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    1. [CLOOZ] Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.?
    2. Ralf M. via
    3. Hello all, Recently I asked on a mailing list how to enter information of different documents into a genealogy software and then have the software help me draw conclusions how to put together the pieces to form a family tree (as opposed to having to draw my conclusions "offline" and enter the results into the software). I was told to have a look at Clooz (and Evidentia). Watching the introductory videos Evidentia seems to require a lot of typing, so I rather had a closer look at Clooz. By now I have watched all the Clooz videos and read nearly the complete manual. At first Clooz looked very promising, but then doubts started whether the software really helps with what I would like to achieve. So I decided to ask here about it rather than try the software not knowing how to use it. Among several concerns my main worry is the following: Clooz seems to be geared towards documents that contain details about people (and cover a single event). Census data are like that, and the examples in the videos use census data. However, most of my documents are register records and focus on relationships between people (parents and child, spouses with their parents and possibly children, ...). There are also population register records that typically document multiple events. Does Clooz handle such documents properly? E.g. I enter a birth record into Clooz (newborn and parents) and export that to GEDCOM. Will the GEDCOM contain the fact that the newborn is the child of the parents? After all a birth record is the most official document I will ever get for the fact who the parents of the newborn are. I am somewhat doubtful due to the explanations in the "Families Tab" section of the manual. Things get even worse for a marriage record, which documents the married couple and the parents of bride and groom, often supplemented by information about children of the couple. In essence a marriage record often proves a three generation family tree. And thus I expect the GEDCOM which Clooz generates from such a marriage record to contain the three generation family tree. Does Clooz work like that? Finally an example of a population register record. These were often kept on index cards. The front side of such an index card contains information about the people, like Husband Adam Schmitt, born 21.3.1895 Berlin Wife Berta Schmitt nee Meyer born 18.5.1899 Berlin Child 1 Charlotte born 13.8.1920 Berlin Child 2 David born 7.7.1922 Berlin Child ... (This does not necessarily imply that husband and wife are the parents of the children, only that the children live in the household.) The back side of such an index card contains information about their moves. A card from Hamburg might look like 15.9.1930 Adam from Berlin to Nordkanalstr. 25 1.12.1930 Adam from Nordkanalstr. 25 to Altonaer Str. 77 1.1.1931 Berta, Charlotte, David from Berlin to Altonaer Str. 77 1.5.1932 Family from Altonaer Str. 77 to Kanalstr. 8 27.3.1936 Charlotte from Kanalstr. 8 to Kiel 9.8.1936 Charlotte from Kiel to Kanalstr. 8 1.8.1940 David from Kanalstr. 8 to Wilhelmshafen (military service) 23.3.1941 Charlotte from Kanalstr. 8 to Billstr. 15 (now own card) ... There are occasionally further information on these index cards; I have seen changes of religion and changes of citizenchip (both with a date). Is it possible to enter the content of such an index card (including the back side) as a document in Clooz? I'd be happy about any answers and how-to-explanations. Best regards, Ralf M.

    03/22/2016 04:22:49
    1. Re: [CLOOZ] Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.?
    2. Terri Brown's Genealogy via
    3. Hi Ralf, My best recommendation is for you to try the 14-day free trial. There is a link on the Clooz home page at the top and bottom of the page. Also check the mailing list archives. I don't remember any specific issues being raised on the mailing list in regards to GEDCOM exports. Unfortunately I can't answer the questions regarding exporting Clooz data to GEDCOM as I use Legacy Family Tree. Clooz interfaces nicely with Legacy - no GEDCOM needed. It also interfaces with Family Historian. Clooz can handle most anything you can think of. Exports of any type of birth, marriage or death record works properly whether the data is from a modern certificate or a register book. All individuals are linked in Legacy as long as the Families tab is set up correctly, which is easy to do. If the family relationship is already set up in Legacy there is no need to change the Families tab. You usually only have to set up the Families tab when adding new individuals. The same with Census data. A census export will include estimated birth dates when an age is given. If a death record also includes the decedents birth date, the birth date will also export. Other information on documents will export depending on the document type. Your marriage record example should work as long as the Families tab is set up correctly. Keep in mind there will likely be some cleanup work to be done once you import the GEDCOM produced by Clooz into your family tree file. Now, documents containing information on more than one event can be tricky. If you did not want to export the data to GEDCOM you could find the document template that works best and move on. If you DO want to export the data you may want to split the data into its respective templates. In your population register example the Birth document template will work beautifully for the first part of your example. I'm not so sure about the second part of your population register example. You would definitely need to experiment with the different templates to see if something would work. I just make it work the best I can if existing templates don't suit my needs. There are times when Clooz simply can't do the exact export I need. Luckily for me those times are few and far between. I've been using Clooz for more years than I can count - since version 1. It's come a long way with many improvements in the last couple of years and many more planned for the future. Also, Support is awesome! Regards, Terri Rosnagel Brown Researching: Rosnagel, Thompson, Kibbee, Bovee, Slater, Stadler, Fuchs, Hart, Eckersley Kibbee, Rosnagel, Slater, Thompson and Allied Lines <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=ridgrnr> Brown/Braun and Paul/Pawlowski <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=jeepjim> -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ralf M. via Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 5:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [CLOOZ] Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.? Hello all, Recently I asked on a mailing list how to enter information of different documents into a genealogy software and then have the software help me draw conclusions how to put together the pieces to form a family tree (as opposed to having to draw my conclusions "offline" and enter the results into the software). I was told to have a look at Clooz (and Evidentia). Watching the introductory videos Evidentia seems to require a lot of typing, so I rather had a closer look at Clooz. By now I have watched all the Clooz videos and read nearly the complete manual. At first Clooz looked very promising, but then doubts started whether the software really helps with what I would like to achieve. So I decided to ask here about it rather than try the software not knowing how to use it. Among several concerns my main worry is the following: Clooz seems to be geared towards documents that contain details about people (and cover a single event). Census data are like that, and the examples in the videos use census data. However, most of my documents are register records and focus on relationships between people (parents and child, spouses with their parents and possibly children, ...). There are also population register records that typically document multiple events. Does Clooz handle such documents properly? E.g. I enter a birth record into Clooz (newborn and parents) and export that to GEDCOM. Will the GEDCOM contain the fact that the newborn is the child of the parents? After all a birth record is the most official document I will ever get for the fact who the parents of the newborn are. I am somewhat doubtful due to the explanations in the "Families Tab" section of the manual. Things get even worse for a marriage record, which documents the married couple and the parents of bride and groom, often supplemented by information about children of the couple. In essence a marriage record often proves a three generation family tree. And thus I expect the GEDCOM which Clooz generates from such a marriage record to contain the three generation family tree. Does Clooz work like that? Finally an example of a population register record. These were often kept on index cards. The front side of such an index card contains information about the people, like Husband Adam Schmitt, born 21.3.1895 Berlin Wife Berta Schmitt nee Meyer born 18.5.1899 Berlin Child 1 Charlotte born 13.8.1920 Berlin Child 2 David born 7.7.1922 Berlin Child ... (This does not necessarily imply that husband and wife are the parents of the children, only that the children live in the household.) The back side of such an index card contains information about their moves. A card from Hamburg might look like 15.9.1930 Adam from Berlin to Nordkanalstr. 25 1.12.1930 Adam from Nordkanalstr. 25 to Altonaer Str. 77 1.1.1931 Berta, Charlotte, David from Berlin to Altonaer Str. 77 1.5.1932 Family from Altonaer Str. 77 to Kanalstr. 8 27.3.1936 Charlotte from Kanalstr. 8 to Kiel 9.8.1936 Charlotte from Kiel to Kanalstr. 8 1.8.1940 David from Kanalstr. 8 to Wilhelmshafen (military service) 23.3.1941 Charlotte from Kanalstr. 8 to Billstr. 15 (now own card) ... There are occasionally further information on these index cards; I have seen changes of religion and changes of citizenchip (both with a date). Is it possible to enter the content of such an index card (including the back side) as a document in Clooz? I'd be happy about any answers and how-to-explanations. Best regards, Ralf M. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    03/22/2016 03:37:49
    1. Re: [CLOOZ] Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.?
    2. Rich Thomas via
    3. Ralf, I'll add a couple of remarks to Terri's accurate response. Clooz doesn't internally maintain relationships between people, only their role in the document. The determination of parent-child relationships (or event parent-parent and child-child [siblings]) is all generated within the Families Tab of the export form. Depending upon the type of document, Clooz may be able to suggest a set of relationships, but essentially it is up to you the researcher to determine what relationships should be made. The tools are there for you to do that. The parent-child relationships you setup would be placed in the GEDCOM file. Terri is correct regarding the challenges of entering multiple event type combinations within the same document. There is nothing to keep you from using multiple document types (all pointing back to the same source), but that would require multiple export operations. You could keep exporting to the same GEDCOM file to accumulate the various events. Different people will use Clooz in different ways, whatever best suits their need. Experimenting with it will give you the clearest answer. (i.e., the free trial) I will say that you will find Evidentia focuses more on the key resulting fact and its justification, where Clooz is more focused on the entire set of details in a document. If your interest is to write proof statements supporting the Genealogical Proof Standard, Evidentia would be the program of choice. If your interest is to organize/analyze details from the various documents you find (not knowing if they contain the right people or not), then Clooz is your tool. Rich Thomas Ancestral Systems LLC > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:clooz- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Terri Brown's Genealogy via > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 9:38 PM > To: 'Ralf M.' <[email protected]>; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.? > > Hi Ralf, > > My best recommendation is for you to try the 14-day free trial. There is a link > on the Clooz home page at the top and bottom of the page. Also check the > mailing list archives. I don't remember any specific issues being raised on the > mailing list in regards to GEDCOM exports. > > Unfortunately I can't answer the questions regarding exporting Clooz data to > GEDCOM as I use Legacy Family Tree. Clooz interfaces nicely with Legacy - no > GEDCOM needed. It also interfaces with Family Historian. Clooz can handle > most anything you can think of. Exports of any type of birth, marriage or > death record works properly whether the data is from a modern certificate > or a register book. All individuals are linked in Legacy as long as the Families > tab is set up correctly, which is easy to do. If the family relationship is already > set up in Legacy there is no need to change the Families tab. You usually only > have to set up the Families tab when adding new individuals. The same with > Census data. A census export will include estimated birth dates when an age > is given. If a death record also includes the decedents birth date, the birth > date will also export. Other information on documents will export depending > on the document type. > > Your marriage record example should work as long as the Families tab is set > up correctly. Keep in mind there will likely be some cleanup work to be done > once you import the GEDCOM produced by Clooz into your family tree file. > > Now, documents containing information on more than one event can be > tricky. > If you did not want to export the data to GEDCOM you could find the > document template that works best and move on. If you DO want to export > the data you may want to split the data into its respective templates. In your > population register example the Birth document template will work > beautifully for the first part of your example. I'm not so sure about the > second part of your population register example. You would definitely need > to experiment with the different templates to see if something would work. > > I just make it work the best I can if existing templates don't suit my needs. > There are times when Clooz simply can't do the exact export I need. > Luckily for me those times are few and far between. I've been using Clooz for > more years than I can count - since version 1. It's come a long way with many > improvements in the last couple of years and many more planned for the > future. Also, Support is awesome! > > Regards, > > Terri Rosnagel Brown > > Researching: Rosnagel, Thompson, Kibbee, Bovee, Slater, Stadler, Fuchs, > Hart, Eckersley Kibbee, Rosnagel, Slater, Thompson and Allied Lines > <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=ridgrnr> > Brown/Braun and Paul/Pawlowski > <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=jeepjim> > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:clooz- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Ralf M. via > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 5:23 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [CLOOZ] Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.? > > Hello all, > > Recently I asked on a mailing list how to enter information of different > documents into a genealogy software and then have the software help me > draw conclusions how to put together the pieces to form a family tree (as > opposed to having to draw my conclusions "offline" and enter the results > into the software). I was told to have a look at Clooz (and Evidentia). > > Watching the introductory videos Evidentia seems to require a lot of typing, > so I rather had a closer look at Clooz. By now I have watched all the Clooz > videos and read nearly the complete manual. At first Clooz looked very > promising, but then doubts started whether the software really helps with > what I would like to achieve. So I decided to ask here about it rather than try > the software not knowing how to use it. > > Among several concerns my main worry is the following: > > Clooz seems to be geared towards documents that contain details about > people (and cover a single event). Census data are like that, and the > examples in the videos use census data. > However, most of my documents are register records and focus on > relationships between people (parents and child, spouses with their parents > and possibly children, ...). There are also population register records that > typically document multiple events. > > Does Clooz handle such documents properly? > > E.g. I enter a birth record into Clooz (newborn and parents) and export that > to GEDCOM. Will the GEDCOM contain the fact that the newborn is the child > of the parents? After all a birth record is the most official document I will ever > get for the fact who the parents of the newborn are. > I am somewhat doubtful due to the explanations in the "Families Tab" > section of the manual. > > Things get even worse for a marriage record, which documents the married > couple and the parents of bride and groom, often supplemented by > information about children of the couple. In essence a marriage record often > proves a three generation family tree. And thus I expect the GEDCOM which > Clooz generates from such a marriage record to contain the three generation > family tree. > > Does Clooz work like that? > > Finally an example of a population register record. These were often kept on > index cards. The front side of such an index card contains information about > the people, like > Husband Adam Schmitt, born 21.3.1895 Berlin > Wife Berta Schmitt nee Meyer born 18.5.1899 Berlin > Child 1 Charlotte born 13.8.1920 Berlin > Child 2 David born 7.7.1922 Berlin > Child ... > (This does not necessarily imply that husband and wife are the parents of the > children, only that the children live in the household.) The back side of such > an index card contains information about their moves. A card from Hamburg > might look like > 15.9.1930 Adam from Berlin to Nordkanalstr. 25 > 1.12.1930 Adam from Nordkanalstr. 25 to Altonaer Str. 77 > 1.1.1931 Berta, Charlotte, David from Berlin to Altonaer Str. 77 > 1.5.1932 Family from Altonaer Str. 77 to Kanalstr. 8 > 27.3.1936 Charlotte from Kanalstr. 8 to Kiel > 9.8.1936 Charlotte from Kiel to Kanalstr. 8 > 1.8.1940 David from Kanalstr. 8 to Wilhelmshafen (military service) > 23.3.1941 Charlotte from Kanalstr. 8 to Billstr. 15 (now own card) > ... > There are occasionally further information on these index cards; I have seen > changes of religion and changes of citizenchip (both with a date). > > Is it possible to enter the content of such an index card (including the back > side) as a document in Clooz? > > > I'd be happy about any answers and how-to-explanations. > > Best regards, > Ralf M. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

    03/22/2016 05:11:27