Well I am so happy to tell you that a message was recieved by me concerning a different DNA test done on a different surname in my lineage.Very Informative.This had definite Normandy origin to several different surname variants.And traces a Irish line back too Normandy.Cambo-Norman to be exact. I would like the testing results posted too the list for our enjoyment.If you would like to see my message contact me off list as it doen't pertain to the list except as an example.In that way we can make a better determination as what our options are. keep on-keeping on-never quit. Roger

Ben, To get us going in a more appropriate direction... how about a sort of Roll Call, telling who we have found through the DNA testing. We don't have to use names of the living relatives. I will start. My family has searched for years for our John Cooper, b. abt 1803. The earliest information found on him was record of his marriage to Elizabeth Coggin, Aug 21, 1828. One of our best researchers was going to give up in frustration. I asked him if he would consider doing the DNA testing. He did, and right away we had a perfect match, and remains a perfect match even after doing the 25 marker test. Now, there are 4 perfect matches on the chart, all from lines that we had no way of which we could prove any connection. There are a total of six that match our line in some way. Biology was the only class I almost failed in college. DNA is a foreign language to me, but our research now is being worked in two directions, and we have a lot more help with all of the newly found cousins trying to piece together the puzzle of this family. With the DNA matching, we are now fairly certain that our John was the brother of Ammon Cooper. Both were born in NC and moved into TN and KY. Ammon moved his family north into Iowa, John's children moved into AR. The only one of John's descendants (grandson Joseph,) that moved north, moved to Iowa after the Civil War. I am fairly certain he went up to where his cousins were, and the connection might not have been lost if Joseph had children. He did not. The other DNA matches have connected us to Zacheus, Samuel and Isle Cooper and possibly back even further to an Alexander Cooper of Yorkshire, England in 1628. But right now, I have at least 6 new found cousins - friends, who are all working to help us piece this puzzle together. And just like with any puzzle, looking at it from a different angle might help us find the missing pieces. We are so much farther along now, than we were 3 years ago with no proof that any of these men from NC connected to our Coopers. Thank you Ben, and thank you to all of the Cooper males willing to participate in this new, positive approach to research. The saying "Blood is thicker than water" has new meaning! Kay Cooper Descendant of John Cooper & Elizabeth Coggin > Elisha McDaniel Cooper & Rachel Norman > Henry Preston Cooper & Ella Nora Norman > Chester Britton Cooper & Ivy Madaleine Tyler

Is some one researching this family? It has been brought to my attention that it could possibly match my missing Israel COOPER. Annie in Minnesota 1850 US Census, Williamsburg, Kings, New York. Ancestry.com: p. 98. 407-801 Cooper, Israel 55 M W Clerk Eng " , Ann 55 F W Eng " , Thina 25 M W Eng ____________________________________

Acually with a name like Cooper being an occupationl title, DNA is a very valid way to find out who in the old days were related Now If there WAS a [email protected] list they could all join there and we would not be bothered by it if we were not interested. I was thinking of leaving the list just a minute ago, but since I am planning a Cooper in Oregon meet soon I can't. Dan - in Oregon Genealogy Community www.wvi.com/~wb ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 8:25 PM Subject: [COOPER] List Archives > Alright,enough with the DNA stuff.Way too many wasted messages. > Surnames change with each marriage. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

To the Cooper group. I want to apologize to the entire group for getting aggravated last night. Yes, and I apologize to you too Lois. In explanation, I should have been a little more diplomatic. But you see, I know how much hard work Ben Cooper put into that website and I for one have referred to it many times. It just got to me a little bit that words like worthless and useless were being directed at the website that Ben worked so hard on and that others had inputs to also. Anyway, I do apologize for my outburst which was short. I shut my computer down so I would not be enticed to add insult to injury. Thanks for listening. Ron Thompson, a Cooper descendant. My grandmother was a Cooper from the Louisiana Cooper group out of Vernon parish La. -----Original Message----- From: Lois Franceschi [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 9:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [COOPER] dna and research and questions Excuse me. I thought I was able to make a simple statement without being hit with witty remarks. I guess I really do need to move on. I will submit my unsubscribe now. Enough is enough is enough. Lois ==== COOPER Mailing List ==== We have archives! Search for your COOPER information here..... http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=COOPER ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Thank you, I think not. He died in Clark Co Ky 1819.

With all the Cooper traffic now, I guess I'll put out this info again on my 3rd GGFather John Cooper, B 7 Jul 1775 Baltimore City, Md, M Mary Spurr (B30 Jul 1776 Loudoun Co Va in ..Fayette Co Ky 2 Oct 1800, Moved to Ruckerville KY (Clark Co now) 1801 on 266 acres from father in law Capt Richard Spurr. D 17 Jan 1819 Clark Co Ky. Wife Mary D1 Oct 1873 and/or 31 Aug 1873 Clark Co Ky. Children William Cotton Cooper, Richard S Cooper, James M,Joseph Robert, Isabella Mary, Willaim Cotton Cooper B 23 Mar 1804 M 1st cousin Mariam Embree (next door neighbor). Embree's moved to Mo about 1808 after Lewis and Clark. About 18 Cooper's also moved to Boone's Lick, estab Ft Cooper,etc. I have no siblings, parents,etc on John. Can anyone help me?

I accidentally hit the wrong button. Jeannie :)

In a message dated 3/12/2005 5:52:12 PM Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Guess I'll move on to another surname and forget the Cooper line. Lois That is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I am also researching COOPERs, however, our family is from Kent, England>Canada, U.S.A., Australia, New Zealand. In spite of the fact that it is such a common name, we have successfully connected with many cousins and at this time have about 6,000 descendants of the original couple who married in 1769 in Kent. Being afraid to put info out there to help connect with others would not have helped to make all the connections that we have with living cousins. We do protect ourselves and our families by never posting people born beyond 1900, but we all post families to different areas of the net and that is what has helped to make our tree as complete as we have it at this point. Unfortunately, so far we have not found anyone carrying the COOPER name in the U.S. other than Canadians who further immigrated to the states. The only ones we know of for sure who immigrated directly to the U.S. are the family of my ggrandmother who was a COOPER and who brought her family to the U.S. following her oldest son who had deserted the English Navy and therefore could not stay on English soil. Most of our COOPERs do not seem to have immigrated until the mid 1800s. If anyone has any COOPERs from Kent, England immigrating 1850 or after, I would be interested to hear from then. Of the 6 kids of the second generation all are accounted for except 1 female: Descendants of John Knowles Ives 1 John Knowles IVES 1761 - . +Sarah COOPER aka: Sarah Cooper Ives 1778 - Unknown m: June 27, 1799 Saint Olave's Church, Southwark, Surrey, England d: Unknown and the wife and children of one of the men: Descendants of Jeffrey Cooper 1 Jeffrey COOPER 1775 - 1848 Burial: December 29, 1848 St. Mary's (Church of England) churchyard, Fawkham, Kent County, England . +Sarah RUSSELLS aka: Sarah Russells Cooper 1775 - m: January 25, 1808 Wilmington, Kent, England ( M012531) 2 Samuel COOPER 1808 - 2 Jeffries COOPER 1810 - 2 Richard COOPER 1812 - 1823 Burial: June 11, 1823 Holy Trinity (Church of England) churchyard, Dartford, Kent, England 2 John COOPER 1814 - 1814 Burial: April 28, 1814 St Botolph (Church of England) churchyard, Northfleet, Kent, England 2 James Jeffrey COOPER 1815 - 2 Christopher COOPER 1821 - 1821 Burial: September 13, 1821 Holy Trinity (Church of England) churchyard, Dartford, Kent, England 2 Thomas COOPER 1825 - 1825 Burial: August 04, 1825 Holy Trinity churchyard, Dartford, Kent, England 2 Henry COOPER 1829 - If anyone can connect to these families, we would be very glad to hear from you. Annie in Minnesota

Alright,enough with the DNA stuff.Way too many wasted messages. Surnames change with each marriage.There are many multiple marriages.Cousins married cousins.in my lineage Someone's might line origionate from Kentucky and can be Cherokee Indian another Line from South Dakota might be Sioux.Same surname Religion is just as important as Geographical Area.Methodist quite often married Methodist. Quite often parish records are the only source of records and records prove your line.There are also birth traits that run in families. That are carried by the femele only.and pass on to only females,example is the Celtic Clude.Do you know that the color of the inner eye is a racial pinpointor.?? Are you short or tall because of where your family origionated from.I have dry skin inside my ear canal because my family did not come from a dry climate.I live on the Desert The dry skin flakes mixes with ear wax and I had a lot of problems with my ear until I started oiling them.An old Apache trick. Testing of DNA for racial or any other purpose is the same as cataloging {Native American Family Census Number} This practise is still done today. GENOCIDE is an action rather than a word in the dictionary. If you continue with Genealogy you will surely find Skeletons in your family history.When this happens by all means available let him.she or it out to dance,Who knows.? We may have had the same father,but different mothers......or vice versa. keep on-keeping on-never quit. Roger

please wait.e-mail the list admin.monitor the list for awhile.most abusive people allow there anger to overide there intellect and unsubscribe soon after they FLAME. keep on-keeping on-never quit. Roger

The Y chromosome is passed from father to son. The Y chromosome is not passed from father to daughter. It is not passed from mothers to their children, because it was not passed from their fathers to them. The mitochondrial, or MtDNA, is passed from the mother to children of both sexes, as it was passed to her from her mother and her mother's mother. It is not passed from fathers to daughters or sons, even though it was passed to the father from his mother.

Excuse me. I thought I was able to make a simple statement without being hit with witty remarks. I guess I really do need to move on. I will submit my unsubscribe now. Enough is enough is enough. Lois

Since my cousin Ben has announced that I am his new Co-Administrator of the Cooper Surname DNA Group, I will add my "two-cents worth" to this discussion. By the way, prior to mine and Ben's genetic matching through DNA, I couldn't call him cousin with any confidence. I just knew him to be a kind and considerate fellow researcher in cyber-space that was always willing to help me in my research. Many people are still wary and suspicious of giving a DNA specimen for testing, and even of those that will submit a specimen, many are very cautious about giving out personal information. It is all kind of tied-in with identity theft scares, and the suspicion that someone will do wild and crazy things with their DNA. Some people are afraid of "Big Brother" watching and taking an interest. Because of all the above, the DNA testing service providers such as Family Tree DNA, and others, are extremely protective of each individual's privacy. They will only share their email addresses with other participants whom they match, and not even that if a participant does not want it shared. The Family Group information that Ben has placed on the website, has been done so with the submitters agreement. Others for reasons of their own have chosen not to publicize that information. The results marker numbers can only be shown associated with a kit number, to insure privacy of the participants. It is much like the "Y-Search" option on the Family Tree DNA Website, or another website known as YBase. The value in the numbers to participants is seeing how many markers different from their own, other participants are. I agree that it is counter-productive to other researchers to go to the expense of taking the tests, and then not sharing family data with others. It seems to defeat the purpose. Regards, Gary [email protected] Gary W. Cooper Group Co-Administrator Cooper Surname DNA Project

Lois, These tests will never show that you match an ancestor by name. They only show if your series of numbers matches another donor's series of numbers. If you get a match in your number series, then you probably have a relative. They will, hopefully, be glad to share with you what they know of their ancestry, and you will share withe them what you know, and you well may come up with a common ancestor. It is a good thing. Keep the Faith, Barbara

You said your mother was a Cooper. That means her mother's maiden name was probably not Cooper. The MtDNA will test your donor through their mother's mother's mother's line, not through the donor's mother's father's line. If you think Y chromosome lines are hard to nail down, its easier to nail jello to the wall than to identify MtDNA lines specifically.

Unfortunately, you cannot trace the Y chromosome back through the female line of Coopers because it is only passed down through the male lines.

Lois, Does your DNA contributor have any matches? If so, write to them. If not, wait till you get one, and then correspond with them. They will know things you don't, and undoubtedly you will be able to add to their knowledge base as well. Is your ancestor Jehugh Cooper from Hardin County, Tennessee? Barbara

I have been reading all these emails re:DNA testing. I have a male ancestor I have traced back to 1824 in New York state. What do DNA tests cost and where does one go to get it done. Does it sound feasible for me? How can one see the lines already discovered?Thank you for your help. Helen T. Zibit, St. Louis. My mother was a Cooper.