MGC: === -R: You would want to make a proper list of all the primary info I am putting out, and make sure to mark out the ones I point out to be short listed as probable ancestors [*] of yours. So far, many Collens stem from London out to Essex. From long back posts, we know Abraham Markham of EC is connected to the PRENTICE family there. We also know that Abraham Markham + Jas Markham Weaver are never far away from each other, even in all lists they are always just a few names apart, both of their marriages are on the same page in the register entry book, [JM m:11-10-1632; AM m:27-06-1633], and that both JM + AM had some feud to one and the same person from Colchester I think it was, and that there must be further associations between these families. We also know the surname of Collens will be variously spelt in London such as Collins, Collyns, etc., and that a huge contingent of this Collens family will be found in this [L1] area of London, we seem to come back here every single time. The item that catches my eye first is this one: [*****1] [Q/SR 41/72 Recognizance: John COLLENS [Collyn] of St. Margaret Pattens, London, goldsmith, John Prentice and Robert Buntynge [Buntinge] of Colne-Engaine, husbandman, for the said John COLLENS to keep the peace towards Hugh Polleye of the same and William Isack of Alphamstone, Henry Clarcke of Lamarsh, John Fynche of Colne Engaine, and John Kebell [Keble] of Chappel, all husbandmen. [See 41/84]. 10 September 1572.] Well, St. Margaret Pattens, London is in the L1 region of London, if you are in Old Broad Street, take a sharp L into Threadneelde, a sharp R into Bishopgate, becomes Gracechurch Street, take a sharp L into Eastcheap Street, and down a bit to the R is the church. Nearby is also Saint Martin Orgar and Saint Clement Eastcheap churches. [*****1][Make good note of this one !!!]: This one has to be one of yours (!!!). John Collens Goldsmith of London. There is John Prentice of Colne Engaine near Braintree in Essex (!!!). What I like here is that this is a prequil to EC being dated 1572 in London. Here is also John Fynche of Colne Engaine (!!!). Dale, you are called: We need to know more of all of these people mentioned here, and who exactly is this John Collens, we know Martha Collins' father is probably in London for at least a period of time, but TL suggests that this John Collens would only be grandfather/uncle at the least. Whatever. But what this does tell me is a clear link of Collens to the correct families in EC, specifically John Prentice. Keep in mind the 2 John Collens from Bramford in Suffolk are not yet clearly defined as the same person, it has been assumed, but the one is clearly a 'sailcloth maker'. Well, looking at my tree, one John Prentice m. [Elizabeth Turner] did he not ?, and she is the sister of [Alice Turner] who m. Abraham Markham ?. TL suggests that this John Prentice is the grandfather of the John Prentice who m. [Elizabeth Turner], probably going to be right ?. The inbetween Prentice person might be [Valentine Prentis] ?. http://books.google.co.za/books?id=KO1ceziscVgC&pg=PA723&dq=Prentice+Colne+Engaine&lr=&as_brr=3&cd=7#v=snippet&q=Prentice&f=false John Prentice d:1620 and has a son John Prentice b:20-08-1618. He d:Abt. 1640 ?. After his father dies, [Elizabeth Turner] m2: [Bartholomew Clarke (Tailor)] and has John, Elizabeth, and Joan Clarke. === http://books.google.co.za/books?id=HJt_9gaMjcgC&pg=PA121&dq=John+Prentice+Colne+Engaine&lr=&as_brr=3&cd=1#v=onepage&q=John%20Prentice%20Colne%20Engaine&f=false The [William Isack of Alphamstone] is probably linked to [Christopher Isack of EC]. === Little Laver in Essex is where some Collens are, and this is where the John Locke comes from. Some let us look at the list at a glance to see anything of interest: [*] D/AEW 18/317 Will of Elizabeth COLLENS of Little Laver, widow 1629 [*] === [*] Q/SR 345/89 Recognizance of Thomas French, John Chaulke and William COLLENS, all of Braintree gents.; French (as in 88). 1650. OK, here is a Thomas French alongside William Collens of Braintree, this William Collens should be part of your tree -R (!!!), add him to your notes, and here is one Thomas French, possibly the father/brother/close to the john French chap in MA (!!!). === [*] ANNE COLLINS Spouse: HENRY WILSON Marriage: 03 MAR 1633 Saint Martin Orgar And Saint Clement Eastcheap, London, England. I would add this one too to your list. === Apothecary: http://books.google.co.za/books?id=YcAtAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA3&dq=meaning:+apothecary&lr=&as_brr=3&cd=6#v=onepage&q=meaning%3A%20apothecary&f=false I think there will be a much larger picture coming into play here on medical matters, and this William Collens 'Apothecary' seems to mean one who mixes medicines, has a shop, maybe something like a 'Pharmacist' ?. [***] Q/SR 241/44 Recognizances of Edward Lade "Keemer", William COLLENS apothecary, both of Braintree, and Edward Archer of Bocking husbandman; Lad to keep the peace towards Christopher Harwoode of Braintree butceh... 1623. Apart from Martha Collins and Edward Collins, there is at least one other branch of this Collins family around Braintree + EC it seems. [*] D/DMq/T2/16 Assignment of Mortgage [consideration not stated] (i) John Nash; (ii) Thomas Collins, both citizens and vintners of London; (iii) Arthur Harris of E. Farley (co. Kent), clerk, and John Mason of... 1697. [Maybe place on a list for future reference ?]. === Mawdlen Collins Spouse: William Kirkall Marriage: 14 APR 1561 Saint Martin Orgar And Saint Clement Eastcheap, London, England. === [***** *****] [Q/SR 41/72 Recognizance: John COLLENS [Collyn] of St. Margaret Pattens, London, goldsmith, John Prentice and Robert Buntynge [Buntinge] of Colne-Engaine, husbandman, for the said John COLLENS to keep the peace towards Hugh Polleye of the same and William Isack of Alphamstone, Henry Clarcke of Lamarsh, John Fynche of Colne Engaine, and John Kebell [Keble] of Chappel, all husbandmen. [See 41/84]. 10 September 1572.] I am changing this to 10*'s. The [Henry Clarcke of Lamarsh] is probably the grandfather or close of [Bartholomew Clarke (Tailor)] the second husband of [Elizabeth Turner of EC] who m1 to the grandson of the John Prentice mentioned above. This John Collens is flowing and working like clock work in [Speculation Mode] for me. Daniel Collins Merchant of London m. the dg of a Goldsmith. Whatever the exact case, this John Collens links directly to John Prentice of CE who must be the grandfather of Abraham Markham's wife's sister Elizabeth Turner who m. John Prentice 'Yeoman'. [John Collens [Collyn] of St. Margaret Pattens, London, Goldsmith]: Dale: Place this chap as the primary person to look into further. He will move about I think, but at least we have found him (!!!). It is time to include Abraham Markham family in this search now too. This seems to be AM's connection to Collens + Prentice from London. The common factor is this John Collens Goldsmith of London.... The 'Salters of London' are not yet in the picture, but their TL is just back 1-2 notches if they ever do fit in, but not yet. But we want 'RICH' Collens, which is what we have here. To -R: You are too negative, so from today I am calling you +R. Either way, one day or another, you will have to compile a full set of London records for Collins, etc. I suggest no you, but maybe someone can assist you to start a book to extract all, and I mean ALL of the London records for any Collins spelling for all, or at least, but not less than that, for this L1 area of London. You need to compile the list/book by church (!!!), it has to be done for your tree and surname. I would start off by a simple text file, I have an excellent text program if you want it. - S.K.M. - [!!!] ============