirs -- do it. The request is unreasonable. Lorine Lorine McGinnis Schulze [email protected] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * The Olive Tree Genealogy http://www.rootsweb.com/~ote/ * The Canadian Military Heritage Project http://www.rootsweb.com/~canmil/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have been asked to remove a link from a website that I operate, Censuslinks.com. Initially the site owner accused me of stealing the material and violating her copyright by placing a link on it from my site to theirs. When I pointed out that no material was published at Censuslinks, only links, the site owner responded with the following reasons for wanting me to remove the link: 1. "Your site seems to duplicate the efforts of other indexes and search engines." 2. "The problem with linking to pages at random without first making a courteous request of the page owner is that pages are edited and updated and the links may no longer work. I really don't have time to notify multiple sites when changes are made on our web site. " When I responded that I never asked to be notified of changes made to any website that I have linked to, and asked if they were asking everyone who had "linked without their permission to remove the links" I received the following responses: 1. "One reason our Genealogical Society is concerned about the tax lists on line is that the (name removed by me) is in the process of publishing the tax lists from 1847-1859 that I edited and prepared for publication. These books will be for sale and if they aren't already out, soon will be. There is a possibility that we may need to remove these tax lists at least temporarily. While our local Genealogical Society has been VERY cooperative with our website and are in fact, quite proud of it, they are justifiably concerned about any loss of sales with anything we put on the net. Loss of sales must be protected." 2. "The Archive Coordinators did ask for permission before putting our cemetery links in the Archives. They have permission to have what they have in the archives. We did not grant anyone else that permission." My concern is not over losing the link, it is only one link out of 4,900 -- my concern is that my site is being singled out, that other sites that have links to this site, including Census-Online, On Line Census, Cyndi's List and Interment.net, are not being asked to remove their links. I have repeatedly asked this site owner why Censuslinks is being singled out and they have refused to answer the question. What would you do? Christine Charity Christine's Genealogy Website http://ccharity.com The Freedmen's Bureau Online http://freedmensbureau.com Censuslinks on the Internet http://censuslinks.com

I think I know the answer to this. But, just wanted to confirm. I have a mail list that some people have been posting complete obituaries and excerpts from books on. They are quoting the source. Should they be posting a message instead that they have this if anyone is interested. And, then sending to the individual people who ask for it. Or, if they give the details, but summarize it, is it okay to post the list? Thank you for any advice. Patty [email protected]

At 08:44 AM 11/4/99 EST, you wrote: >I have started a new site for newspaper abstracts and had decided to limit >the items I upload to newspapers in the US dated before 1923. By doing so I >am able to avoid any copyright issues. I now have had numerous requests to >add other countries. How do I go about determining what the copyright laws >are for Canada, Europe, Australia, etc without hiring a copyright lawyer? The provisions of the United States copyright code extends to works first published in other countries. This was established by treaty developed at the Universal Copyright Convention. The text of that treaty may be found in the background explanation for 17 USC Sec. 104, Subject matter of copyright: National origin. You can get to that information by on my "Linked Index to the U.S. Copyright Code" on my copyright site. The index is at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~mikegoad/html/code.htm Then click on the link for Sec. 104... I'm not sure about how it applies to length of copyright applicability, though, for works published in other countries. I've not pursued that avenue of study. Hopefully, this will help get you started. Mike

On 4 Nov 99, at 8:44, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > I have started a new site for newspaper abstracts and had decided to > limit the items I upload to newspapers in the US dated before 1923. > By doing so I am able to avoid any copyright issues. I now have had > numerous requests to add other countries. How do I go about > determining what the copyright laws are for Canada, Europe, Australia, > etc without hiring a copyright lawyer? > Australia http://www.copyright.org.au/ If you are after a decent Australian and New Zealand search engine for some webpages with other info try http://www.anzwers.com.au > Have a great day, > Barbara Freeman > http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~newspapr > Regards Andrew

I have started a new site for newspaper abstracts and had decided to limit the items I upload to newspapers in the US dated before 1923. By doing so I am able to avoid any copyright issues. I now have had numerous requests to add other countries. How do I go about determining what the copyright laws are for Canada, Europe, Australia, etc without hiring a copyright lawyer? Have a great day, Barbara Freeman http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~newspapr

At 05:50 PM 10/16/99 EDT, [email protected] wrote: > Knowing that anything published before 1923 is >public domain, is it safe to assume that I can transcribe the actual records >in this book as long as I do not include the index Mr. Volkel typed for the >1980 reprint? In my opinion, yes, you can. I would not hesitate a bit. Mr. Volkel put a lot of effort, I am sure, into indexing the book. However, he doesn't own the copyright even to that. The copyright to the index is "Copyright 1980, McDowell Publications." It is evident that he either did the index "for hire" to McDowell Publications or McDowell Publications bought the copyright. The original text was out of copyright even in 1980. The publishers were aware of that fact when they published it. That's why they very specifically identified the index as having a different copyright. I see no reason to try to get an pre-1923 version of a book when the text will not differ one bit. Publishing public domain material does not give the publisher ANY exclusive rights to the material even in the copies that he has published. Once in the public domain, always in the public domain. http://www.rootsweb.com/~mikegoad/html/copyright5.htm Mike Goad

[email protected] wrote: > > In a message dated 99-10-16 21:00:59 EDT, you write: > > << [email protected] > > Hi all, > > New subscriber here. I've been asked for advice about the posting of > obituaries to the GenConnect boards and the concern about copyright. > A specific example is can an obit that's only 10 years old be posted? > >> > > Hi, > We had someone post about 40 obits to the GenConnect boards. We planned on > pulling them off. But contacted the newspaper and they gave us permission! So > I am now going thru each one and putting a statement that it is reprinted > with permission. I know this does not answer your copyright question, but > just letting you know what we did. > > Diane Payne > Thanks for the sensible advice Diane. Simply asking permission and stating that permission is granted seems to me to be the way to go. Should have thought of that myself :) As long as permission is granted (and I imagine that as far as obits go, in general, it probably is) we wouldn't have to be concerned with paraphrasing. Thanks again, Bonnie

Hi all, New subscriber here. I've been asked for advice about the posting of obituaries to the GenConnect boards and the concern about copyright. A specific example is can an obit that's only 10 years old be posted? GenConnect says they do not "endorse the posting of copyrighted material to our pages" but I'm not clear on what is allowable... Can anyone give me direction? Best wishes, Bonnie -- Bonnie (Gallagher) Gilson, Phoenix, AZ mailto:[email protected] http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~bgilson/ ~ RootsWeb Donor ~

At 07:25 PM 10/16/99 EDT, you wrote: > >What I am wanting to do is transcribe the information that appeared >in the 1900 version which Mr. Volkel does not have copyright on but which did >appear in his 1980 reprint along with his additions Can you get your hands on a copy of the 1900 book? If so, the question is moot. You can just work from that and forget about the new one. If you are working with the original, the fact that someone else has reprinted it has no bearing on what you are doing. Glenn