MGC: http://books.google.co.za/books?ei=D8HES_iaN87t-Qbx7KDUDg&ct=result&id=UEtnAAAAMAAJ&dq=John+Collins+citizen+salter+London&q=Ipes-+wiche There is a somewhat well-known John Collins with his brother Richard who are L:1574, that make sail cloths etc., and I think these were for the Royal Navy. I suspect this should the John Collyn who m. Alice Birde ?. This Birde surname is more likely to be spelt Bird-Birde-Burde-Beard?. [Martha Collyn Chr.: 16 MAR 1599 Woolpit, Suffolk, England. Father: John Collyn Mother: Alice Birde.]. This John Collyn is having his first offspring about the same year the other John Collins from Bramford dies. We know Sibill Colenes who m. Henery Linch in London must be the sister of Martha Collins of EC, and that Sibilla Collens chr.:24-05-1604 St. Botolph Bishopsgate London the dg of Johne Collens, should be her. We are looking for a Martha Collins dg of one John Collins, b:1590-1611 or so. I recall it was about TL:1574 or so, that the other John Collins who clobbered that John Noke chap was it?, went to Colchester was it? for his trial, and here it sounds like these chaps are on some bail?, and a licence for 21 years from 1574 (=1595!!!). One thing we clearly do not know for sure just yet, is who the John Collins brother of Daniel Collins Merchant is !!!. The purpose of this email is to start looking at every single Martha Collins who is dg of any John Collins for this TL, but they are not many. = Woolpit, Suffolk. (Pakenham): chr. COLLYN Ann John 8 Sep 1594 chr. COLLYN Alice John 20 Mar 1596 chr. COLLYN John John 27 Dec 1598 b. COLLYN John s. John 7 May 1599 chr. COLLYN Martha John 16 Mar 1599 chr. COLLYN Elizabeth John 25 Feb 1603 chr. COLLYN Thomas John 10 May 1607 m. COLLIN Agnes HARRIE Gilbert 27 Jul 1617 m. COLLIN Alice BRAME William 18 Nov 1628 H? COLLIN George WRIGHT Abigail 5 May 1636 chr. COLLIN John George & Abigail 7 Jan 1637 chr. COLLIN Richard George & Abigail 26 Apr 1640 b. COLLEN Abigail 6 Jan 1681 b. COLLEN George 1 May 1683 H? COLLEN Benjamin SEATON Elizabeth 24 Oct 1683 H? COLLINS Samuel SADD Katherine 3 Aug 1708 = It seems this Markham of EC is certainly not coming from Essex at all. You still have the right DDM though it seems. Goldsmiths could also be Trumpet Makers too, but termed as Goldsmiths. Dale: What exactly is a 'Salter' ?. I suppose a Salter of meat like beef or fish ?. [Specs]: Top of my head here only: I ''think'' there are 3 Salters, one b. well before 1500 for Bredstreete, and 2 later ones, I 'think' are John + Thomas? Collins, that John Collins who clobbered John Noke I ''think'' was the son of one Thomas Collins ?. - S.K.M. - [!!!] ===============