I should qualify my information. I'm drawing from one man's work. He credits several other people and/or publications for some of his information. His work seems to be well researched. But, keep in mind that his book is not the gospel of Copeland/Coplen genealogy. I found my Copeland in Herman's book and what he states there has been easy to prove and mesh into my records. According to Herman, the first two children born to the immigrant couple in Virginia, were William and John. Herman takes John not one step further. Generation by generation have Johns and Williams to say nothing of the James name. According to the story of this particular batch of Copelands (there were many more), they came with a group. Quoting from Herman: "A land patent was issued to Sir Thomas Luntsford on 24 October 1650 for 3,423 acres 'lying on a bay on the south side of the Rappahannock River' for the 'transport of 65 persons' including William & Mary Copeland. After 1616, every immigrant to Virginia earned a headright (a right to patent 50 acres of land - 100 acres if he came by 1616) for the person who paid for each immigrant's transportation. Incases of repeated entries into Virginia, several headrights could be legally earned." BTW: Mary must've died not long after they arrived in Virginia, or, so it appears. His second wife, Grace, is supposed to have married William c1666, in VA. We know there were other, perhaps unrelated, Copelands in Virginia. The silversmith in the Williamsburgh shops made copies of a spoon found while excavating a Virginia "dig". The spoon has the makers mark on it: Joseph Copeland. There are no ties to him in Herman's work. Also, there were immigrants into Pennsylvania, other parts of Virginia, and on, and on. I wish I could help you identify where your John & William fit into the Copeland picture. I do wish you Happy Hunting jean