MGC: [Speculative Post]: I want to go into my next phase of this search for Markham. I am waiting to see which is the next list I am going to join up on. It should be Prentice at least. +R- you might want be on the MARKHAM-UK list if not already to follow posts I won't be sending to this list. Follow me wherever I go. To DDM'ers, make sure to keep this page for Prentice etc. http://www.prenticenet.com/news/2001/henry_prentice_wigenhall_england.htm [m:1668 Elizabeth MARKHAM & Daniel YEOMAN Gt Totham]. Here I clearly do not know at all just yet, but ... ... I am going to place this one as ''probably'' the same person as the dg of Abraham? Markham of Earls Colne (EC) with a full [???] on the link. The Prentice family is clearly connected to Great Totham in Essex, and for some time it seems. Elizabeth Markham would be going there more than likely via a Prentice family connection. We will be going into whole sets of completely different name patterns compared to the NL Markhams lines. These would eventually become the standard naming patterns and one would get used to them like old hat, one day ... This connection here looks about right. TL is perfect. I suspect the url for Prentice family is going to be the correct Prentice dna family line so far. We will find that in the region of grandchildren still being closely connected to grandchildren from another line etc. This would be close for it to be like that. Close family ties. Nothing unusual about that I suppose. In the last week I have put out that the names of Valentine - Daniel - Clement - even Nicholas and Susan, are fine for this arena. There was a Bishop Valentine I think. Here we go: Abraham Markham m. Alice Turner [EC], her father was Clement Turner [EC], her sister Elizabeth Turner [EC] and ET m. John Prentice. John Prentice's parents are Valentine Prentis of [Felstead Essex] b:1561 and d:1605 and his wife is Marie Luke of [Felstead Essex] m:15-01-1585 at [Felstead, Essex, England] it seems. This [Valentine Prentis 1561] dies in 1605. His father is given to be [John Prentis b:1540 d:1597] + mother [Elizabeth Harrod]. This [Valentine Prentis 1561] has THE son [Valentine Prentis b:02-1598/9 d:1633] who m. [Alice Bredda]. [Valentine Prentis b:02-1598/9 d:1633] dies in 1633 in [Roxbury MA]. [!!!]. [Valentine Prentis 1561] + [Elizabeth Harrod] also have a son [Daniell Prentice of Felstead Essex]. You can look the rest up etc. and so on.... For this Prentice family any connection to Great Totham would be huge (!!!). === For now, using this Prentice tree, one can make maybe as a focal starting point like Collens tree, to [Wigenhall Norfolk] which is near King's Lynn. The immediate Prentice line is in Felstead Essex. I do not know the exact primary record, but the [Francis Prentice Felstead Essex b:05-1605] is either in the correct place or dg of the son John Prentice ?. [John Prentis] the elder d:1597 it seems, so she would then be dg of JP the Jnr ?. I don't know to what extent this will apply further here just yet, if the case at all ?. This Collens and Markham and Prentice trees will have these far apart naming marriage connections at first it seems. There is also a large Bacon-Ward connection it seems about this TL. At this TL, the Prentice family is going into London, and to Collens and Prentice and even Buntinge to Earls Colne etc. Remember Buntinge a bit too... [21-06-1635: Clement Prentice of Stoke Ash Suffolk, yeoman, to Richard Pretyman of Narford, Gent., on property in Stoke Ash, Braiseworth and Thornham in Suffolk.] http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=REG&db=hendersonscholes&id=I20780 With these Valentine Prentiss you with also find a connection to Black Notley a huge Collens domain. Or thereabouts .... [Exception Note]: There has to be a much greater all round connections to CLARK (!!! !!! !!!) etc. === Title: ''Who killed Who, and let that be the Question'', or alternatively placed as, ''A Day in the Life of John Collens'': [Specs]: I must just end off by saying the following: I still feel the need to come back here again. I gave the texts out in my last posts. >From here immediate, I need to go back and check my notes: I did say that the John Collens Goldsmith of London had a son John Collens (!!!). [COLLINS John Braintree, killed in Bocking by Jn Noke 1565]***. [NOKE John Stisted, 23, killed Jn Collins in fight 1565]***. [277. Taken on 13 December 7 Eliz., at Braintree, before Thomas Knott, coroner, on view of the body of John Noke, aged 23 years. The jurors seek a day until 30 March at Chelmsford. the jurors say that in windmill field, 12 Dec., John collins of Braintree was at Bicking in the house of William Garett about the business of Thomas Collins his father. Then came John Noke of Stisted and they quarrel about some words spoken by John collins about John Noke earlier. And Noke said: `Thowe boye use the wespon yf thowe be a man as thowe boastest thieself for I will fight with the and be revenged of me. Praye the content thyself and a touchinge the malice thowe beareat me from last playing together att the backword play ... 1 praye the forget for I tell the for my parte from henaforth I will have nothing to do with the. But if thow will be a good fellow and go drink I Will give yt the'. Neverthelese they fought. John Collyns murdered John Noke. Date From 1563-1564.] ***: This must be a website typing error (!). The primary ref. clearly states : [''John Collyns murdered John Noke'']. After reading this again (and again !!!), this [John Collyns] living 1564 and son of ['Thomas Collins his father'], and of great note, ['of Braintree'], already, ... , quite probably sways to the Thomas Collins Alderman of London near in actually in Old Broad Street etc. Cheers - S.K.M. - [!!!] ===================