Hi Liz, I sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you after sending you my money for the program. I had a little problem that has slowed me down. I had a heart attack and had to have 3 stents put in to the arteries that supply blood to my heart. It is taking time to get back up and running on all cylinders. I would like to try to download the program now if it's OK with you. If so would you be so kind to tell me how I go about it. Be Well Joe McDonald

Mike, yes the line number field is a text field and in order to get the line numbers to print in order, you need to put in 01, 02, etc. if you have more than 9 people. At 12:06 AM 9/20/2006, you wrote: >Are you out there, Liz? > >I've just hit another question about a census report. This issue is so >obvious that you are probably already aware of it, but I thought I would >mention it just on the off chance that it hasn't been reported. I just >printed a census report for a US 1860 census. In this particular record I >have more than 10 linked people some of whom have single digit line numbers, >and some of whom have double digit line numbers. The lines on the report >printed out of numeric order. What I got was: > >1,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,2,22,23,7,8,9 > >Rather than: > >1,2,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,22,23 > >So, has the line number field been established as an alphanumeric field as a >matter of necessity? Will I always need to number all of my line numbers >that are less than 10 as 01, 02, 03 etc. in order to get them to print >properly on the report? And I haven't tried this in any of the other census >years, because I haven't entered any other large groups of people in one >record. > >Thanks >Mike D. > >-----Original Message----- >From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On >Behalf Of Elizabeth Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL >Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:11 PM >To: clooz@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Unable to generate US 1870 census report from Clooz 2 > >At 06:04 PM 9/19/2006, you wrote: > >I am a relatively new Clooz user, working with Clooz 2. I have been > >generating printed reports for 1920 and 1930 census records for several > >weeks now, and last night and today I have been trying unsuccessfully to > >generate reports for 1870 US census records. > >Mike, this is a bug in Clooz 2.0. We have fixed it in 2.1, which I am >really hoping to release by the end of October. So in the interim, >you won't be able to print the 1870 US census report. But you will >when 2.1 is released. > >Liz Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL @>---- >Ancestor Detective, LLC >http://www.ancestordetective.com >Creator of Clooz, http://www.clooz.com >Editor of Digital Genealogist, http://www.digitalgenealogist.com >Editor of NGS NewsMagazine and UpFront, http://www.ngsgenealogy.org > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in >the subject and the body of the message > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message Liz Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL @>---- Ancestor Detective, LLC http://www.ancestordetective.com Creator of Clooz, http://www.clooz.com Editor of Digital Genealogist, http://www.digitalgenealogist.com Editor of NGS NewsMagazine and UpFront, http://www.ngsgenealogy.org

Are you out there, Liz? I've just hit another question about a census report. This issue is so obvious that you are probably already aware of it, but I thought I would mention it just on the off chance that it hasn't been reported. I just printed a census report for a US 1860 census. In this particular record I have more than 10 linked people some of whom have single digit line numbers, and some of whom have double digit line numbers. The lines on the report printed out of numeric order. What I got was: 1,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,2,22,23,7,8,9 Rather than: 1,2,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,22,23 So, has the line number field been established as an alphanumeric field as a matter of necessity? Will I always need to number all of my line numbers that are less than 10 as 01, 02, 03 etc. in order to get them to print properly on the report? And I haven't tried this in any of the other census years, because I haven't entered any other large groups of people in one record. Thanks Mike D. -----Original Message----- From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:11 PM To: clooz@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Unable to generate US 1870 census report from Clooz 2 At 06:04 PM 9/19/2006, you wrote: >I am a relatively new Clooz user, working with Clooz 2. I have been >generating printed reports for 1920 and 1930 census records for several >weeks now, and last night and today I have been trying unsuccessfully to >generate reports for 1870 US census records. Mike, this is a bug in Clooz 2.0. We have fixed it in 2.1, which I am really hoping to release by the end of October. So in the interim, you won't be able to print the 1870 US census report. But you will when 2.1 is released. Liz Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL @>---- Ancestor Detective, LLC http://www.ancestordetective.com Creator of Clooz, http://www.clooz.com Editor of Digital Genealogist, http://www.digitalgenealogist.com Editor of NGS NewsMagazine and UpFront, http://www.ngsgenealogy.org ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Liz Thanks for the response. I had a suspicion that it was a bug, when I still couldn't generate the report with a bare-minimum record. But I'm glad you already knew about it, because that greatly reduces the time until the fix is available. I'm really looking forward to seeing all of the reports in the next release. Hard-copy reports are truly the heart if not the soul of nearly any database application. Thanks again. Mike D. -----Original Message----- From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:11 PM To: clooz@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Unable to generate US 1870 census report from Clooz 2 At 06:04 PM 9/19/2006, you wrote: >I am a relatively new Clooz user, working with Clooz 2. I have been >generating printed reports for 1920 and 1930 census records for several >weeks now, and last night and today I have been trying unsuccessfully to >generate reports for 1870 US census records. Mike, this is a bug in Clooz 2.0. We have fixed it in 2.1, which I am really hoping to release by the end of October. So in the interim, you won't be able to print the 1870 US census report. But you will when 2.1 is released. Liz Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL @>---- Ancestor Detective, LLC http://www.ancestordetective.com Creator of Clooz, http://www.clooz.com Editor of Digital Genealogist, http://www.digitalgenealogist.com Editor of NGS NewsMagazine and UpFront, http://www.ngsgenealogy.org ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

At 06:04 PM 9/19/2006, you wrote: >I am a relatively new Clooz user, working with Clooz 2. I have been >generating printed reports for 1920 and 1930 census records for several >weeks now, and last night and today I have been trying unsuccessfully to >generate reports for 1870 US census records. Mike, this is a bug in Clooz 2.0. We have fixed it in 2.1, which I am really hoping to release by the end of October. So in the interim, you won't be able to print the 1870 US census report. But you will when 2.1 is released. Liz Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL @>---- Ancestor Detective, LLC http://www.ancestordetective.com Creator of Clooz, http://www.clooz.com Editor of Digital Genealogist, http://www.digitalgenealogist.com Editor of NGS NewsMagazine and UpFront, http://www.ngsgenealogy.org

Hi I am a relatively new Clooz user, working with Clooz 2. I have been generating printed reports for 1920 and 1930 census records for several weeks now, and last night and today I have been trying unsuccessfully to generate reports for 1870 US census records. The following are the steps I am taking in generating the report: I select Reports - Censuses - Censuses by Country - USA - Population - 1870 from the Clooz menu. Then I select the census I want from the list. Then I hit the "Run Report" button. Clooz thinks for a while, and then, instead of generating my report to the screen, it gives me the error message that I have attached to this message. At first I thought maybe I had a problem with my data. But it doesn't seem to matter which of my 1870 records I try to generate the report for. I get the same error message every time. I even tried running the report with a really stripped down test record, one that had the bare minimum of data in the parent census record and with only 1 person attached to it. I tried the report first with no detailed data entered for that person, and then with a tiny bit of detailed information. I still got the same result. One interesting aspect of the problem is that the error message always references a month number between 1 and 12. But I still get that same message even if there isn't any date information in the record that I am trying to print. Is there something I am overlooking here? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Mike Daugherty

Greetings, I am happy to announce that the new Clooz 2 Tutorial is now available on CD from the Ancestor Detective online store. The Tutorial requires Windows XP, as does Clooz 2, and can be played on your computer while you're learning to use Clooz. The Tutorial sells for $18.95, plus shipping. You can order from this link: http://www.goestores.com/catalog.aspx?Merchant=ancestordetectivellc&DeptID=80520 Liz Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL @>---- Ancestor Detective, LLC http://www.ancestordetective.com Creator of Clooz, http://www.clooz.com Editor of Digital Genealogist, http://www.digitalgenealogist.com Editor of NGS NewsMagazine and UpFront, http://www.ngsgenealogy.org

Here's a plea for some simplification of posts. There is an amazing amount of information in the user posts and in Liz's prompt and thoughtful replies BUT it is not necessary to include the entire thread back several generations of posts when replying. It makes for very large emails AND it is difficult to sort out the new info etc from the volume of repeated info. It is often very helpful to requote a sentence or two, so as to put an answer in context, but please don't repeat and re-repeat the previous posts. I thank you and my email box thanks you too. Bruce

Yes, please send me yours. Mine is cng1942@earthlink.net and I await your reply Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mike Daugherty Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 1:31 PM To: clooz@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Data entry questions from a rank beginner Hi Carolyn I would love to have a copy of your Access DB to try out. Although I have very little genealogical research experience (which should be painfully obvious from the content of my messages both here and at TMG), I do have a fair amount of database development experience. I started using The Master Genealogist software about 2 months ago, after becoming frustrated with the limitations of Family Tree Maker. I like TMG better and better with each passing week. But it has a learning curve that practically brings tears to my eyes. The problem with learning TMG is that it will let you do just about anything you want, meaning that there are so many different ways to do nearly anything that it is often difficult for the novice (like me) to know what they SHOULD do to handle a given situation. But like most genealogical softwares, it has no real mechanism for tracking documents. That brought me to Clooz. What would be really cool would be if there was a document management software that would work hand-in-hand with TMG. I've been bugging Bob Velke and the other folks at Wholly Genes about incorporating a document management module into a future release of TMG, but talk about major tasks...(and probably a futile wish). So presently I'm doing a little duplicate data entry (not a lot, actually, because the people records in Clooz don't hold a lot of information). The biggest, and most dangerous task, is in using the Alternate ID field in Clooz to correlate my people records from Clooz with my people from TMG. This means, of course, that I can never use the renumbering utility in TMG without either screwing up the relationship to numbers in the Alternate ID field in Clooz, or necessitating that I manually renumber them to keep them in sync. I am finding Clooz 2 to be really enjoyable to use, though. It is obvious that a lot of time and effort went into its development, and I am finding it to be much easier to understand and use than its (few) competitors. Do you need my direct email address? Thanks Mike -----Original Message----- From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Gibbons Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 1:29 PM To: clooz@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Data entry questions from a rank beginner Mike - I used (need to catch back up, like with everything) for organizing and really like it. But I do not use it for census. I have taken ACCESS and have devised my own census, tweaking it over the last 15 or so years. I have ID numbers in it so you can search for people or for surname or for practically any other field. If you think it would go through, and if you are an ACCESS user, I would be happy to share the blank database with you. You can change it to your own needs best. I know if I were doing it from scratch, there are a couple of changes I would make to it. That goes for anyone else using CLOOZ. (Is this all right Liz?) Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mike Daugherty Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 1:12 PM To: clooz@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Data entry questions from a rank beginner Hi Liz Thanks for the comments. When I looked back over my email of the past couple of days, it seemed to me as if I haven't done anything but complain about Clooz since I started using it. I would like to assure you that in my opinion, the positives of this application far, far outweigh the few negatives that I have seen. I am also especially impressed by the responsive and helpful attitude of your user community. You must spend a LOT of time at this effort. I was certain that adding the ability to order and retain the order of the linked people grid in the census form would be a lot of effort, but it seemed worth asking for, because of the fact that you lose all of your detailed information if you "unlink" and then "re-link" people in the proper order. Thus there isn't really a work-around for the issue. So if it can ever be incorporated into a future release of Clooz, it would sure be a nice thing to have. If the quality of the reports that are in the system so far are any indication, I'm really looking forward to seeing the version with all of the reports available. One of my many hats that I have worn over the past 20 years or so has been as a report designer and writer for the DOD - first in old DOS applications that no-one today has ever heard of, then in ORACLE, then in ORACLE 3rd party tools, then some Access and some FoxPro. I've been really impressed with the quality of the reports that are in place now. I can hardly wait to see the rest of them. Thanks Mike D. -----Original Message----- From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 12:16 PM To: clooz@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Data entry questions from a rank beginner At 10:31 PM 8/31/2006, you wrote: >I had hoped there might be a work-around to question 1, or that I was just >wrong about it. I have only been using Clooz for 2 days and have only >entered a handful of records, but I can see that having forms autofill with >repetitive data is of great benefit. But in just 2 days I have >inadvertently answered "Yes" 3 times when I should have said "No". Mike, I'll have to add this to the wish list. It won't be added to version 2.1. >In question 3, Terri raises an interesting point with her comment. It is a >fine feature that you can reorder the people in the linked people grid in >the census window by clicking on the headers, but when you exit from the >form and return to it, the people have returned to whatever arbitrary sort >order has been established for them when the form was designed. But since >the columns are re-orderable at will within the grid, my problem would be >solved if the grid had just 1 more column in it. If only the "Line #" could >be in the grid too!! Though I'm sure that would probably be a major pain in >the kabookie to accomplish because all of the fields that are displayed >currently in the grid are from the table that holds an individual person's >information, whereas the Line # has got to be in a completely different data >table. It sure would be nice, though, to be able to see the rows at this >point in the order in which they will appear on the census report. I actually asked my programmer about adding the ability for this grid to retain it's order and he said it would be a massive rework, so we're not willing to do that at this time, but will consider it for the future. Adding the line # to the list of people linked to a document will not happen because, as you point out, the data is coming from a different location. > >From what you ladies say about question 4, I assume that what I had observed >during the "unlink" process was true. But it would seem to me that the >developers should consider the possibility of a safety net here, so that >your data doesn't get deleted so easily, especially if you get your eyes >crossed and unlink the wrong person, like I did this afternoon when I had >two individuals one row apart, one of whom was named James and the other >John. This is especially important, since the vast majority of the census >information is entered in at the "detailed information" level. Something >like the mechanism that is in place when you hit the "Delete Census" button >would probably solve the problem adequately. When you click that button you >get a warning message telling you that you are about to delete the census >record and all linked records. You then have a "Yes" or "No" option. I >think something like that would also be helpful on the "Unlink" button. In earlier versions of Clooz I had the program ask to verify nearly everything a user did and users complained about the messages. So, I have minimized the amount of messages that ask the user for confirmation. >The last question (4) brings to mind something else right along those same >lines. If you [Esc] from the detailed information form, even after filling >in a lot of information, Clooz doesn't give you any warning that you are >going to lose all of the information that you have just entered. > >Furthermore, if you pull up an existing census record. >Unlink a person. >Hit [Esc]. >You then get an unsaved data message which indicates that you can avoid >losing your data by clicking "No". >Answer "No" which exits from the form. >Bring the census record back up - and the linked person that you removed is >still gone. > >The oppisite is also true: >Pull up an existing census record. >Link a person. >Hit [Esc]. >You then get an unsaved data message which indicates that you can avoid >saving your changes. >Answer "No" which exits from the form. >Bring the census record back up - and the linked person that you added is >still there. Linking and data entry are two different functions in Clooz. The escape button is there to allow you to escape and not make any changes to the data entered. But linking either happens or doesn't happen and is not, as you discovered, affected by the Escape button. As long as you realize how the program works, hopefully you can remember to use the appropriate buttons. This complete rewrite of Clooz took 5 years and has been a massive undertaking for me. I am a one-person company and don't have a corporation behind me to absorb time and costs, so any redesign is major and has to be considered from a time and cost perspective. But I do listen to all suggestions. Liz Kerstens ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Carolyn I would love to have a copy of your Access DB to try out. Although I have very little genealogical research experience (which should be painfully obvious from the content of my messages both here and at TMG), I do have a fair amount of database development experience. I started using The Master Genealogist software about 2 months ago, after becoming frustrated with the limitations of Family Tree Maker. I like TMG better and better with each passing week. But it has a learning curve that practically brings tears to my eyes. The problem with learning TMG is that it will let you do just about anything you want, meaning that there are so many different ways to do nearly anything that it is often difficult for the novice (like me) to know what they SHOULD do to handle a given situation. But like most genealogical softwares, it has no real mechanism for tracking documents. That brought me to Clooz. What would be really cool would be if there was a document management software that would work hand-in-hand with TMG. I've been bugging Bob Velke and the other folks at Wholly Genes about incorporating a document management module into a future release of TMG, but talk about major tasks...(and probably a futile wish). So presently I'm doing a little duplicate data entry (not a lot, actually, because the people records in Clooz don't hold a lot of information). The biggest, and most dangerous task, is in using the Alternate ID field in Clooz to correlate my people records from Clooz with my people from TMG. This means, of course, that I can never use the renumbering utility in TMG without either screwing up the relationship to numbers in the Alternate ID field in Clooz, or necessitating that I manually renumber them to keep them in sync. I am finding Clooz 2 to be really enjoyable to use, though. It is obvious that a lot of time and effort went into its development, and I am finding it to be much easier to understand and use than its (few) competitors. Do you need my direct email address? Thanks Mike -----Original Message----- From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Gibbons Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 1:29 PM To: clooz@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Data entry questions from a rank beginner Mike - I used (need to catch back up, like with everything) for organizing and really like it. But I do not use it for census. I have taken ACCESS and have devised my own census, tweaking it over the last 15 or so years. I have ID numbers in it so you can search for people or for surname or for practically any other field. If you think it would go through, and if you are an ACCESS user, I would be happy to share the blank database with you. You can change it to your own needs best. I know if I were doing it from scratch, there are a couple of changes I would make to it. That goes for anyone else using CLOOZ. (Is this all right Liz?) Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mike Daugherty Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 1:12 PM To: clooz@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Data entry questions from a rank beginner Hi Liz Thanks for the comments. When I looked back over my email of the past couple of days, it seemed to me as if I haven't done anything but complain about Clooz since I started using it. I would like to assure you that in my opinion, the positives of this application far, far outweigh the few negatives that I have seen. I am also especially impressed by the responsive and helpful attitude of your user community. You must spend a LOT of time at this effort. I was certain that adding the ability to order and retain the order of the linked people grid in the census form would be a lot of effort, but it seemed worth asking for, because of the fact that you lose all of your detailed information if you "unlink" and then "re-link" people in the proper order. Thus there isn't really a work-around for the issue. So if it can ever be incorporated into a future release of Clooz, it would sure be a nice thing to have. If the quality of the reports that are in the system so far are any indication, I'm really looking forward to seeing the version with all of the reports available. One of my many hats that I have worn over the past 20 years or so has been as a report designer and writer for the DOD - first in old DOS applications that no-one today has ever heard of, then in ORACLE, then in ORACLE 3rd party tools, then some Access and some FoxPro. I've been really impressed with the quality of the reports that are in place now. I can hardly wait to see the rest of them. Thanks Mike D. -----Original Message----- From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 12:16 PM To: clooz@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Data entry questions from a rank beginner At 10:31 PM 8/31/2006, you wrote: >I had hoped there might be a work-around to question 1, or that I was just >wrong about it. I have only been using Clooz for 2 days and have only >entered a handful of records, but I can see that having forms autofill with >repetitive data is of great benefit. But in just 2 days I have >inadvertently answered "Yes" 3 times when I should have said "No". Mike, I'll have to add this to the wish list. It won't be added to version 2.1. >In question 3, Terri raises an interesting point with her comment. It is a >fine feature that you can reorder the people in the linked people grid in >the census window by clicking on the headers, but when you exit from the >form and return to it, the people have returned to whatever arbitrary sort >order has been established for them when the form was designed. But since >the columns are re-orderable at will within the grid, my problem would be >solved if the grid had just 1 more column in it. If only the "Line #" could >be in the grid too!! Though I'm sure that would probably be a major pain in >the kabookie to accomplish because all of the fields that are displayed >currently in the grid are from the table that holds an individual person's >information, whereas the Line # has got to be in a completely different data >table. It sure would be nice, though, to be able to see the rows at this >point in the order in which they will appear on the census report. I actually asked my programmer about adding the ability for this grid to retain it's order and he said it would be a massive rework, so we're not willing to do that at this time, but will consider it for the future. Adding the line # to the list of people linked to a document will not happen because, as you point out, the data is coming from a different location. > >From what you ladies say about question 4, I assume that what I had observed >during the "unlink" process was true. But it would seem to me that the >developers should consider the possibility of a safety net here, so that >your data doesn't get deleted so easily, especially if you get your eyes >crossed and unlink the wrong person, like I did this afternoon when I had >two individuals one row apart, one of whom was named James and the other >John. This is especially important, since the vast majority of the census >information is entered in at the "detailed information" level. Something >like the mechanism that is in place when you hit the "Delete Census" button >would probably solve the problem adequately. When you click that button you >get a warning message telling you that you are about to delete the census >record and all linked records. You then have a "Yes" or "No" option. I >think something like that would also be helpful on the "Unlink" button. In earlier versions of Clooz I had the program ask to verify nearly everything a user did and users complained about the messages. So, I have minimized the amount of messages that ask the user for confirmation. >The last question (4) brings to mind something else right along those same >lines. If you [Esc] from the detailed information form, even after filling >in a lot of information, Clooz doesn't give you any warning that you are >going to lose all of the information that you have just entered. > >Furthermore, if you pull up an existing census record. >Unlink a person. >Hit [Esc]. >You then get an unsaved data message which indicates that you can avoid >losing your data by clicking "No". >Answer "No" which exits from the form. >Bring the census record back up - and the linked person that you removed is >still gone. > >The oppisite is also true: >Pull up an existing census record. >Link a person. >Hit [Esc]. >You then get an unsaved data message which indicates that you can avoid >saving your changes. >Answer "No" which exits from the form. >Bring the census record back up - and the linked person that you added is >still there. Linking and data entry are two different functions in Clooz. The escape button is there to allow you to escape and not make any changes to the data entered. But linking either happens or doesn't happen and is not, as you discovered, affected by the Escape button. As long as you realize how the program works, hopefully you can remember to use the appropriate buttons. This complete rewrite of Clooz took 5 years and has been a massive undertaking for me. I am a one-person company and don't have a corporation behind me to absorb time and costs, so any redesign is major and has to be considered from a time and cost perspective. But I do listen to all suggestions. Liz Kerstens ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mike, it will have to go on the wish list. There is no such facility now. Liz At 07:56 PM 9/1/2006, you wrote: >Hello > > > >Another question from one of the newest kids on the Clooz block. Can anyone >tell me if there is any mechanism in place within Clooz to facilitate the >copying of a previous source record into the source form to speed up data >entry (sort of like it does for autofilling information in the census detail >information form). Depending upon which grand theory of sources that you >ascribe to, you could conceivably have a great number of sources, many of >which might have a LOT of the same information in them. If there is such a >mechanism in place, I haven't tripped over it as yet. If there is not, I >would think it might be another nice thing to add to the wish list. > > > >Thanks > >Mike D. > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Another question from one of the newest kids on the Clooz block. Can anyone tell me if there is any mechanism in place within Clooz to facilitate the copying of a previous source record into the source form to speed up data entry (sort of like it does for autofilling information in the census detail information form). Depending upon which grand theory of sources that you ascribe to, you could conceivably have a great number of sources, many of which might have a LOT of the same information in them. If there is such a mechanism in place, I haven't tripped over it as yet. If there is not, I would think it might be another nice thing to add to the wish list. Thanks Mike D.

Mike - I used (need to catch back up, like with everything) for organizing and really like it. But I do not use it for census. I have taken ACCESS and have devised my own census, tweaking it over the last 15 or so years. I have ID numbers in it so you can search for people or for surname or for practically any other field. If you think it would go through, and if you are an ACCESS user, I would be happy to share the blank database with you. You can change it to your own needs best. I know if I were doing it from scratch, there are a couple of changes I would make to it. That goes for anyone else using CLOOZ. (Is this all right Liz?) Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mike Daugherty Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 1:12 PM To: clooz@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Data entry questions from a rank beginner Hi Liz Thanks for the comments. When I looked back over my email of the past couple of days, it seemed to me as if I haven't done anything but complain about Clooz since I started using it. I would like to assure you that in my opinion, the positives of this application far, far outweigh the few negatives that I have seen. I am also especially impressed by the responsive and helpful attitude of your user community. You must spend a LOT of time at this effort. I was certain that adding the ability to order and retain the order of the linked people grid in the census form would be a lot of effort, but it seemed worth asking for, because of the fact that you lose all of your detailed information if you "unlink" and then "re-link" people in the proper order. Thus there isn't really a work-around for the issue. So if it can ever be incorporated into a future release of Clooz, it would sure be a nice thing to have. If the quality of the reports that are in the system so far are any indication, I'm really looking forward to seeing the version with all of the reports available. One of my many hats that I have worn over the past 20 years or so has been as a report designer and writer for the DOD - first in old DOS applications that no-one today has ever heard of, then in ORACLE, then in ORACLE 3rd party tools, then some Access and some FoxPro. I've been really impressed with the quality of the reports that are in place now. I can hardly wait to see the rest of them. Thanks Mike D. -----Original Message----- From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 12:16 PM To: clooz@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Data entry questions from a rank beginner At 10:31 PM 8/31/2006, you wrote: >I had hoped there might be a work-around to question 1, or that I was just >wrong about it. I have only been using Clooz for 2 days and have only >entered a handful of records, but I can see that having forms autofill with >repetitive data is of great benefit. But in just 2 days I have >inadvertently answered "Yes" 3 times when I should have said "No". Mike, I'll have to add this to the wish list. It won't be added to version 2.1. >In question 3, Terri raises an interesting point with her comment. It is a >fine feature that you can reorder the people in the linked people grid in >the census window by clicking on the headers, but when you exit from the >form and return to it, the people have returned to whatever arbitrary sort >order has been established for them when the form was designed. But since >the columns are re-orderable at will within the grid, my problem would be >solved if the grid had just 1 more column in it. If only the "Line #" could >be in the grid too!! Though I'm sure that would probably be a major pain in >the kabookie to accomplish because all of the fields that are displayed >currently in the grid are from the table that holds an individual person's >information, whereas the Line # has got to be in a completely different data >table. It sure would be nice, though, to be able to see the rows at this >point in the order in which they will appear on the census report. I actually asked my programmer about adding the ability for this grid to retain it's order and he said it would be a massive rework, so we're not willing to do that at this time, but will consider it for the future. Adding the line # to the list of people linked to a document will not happen because, as you point out, the data is coming from a different location. > >From what you ladies say about question 4, I assume that what I had observed >during the "unlink" process was true. But it would seem to me that the >developers should consider the possibility of a safety net here, so that >your data doesn't get deleted so easily, especially if you get your eyes >crossed and unlink the wrong person, like I did this afternoon when I had >two individuals one row apart, one of whom was named James and the other >John. This is especially important, since the vast majority of the census >information is entered in at the "detailed information" level. Something >like the mechanism that is in place when you hit the "Delete Census" button >would probably solve the problem adequately. When you click that button you >get a warning message telling you that you are about to delete the census >record and all linked records. You then have a "Yes" or "No" option. I >think something like that would also be helpful on the "Unlink" button. In earlier versions of Clooz I had the program ask to verify nearly everything a user did and users complained about the messages. So, I have minimized the amount of messages that ask the user for confirmation. >The last question (4) brings to mind something else right along those same >lines. If you [Esc] from the detailed information form, even after filling >in a lot of information, Clooz doesn't give you any warning that you are >going to lose all of the information that you have just entered. > >Furthermore, if you pull up an existing census record. >Unlink a person. >Hit [Esc]. >You then get an unsaved data message which indicates that you can avoid >losing your data by clicking "No". >Answer "No" which exits from the form. >Bring the census record back up - and the linked person that you removed is >still gone. > >The oppisite is also true: >Pull up an existing census record. >Link a person. >Hit [Esc]. >You then get an unsaved data message which indicates that you can avoid >saving your changes. >Answer "No" which exits from the form. >Bring the census record back up - and the linked person that you added is >still there. Linking and data entry are two different functions in Clooz. The escape button is there to allow you to escape and not make any changes to the data entered. But linking either happens or doesn't happen and is not, as you discovered, affected by the Escape button. As long as you realize how the program works, hopefully you can remember to use the appropriate buttons. This complete rewrite of Clooz took 5 years and has been a massive undertaking for me. I am a one-person company and don't have a corporation behind me to absorb time and costs, so any redesign is major and has to be considered from a time and cost perspective. But I do listen to all suggestions. Liz Kerstens ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Liz Thanks for the comments. When I looked back over my email of the past couple of days, it seemed to me as if I haven't done anything but complain about Clooz since I started using it. I would like to assure you that in my opinion, the positives of this application far, far outweigh the few negatives that I have seen. I am also especially impressed by the responsive and helpful attitude of your user community. You must spend a LOT of time at this effort. I was certain that adding the ability to order and retain the order of the linked people grid in the census form would be a lot of effort, but it seemed worth asking for, because of the fact that you lose all of your detailed information if you "unlink" and then "re-link" people in the proper order. Thus there isn't really a work-around for the issue. So if it can ever be incorporated into a future release of Clooz, it would sure be a nice thing to have. If the quality of the reports that are in the system so far are any indication, I'm really looking forward to seeing the version with all of the reports available. One of my many hats that I have worn over the past 20 years or so has been as a report designer and writer for the DOD - first in old DOS applications that no-one today has ever heard of, then in ORACLE, then in ORACLE 3rd party tools, then some Access and some FoxPro. I've been really impressed with the quality of the reports that are in place now. I can hardly wait to see the rest of them. Thanks Mike D. -----Original Message----- From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Kelley Kerstens, CG, CGL Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 12:16 PM To: clooz@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Data entry questions from a rank beginner At 10:31 PM 8/31/2006, you wrote: >I had hoped there might be a work-around to question 1, or that I was just >wrong about it. I have only been using Clooz for 2 days and have only >entered a handful of records, but I can see that having forms autofill with >repetitive data is of great benefit. But in just 2 days I have >inadvertently answered "Yes" 3 times when I should have said "No". Mike, I'll have to add this to the wish list. It won't be added to version 2.1. >In question 3, Terri raises an interesting point with her comment. It is a >fine feature that you can reorder the people in the linked people grid in >the census window by clicking on the headers, but when you exit from the >form and return to it, the people have returned to whatever arbitrary sort >order has been established for them when the form was designed. But since >the columns are re-orderable at will within the grid, my problem would be >solved if the grid had just 1 more column in it. If only the "Line #" could >be in the grid too!! Though I'm sure that would probably be a major pain in >the kabookie to accomplish because all of the fields that are displayed >currently in the grid are from the table that holds an individual person's >information, whereas the Line # has got to be in a completely different data >table. It sure would be nice, though, to be able to see the rows at this >point in the order in which they will appear on the census report. I actually asked my programmer about adding the ability for this grid to retain it's order and he said it would be a massive rework, so we're not willing to do that at this time, but will consider it for the future. Adding the line # to the list of people linked to a document will not happen because, as you point out, the data is coming from a different location. > >From what you ladies say about question 4, I assume that what I had observed >during the "unlink" process was true. But it would seem to me that the >developers should consider the possibility of a safety net here, so that >your data doesn't get deleted so easily, especially if you get your eyes >crossed and unlink the wrong person, like I did this afternoon when I had >two individuals one row apart, one of whom was named James and the other >John. This is especially important, since the vast majority of the census >information is entered in at the "detailed information" level. Something >like the mechanism that is in place when you hit the "Delete Census" button >would probably solve the problem adequately. When you click that button you >get a warning message telling you that you are about to delete the census >record and all linked records. You then have a "Yes" or "No" option. I >think something like that would also be helpful on the "Unlink" button. In earlier versions of Clooz I had the program ask to verify nearly everything a user did and users complained about the messages. So, I have minimized the amount of messages that ask the user for confirmation. >The last question (4) brings to mind something else right along those same >lines. If you [Esc] from the detailed information form, even after filling >in a lot of information, Clooz doesn't give you any warning that you are >going to lose all of the information that you have just entered. > >Furthermore, if you pull up an existing census record. >Unlink a person. >Hit [Esc]. >You then get an unsaved data message which indicates that you can avoid >losing your data by clicking "No". >Answer "No" which exits from the form. >Bring the census record back up - and the linked person that you removed is >still gone. > >The oppisite is also true: >Pull up an existing census record. >Link a person. >Hit [Esc]. >You then get an unsaved data message which indicates that you can avoid >saving your changes. >Answer "No" which exits from the form. >Bring the census record back up - and the linked person that you added is >still there. Linking and data entry are two different functions in Clooz. The escape button is there to allow you to escape and not make any changes to the data entered. But linking either happens or doesn't happen and is not, as you discovered, affected by the Escape button. As long as you realize how the program works, hopefully you can remember to use the appropriate buttons. This complete rewrite of Clooz took 5 years and has been a massive undertaking for me. I am a one-person company and don't have a corporation behind me to absorb time and costs, so any redesign is major and has to be considered from a time and cost perspective. But I do listen to all suggestions. Liz Kerstens ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

At 10:31 PM 8/31/2006, you wrote: >I had hoped there might be a work-around to question 1, or that I was just >wrong about it. I have only been using Clooz for 2 days and have only >entered a handful of records, but I can see that having forms autofill with >repetitive data is of great benefit. But in just 2 days I have >inadvertently answered "Yes" 3 times when I should have said "No". Mike, I'll have to add this to the wish list. It won't be added to version 2.1. >In question 3, Terri raises an interesting point with her comment. It is a >fine feature that you can reorder the people in the linked people grid in >the census window by clicking on the headers, but when you exit from the >form and return to it, the people have returned to whatever arbitrary sort >order has been established for them when the form was designed. But since >the columns are re-orderable at will within the grid, my problem would be >solved if the grid had just 1 more column in it. If only the "Line #" could >be in the grid too!! Though I'm sure that would probably be a major pain in >the kabookie to accomplish because all of the fields that are displayed >currently in the grid are from the table that holds an individual person's >information, whereas the Line # has got to be in a completely different data >table. It sure would be nice, though, to be able to see the rows at this >point in the order in which they will appear on the census report. I actually asked my programmer about adding the ability for this grid to retain it's order and he said it would be a massive rework, so we're not willing to do that at this time, but will consider it for the future. Adding the line # to the list of people linked to a document will not happen because, as you point out, the data is coming from a different location. > >From what you ladies say about question 4, I assume that what I had observed >during the "unlink" process was true. But it would seem to me that the >developers should consider the possibility of a safety net here, so that >your data doesn't get deleted so easily, especially if you get your eyes >crossed and unlink the wrong person, like I did this afternoon when I had >two individuals one row apart, one of whom was named James and the other >John. This is especially important, since the vast majority of the census >information is entered in at the "detailed information" level. Something >like the mechanism that is in place when you hit the "Delete Census" button >would probably solve the problem adequately. When you click that button you >get a warning message telling you that you are about to delete the census >record and all linked records. You then have a "Yes" or "No" option. I >think something like that would also be helpful on the "Unlink" button. In earlier versions of Clooz I had the program ask to verify nearly everything a user did and users complained about the messages. So, I have minimized the amount of messages that ask the user for confirmation. >The last question (4) brings to mind something else right along those same >lines. If you [Esc] from the detailed information form, even after filling >in a lot of information, Clooz doesn't give you any warning that you are >going to lose all of the information that you have just entered. > >Furthermore, if you pull up an existing census record. >Unlink a person. >Hit [Esc]. >You then get an unsaved data message which indicates that you can avoid >losing your data by clicking "No". >Answer "No" which exits from the form. >Bring the census record back up - and the linked person that you removed is >still gone. > >The oppisite is also true: >Pull up an existing census record. >Link a person. >Hit [Esc]. >You then get an unsaved data message which indicates that you can avoid >saving your changes. >Answer "No" which exits from the form. >Bring the census record back up - and the linked person that you added is >still there. Linking and data entry are two different functions in Clooz. The escape button is there to allow you to escape and not make any changes to the data entered. But linking either happens or doesn't happen and is not, as you discovered, affected by the Escape button. As long as you realize how the program works, hopefully you can remember to use the appropriate buttons. This complete rewrite of Clooz took 5 years and has been a massive undertaking for me. I am a one-person company and don't have a corporation behind me to absorb time and costs, so any redesign is major and has to be considered from a time and cost perspective. But I do listen to all suggestions. Liz Kerstens

Hi My thanks to Georgia and Terri for the really helpful replies. I had hoped there might be a work-around to question 1, or that I was just wrong about it. I have only been using Clooz for 2 days and have only entered a handful of records, but I can see that having forms autofill with repetitive data is of great benefit. But in just 2 days I have inadvertently answered "Yes" 3 times when I should have said "No". As for question 2, after I got your replies, I did a more thorough search at the RootsWeb archive, and saw that the multiple-selection issue had already been reported. I was interested to see that this feature was already a part of the previous release. In question 3, Terri raises an interesting point with her comment. It is a fine feature that you can reorder the people in the linked people grid in the census window by clicking on the headers, but when you exit from the form and return to it, the people have returned to whatever arbitrary sort order has been established for them when the form was designed. But since the columns are re-orderable at will within the grid, my problem would be solved if the grid had just 1 more column in it. If only the "Line #" could be in the grid too!! Though I'm sure that would probably be a major pain in the kabookie to accomplish because all of the fields that are displayed currently in the grid are from the table that holds an individual person's information, whereas the Line # has got to be in a completely different data table. It sure would be nice, though, to be able to see the rows at this point in the order in which they will appear on the census report. >From what you ladies say about question 4, I assume that what I had observed during the "unlink" process was true. But it would seem to me that the developers should consider the possibility of a safety net here, so that your data doesn't get deleted so easily, especially if you get your eyes crossed and unlink the wrong person, like I did this afternoon when I had two individuals one row apart, one of whom was named James and the other John. This is especially important, since the vast majority of the census information is entered in at the "detailed information" level. Something like the mechanism that is in place when you hit the "Delete Census" button would probably solve the problem adequately. When you click that button you get a warning message telling you that you are about to delete the census record and all linked records. You then have a "Yes" or "No" option. I think something like that would also be helpful on the "Unlink" button. The last question (4) brings to mind something else right along those same lines. If you [Esc] from the detailed information form, even after filling in a lot of information, Clooz doesn't give you any warning that you are going to lose all of the information that you have just entered. Furthermore, if you pull up an existing census record. Unlink a person. Hit [Esc]. You then get an unsaved data message which indicates that you can avoid losing your data by clicking "No". Answer "No" which exits from the form. Bring the census record back up - and the linked person that you removed is still gone. The oppisite is also true: Pull up an existing census record. Link a person. Hit [Esc]. You then get an unsaved data message which indicates that you can avoid saving your changes. Answer "No" which exits from the form. Bring the census record back up - and the linked person that you added is still there. Mike D. -----Original Message----- From: clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:clooz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Terri Brown Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:45 PM To: clooz@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Data entry questions from a rank beginner Hi, Let me see if I can help. I've been using Clooz 2.0 regularly for a while now. YOU WROTE: 1. With an existing census record, where I have fully entered the > census data, linked multiple people to the record, and added detail > information for them - if I then double click on one of the linked people > to > view the detail information, Clooz asks me if I want to fill the detail > form > with the previous data and defaults to "Yes". If I accidentally hit "Yes" > at that point, rather than "No", will it destroy the detail information > that > has been entered and replace it with the previous record data? Might it > not > be better if this prompt only appeared when the record for the linked > person > does not yet contain any detailed information data? ANSWER: If you accidentally hit "Yes", any data existing in the detail form will be replaced. I have done it several times. Maybe Liz can put your idea on a "wishlist". YOU WROTE: 2. When I click the "Link People" button in the census form, Clooz only > allows me to select one person at a time from the people picklist, even > though I will probably normally have multiple people that I want to link > to > the census record. I tried every combination of "Ctrl-Click" or > "Shift-Click" that I have ever used in similar situations in other > softwares > to no avail. Am I doing something wrong here? Must people be linked one > at > a time? ANSWER: I believe this will be corrected in Clooz 2.1. YOU WROTE: 3. Is there any mechanism to "reorder" people in the linked people grid > on a census form? Ideally, (at least in my rather confused brain) it > would > seem like the first row in the grid should contain the uppermost row that > I > have entered from the census page (or perhaps the earliest line number). > But if I don't pick them initially from the pick list in the appropriate > order, they seem to end up in the form out of order, and with no way to > fix > it, short of unlinking them and starting over. But if I unlink people so > that I can reorder them, doesn't it destroy their related detailed > information? ANSWER: I think I understand what you are asking. You have to pick people in the order they appear in the census to accomplish what you are asking. You can reorder people by clicking on the column headers of ID, Alternate ID, Surname, Given Name, Birth/Baptism Date, Marriage Date, and Death/Burial Date. You can shift-click or ctrl-click on any combination of column headers, ie sort by Surname then Given Name then Death/Burial Date. A little arrow will appear on the right side of the column to show ascending or descending sort order. I would imagine that people will sort in proper order in the Reports. The reports will be completed in version 2.1. YOU WROTE: 4. Question 3 brings me to my final question (final for now. I'll > probably have a boat-load of really stupid questions to ask before all is > said and done). If I "unlink" a person from a census record, they > immediately vanish from the data entry grid. Is that person now GONE, > along > with all of the detailed information that has been entered for them? Or > if > I then escape from the form rather than saving changes, will it all > reappear? If it really is gone, in such a case as this, other > applications > that I have used would prompt you with some sort of "Are you sure" message > before allowing the deletion of the information. ANSWER: Once a person in "unlinked" from any template, including census, that person's information is completely removed from the template. Escaping from the form does not retain the unlinked information. I hope this makes sense and helps. Terri ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Daugherty" <mmj7806@adelphia.net> To: <CLOOZ@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:23 PM Subject: [CLOOZ] Data entry questions from a rank beginner > Hi > > > > I am very new to the Clooz community, and to the document management > community in general, for that matter. I just purchased and began using > Clooz 2.0 a couple of days ago. I bought the product initially to use in > trying to make some sense of the mound of census records that I have been > accumulating as I do family research for entry into The Master > Genealogist. > > > > I really like the straight-forward nature of the program and the relative > ease of data entry. This is especially appreciated in comparison to the > bear that TMG is to learn to use. I don't mean to run TMG down here. > It's > a great product, but it has a learning curve that leaves me breathless > sometimes. > > > > So far I have only used the people and 1930 and 1920 U.S. census forms in > Clooz. My data entry questions at this point all relate to census records > and are as follows: > > > > 1. With an existing census record, where I have fully entered the > census data, linked multiple people to the record, and added detail > information for them - if I then double click on one of the linked people > to > view the detail information, Clooz asks me if I want to fill the detail > form > with the previous data and defaults to "Yes". If I accidentally hit "Yes" > at that point, rather than "No", will it destroy the detail information > that > has been entered and replace it with the previous record data? Might it > not > be better if this prompt only appeared when the record for the linked > person > does not yet contain any detailed information data? > > > > 2. When I click the "Link People" button in the census form, Clooz only > allows me to select one person at a time from the people picklist, even > though I will probably normally have multiple people that I want to link > to > the census record. I tried every combination of "Ctrl-Click" or > "Shift-Click" that I have ever used in similar situations in other > softwares > to no avail. Am I doing something wrong here? Must people be linked one > at > a time? > > > > 3. Is there any mechanism to "reorder" people in the linked people grid > on a census form? Ideally, (at least in my rather confused brain) it > would > seem like the first row in the grid should contain the uppermost row that > I > have entered from the census page (or perhaps the earliest line number). > But if I don't pick them initially from the pick list in the appropriate > order, they seem to end up in the form out of order, and with no way to > fix > it, short of unlinking them and starting over. But if I unlink people so > that I can reorder them, doesn't it destroy their related detailed > information? > > > > 4. Question 3 brings me to my final question (final for now. I'll > probably have a boat-load of really stupid questions to ask before all is > said and done). If I "unlink" a person from a census record, they > immediately vanish from the data entry grid. Is that person now GONE, > along > with all of the detailed information that has been entered for them? Or > if > I then escape from the form rather than saving changes, will it all > reappear? If it really is gone, in such a case as this, other > applications > that I have used would prompt you with some sort of "Are you sure" message > before allowing the deletion of the information. > > > > Any advice regarding these questions would be greatly appreciated (or any > other Clooz advice, for that matter). > > > > Thanks > > > > Mike D. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, Let me see if I can help. I've been using Clooz 2.0 regularly for a while now. YOU WROTE: 1. With an existing census record, where I have fully entered the > census data, linked multiple people to the record, and added detail > information for them - if I then double click on one of the linked people > to > view the detail information, Clooz asks me if I want to fill the detail > form > with the previous data and defaults to "Yes". If I accidentally hit "Yes" > at that point, rather than "No", will it destroy the detail information > that > has been entered and replace it with the previous record data? Might it > not > be better if this prompt only appeared when the record for the linked > person > does not yet contain any detailed information data? ANSWER: If you accidentally hit "Yes", any data existing in the detail form will be replaced. I have done it several times. Maybe Liz can put your idea on a "wishlist". YOU WROTE: 2. When I click the "Link People" button in the census form, Clooz only > allows me to select one person at a time from the people picklist, even > though I will probably normally have multiple people that I want to link > to > the census record. I tried every combination of "Ctrl-Click" or > "Shift-Click" that I have ever used in similar situations in other > softwares > to no avail. Am I doing something wrong here? Must people be linked one > at > a time? ANSWER: I believe this will be corrected in Clooz 2.1. YOU WROTE: 3. Is there any mechanism to "reorder" people in the linked people grid > on a census form? Ideally, (at least in my rather confused brain) it > would > seem like the first row in the grid should contain the uppermost row that > I > have entered from the census page (or perhaps the earliest line number). > But if I don't pick them initially from the pick list in the appropriate > order, they seem to end up in the form out of order, and with no way to > fix > it, short of unlinking them and starting over. But if I unlink people so > that I can reorder them, doesn't it destroy their related detailed > information? ANSWER: I think I understand what you are asking. You have to pick people in the order they appear in the census to accomplish what you are asking. You can reorder people by clicking on the column headers of ID, Alternate ID, Surname, Given Name, Birth/Baptism Date, Marriage Date, and Death/Burial Date. You can shift-click or ctrl-click on any combination of column headers, ie sort by Surname then Given Name then Death/Burial Date. A little arrow will appear on the right side of the column to show ascending or descending sort order. I would imagine that people will sort in proper order in the Reports. The reports will be completed in version 2.1. YOU WROTE: 4. Question 3 brings me to my final question (final for now. I'll > probably have a boat-load of really stupid questions to ask before all is > said and done). If I "unlink" a person from a census record, they > immediately vanish from the data entry grid. Is that person now GONE, > along > with all of the detailed information that has been entered for them? Or > if > I then escape from the form rather than saving changes, will it all > reappear? If it really is gone, in such a case as this, other > applications > that I have used would prompt you with some sort of "Are you sure" message > before allowing the deletion of the information. ANSWER: Once a person in "unlinked" from any template, including census, that person's information is completely removed from the template. Escaping from the form does not retain the unlinked information. I hope this makes sense and helps. Terri ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Daugherty" <mmj7806@adelphia.net> To: <CLOOZ@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:23 PM Subject: [CLOOZ] Data entry questions from a rank beginner > Hi > > > > I am very new to the Clooz community, and to the document management > community in general, for that matter. I just purchased and began using > Clooz 2.0 a couple of days ago. I bought the product initially to use in > trying to make some sense of the mound of census records that I have been > accumulating as I do family research for entry into The Master > Genealogist. > > > > I really like the straight-forward nature of the program and the relative > ease of data entry. This is especially appreciated in comparison to the > bear that TMG is to learn to use. I don't mean to run TMG down here. > It's > a great product, but it has a learning curve that leaves me breathless > sometimes. > > > > So far I have only used the people and 1930 and 1920 U.S. census forms in > Clooz. My data entry questions at this point all relate to census records > and are as follows: > > > > 1. With an existing census record, where I have fully entered the > census data, linked multiple people to the record, and added detail > information for them - if I then double click on one of the linked people > to > view the detail information, Clooz asks me if I want to fill the detail > form > with the previous data and defaults to "Yes". If I accidentally hit "Yes" > at that point, rather than "No", will it destroy the detail information > that > has been entered and replace it with the previous record data? Might it > not > be better if this prompt only appeared when the record for the linked > person > does not yet contain any detailed information data? > > > > 2. When I click the "Link People" button in the census form, Clooz only > allows me to select one person at a time from the people picklist, even > though I will probably normally have multiple people that I want to link > to > the census record. I tried every combination of "Ctrl-Click" or > "Shift-Click" that I have ever used in similar situations in other > softwares > to no avail. Am I doing something wrong here? Must people be linked one > at > a time? > > > > 3. Is there any mechanism to "reorder" people in the linked people grid > on a census form? Ideally, (at least in my rather confused brain) it > would > seem like the first row in the grid should contain the uppermost row that > I > have entered from the census page (or perhaps the earliest line number). > But if I don't pick them initially from the pick list in the appropriate > order, they seem to end up in the form out of order, and with no way to > fix > it, short of unlinking them and starting over. But if I unlink people so > that I can reorder them, doesn't it destroy their related detailed > information? > > > > 4. Question 3 brings me to my final question (final for now. I'll > probably have a boat-load of really stupid questions to ask before all is > said and done). If I "unlink" a person from a census record, they > immediately vanish from the data entry grid. Is that person now GONE, > along > with all of the detailed information that has been entered for them? Or > if > I then escape from the form rather than saving changes, will it all > reappear? If it really is gone, in such a case as this, other > applications > that I have used would prompt you with some sort of "Are you sure" message > before allowing the deletion of the information. > > > > Any advice regarding these questions would be greatly appreciated (or any > other Clooz advice, for that matter). > > > > Thanks > > > > Mike D. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Mike, I haven't really gotten into the new version yet but I will tell you what I can based on my experience with clooz 1.23. Comments follow your questions. You might prefer to hear from someone who is using the new version regularly. Georgia On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 17:23:27 -0400 "Mike Daugherty" <mmj7806@adelphia.net> writes: > Hi > > > > I am very new to the Clooz community, and to the document > management > community in general, for that matter. I just purchased and began > using > Clooz 2.0 a couple of days ago. I bought the product initially to > use in > trying to make some sense of the mound of census records that I have > been > accumulating as I do family research for entry into The Master > Genealogist. > > > > I really like the straight-forward nature of the program and the > relative > ease of data entry. This is especially appreciated in comparison to > the > bear that TMG is to learn to use. I don't mean to run TMG down > here. It's > a great product, but it has a learning curve that leaves me > breathless > sometimes. > > > > So far I have only used the people and 1930 and 1920 U.S. census > forms in > Clooz. My data entry questions at this point all relate to census > records > and are as follows: > > > > 1. With an existing census record, where I have fully entered > the > census data, linked multiple people to the record, and added detail > information for them - if I then double click on one of the linked > people to > view the detail information, Clooz asks me if I want to fill the > detail form > with the previous data and defaults to "Yes". If I accidentally hit > "Yes" > at that point, rather than "No", will it destroy the detail > information that > has been entered and replace it with the previous record data? > Might it not > be better if this prompt only appeared when the record for the > linked person > does not yet contain any detailed information data? ANSWER: Sounds like a good idea to me. But, then, I have gotten used to being very careful of what I do when I go back in a record . Still, with many of the records, having it filled in really helps. In fact there are some of the ones that I wish would enter more of the previous record automatically. > > > > 2. When I click the "Link People" button in the census form, > Clooz only > allows me to select one person at a time from the people picklist, > even > though I will probably normally have multiple people that I want to > link to > the census record. I tried every combination of "Ctrl-Click" or > "Shift-Click" that I have ever used in similar situations in other > softwares > to no avail. Am I doing something wrong here? Must people be > linked one at > a time? ANSWER-This is the way version 1.23 worked and I believe Liz said that it has been fixed in the completed clooz 2 which is supposed to come out soon. Apparently, this clooz II is a test version. That is one of the reasons I have not entered any data. > > > > 3. Is there any mechanism to "reorder" people in the linked > people grid > on a census form? Ideally, (at least in my rather confused brain) > it would > seem like the first row in the grid should contain the uppermost row > that I > have entered from the census page (or perhaps the earliest line > number). > But if I don't pick them initially from the pick list in the > appropriate > order, they seem to end up in the form out of order, and with no way > to fix > it, short of unlinking them and starting over. But if I unlink > people so > that I can reorder them, doesn't it destroy their related detailed > information? ANSWER. I am not sure if I understand. If you mean the form that looks like a census after you have entered all the information, did you put the line number that appears next to the person on the census in? That is what keeps them in the order that they appear on the census form (or at least that is how clooz 1.23 works.) Or are you talking about entering the people in the census template from which you then enter the details. The one where everyone is in alphabetical order with the women having their maiden names displayed. If the latter, I have had problems with that because so many of my Germans have the son with the same name as the father and the daughter has the same first name as the mother and I forget that the mother is under her maiden name and I end up entering the father's info under the son. Especially if the son appear first because of his ID number. > > > > 4. Question 3 brings me to my final question (final for now. > I'll > probably have a boat-load of really stupid questions to ask before > all is > said and done). If I "unlink" a person from a census record, they > immediately vanish from the data entry grid. Is that person now > GONE, along > with all of the detailed information that has been entered for them? > Or if > I then escape from the form rather than saving changes, will it all > reappear? If it really is gone, in such a case as this, other > applications > that I have used would prompt you with some sort of "Are you sure" > message > before allowing the deletion of the information. ANSWER. I think that you are talking about deleting a person on the template where you have the person's ID number, name and "details". The person is gone from that record only. Unless something has changed in the new version, you don't save changes after entering the information. They just stay there. You "archive" after completely entered everything for that day. Again, with clooz 1.23, you can only "archive" once a day. Unless you are talking about saving your records to a CD or disk. I sure hope that what was true for 1.23 is true for version 2. I am sure that if Liz is in town, she will probably answer you as well as others. > > > > Any advice regarding these questions would be greatly appreciated > (or any > other Clooz advice, for that matter). > > > > Thanks > > > > Mike D. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi I am very new to the Clooz community, and to the document management community in general, for that matter. I just purchased and began using Clooz 2.0 a couple of days ago. I bought the product initially to use in trying to make some sense of the mound of census records that I have been accumulating as I do family research for entry into The Master Genealogist. I really like the straight-forward nature of the program and the relative ease of data entry. This is especially appreciated in comparison to the bear that TMG is to learn to use. I don't mean to run TMG down here. It's a great product, but it has a learning curve that leaves me breathless sometimes. So far I have only used the people and 1930 and 1920 U.S. census forms in Clooz. My data entry questions at this point all relate to census records and are as follows: 1. With an existing census record, where I have fully entered the census data, linked multiple people to the record, and added detail information for them - if I then double click on one of the linked people to view the detail information, Clooz asks me if I want to fill the detail form with the previous data and defaults to "Yes". If I accidentally hit "Yes" at that point, rather than "No", will it destroy the detail information that has been entered and replace it with the previous record data? Might it not be better if this prompt only appeared when the record for the linked person does not yet contain any detailed information data? 2. When I click the "Link People" button in the census form, Clooz only allows me to select one person at a time from the people picklist, even though I will probably normally have multiple people that I want to link to the census record. I tried every combination of "Ctrl-Click" or "Shift-Click" that I have ever used in similar situations in other softwares to no avail. Am I doing something wrong here? Must people be linked one at a time? 3. Is there any mechanism to "reorder" people in the linked people grid on a census form? Ideally, (at least in my rather confused brain) it would seem like the first row in the grid should contain the uppermost row that I have entered from the census page (or perhaps the earliest line number). But if I don't pick them initially from the pick list in the appropriate order, they seem to end up in the form out of order, and with no way to fix it, short of unlinking them and starting over. But if I unlink people so that I can reorder them, doesn't it destroy their related detailed information? 4. Question 3 brings me to my final question (final for now. I'll probably have a boat-load of really stupid questions to ask before all is said and done). If I "unlink" a person from a census record, they immediately vanish from the data entry grid. Is that person now GONE, along with all of the detailed information that has been entered for them? Or if I then escape from the form rather than saving changes, will it all reappear? If it really is gone, in such a case as this, other applications that I have used would prompt you with some sort of "Are you sure" message before allowing the deletion of the information. Any advice regarding these questions would be greatly appreciated (or any other Clooz advice, for that matter). Thanks Mike D.

Dick, there is no recent fix. Not sure what you're talking about. Just download Clooz and reinstall it. You'll be fine. The new version of Clooz will hopefully be out in October. Liz At 07:37 AM 8/31/2006, Dick Davis wrote: >After getting the operating system and the various customizations back - >yes all is back and operating now - I am wondering if I download the >version of Clooz from the website, install it - will it have the most >recent fix that was put out? > >I have all my data backed up and restored - so no data loss - just >wondering about the re-installation of the program. > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CLOOZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message