From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Coats- Ward - Freeman connection Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:35:19 EDT Charlotte, Read your "Coats Blueprints." on Anc. and your page history. I think I understand now why there has been much speculation around our family as to the Indian American connection to my Ward family. There was a Thomas Freeman that married Rachel Coatts 1792 Wake Co., NC. Thomas' brother Richard Freeman married Ellender Yates 1794 in Sumner Co., TN. Samuel Freeman "of Wake Co., NC" (another brother) sold land in Sumner Co., TN in 1800. An Elisha Freeman "of Hardin Co., KY" sold some horses 1805 in Sumner Co., TN. Parts of Sumner Co., became Robertson Co., TN. Elisha Freeman Will dated 1818 Hardin Co., KY sons: Elisha, Thomas, Richard and Samuel. I am from the Richard Freeman line and his son married Margaret "Peggy" Ward, daughter of John and Mary Medole or McDowell. From an IL family history, John Ward Died 1811 in Logan Co., KY. I have his Will and also the papers from Sumner Co., TN on Richard, Samuel and Elisha Freeman. Do you know if your William Coats 1774-1836 would have had a sister Rachel? I noticed that he had a daughter Rachel was also connected to Sumner Co., TN before going to MO. Appreciate your reply and am willing to share documents and information. Thank you for posting your information. Linda Elieff FL. _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

I've updated the word document on the SC Time line with the info on the Coarts/Coats out of Frederick County MD...I don't think that Charles in MD is the same as the Charles in SC who goes to GA since Charles of SC shows up in GA with sons James and William, and Charles in MD has sons James and Notley listed in the tax records...Charles in SC also shows up there in about 1770 and Notley doesn't show up in SC until about 1784 which would fit with the MD records...and the Charles in MD shows up in the tax records/Census records of MD in 1776 - I suppose Charles and William of SC could be older brothers to Notley and James, but nothing in the records thus far suggests that...although they probably are related in some way.... We also have two new members to our DNA project, they have not returned their tests yet, but have ordered them...not sure who their ancestors are yet...but will let you know... It also appears test results are slow coming back from AZ, so if you're interested in doing the DNA project, get your test kit in early 'cause it will be awhile before the results come back....:) Char _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

After reading my posting regarding the Sarah Coates/Penrose/Faulkner/Dutton an interested list member contacted me regarding information listed in their records that differed by one year when compared to the date I was listing. This resulted in a bit of research and additional discoveries that might interest someone else on the list so I am sharing a portion of the correspondence.... ----------------------- "So I'm not sure what is causing the years difference in the books - perhaps it is a printing error in one of the publications. But more likely it was caused by the change from the Julian Calendar to the Gregorian Calendar. Here are several sites that explain it better than I can since it always adds to my confusion... http://www.crowl.org/Lawrence/time/britgreg.html http://www.genealogytoday.com/columns/recipes/tip14.html http://www.genfair.com/dates.htm http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~hornbeck/misc.htm I did notice the same one year difference between Thomas Penrose's Tombstone Inscription in Christ Church Cemetery (on Ancestry.com) which listed his death as November 17, 1758 (aged 48 yrs) but in Philadelphia Wills (on Ancestry.com) his will was written 11/8/1757 and proved 12/22/1757. In the actual book covering Records of Christ Church - Thomas Penrose is shown with a date of death of November 17, 1757. Another oddity listed in the online Tombstone Inscriptions is that it appears that buried with Thomas Penrose is "Sarah his wife who departed this life July 7th 1777 aged 63 years and 3 months" (even though she married twice after his death). I think our downfall is having to rely on transcriptions offered by other's who are able to visit the sites offering original documentation but with the calendar change during certain periods even original documentation is subject to adjustment." -----------------------------

David, could you possibly take a scan of the DNA results listed on this page and give us a yay or nay, if you match any of them... http://www.rootsquest.com/~coatsfar/coatsarchive/dna.htm Thanks....:) Char _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/

I have submitted dna for profiling with a company known as Oxfordshire Ancestors. Our line has been traced as far back as one of the ancient northern tribes, who probably originally came to England with invading Romans. I have recently been contacted by someone of Berwick origin who shares my dna profile. On visiting Scotland recently, I discovered that the name Coates has been closely associated with the Clan Farquharson, who supported Charles Stuart during the Jacobite Rebellion. I have yet to establish a link with this particular group of the Coates's. I just thought that there may at some stage be someone researching this particular line of enquiry, who might find this interesting. Any one who feels that this may be relevant is welcome to compare my dna. Kind Regards David Coates - Oxfordshire

For those of you relying at least in part on the transcriptions offered by Ancestry.com (as I do) I thought you would be interested in a correction that should be added to your records. In the Ancestry.com Philadelphia, PA Wills database it shows - as do the Genweb archives listing PA will abstracts and some Coats family trees online. Date: 7 12 1754 Prove Date: 20 3 1760 BookPage: L:409 John Coats. City of Philadelphia. Brick maker. Dec. 7, 1754. March 20, 1760. L.409. Children: Warrick, Isaac, Rebecca Shute, Abraham, John, Jane Knox, Sarah Penrose, Mary Dutton and Hannah Dennis. Sons-in-Law: Richard Dewees Penrose and Thomas Shute. Grandchild: George Wright. Trustee: Thomas Say. Exec: All of his children. There should be NO "Richard Dewees Penrose" in the listings - the correct name was Richard Dennis (h/o Hannah Coates) - it was simply difficult to understand due to penmanship. See Char's site for a copy of the original will to read for yourself. With that realized I have revised my listings for Sarah Coates d/o John Coates & Mary Hale of Philadelphia, PA to read... Sarah Coates married first to - ~Thomas Penrose on October 21, 1731 Thomas Penrose is listed in the PA marriage records, in the will of brother in law Richard Wright, in various Christ Church records, in his 1757 will he lists wife Sarah and surviving children Thomas, James, Isaac, Samuel & Jonathan - in John Coats 1754/60 will he does not seem to offer a given name for his son in law "Penrose". According to various records they had about 11 children - second marriage to - ~Lester Faulkner on March 1, 1764 Lester Faulkner's will of 1766 lists wife Sarah and a daughter from his previous marriage. married thirdly to - ~Anthony Duche on April 24, 1770 Anthony Duche is mentioned in the 1784 will of Isaac Penrose - he names brothers Thomas, Samuel & Jonathan then Clement s/o brother James and mother Sarah now wife of Anthony Duchi.

Of interest... ----Original Message Follows---- From: Russell Baker <[email protected]> Reply-To: Russell Baker <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ARCHIVES] Use Fees (publication of whole documents) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 12:25:06 -0500 Gordon: I have been to several religious archives and local historical society archives that charged use fees. At one there was no charged to use the guides to the collections but if the archivist had to pull any material of any kind a fee of $5.00 was charged for that item. The next item was also $5.00, etc. At an other institution there was about a $5.00 use fee per day to use the facility itself. This fee got you the help of the director of the archives. I was very willing to pay each fee because the archives had material unavailable elsewhere. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Russell P. Baker, CA Archival Manager Arkansas History Commission and State Archives One Capitol Mall Little Rock, AR 72201 501-682-6900 www.ark-ives.com [email protected] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: Archives & Archivists [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gordon Daines Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 9:08 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Use Fees (publication of whole documents) Colleagues, My department chair has asked me to look into the issue of use fees and manuscript materials-particularly use fees when someone is requesting to publish a whole document (i.e. editing a diary or autobiography for publication). I have searched various websites and found almost nothing on this subject. There are a lot of use fee policies for photographs and digital images (We already have a good use fee structure for photographs and digital images). Does your institution have a policy regarding use fees on manuscript collections and if so, what are some sample charges? I appreciate any help that you can give me. Gordon Daines ____________________ J. Gordon Daines III University Archivist Brigham Young University 1130 HBLL Provo, UT 84602 [email protected] (801) 422-5821 A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org. For the terms of participation, please refer to http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [email protected] In body of message: SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname *or*: UNSUB ARCHIVES To post a message, send e-mail to [email protected] Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html Problems? Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[email protected]> A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org. For the terms of participation, please refer to http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [email protected] In body of message: SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname *or*: UNSUB ARCHIVES To post a message, send e-mail to [email protected] Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html Problems? Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[email protected]> _________________________________________________________________ Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to ‘Dig Yourself Out of Debt’ from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx

You know...putting these old records online couldn't possibly be any more expensive than building new buildings...and by the way, the National Archive Regional here in Laguna Niguel is getting a new building built out south of San Bernardino I think it is... I guess that's what they need the $40.00 fee from our records for....:) ----Original Message Follows---- From: Edward Gaynor <[email protected]> Reply-To: Edward Gaynor <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: [ARCHIVES] University of Virginia Library Special Collections Closing Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 13:27:00 -0400 Due to construction-related delays in the move to our new building, the University of Virginia Library Special Collections will now be CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC THROUGH SUNDAY, AUGUST 22. We will reopen most services in the new Harrison/Small building on MONDAY, AUGUST 23. Please visit the new building’s website at http://lib.virginia.edu/newlib for more information. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. For questions about specific services, please contact [email protected] Edward Gaynor Associate Director Special Collections Department Alderman Memorial Library P.O. Box 400110 University of Virginia Charlottesville, VA 22904-4110 (434) 924-3138 (434) 924-4968 fax [email protected] http://www.lib.virginia.edu/speccol/ A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org. For the terms of participation, please refer to http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [email protected] In body of message: SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname *or*: UNSUB ARCHIVES To post a message, send e-mail to [email protected] Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html Problems? Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[email protected]> _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

Well, they may be able to research the 20th and 21 century...but unless they Archives are willing to put their records online...they will reach a brick wall at this point....:) ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Curtis A. Lyons" <[email protected]> Reply-To: "Curtis A. Lyons" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: [ARCHIVES] Virginia Commonwealth Univ. outreach project Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 15:22:08 -0400 I will shortly be sending a position announcement for this NHPRC-funded project but thought some of you not in the market for a new job might be interested, so here is our press release as an introduction. This project is based on Northeastern University's NHPRC-funded Under-documented Communities project. NHPRC awards $160,700 grant to VCU Libraries for community outreach The VCU Libraries is pleased to announce that it has received $160,700 in grant funding from the National Historical Publications and Records Commission (NHPRC) to expand its Archives of the New Dominion community outreach initiative. Under the terms of the grant, the VCU Libraries will work with African-American, Hispanic-American, Gay and Lesbian, and Women's activist communities in Richmond and Central Virginia to record and preserve the work of their organizations and key individuals. The funding provided to VCU was one of the NHPRCs largest 2004 grants, and is the largest amount ever given to a Virginia institution for a records access project. As part of the Archives of the New Dominion, this grant initiative will fill a critical gap in historical resources available to future students and scholars. With a few exceptions, historians studying the minority and activist communities of 20th century Central Virginia must rely largely on secondary sources and demographic data. This project will ensure researchers a wide scope of resources and evidence to draw from in their research. While this effort will be important to future scholars, it also will benefit the local community and the State as a whole. The projects long-range goal is to allow the heirs of todays communities access to their own history to better understand how that history helped forge the world in which they live. By initiating this effort now, the persons and organizations that have played a key role in the 20th century Richmond urban and Central Virginia experience will be able to document and preserve their history directly. This project forms part of the VCU Libraries Archives of the New Dominion initiative, which brings together records that current and future scholars will use in their research of 20th and 21st century Richmond and Central Virginia. The materials in the collection focus on, but are not limited to, the social and cultural history of the metropolitan region and are part of the Special Collections and Archives Department of the James Branch Cabell Library. Among the issues and movements, which are already represented in the collection, are Civil Rights, Women's Suffrage, suburbanization, attempts to revitalize the downtown area, and the development of the Richmond Symphony. More information on the Special Collections and Archives department, including lists of collections and on-line exhibits can be found online at (www.library.vcu.edu/jbc/speccoll/speccoll.html). The NHPRC is the grant-funding arm of the National Archives and Records Administration. It awards grants annually to libraries and museums "to ensure understanding of our nation's past by promoting, nationwide, the identification, preservation, and dissemination of essential historical documentation." More information on the NHPRC can be found online at (www.archives.gov/grants/index.html). Curtis Lyons VCU Libraries A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org. For the terms of participation, please refer to http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [email protected] In body of message: SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname *or*: UNSUB ARCHIVES To post a message, send e-mail to [email protected] Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html Problems? Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[email protected]> Need Records? http://stores.ebay.com/Pages-through-Time I support Web Access to Archive Records The petition can be viewed and signed at this address: http://www.petitiononline.com/ethan/ ______________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

----Original Message Follows---- Subject: Fw: 1740 Dental Care Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 13:07:04 -0700 Subject: 1740 Dental Care "1740 Dental Care Use a good tooth powder once a week or once every two weeks for unclean teeth. But the mouth should be rinsed daily after eating with fresh water and scoured with the finger. The tooth powder should not be composed of all rough or all sharp things such as tobacco ashes, powdered coral, pumice stone or brick but should also contain smoothe things such as prepared oyster shell, chalk made from mussels, with a lot of seasoning and flavoring. Another recommends burned hartshorn, powdered oyster shell and white tartar. Also a mouthwash of sal ammoniac and water. Another uses cream of tartar, gum myrrh and oil of cloves. And if all this good dental care fails, you may get a set of artificial ones made from the tusks of the hippotamus, or sea horse, or from the teeth of some domestick [sic.] animals. Teeth made of ivory or bone soon become discoloured and begin to decay and render the breath offensive." Source: 1970 Bulletin of the Montgomery Co. Historical Society. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

Go for it Char! Gup >Ok folks, I got a cell phone number for him...anyone want to call, if I >call, anyone want to send any messages?? > >I don't want to post his cell phone to the list...but I thought I'd give >him a call unless someone else wants to do the honors ....:) > >Char

Ok folks, I got a cell phone number for him...anyone want to call, if I call, anyone want to send any messages?? I don't want to post his cell phone to the list...but I thought I'd give him a call unless someone else wants to do the honors ....:) Char _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

Well, we got a response here....:) Dr. Stamper has sent it on to the Patient Rep....:) Will let you know... Char -----Original Message----- From: Stamper, David H Dr BAMC-Ft Sam Houston [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 1:18 PM To: Charlotte Coats; Guerrero, Maria Ms BAMC-Ft Sam Houston Subject: RE: Spec Aaron Coates I am forwarding this to Patient Reps for attention... Dr. Stamper -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Coats [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 2:10 PM To: Stamper, David H Dr BAMC-Ft Sam Houston Subject: Spec Aaron Coates Hi Mr. Stamper, I am a member of the Coates family history group on the web and several in our group had seen the news coverage of Aaron Coates in your burn ward... Is there an email contact for him? We'd like to do something special for him but we're not sure what his needs might be...so by being able to make contact we can find out...:) Anyway, as one of our researchers put it *we need to take care of these Coates Boys*....:) Our best wishes to you all for the fine work you do in TX and also the bravery these young men show over there in Iraq...we love each and everyone of them....:) Charlotte Coats Coats/Coates Family Digital Archive http://www.rootsquest.com/~coatsfar [email protected] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Surfside Internet] Need Records? http://stores.ebay.com/Pages-through-Time I support Web Access to Archive Records The petition can be viewed and signed at this address: http://www.petitiononline.com/ethan/ ______________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. _________________________________________________________________ Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to ‘Dig Yourself Out of Debt’ from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx

More info...thank you Tom!! I'm going to see if I can make contact with him at the hospital...they might relay a message to him...if anyone else finds out anything let me know....:) Char ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Peterson, Thomas To: "'Charlotte Coats'" <[email protected]> Subject: RE: Spec Aaron Coates Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:53:14 -0500 Char, Brooke Army Medical Center or BAMC is in Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio Texas http://www.bamc.amedd.army.mil/ I don't believe they will give you much due to health disclosure thing. He graduated from Bakersfeild High in California. Char here is the article on him from Fresno. http://www.fresnobee.com/local/sv/story/7735978p-8637869c.html I also saw a MAJOR Coats featured on the cover of a military magazine who is in the Special Forces in Iraq. Not sure were he is from. . _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Aaron Coates was seriously burned in Iraq... He is being treated, according to CNN at the Brooke Army Medical Center, not sure but I think that is in Texas... Anyone know what his family connections are? Some folks have suggested we do something special for him...any comments? Char _________________________________________________________________ Discover the best of the best at MSN Luxury Living. http://lexus.msn.com/

FYI.... ----Original Message Follows---- From: Russell Baker <[email protected]> Reply-To: Russell Baker <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: [ARCHIVES] church related census records Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:35:53 -0500 Dear Colleagues: Greetings from the sunny South. This question is directed to our colleagues who work long hours for little pay in church and religious archives. I have been invited to lecture at a national genealogical conference this fall on the subject of using church and religious records as sources for genealogy and local history research information. I already have a great deal of information. However, I have been told that many religious denominations in the U. S. have in their archives records of religious or church censuses taken by their church workers in the past. These records are said to contain a gold mine of potential information about 19th century American families. I have not run across such records in my research. If these are some out there, I would love to have some samples of these records to use in my lecture. Thanks for you help. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Russell P. Baker, CA Archival Manager Arkansas History Commission and State Archives One Capitol Mall Little Rock, AR 72201 501-682-6900 www.ark-ives.com [email protected] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org. For the terms of participation, please refer to http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [email protected] In body of message: SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname *or*: UNSUB ARCHIVES To post a message, send e-mail to [email protected] Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html Problems? Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[email protected]> _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

FYI...this book isn't titled what it's really about...could be interesting reading though...Char ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Helen" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: [G-M] Domesday Book Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:42:45 -0500 RootsWeb: GEN-MAT-L Domesday BookDomesday Book and Beyond: Three Essays in the Early History of England, Frederic William Maitland, 1897, 1966. Illustrated softcover, 5x7-3/4, 527 pages, in very good condition, especially for a softcover of this age, with no loose or dog eared pages, highlighting, underlining, only the introduction has some pencilled notations, and the pages are supple, indexed.Per the covers (The book is a lot better than the reviews!-to my way of thinking, really gives a good understanding of how things were in early day England.) "'In Domesday Book and Beyond...Maitland completely rewrote early English social and economic history and provided the truest picture of English institutions prior to 1066 - from the Introduction by Bryce Lyon.'" And from the back cover: "In 1085 William the Conqueror ordered his officials to collect exact descriptions and accounts of the landed estates throughout his new realm. The information collected resulted in the famous record Domesday Book. Frederick Maitland, a legal historian at Cambridge University at the end of the 19th century, realized that Domesday Book was the key to an understanding of England before the Norman Conquest. In Domesday Book and Beyond, which he described as 'Three Essays in the Early History of England', he used a retrogressive method of approaching his material. He began with the Domesday Book and worked backwards, exploring such other documents as he could find, and from this research reconstructed the social and economic organization of Anglo-Saxon society. Domesday Book and Beyond examines the difference between serfs, villeins, sokemen, and liberi homines and the changes in their condition from Alfred the Great to the Norman period.It looks into Anglo-Saxon urban and rural communities and deals with the 'hide' and why it was important to all questions relating to the land. It concerns itself with the effect of Norman feudalism on Anglo-Saxon institutions.and it gives and interprets all the Domesday statistics...since Domesday Book and Beyond was written, nothing has superceded it..." Contents include: Introduction by Bruce Lyon Preface Essay I. Domesday Book: Plan of the Survey The Serfs The Villeins The Sokemen Sake and Soke The Manor Manor and Vill The Feudal Superstructure The Boroughs Essay II. England Before the Conquest: Book-land and the Land-book Book-land and Folk-land Sake and Soke Book-land and Loan-land The Growth of Seignorial Power The Village Community Essay III. The Hide: Measure and Fields Domesday Statistics Statistical Tables Beyond Domesday This book covers so many things - the size of a perche (or land acreage) as it differed among the different shires of England, the teamland acreage among the shires at different periods, the classes - including those omitted from the Book, the lands allotted to the Lords of the villages and the king's men, etc. This is a book that will give great understanding of the world of our ancestors. It does not do much in the way of names - which in that time period were mostly first names only. This book covers a time period of over 900 years ago. $20 media mail postage paid . . _________________________________________________________________ Discover the best of the best at MSN Luxury Living. http://lexus.msn.com/

Rachel Coats Widow of William Coats late of the Northern Liberties - 1769/1773 Without going into a lengthy search project there seems to be some evidence to support the idea that this couple could be Rachel Dubois and William Coats (second marriages?) as offered on several online family trees --- ---------- http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=gemini&id=I1293 First Presbyterian Church, Philadelphia, PA (marriages) - online & in book 2, 23, 1734, Cotes, William and Rachel Duboys 7, 12, 1737, Dubois, Sarah and Henry Wynkoop 3, 7, 1741, Du boyes Rebekah and Henry VanMeter 6, 52, 1737, Duboy, Katherine and Joseph Hopewell 7, 29, 1743, Hopewell, Kath. and William Miller ====================== Grandson Theobald Ent -- "Pennsylvania Births Philadelphia Co. 1644-1765" by John T. Humphrey Ent, Theobald, 25 Jan 1754 Daniel & Rachel (German Reformed Church in Germantown) ENDT, JNO. Theobald. Phila. Co. Saddler. (will abstract) September 4, 1765. November 17, 1767. Wife: Sibbilla. Children: Daniel, John, Theobald and Mary (wife of George Miller). Grandchildren: Daniel and Charles Endt (sons of Daniel). The Overseers of the poor of Germantown. Execs. Sibbilla Endt and son Theobald. Wit: Thos. Rose, Jno. Miller and Jacob Ritter. O.171. note - 13 Aug 1761 Endt, Mary m. George Miller (PA marriage licenses prior to 1790) - ENT, THEOBALD. Germantown. Co. of Phila. (will abstract) January 9, 1794. March 19, 1794. X.50. Wife: Maria Barbara. Children: John, Charles, Mary, Sarah, Sibilla, George. Exec: Charles Ent, Son-in-Law John Satter. Wit: Christian Duy, Peter Deal. =========================== Son in Law Abraham Sahler and grand daughter Rachel Sahler -- http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=mpapai&id=I003321 "Description: Peikiomen & Skippack Census Abraham von Sahler, miller, 450 acres, 5 children under 21, 3 boundservants, 2 negroes. By the 1776 census he had 929 acres, 1 servant, 2 negroes. In 1793 the real estate of Elizabeth DuBois Sahler (widow of Abraham von Sahler) was divided - a plantation of 338 acres in Perkiomen & Skippack. In 1796 Abraham Jr. (the then eldest son) sold 2 parcels of land for ?350 each: 71 acres, and 47 acres." SAHLER, ABRAHAM. Perkioming, Co. of Phila. Yeoman. (will abstract) April 6, 1778. May 15, 1778. R.65. Wife: Elizabeth. Children: Isaac, Abraham, Elizabeth, Rachel, Catharina,Daniel, John. Sons-in-Law: Robert Pattin, John Gross. Exec: Elizabeth and Abraham Sahler, Francis Gurney. Wit: Frederick Hesser, C---sust[?] Hobner[?]. "Pennsylvania Births Montgomery Co. 1682-1800" by John T. Humphrey Sahler, Rahel 20 Jan 1746 Abraham & Elisabeth (Augustus Evangelical Lutheran Church, Trappe in Upper Provindence Twp.) ========================= Grandson Joseph Hope [well?] Granddaughter Sarah Miller http://awt.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2884353&id=I250 ===================================== ===================================== Linda J. Coate wrote: > > There was also a Rachel Coats, widow to a William Coats, who left > the following will. We have not been able to account for which Rachel > and William Coats this applies to. In other words, it could be this > William Coats and Rachel Ann Budd. Recorded Will book P, p.408. > Her will is transcribe by me as follows: In the Name of God amen the > Sixth day of October in the year of our Lord one thousand Seven > hundred and Sixty nine I Rachel Coats Widow of William Coats late of > the Northern LIberties deceased being very sick & weak in body but of > pefect mind and memory thanks be given unto God for the same and > calling to mind the mortality of my body and knowing that it isa > appointed for all women ( ) to die do make and ordain this my last > Will and Testatment, that is to say, Principally and first of all I > give & recommend my Sole into the hands of God that gave it and ( ) > Body recommend it to the Earth to be buried in tha Christian like and > decent manner at the direction of my Executors Impr( ) I do order > that in the first place (mony) Just debts & funeral charges be paid > and satisfied. And (reaching) much ( ) ( ) Estate wherewith it > ( ) pleased God to Bless me in this life I give devise & disperse of > the Same ( ) and (f ) following: That is today, In the (f ) > I give and bequethed to my dearly beloved Grandson Theobald Ent along > right ( ) and property of what I have at or near mount hally, but in > case the aforsaid Theobald Ent doth not live to the age of one and > twenty years and die without heirs then the above right and property > shall come to my dearly beloved grand daughter Rachel Sahler and > likewise all my household goods and furniture as bed bedding furniture > and every other Individual thing or article Its my wish that after my > decease my dearly beloved Grandson Joseph Hope will shall have the sum > of twenty pounds ( ) lawful money of (p ) as to be paid > to him out of my estate and likewise my dearly beloved Granddaughter > Sarah Miller to have the like sum of twenty pounds paid to her after > all my just debts and charges be paid and in each there should not be > left so much not to pay them or either of them their twenty pounds > then to pay them both share alike of what there be left and I do > hereby make and ordain my loving friend and Son in Law Abraham Sahler > my sole executor of this my last Will and Testament ratifying and > allowing this and no other to being last Will and Testament In > Witness where of I have here unto set my Hand and Seal the day and > year above written Rachel Coats in her last Willa and Testament in the > presence of Johannes G(rofs) Frederick ( ). Philadelphia May 14th > 1773, Personally appeared Johannes Gross, Frederick Hesser > (Shittlinesen) to the forgoing Will and on Oath did declare that they > saw and heard Rachel Coats the Testatrix therein named Sign Seal and > publish and declare the same Will found as her last Will and > Testatment and that at the Execution thereof she was of Sound diposing > Mind Memory & understanding to the best of their knowldege and > Belief ( )Benjamin ( ) Reg. Genl. Be it remembered that on > the 14th Day of May 1773 The last Will and Tesament of Rachel Coates > deceased in du form of law was proved and probate and Letters > Testimentary thereof are granted To Abraham Sahler Sole Executor in > the said Will named being first duty sworn well and truly to > Administer the said deeds Estate and being ( ) there of into the > Refister GEnerals Office at Philadelphia ( ) before the 14th day of > June next, and ( tive) amount of these Admistration on or > before the 15th day of May 1774 or when the( ) Legally required, Given > (recorder) the Seal of the said Office .... of Benjamin (Chew) Reg. > Genl. (C-2384) > >

----Original Message Follows---- From: Maarja Krusten <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: [ARCHIVES] NCH WASHINGTON UPDATE (Vol. 10, #30; 16 July 2004) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 12:44:23 -0400 NCH WASHINGTON UPDATE (Vol. 10, #30; 16 July 2004) by Bruce Craig (editor) [email protected] and Brian Heyward (contributor) NATIONAL COALITION FOR HISTORY (NCH) Website http//www2.h-net.msu.edu/~nch ***************** 1. ACTION IN THE HOUSE -- NOT A GOOD WEEK FOR HISTORY FUNDING: MASSIVE CUT FOR THE NHPRC AND ZERO MONEY FOR "TEACHING AMERICAN HISTORY" PROGRAM; NIXON LIBRARY GETS EARMARK 2. REPORT: STATE DEPARTMENT HISTORY ADVISORY BOARD MEETING 3. LEGISLATIVE UPDATE: National Great Blacks Museum; Heritage Area Legislation; Cultural Conservation of Afghanistan Heritage: Patriot Act 4. BITS AND BYTES: Clinton Library to Open Records Early; Report on Reading In America; NARA Access Regulations 5. ARTICLES OF INTEREST: "Rise Like Lions: The Role of Artists in a Time of War" and "Stories Hollywood Never Tells" in The Sun (July 2004) ******************************** NEWS FLASH! The Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs has announced that the nomination hearing for Allen Weinstein to be Archivist of the United States will take place on 22 July at 3:30 pm in room 342 at the Dirksen Senate Office Building in Washington D.C. The NCH will be there to cover and report on the event in this publication. ********************* 1. ACTION IN THE HOUSE -- NOT A GOOD WEEK FOR HISTORY FUNDING: MASSIVE CUT FOR THE NHPRC AND ZERO MONEY FOR "TEACHING AMERICAN HISTORY" PROGRAM; NIXON LIBRARY GETS EARMARK Over the last week or so, House appropriation recommendations were announced for the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA), including the National Historical Publications and Records Commission (NHPRC), and the Department of Education, including the "Teaching American History" grant program. With a recommended 70% cut to the NHPRC and zero funds for the "Teaching American History" initiative, this year the House appears little disposed to support programs that advance history and archives. On 15 July 2004, the House Appropriations subcommittee on Transportation, Treasury, and Independent Agencies advanced to the full Appropriations Committee its recommendations for NARA. Though exact numbers are embargoed until the full committee meets next Thursday, Hill insiders report that overall funding for NARA is not bad except for the NHPRC. Reportedly, the subcommittee has endorsed the Bush administration's recommendation of only $3 million for the NHPRC. This represents a 70% cut over last fiscal years allocation, which for the first time reached its fully authorized limit of $10 million. While the subcommittee could not find the funds to enable the NHPRC to operate even at minimum levels, the NCH has learned that House appropriators are prepared to respond favorably to a request for $750,000 by lobbyists representing the Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Birthplace to provide governmental funding for planning and design of a new 25,000 square foot archive facility to house the Nixon papers in Yorba Linda, California. Such an earmark for a presidential library is without precedent. It violates the spirit if not the letter of the law that requires presidential libraries to be entirely planned and constructed with private funds prior to being donated to NARA. History and archive advocates vowed to defeat the earmark and work for higher numbers for the NHPRC. And there's no good news for the "Teaching American History" (TAH) grant initiative either. On 14 July 2004 the House full Appropriations Committee passed its version of the FY 2005 funding bill for the Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education departments. On 8 July the House appropriations subcommittee of jurisdiction recommended a $2 billion (2 percent) increase for the Department of Education for a total recommended budget of $142.526 billion. The subcommittee's mark included funding of $261.743 for the Institute of Museum and Library Services (IMLS) (an increase of nearly $33 million over last year). Some 24 programs, however, were zeroed out completely, including the popular TAH initiative. On 14 July the full House Appropriations Committee endorsed the subcommittee's funding levels and passed the measure by voice vote. In this year of fiscal hardship, the House's strategy on the education bill is being viewed by Hill insiders as a pragmatic move that serves to free up nearly $120 million for other popular programs. The House leadership appears cognizant that in the Senate the TAH program is strongly championed by Senator Robert C. Byrd, Ranking Member of the Senate Appropriations Committee, who undoubtedly will see to it that one of his favorite programs is funded. The vote to kill the program, however, reportedly caused some embarrassment for former history teacher and current Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert (R-IL). On July 12 Hastert appeared in his home district to symbolically present a federal "Teaching American History" grant check of $722,943 to representatives of a local school district that won a grant this year. When questioned about the future of the program by reporters, Hastert apparently was unaware that the program had been zeroed out by the committee. While a press spokesperson for Hastert told the NCH that the Congressman would not inject his will on the subcommittee, he has let Congressman Ralph Regula (R-OH), the education subcommittee chair, know that he is supportive of continued funding for the program. The full House Committee on Appropriations will mark up the Treasury Transportation bill next Thursday. The Labor, Health and Human Services, Education and related Agencies bill is expected to reach the House floor next week; the Senate has yet to consider either bills. 2. REPORT: STATE DEPARTMENT HISTORY ADVISORY BOARD On July 12, during its scheduled two-day meeting, the State Department's Advisory Committee on Historical Diplomatic Documentation met in open session for two hours. Chairman Roger Louis opened the meeting by stressing that this was an open meeting and that he welcomed relevant questions from anyone, committee members, and observers alike. After approval of the minutes of the March 2004 meeting (soon to be posted at: <http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/adcom/mtgnts/>), David Nash of the Legal Advisors Office discussed the status of the Law Digest, which focuses on international law and diplomacy. The 2003 version of the digest is ready for the printers and excerpts and citations will be made available via the Internet. Nash reported that work will soon begin on the Jimmy Carter papers. As always, materials that are considered classified by their respective agencies or that would have the potential to violate attorney/client privilege will not be made available to the public. State Department Chief Historian and Executive Secretary of the committee reported that the Foreign Relations of the U.S. (FRUS) series will soon publish its 31st volume that will address the Johnson Administration's relationship with Mexico, Central, and South America. The 33rd volume will be a departure from the traditional FRUS format. Relying on exhaustive research and extensive use of tapes that illustrate the difference between the legal technicalities of foreign policy and its actual practical application, the volume will give individuals a fuller understanding of foreign policy. Eventually it is the hope of the committee to have access guides, bibliographies, excerpts, and volumes available in electronic format. It was reported that the Office of the Historian has reached an unofficial understanding about what the National Security Council (NSC) and the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) would consider classified, and as such, the work on Nixon and subsequent administrations will be easier. The History Office soon will have a keyword searchable Internet site for all of Henry Kissinger's conversations between 1965 and 1974. Finally, the State Department recently handed over 1.5 million documents, from the years 1973-74, over to the National Archives and Record Administration. At the official ceremony commemorating the exchange, Secretary of State, Colin Powell and outgoing Archivist of the United States John Carlin signed a Memorandum of Understanding, the purpose of which was to increase the interagency cooperation between these two organizations. After screening a brief video of the exchange the open meeting recessed for a break before the private meeting began. 3. LEGISLATIVE UPDATE -- BILLS SIGNED INTO LAW; BILLS INTRODUCED; BILLS DEFEATED National Great Blacks Museum: On 22 June 2004 the president signed into law, "A Bill to Authorize Assistance for the National Great Blacks in Wax Museum and Justice Learning Center" (PL 108-238). Senator Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) and Congressman Elijah Cummings (D-MD) introduced this legislation, in both the Senate and the House in June 2003. The new law authorizes funding to this museum so that it may carry out programs relating to civil rights and juvenile justice up until fiscal year 2009. Heritage Area Legislation: On 17 June 2004, Senator Craig Thomas, Chair of the Senate Parks Subcommittee, introduced legislation the "National Heritage Partnership Act" (S 2543). Similar legislation was introduced (H.R. 1427) on 25 March 2003 by Representative Joel Hefley (R-CO). Both bills seek to define what criteria may be used by National Heritage Areas to classify certain places as historically and culturally significant. Heritage areas are designated by Congress to facilitate a partnership with the National Park Service "to encourage relationships that help conserve the [land's] distinctive qualities and foster local stewardship of the resources that have shaped our national identity." Places are selected on the basis of their historical, cultural, and natural characteristics and amenities. These areas are designated by the federal government and then receive funding that benefit "citizens, Federal, state, and local governments" and non-profit interests. Cultural Conservation of Afghanistan Heritage: On 22 June 2004 Representative Philip English (R-PA) with eight co-sponsors introduced the "Cultural Conservation of the Crossroads of Civilization Act" (HR 4641). The measure empowers the President of the United States to "take certain actions to protect archaeological or ethnological materials of Afghanistan." The bill has been referred to the House Committee on Ways and Means for consideration. Amendment to the Patriot Act Defeated: On 8 July 2004 House Republicans defeated an effort to amend the Patriot Act. An amendment, proposed by Representative Bernard Sanders (I-VT) entitled "The Freedom to Read Protection Act," sought to protect the library records of American citizens from government inspection. Among other organizations, the Sanders amendment was supported by the American Booksellers Association, the American Library Association, and the PEN American Center. Originally, it appeared that the amendment was going to pass the House over the objections of the White House. However, the Majority Whip delayed the vote thus giving him time to persuade several Republicans not to stray from the party line -- the final vote was a 210-210 tie and consequently the amendment failed. When Republicans defeated the bill, cries of, "shame, shame, shame" rang out on the House Floor from Democrats. In spite of the Majority Whip's arm-twisting, some18 Republicans joined 191 Democrats (and one Independent) and voted for the amendment. The Patriot Act was passed just weeks after September 11, 2001. It gave the government new powers to conduct investigations and detain terrorist suspects. 4. BITS AND BYTES Item #1 -- Clinton Library to Open Records Early: On 18 November 2004, former President Bill Clinton plans to release thousands of records pertaining to domestic policy from his presidency. This release will be accomplished nearly a year sooner than the Presidential Records Act calls for and is designed to coincide with the opening of his presidential library. In total some100,000 documents will be made available to scholars. This is a small percentage of the nearly 630 tons of Clinton White House documents that will be moved from a warehouse west of downtown Little Rock to the $165 million Clinton Presidential Center. For more information tap into: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30119-2004Jul6.html . Item #2 -- Report on Reading In America: The reading of literature is on the decline states a National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) survey entitled, "Reading at Risk: A Survey of Literary Reading in America." Although the book industry predicts record high sales for all types of books (projected sales may top $44 billion by 2008), only 46.7% of adults say they are reading literature. A study comparing 17,000 adults in 1982 to adults in 2002 illustrates that the number of adults who read novels, plays, and poetry has decreased by 10 percent. This decline in reading, the NEA says is a result of technology and changing cultural patterns. In 1990 people spent about 6% of their leisure time on audio, video, computers, and software; this has increased to about 24% today. The NEA declares that having fewer readers shrinks the pool of people who are activists in civic and cultural life. According to NEA Chair Dana Gioia, "to lose such intellectual capability and the many sorts of human continuity that it [reading literature] allows would constitute a vast cultural impoverishment." For more information tap into: http://chronicle.com/free/2004/07/2004070901n.htm Item #3 -- NARA Access Regulations: The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) has updated its regulations on access to Federal records and donated historical materials containing restricted information. Public comments on the regulations are due 30 August 2004. The new regulations seek to bring the language on access restrictions into better conformance with the exemptions found in the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). NARA also is modifying the regulations outlining controlled procedures for access to privacy-restricted information for purposes of biomedical research to allow access for social science research. For additional background and the proposed new rules, tap into: http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/06jun20041800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2004/04-14754.htm . 5. ARTICLES OF INTEREST Two articles this week both from The Sun magazine (July 2004). In "Rise Like Lions: The Role of Artists in a Time of War" David Barsamian interviews historian Howard Zinn on the role that artists can play in advancing social change. In the same issue, Zinn writes in "Stories Hollywood Never Tells" about how motion picture producers shy away from controversial historical topics. To access The Sun -- a non-profit ad-free monthly magazine that publishes an eclectic mix of personal essays, fiction, interviews, and photographs -- tap into http://www.thesunmagazine.org/ . *********************************************************** The National Coalition for History invites you to subscribe to this FREE weekly newsletter! You are also encouraged to redistribute the NCH Washington Updates to colleagues, friends, teachers, students and others who are interested in history and archives issues. A complete backfile of these reports is maintained by H-Net on the NCH's recently updated web page at: http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~nch . To subscribe to the "NCH Washington Update," send an e-mail message to: [email protected] with the following text in the body of the message (and only this text) SUBSCRIBE H-NCH firstname lastname, institution. To unsubscribe, send an e-mail message to: [email protected] according to the following model: SIGNOFF H-NCH. You can accomplish the same tasks by tapping into the web interface at: http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/lists/subscribe.cgi and at the "network" prompt, scroll down and select H-NCH; enter your name and affiliation and "submit". ************************************************************** A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org. For the terms of participation, please refer to http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [email protected]io.edu In body of message: SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname *or*: UNSUB ARCHIVES To post a message, send e-mail to [email protected] Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html Problems? Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[email protected]> _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Hi Linda, Boy I have been away from Coates research for awhile - sorry for taking so long to reply to your question but I had to go back through my files and refresh my memory on what I did and why since this group is not my direct line. First let me list my sources... ====================== Ancestry.com lists in their Philadelphia PA Church Records 1709-60 (I don't trust them so I requested a copy of the book yesterday) ----------------------- Mary Coates - wife of Warick buried 1/10/1744 ------------------------ as children for Warwick Coats (no wife listed) John Coats - buried 29/3/1744-5 Rebecca - buried 3/12/1750 ---------------------- as children for Warwick & Rebecca Coats Rebecca Coats - born 14/6/1760 baptism 15/8/1760 Mary Coats - born 8/10/1741 baptism 25/11/1750 John Coats - born 26/12/1745 baptism 25/11/1750 Sarah Coats - born 15/10/1747 baptism 25/11/1750 Rebekkah Coats - born 8/11/1749 baptism 25/11/1750 William Coats - born 12/9/1754 baptism 4/10/1758 Joseph Coats - born 22/8/1758 baptism 4/10/1758 -------------------------- ____? Coats - Warwick son of Warwick buried 2/11/1758 ========================== in the book "Pennsylvania Births Philadelphia Co. 1644-1765" by John T. Humphrey Records of Christ Church Coats/Coates Rebecca 14 Jun 1760 Warwick & Rebecca John 26 Dec 1745 Warwick & Rebekkah Joseph 22 Aug 1758 Warwick & Rebecca Mary 8 Oct 1741 Warwick & Rebecca Rebekkah 8 Nov 1749 Warwick & Rebekkah Sarah 15 Oct 1747 Warwick & Rebecca William 12 Sep 1754 Warwick & Rebecca ==================== In Warwick Coates 1781/1782 will he lists children - John, Warwick Jr., William, Sarah Moreland, grandchildren Clement & Rebecca Plumstead children of daughter Mary Plumstead. ------------- note - the name Warwick is also mentioned as a son of William Coates in his 1783 will, a son of John in his 1764/1760 will, a cousin of William Coats in his 1779/1780 will and a brother in law to Richard Wright Jr. in his 1748 will. In Delaware deeds - 1768 Warwick of Phila. w. Rebecca, Sarah Faulkner (late Penrose), Mary Dutton (widow), Robert & Jane Knox, Susannah Coats (widow), Isaac Snowden and Emanuel Eyres - last 3 are exec of Abraham Coats [dec'd] will. Warwick, Sarah, Mary, Jane & Abraham were children of John Coats Sr. [dec'd] and wife Mary Hale [dec'd]- d/o Warwick Hale [dec'd] ======================= (found much later in my research) per "Chronicles of the Plumstead Family" by Eugene Devereux Thomas Plumstead married August 16, 1762 to Mary, daughter and only child of Warwick and Mary Coats. She was born in Philadelphia October 8, 1741 - died August 10, 1780. Issue - Clement Plumstead b. Sept. 4, 1763 & Rebecca b. March 8, 1765 m Benjamin Hutton. Additional notes on Warwick, eldest son of John and Mary (Hale) Coats - born in Philadelphia Nov. 3, 1715, died Feb. 12, 1782 - married prior to 1741, Mary____ (no record found of marriage) she died Oct. 1, 1744. Warwick Coats by a second wife had several children. ========================= Your site lists - ---children of Warwick & Mary - Mary b. 10/8/1741 d. 8/10/1780 m. Thomas Plumstead John b. 10/2/1744 d. 3/29/1745 ---children of Warwick & Rebecca John b 12/26/1745 d. 4/30/1788 Sarah b. 10/15/1747 d. aft. 1782 Rebecca b. 11/8/1749 d. bef. 12/3/1750 Warwick b. aft. 1751 d. aft. 4/30/1788 William b. 9/12/1754 d. aft 3/1783 Mary b. bef. 1757 d. bef. 1781 m. unknown Plumstead Joseph b. 8/22/1758 d. 11/2/1758 Rebecca b. 6/14/1760 d. bef. 1782 ==================== I see what I did originally was simply list the 5 children named in Warwick's 1782 will. I never went back and re-arranged the children after I found more details on Warwick. Even with that said I am still not certain that Warwick & Mary did not have more than 2 children and that Warwick & Mary had more than 7. To begin with the records indicate that Mary was born in 1741 which is during the time that Warwick was married to Mary - but the church records list her mother as Rebecca - I think because Mary was not baptised until 11/25/1750 during the period that Warwick was married to Rebecca - so Mary Coats/Plumstead should be listed as Mary's child not Rebecca's. Mary & Warwick Coats are stated to have only one child according to the Plumstead book but that could simply mean that she was the only one to survive to adulthood. The various records show that there was a John s/o Warwick died 3/1744-5 and Mary w/o Warwick died 10/1744 we can safely assume that this child was from Warwick's marriage to Mary. __? Coats - Warwick s/o Warwick died 11/2/1758 - highly unlikely to be a grandchild of Warwick Srs. because we know that the Warwick Jr. who survived to be mentioned in Warwick Sr.'s 1782 will was married to Sarah Kelly 5/11/1777 (I cannot find Warwick Coats m. to Mary Plumstead even in the Plumstead book - oddly that is the name of his deceased sister). So I'm assuming that the burial entry was for Warwick Coats s/o Warwick and that it was entered into the records or database incorrectly. If I am correct there was another son of Warwick Sr. who was named Warwick but died 1758. Without more details there is no way to determine who his mother was. I do notice that you have Joseph s/o Warwick & Rebecca with a date of death 11/2/1758 which is the same as listed for Warwick s/o Warwick - do your sources show two sons dying on the same day or is Joseph and Warwick jr. the same person? So I am adjusting my data base to show - --Children of Warwick & Mary -- Mary John possibly Warwick d. 1758 - although he could be a son of Rebecca instead. --Children of Warwick & Rebecca -- John Sarah Rebecca William Joseph Rebecca Warwick d. aft 1782 Sorry if my sloppy work on Warwick's family caused any confusion - let me know if you agree with my latest conclusions or if I need to do some more adjusting.... Thanks for questioning me so I knew to go back and finally make those corrections, Susan Linda J. Coate wrote: > Who are Warwick's five children by Mary? LInda Coate > At 03:51 PM 7/10/2004, you wrote: > >> If have been away from Coates research for awhile - working on other >> surnames but the Northern Liberties in Philadelphia, PA is one of my >> groups also. >> >> a simple outline would be -- >> >> > > <http://www.ancestrees.com/>