I think the problem is that, from the outside, it looks as though Clooz and Legacy march hand in hand and are more integrated than perhaps the real case is. Certainly I've never seen any response to my queries about people using Clooz as a stand-alone document management system -- thus suggesting to my mind that Clooz users are also tied Legacy users. Are there Clooz users who use one of the other Windows-based genealogy programs? I know there are none on the Mac side. I had been interested in using Clooz as the "electronic filing cabinet" that I had seen described in some articles, but I'm certainly not interested in migrating my files to Legacy in order to use Clooz. Whatever the initial design assumptions from the Clooz side, Clooz users have their own mental models of the two programs and their relationship. Designers, programmers, etc. need to recognize that rather than rejecting it as unreasonable -- if for no other reason than it's inevitable. Kate McCain Clooz-L-request@rootsweb.com 06/18/2006 04:54 PM Please respond to markieblackmon@erols.com To Clooz-L@rootsweb.com cc Subject Re: [Clooz] Entering people in Clooz & Legacy Elizabeth ~ I was not making "programming suggestions"; if I were, the post would have included code. I was merely addressing Clooz/Legacy interoperability features at a *functional/user level* in response to another poster's query. I in no way inferred degree of difficulty one way or the other regarding new feature implementation. The topic never came up. Margaret Flint Blackmon Elizabeth Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL wrote: > Margaret, I would appreciate it if you would make your programming > suggestions to me instead of to the list. I am a staff of one, and I > pay a programmer, who is currently on vacation. It took me 5 years to > release Clooz 2. Implementing anything new is not as easy as you make > it sound. There's no reason Millennia can't make functions available > for their users within Legacy as I've done within Clooz, if they want > to provide that service to their customers. > > Clooz is a stand-alone program and I've only added the convenience of > using Legacy and Clooz together because I purchased their GEDCOM code. > I don't make it easy for users of ANY other program to use the two > together, and I'm beginning to regret making Legacy and Clooz work > together (for several reasons). My obligation is to ALL of my > customers, not just to Legacy users. I will concentrate my programming > resources where I feel they are most needed. > > At 10:01 AM 6/16/2006, Markie Flint Blackmon wrote: >> You've misunderstood my point. Let me clarify: >> >> In order to get Legacy data into Clooz (people, sources, anything), >> Legacy does not need TO BE MODIFIED to *write to* Clooz. Clooz can >> BE MODIFIED to *read from* Legacy. You don't need Millenia's >> involvement at all. >> >> I was responding to your prior statement "If you want to be able to >> add people to Legacy and then Clooz, you'll need to bug the folks at >> Millennia as it's their move to make that possible. " >> In fact, you/your programmer can make this possible. For example, >> implement an "Import New People" function in Clooz which would, when >> selected, provide the user with a dropdown list of Legacy folk. User >> selection from this list would result in the selected individuals' >> pertinent data being inserted into Clooz. >> I, too, know what I'm talking about. >> >> Margaret Flint Blackmon >> Oracle Certified Master DBA, 1992 >> Oracle Developer, V5-V11i, 1988-2006 >> Microsoft Access Developer, 1991-2006 >> >> Elizabeth Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL wrote: >>> That's not true. Clooz writes to Legacy and Clooz databases. Legacy >>> writes to Legacy databases only. If you want to write people to >>> Legacy and Clooz simultaneously, the only way to do that currently >>> is to add them to Clooz. Legacy doesn't add people to the Clooz >>> database, which is separate. >>> >>> I really do know what I'm talking about, Margaret. >>> >>> At 01:23 PM 6/15/2006, Markie Flint Blackmon wrote: >>>> In order to get Legacy data into Clooz (people, sources, anything), >>>> Legacy does not need to **write to** Clooz. Clooz can **read >>>> from** Legacy. You don't need Millenia's involvement at all. >>>> >>>> Margaret >>>> >>>> >>>> Elizabeth Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL wrote: >>>>> Clooz writes to Legacy but Legacy doesn't write PEOPLE to Clooz, >>>>> as I said below. It's not for me, it's for Legacy users. >>>>> >>>>> At 11:34 AM 6/15/2006, Markie Flint Blackmon wrote: * >>>>>> Now I'm very confused. Clooz currently writes to Legacy, so that >>>>>> connection exists. What's preventing Clooz from querying that >>>>>> same database? What exactly do you expect Millenia to provide? >>>>>> >>>>>> Margaret >>>>>> >>>>>> At 09:17 PM 6/14/2006, Nancy Bender wrote: >>>>>>> I just recently upgraded to Clooz 2.0 and Legacy 6 Deluxe. From >>>>>>> what I have been reading, if I am understanding correctly, when >>>>>>> I enter new people in Legacy, the only way to get them into >>>>>>> Clooz is to enter them manually. Is that correct? I have >>>>>>> preferred to enter people into Legacy first then Clooz, but it >>>>>>> sounds like I need to change my habit and enter into Clooz first >>>>>>> so they will be automatically entered into Legacy. Am I >>>>>>> understanding this process correctly? >>>>>> >>>>>> That is correct at the moment. If you want to be able to add >>>>>> people to Legacy and then Clooz, you'll need to bug the folks at >>>>>> Millennia as it's their move to make that possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Liz Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL @>---- >>>>>> Ancestor Detective, LLC >>>>>> http://www.ancestordetective.com >>>>>> Creator of Clooz, http://www.clooz.com >>>>>> Editor of Genealogical Computing, http://www.ancestry.com >>>>>> Editor of NGS NewsMagazine, http://www.ngsgenealogy.org >>>>>> >>>>>> ============================== >>>>>> Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for >>>>>> ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: >>>>>> http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx >>>>> >>>>> Liz Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL @>---- >>>>> Ancestor Detective, LLC >>>>> http://www.ancestordetective.com >>>>> Creator of Clooz, http://www.clooz.com >>>>> Editor of Genealogical Computing, http://www.ancestry.com >>>>> Editor of NGS NewsMagazine, http://www.ngsgenealogy.org >>>> >>>> >>>> ============================== >>>> Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and >>>> the >>>> areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >>>> Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >>> >>> Liz Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL @>---- >>> Ancestor Detective, LLC >>> http://www.ancestordetective.com >>> Creator of Clooz, http://www.clooz.com >>> Editor of Genealogical Computing, http://www.ancestry.com >>> Editor of NGS NewsMagazine, http://www.ngsgenealogy.org >> >> >> ============================== >> Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. >> Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx >> > > Liz Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL @>---- > Ancestor Detective, LLC > http://www.ancestordetective.com > Creator of Clooz, http://www.clooz.com > Editor of Genealogical Computing, http://www.ancestry.com > Editor of NGS NewsMagazine, http://www.ngsgenealogy.org > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Ladies - I think that this has gone much further than any one on the list has any desire to see or hear the discussion. I would recommend that if this discussion has to be continued, then it be continued off the list. There are only three programs / products on the market that I know have these capabilities - CloozV2, Custodian Version 3, and Bygones - the only one that is robust is Clooz as the other two are older programs and are being patched to work with the various changes. Additionally, the other two programs, especially the Custodian, do not respond to email - no matter how many you send - at the very least Liz responds, and then gives some answers and guidance. So, rather than spending the time, effort and energy attempt to "show each other the might and strength of each other", I for one would much rather see this put in to making this program better and a leader in the market of genealogy - as I DO THINK THER IS A DEFINITE NEED FOR THIS TYPE OF PROGRAM! So, can we get on with the work and thoughts of making this program better - more stable, more useful -- or do we all have to be punished with this continual battle of wills and hurt feelings.