Here's an older posting that as a TMG user I also found to be an issue for me. Let me know what all you TMG users think- On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:33:42 EDT JCAcker@aol.com writes: I am new at using Clooz, and am trying the older version. Could someone please explain the difference between source and document entry. I have always considered each document a source when entering into my genealogy program (TMG). It looks like the document is more related to events, so I am very confused. Thanks On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:30:46 Elizabeth responded with this: This is directly from Clooz Help in version 1.23: "Before you start, realize the difference between a source and a document. In short, a source is the place where you got the information and a document is the record itself, such as a census record." That's how Clooz distinguishes between the two. Now I say ;) I completely understand the confusion! As a new owner of Clooz, many of my "documents" are turning out to be very similar to my sources. I think due to the structure of TMG and it's many variable templates, many users are able and do enter documents as the main source. There has long been a debate between "Lumpers" and "Splitters" (TMG Board Rootsweb) with regard to data entry into TMG. As a "Splitter", I consider each document a "Source Document" and all information within that document is recorded with that source within the Source Master File. EX: Marriage register record for John Smith and Ann Jones is a source. >From what I gather from the TMG Board, "Lumpers" enter document specific info in "Citation Detail" in TMG and link it to a more general Master Source Record. EX: Breckinridge County, KY Marriage Register is the source and all info pertinent to the specific record of John Smith and Ann Jones is recorded separately from the source info. This just means that Splitters have a greater number of sources with more details and Lumpers have more details in their citation fields linked to fewer, more general master sources. Doesn't mean one or the other is right or wrong as you can find many experienced, certified genealogists who are either Lumpers or Splitters. I think as a "Splitter" using Clooz, getting my head around what is a document and what is a source is very confusing. I was looking to use Clooz as a way to organize and keep track of all the pieces of info I come across while researching regardless of whether that info comes in the form of a person, document, or object. To be able to readily access the info when needed and once I have deemed it an appropriate source for entry to TMG to be able to cross reference it via the source drop down box. Is any of this making sense to anyone out there? Any suggestions or comments would help! I'm doubting my own sanity at this point =:) -----Original Message----- From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of clooz-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 12:10 AM To: clooz@rootsweb.com Subject: CLOOZ Digest, Vol 1, Issue 12 Today's Topics: 1. Copying IDs (Kym Lister) 2. Re: Copying IDs (Mike Daugherty) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:29:20 -0700 From: "Kym Lister" <kymmy@cox.net> Subject: [CLOOZ] Copying IDs To: <CLOOZ@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <000001c6e1bb$36489c20$6501a8c0@gateway0rzt38r> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I imported from TMG to Clooz. I had the import include all my TMG Data Set ID numbers as those are the IDs I use to identify my people and I don't use another form of reference ID. Is there a way to copy those IDs to the Alternate ID column? I need to do this because the TMG ID is my only identifying reference number for all my people. As I begin using Clooz, the new people I enter may not have been entered into TMG and received a TMG generated ID yet so I need to be able to leave the Alternate ID column blank for this use. Is there any way to do a simple copy from the ID field to the Alternate ID field before I start using Clooz from this point? Thanks! Kym Lister ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 21:07:26 -0400 From: "Mike Daugherty" <mmj7806@adelphia.net> Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Copying IDs To: <clooz@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <006a01c6e1d1$4cd6d540$0215a8c0@MIKEDESKTOP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Kym I'm afraid I only have an indirect answer to an direct question. I, too, am a user of both TMG and Clooz. First off, my indirect answer to your question - if Clooz has such a copy feature, I haven't seen it yet. I suspect not. I have used a similar approach to yours, in dealing with both TMG and Clooz at the same time, but with a few differences. Because of the lack of a programmatic link between TMG and Clooz, I elected to enter my people into Clooz manually rather than through the import process. That's because my TMG database is still in relatively early stages of development, with only about 2500 people in it, and once I have imported them, I would need to manually enter new people that I add to TMG into both databases anyway. And since the Clooz person record only contains 6 fields, I don't find that a great inconvenience. Besides that, this way the only people that I actually have entered in Clooz are the ones that I actually have documents for. So when I enter a new person into Clooz, I let it use whatever number it wants for the primary ID. I then enter the Alternate ID from my corresponding TMG record, and the other 5 bits of data about the person. That way, I have a reference number between the 2 databases. The downside is that I can never use TMG's record renumbering utility, because that would demolish the relationship between the records in the 2 databases. For what its worth, I also use 2 (at the moment) other types of alternate IDs in Clooz. Since Clooz doesn't care what sort of value you place in the alternate ID field, and since those values don't have to be unique, I use the words UNRELATED and UNKNOWN for certain people. An example of where I find this useful is with census records (which, quite frankly, is where most of my experience with Clooz is at this point). Sometimes I have an ancestor who was doing something like living as a boarder in an unrelated person's household. So the actual census record might have 6 or 8 individuals in the household, but the only 1 that I have recorded in my TMG database is my ancestor. Depending upon who they are, sometimes I list the other individuals in the memo field of my census tag in such a way that they appear appropriately on my narrative reports. Those people, do, however, have a place in my Clooz database, because, otherwise I will have a census record in Clooz that has nothing in it except for my relative. So I put a record for everyone who was in the household in the Clooz census record. That is where the UNRELATED and UNKNOWN alternate IDs come in. I use UNRELATED as an alternate ID when I absolutely know that the person has no blood or marital relationship to my family. I use UNKNOWN when I don't know if there is such a relationship. So far that is working pretty well for me, although I freely admit that I am rather a novice at this whole genealogy game. I'm having a real ball with it though... Hope this helps Mike D. -----Original Message----- From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kym Lister Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:29 PM To: CLOOZ@rootsweb.com Subject: [CLOOZ] Copying IDs I imported from TMG to Clooz. I had the import include all my TMG Data Set ID numbers as those are the IDs I use to identify my people and I don't use another form of reference ID. Is there a way to copy those IDs to the Alternate ID column? I need to do this because the TMG ID is my only identifying reference number for all my people. As I begin using Clooz, the new people I enter may not have been entered into TMG and received a TMG generated ID yet so I need to be able to leave the Alternate ID column blank for this use. Is there any way to do a simple copy from the ID field to the Alternate ID field before I start using Clooz from this point? Thanks! Kym Lister ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ To contact the CLOOZ list administrator, send an email to CLOOZ-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the CLOOZ mailing list, send an email to CLOOZ@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of CLOOZ Digest, Vol 1, Issue 12 ************************************

As a historian, I'd say the document itself is the source for the information you extract from it. E.g., if you say that John Doe was born c1840 (because you found him listed in the Census of 1850 as being ten years old), the SOURCE of your information IS that particular Census. The actual census is the document, and you may have a copy or image of that particular census page as YOUR document. Or you may say John Doe III was born 5/22/1923 and say that the SOURCE of your info is his birth certificate, (which of course is a DOCUMENT). Or a particular page in a book can be the source of your information, but we usually call a book a "secondary account" because it is made up of information from a variety of source and other accounts. Some books are known as "documentary histories" because they contain transcripts of a number of documents pertaining to a particular subject. The question "What was your source (of that information)?" is like asking "In what document did you find that information?" or "Who told you that?" (if you got the information verbally). So the source is not ALWAYS a document! (I hope this has been a little clarifying and not confusing!) Pat > Here's an older posting that as a TMG user I also found to be an issue for > me. Let me know what all you TMG users think- > > On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:33:42 EDT JCAcker@aol.com writes: > I am new at using Clooz, and am trying the older version. Could someone > please explain the difference between source and document entry. I have > always considered each document a source when entering into my genealogy > program (TMG). It looks like the document is more related to events, so I > am > very confused. Thanks > > On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:30:46 Elizabeth responded with this: > This is directly from Clooz Help in version 1.23: > > "Before you start, realize the difference between a source and a document. > In short, a source is the place where you got the information and a > document > is the record itself, such as a census record." > > That's how Clooz distinguishes between the two. > > Now I say ;) > > I completely understand the confusion! As a new owner of Clooz, many of > my > "documents" are turning out to be very similar to my sources. I think due > to the structure of TMG and it's many variable templates, many users are > able and do enter documents as the main source. There has long been a > debate between "Lumpers" and "Splitters" (TMG Board Rootsweb) with regard > to > data entry into TMG. > > As a "Splitter", I consider each document a "Source Document" and all > information within that document is recorded with that source within the > Source Master File. EX: Marriage register record for John Smith and Ann > Jones is a source. > >>From what I gather from the TMG Board, "Lumpers" enter document specific > info in "Citation Detail" in TMG and link it to a more general Master > Source > Record. EX: Breckinridge County, KY Marriage Register is the source and > all info pertinent to the specific record of John Smith and Ann Jones is > recorded separately from the source info. > > This just means that Splitters have a greater number of sources with more > details and Lumpers have more details in their citation fields linked to > fewer, more general master sources. Doesn't mean one or the other is > right > or wrong as you can find many experienced, certified genealogists who are > either Lumpers or Splitters. > > I think as a "Splitter" using Clooz, getting my head around what is a > document and what is a source is very confusing. I was looking to use > Clooz > as a way to organize and keep track of all the pieces of info I come > across > while researching regardless of whether that info comes in the form of a > person, document, or object. To be able to readily access the info when > needed and once I have deemed it an appropriate source for entry to TMG to > be able to cross reference it via the source drop down box. > > Is any of this making sense to anyone out there? Any suggestions or > comments would help! > > I'm doubting my own sanity at this point =:) > > -----Original Message----- > From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of clooz-request@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 12:10 AM > To: clooz@rootsweb.com > Subject: CLOOZ Digest, Vol 1, Issue 12 > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Copying IDs (Kym Lister) > 2. Re: Copying IDs (Mike Daugherty) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:29:20 -0700 > From: "Kym Lister" <kymmy@cox.net> > Subject: [CLOOZ] Copying IDs > To: <CLOOZ@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <000001c6e1bb$36489c20$6501a8c0@gateway0rzt38r> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I imported from TMG to Clooz. I had the import include all my TMG Data > Set > ID numbers as those are the IDs I use to identify my people and I don't > use > another form of reference ID. Is there a way to copy those IDs to the > Alternate ID column? I need to do this because the TMG ID is my only > identifying reference number for all my people. As I begin using Clooz, > the new people I enter may not have been entered into TMG and received a > TMG > generated ID yet so I need to be able to leave the Alternate ID column > blank > for this use. Is there any way to do a simple copy from the ID field to > the > Alternate ID field before I start using Clooz from this point? > > Thanks! > Kym Lister > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 21:07:26 -0400 > From: "Mike Daugherty" <mmj7806@adelphia.net> > Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Copying IDs > To: <clooz@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <006a01c6e1d1$4cd6d540$0215a8c0@MIKEDESKTOP> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Kym > > I'm afraid I only have an indirect answer to an direct question. I, too, > am > a user of both TMG and Clooz. First off, my indirect answer to your > question - if Clooz has such a copy feature, I haven't seen it yet. I > suspect not. > > I have used a similar approach to yours, in dealing with both TMG and > Clooz > at the same time, but with a few differences. Because of the lack of a > programmatic link between TMG and Clooz, I elected to enter my people into > Clooz manually rather than through the import process. That's because my > TMG database is still in relatively early stages of development, with only > about 2500 people in it, and once I have imported them, I would need to > manually enter new people that I add to TMG into both databases anyway. > And > since the Clooz person record only contains 6 fields, I don't find that a > great inconvenience. Besides that, this way the only people that I > actually > have entered in Clooz are the ones that I actually have documents for. > > So when I enter a new person into Clooz, I let it use whatever number it > wants for the primary ID. I then enter the Alternate ID from my > corresponding TMG record, and the other 5 bits of data about the person. > That way, I have a reference number between the 2 databases. The downside > is that I can never use TMG's record renumbering utility, because that > would > demolish the relationship between the records in the 2 databases. > > For what its worth, I also use 2 (at the moment) other types of alternate > IDs in Clooz. Since Clooz doesn't care what sort of value you place in > the > alternate ID field, and since those values don't have to be unique, I use > the words UNRELATED and UNKNOWN for certain people. An example of where I > find this useful is with census records (which, quite frankly, is where > most > of my experience with Clooz is at this point). Sometimes I have an > ancestor > who was doing something like living as a boarder in an unrelated person's > household. So the actual census record might have 6 or 8 individuals in > the > household, but the only 1 that I have recorded in my TMG database is my > ancestor. Depending upon who they are, sometimes I list the other > individuals in the memo field of my census tag in such a way that they > appear appropriately on my narrative reports. Those people, do, however, > have a place in my Clooz database, because, otherwise I will have a census > record in Clooz that has nothing in it except for my relative. So I put a > record for everyone who was in the household in the Clooz census record. > That is where the UNRELATED and UNKNOWN alternate IDs come in. I use > UNRELATED as an alternate ID when I absolutely know that the person has no > blood or marital relationship to my family. I use UNKNOWN when I don't > know > if there is such a relationship. So far that is working pretty well for > me, > although I freely admit that I am rather a novice at this whole genealogy > game. I'm having a real ball with it though... > > Hope this helps > Mike D. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Kym Lister > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:29 PM > To: CLOOZ@rootsweb.com > Subject: [CLOOZ] Copying IDs > > I imported from TMG to Clooz. I had the import include all my TMG Data > Set > ID numbers as those are the IDs I use to identify my people and I don't > use > another form of reference ID. Is there a way to copy those IDs to the > Alternate ID column? I need to do this because the TMG ID is my only > identifying reference number for all my people. As I begin using Clooz, > the new people I enter may not have been entered into TMG and received a > TMG > generated ID yet so I need to be able to leave the Alternate ID column > blank > for this use. Is there any way to do a simple copy from the ID field to > the > Alternate ID field before I start using Clooz from this point? > > Thanks! > Kym Lister > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the CLOOZ list administrator, send an email to > CLOOZ-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the CLOOZ mailing list, send an email to > CLOOZ@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. > > > End of CLOOZ Digest, Vol 1, Issue 12 > ************************************ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >