I'm thinking of filing two like documents i.e. (single sheet death certificates for two different people) back to back in the same plastic sleeve numbering them Death 001A and Death 001B. Does anyone see a potential problem in doing this? Elise Morris

My Clooz CD has just arrived. (Thanks, Liz!) However, I have a very temperamental computer here which crashes at the drop of a hat. I downloaded the Demo--should I uninstall that before I load from the disk? Regards, Stella Howlett BC, Canada

> What do you use as a source when you found the record/info on an LDS > film? > FHL Film No. > FHC Film No. > LDS Film No. FHL is "family history library" and FHC is "family history center." The FHC is a *physical location* and has nothing to do with the name of the film you view. It is the local center that arranges the loan of the film from the FHL -- only one exists, in Salt Lake City. Everyone will have their own ideas, I'm sure. That's what makes the list great, because we can share and ease our way along. My first inclination was to say "FHL" film number, but then as I shared the meaning of those acronyms I realized some folks might find that confusing and think you viewed the film on-site in Salt Lake City; no? So then I thought that, well, it would be better to use "LDS" for your film number source names. That said -- and just to add another layer of possible confusion <g> to this upcoming discussion, I thought about my own purposes. And this is what I would do: I'd use the NAME OF THE DOCUMENT-BOOK-WHATEVER as the source name. I'd use the film number in the other fields of the master source information. (In fact, I just opened Clooz to double-check and yes, I verified that the Source information you fill in includes a special field/box to insert the film number. That aside, the reason (even if Liz didn't give a special field to list the film) I'd use the name "Patron Batch Sheet" or "St. Agnes Baptismal Records" et cetera is because I lack the ability to remember numbers, especially in long lists of them, and know what that number means. Does that make sense? In other words, if I had a list of documents "LDS 0103650" and then LDS 163854 and then LDS 847326 -- I wouldn't have a single clue as to what that document contains in the way of useful information for me. > > OK, now what do you use when it was a census film you read at a Natl > Archives? Again, I'd use the listing of what it was I viewed: the 1860 census or the state 1845 census, etc. Following suit to my prior comments, I'd first give it an identifier that helps me easily ascertain just what the document contains. First I give the file name a label that begins with the first four letters of the family most included in that document (let's use the census from Missouri in 1860, for example). The family I'd be looking for is MOREAU, so the document identification number would start out MORE and then I'd put a space and then the first three letters of the type of record, in this case "Cen" and then I'd follow the sequential-numbering most easily associated with this program. Therefore, an 1860 census document for Moreau in Missouri would be: MORE Cen 001. I don't bother with a state identifier or a year identifier in this labeling because Liz's census hub will show me that in the other columns to the right of this label: Year, County, State, Country. Why clutter up the ID for this census listing with information that will easily be available to me? Why not include other identifiers that will make it easier for this poor old, getting-vaguer-with-every-year memory to simply click on a document I want without having to spend valuable, diminishing brain cells to consciously *think* if this is the right document? :-) I settled on this system of labeling because I'd just spent almost four months selecting a system that worked best for me based on a book by Sharon DeBartelo Carmack, something like "Organizing your family search" that was available at my local public library. I'd color coded files: yellow for my husband's paternal line (dirt farmers....), green for his maternal line (Irish), red for my paternal (here for the War of Independence) and blue for my maternal (so English....). Each family has a group of files in the appropriate color-coding fashion. So my husband's maternal line (Duffy, for the direct line) would be as follows: DUFFY Birth Records DUFFY Census Records DUFFY Church Records DUFFY City Directories DUFFY Death Records DUFFY Genealogy - Fam. Grp Sheets/Hobbyist Info DUFFY Genealogy - Published articles, etc. DUFFY Immigration & Naturalization DUFFY Land Records and so on, including Military Newspaper Obituaries, Wills and Probates School Records Tax Records Hmm, I still sometimes think: If I have a church baptismal record but don't have a government birth record, where should it go, in the "birth" or "church" file? So things aren't perfect, but I found during my office career that there's as many types of filing logic as there are people that have access to files (or more, sometimes, it seems .... <g>) The bottom line is that you decide what works logically for *you* and you stick to it. This is why I'm enjoying having Clooz: I'm rummaging through fewer "files" to find something, it's easy to "take with me" lots more information, and when I "shut the file drawer" it pops back into the place I selected. <g> As for the paper files, yes, I print out a copy of the Clooz input for that document and put that print-out in the file for, say, the bride in the marriage listing (I put that document into the groom's surname files, since that's the accepted practice for family group sheets and other genealogy pedigrees, etc.). For those instances -- back to the census report -- where I have found a mother-in-law, say, of the family head listed in that dwelling (i.e., the mother of his wife) -- where the last name of one person listed in that census record won't logically be kept in that [surname] Census file, I simply have a log sheet that I keep in the front of each file and comment on it "See [surname] Census." Again, the beauty of Clooz: Now I can put a simple number at the end of that notation and the darned documents have a place to "call their own"! And when I do need to refer back to the original (much less frequent a necessity now, once it's in Clooz -- I have the information at my disposal right now, without ruffling through the files and perhaps thereby being pulled off track), I pull out the document and -- of course <g> -- leave it on my desk for a day or two. After the pile's gotten out of control <g>, I simply have to grab all my family documents, sit in front of the television with the kids and absentmindedly sort by surname into piles, then grab each surname pile and sort by type of document. At a commercial or after the program is over, I can take a group of these treasure clues and quickly put them back where they're needed. (I always found filing so tedious -- and still do -- that this makes it easy, and at the same time I give my kids the example that they can do something worthwhile even when they want to be in front of the boob tube.) Anyway, this is working great for me. I find it better and more sensical than much of what I dealt with for 20 years at work. When and if I can return, I have lots and lots of ideas on my volunteer and worklife filing to implement. :-) Marianne

There's actually a field in the Source template for FHL film number and item number. For any other call numbers, such as films at the National Archives, you'd use the Call # and Roll # fields in the Source template. Does this answer your question? At 06:02 PM 5/3/01 -0700, helen graves wrote: >I am in a quandry and need advice. > >What do you use as a source when you found the record/info on an LDS >film? > >I have seen: > >FHL Film No. >FHC Film No. >LDS Film No. > >I am inclined to use FHL (Family History Library), but what is the >correct one to use? > >OK, now what do you use when it was a census film you read at a Natl >Archives? > >-- Helen > > >============================== >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 >Source for Family History Online. Go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB Liz Kelley Kerstens, CGRS, CGL Ancestor Detective, LLC http://www.ancestordetective.com Creator of Clooz, http://www.clooz.com Editor of Genealogical Computing, http://www.ancestry.com

I am in a quandry and need advice. What do you use as a source when you found the record/info on an LDS film? I have seen: FHL Film No. FHC Film No. LDS Film No. I am inclined to use FHL (Family History Library), but what is the correct one to use? OK, now what do you use when it was a census film you read at a Natl Archives? -- Helen

Vince, you might try uninstalling and reinstalling Clooz. I use Clooz on my laptop with Windows ME and am having no trouble. At 08:53 PM 4/29/01 -0700, Vince Correll wrote: >Hi Liz and list: When I try to start Clooz I get this message: "An >error in MSACCESS has caused an error in msaccess.exe. try starting your >computer again." I have a number of times and no fix. Help! I am >using Microsoft ME [sorry to say] >Vince Correll, Fresno, CA [email protected] > > >============================== >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 >Source for Family History Online. Go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB Liz Kelley Kerstens, CGRS, CGL Ancestor Detective, LLC http://www.ancestordetective.com Creator of Clooz, http://www.clooz.com Editor of Genealogical Computing, http://www.ancestry.com

Hi Liz and list: When I try to start Clooz I get this message: "An error in MSACCESS has caused an error in msaccess.exe. try starting your computer again." I have a number of times and no fix. Help! I am using Microsoft ME [sorry to say] Vince Correll, Fresno, CA [email protected]

Enough, already; okay? Let's return to discussions on CLOOZ. I don't mean to be offensive, but this line of discussion is way off base for this program and I'm sure it's just filling up the archives of messages for other, newer listees to plow through, as well as my mailbox. Marianne in Anchorage

I have been reading the comments regarding Ancestry.com. This problem has not gone away unless it has in the last month. Every month since January, I have had to call them and request they remove the 59.99 unauthorized charge from my credit card. Every month I was told it would be removed, but it did not happen. Luckily, my credit card company put the charge on hold and now has removed it as of April. Unfortunately I may have to go through this again as I foolishly signed up for the census records before I knew how they operated. I will NEVER give them a credit card number again. Their lame excuse for doing this was that they were concerned that their customers would get upset if they were unable to access the information. As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing that they have that can't wait a few days or a week to access. Anyway, enough of that. I enjoy all the information I receive from this group (Clooz). Back to what I was working on before I read the Digest #59. Janice

I signed up for the census, only to be disappointed with what they had to offer. Limited images, and no index. Of course I procrastinated about calling them, and when I did, I was told that it was over 90 days which was their offer at the time I signed up. It was 92 days to be exact. I was very insistent and demanded to speak to a supervisor. After assuring him I was happy with Ancestry (I not, but I wanted my money back) he agreed to a credit, which I received. I'm not going to renew Ancestry because I don't think it's worth $60 a year. If you don't want to renew, I suggest you call your credit card company and get a new card number, and don't give it to Ancestry. Pat [email protected] wrote: > I have been reading the comments regarding Ancestry.com. This problem has > not gone away unless it has in the last month. Every month since January, I > have had to call them and request they remove the 59.99 unauthorized charge > from my credit card. Every month I was told it would be removed, but it did > not happen. Luckily, my credit card company put the charge on hold and now > has removed it as of April. Unfortunately I may have to go through this > again as I foolishly signed up for the census records before I knew how they > operated. I will NEVER give them a credit card number again. > > Their lame excuse for doing this was that they were concerned that their > customers would get upset if they were unable to access the information. As > far as I'm concerned, there is nothing that they have that can't wait a few > days or a week to access. > > Anyway, enough of that. I enjoy all the information I receive from this > group (Clooz). Back to what I was working on before I read the Digest #59. > > Janice > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp

I wan't going to respond because this subject has nothing to do with this list, but... I don't think the problem has been solved. I was called several times about renewing my subscription which was due to expire the end of February. I responded that I wish that I could renew but I didn't think I could afford it and told them not to renew my subscription. I was surprised to accidently find out in March that I still had membership previldges. They had automatically renewed my subscription. I guess I was lucky that they did it when I actually had so money in my account. Karen Tout

Yes, it appears that Ancestry.com have realised that they had a massive problem. It was several months ago that I, and many others, started lodging claims for unauthorised debits. They were so overwhelmed with requests for credits, that they now appear to have done a complete turn-around - not only sending a message but phoning customers about their renewals, as well. Mind you that is just getting back to normal, courteous business practice, something they used to be excellent at in years past (I have dealt with Ancestry as distinct from Ancestry.com for close to twenty years). Amazing what a bunch of consumers can achieve. And good to see Ancestry.com make amends. Lance -----Original Message----- From: Hortense Wilkinson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, 28 April 2001 9:02 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Clooz] Ancestry.com subscription I have had no trouble with Ancestry.com. Several months ago, prior to the expiration of my membership, I received a courteous call from them asking if I wished to renew. Perhaps what was once a problem has been corrected and no longer exists. Hortense Wilkinson --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 18/04/01

I have had no trouble with Ancestry.com. Several months ago, prior to the expiration of my membership, I received a courteous call from them asking if I wished to renew. Perhaps what was once a problem has been corrected and no longer exists. Hortense Wilkinson

Anyone who has subscribed to Ancestry.com search facility needs to be aware that Ancestry will automatically renew your subscription whether you ask for it or not! You may receive no advice from them that they have done so. They will automatically charge it to whatever credit card you originally used. If you do not intend to renew your current subscription, make sure you advise them well in advance - many times! It has taken me over three months to finally have an unauthorised charge to my credit card reversed. And many others have suffered the same fate I have learnt from other postings on the many lists I subscribe to. To ensure cancellation of your Ancestry.com membership, subscription charges, or cancellation of your paid membership, if you live in the U.S. contact Account Services at 1-800-262-3787. They are available Monday - Friday 8am to 5pm MDT. If this fails to bring the required action, mailto:[email protected] (use that if you live overseas). And as a last resort, contact the Better Business Bureau in Utah at: http://ike.hurdmanivr.com/salt/index.html While on this site you can also bring up a not too favourable report about Ancestry.com, by using the business name search on the front page. Due to the huge number of complaints (Ancestry's own words to me) they now appear to be sending out messages to subscribers BEFORE their subscription expires. A normal business practice that you would expect would have been in place long before they got themselves into such a mess with their subscribers. But don't wait for the message - unsubscribe before the due date! Lance --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 18/04/01

Yes, it's http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl. At 04:03 PM 4/18/01 -0400, [email protected] wrote: >Is there an archive address for this list? Thank you. Mary McCanney Finley > > >============================== >Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history >learning and how-to articles on the Internet. >http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library Liz Kelley Kerstens, CGRS, CGL Ancestor Detective, LLC http://www.ancestordetective.com Creator of Clooz, http://www.clooz.com Editor of Genealogical Computing, http://www.ancestry.com

Is there an archive address for this list? Thank you. Mary McCanney Finley

I want to thank everyone who responded to my query about organizing the physical documents. I have read each response and I think I have come up with a way that makes sense to me. Gloria C. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Hey Liz, :) I just received my video and I am enjoying it very much. (You look great by the way, don't look to nervous, a little but not as much as I would have looked...frozen :) ). At the expense of getting emails on how low of an IQ I must have, I do have one critique? (I know, I know, everyone's a critic ) ;-) I remember when I was so green at doing genealogy or having no interest in learning out to do any kind of papers or reports that meant I have to cite sources, therefore, when I got out of school, that all went out of my head. Now I find that I need to do that stuff and I'm at a disadvantage even with your video. The only thing I find that could be better is if, instead of using what you *already* have in your database, if you were to start out as if you were one of us (someone that has nothing in their database). Actually take us through the steps of inputting information. While I have figured out what you meant on the way to enter this information I think there might be some people out there better served if they could actually see a document entered. Now don't get me wrong. I don't mean to have you set there and actually enter all that info at the time of taping. You could have it so that it is edited in...say...open your very first document and show the empty screen...enter the name and then edit in a shot that shows all the rest of the information there. Then go to the next step and do the same thing. I don't mean to be a pain in the *insert bad word here* but I just wanted to let you know there were a couple of spots I had to stop and review a couple of times so that I could figure out what you meant because you would go "....but I'm not going to do this because I already have it there" or "I'm not going to do this because it's already done in my database." and then you back out. Being as stupid as I am it took me a minute to figure out what a "Repository" was. I hope I'm offering constructive criticism here. I just wanted to remind everyone that there are those of us that, while some of this is so simple and basic to some, they are a foreign language to others, and probably to those very people who are buying the video for more visual help. Meekly yours, Rikki Only a genealogist regards a step BACKWARD as PROGRESS! Join the following mailing list to talk about and find your family! [email protected] put subscribe in the subject line that's all that is needed. [email protected] put subscribe in the subject line that's all that is needed. My PROSSER Homepage: http://prosserhome.homestead.com

Ordered the Clooz instructional video and have really enjoyed/learned from it. Have watched it 3 times and learned something different each time. It's worth the money. Vivian in TX

I agree to keep it simple *But* I still sort by family, subsort by type of document and then insert the Clooz sequential numbering. There's several logical reasons (at least to me!) for that, but I'll just list a couple: The family member who wants a document; Or my visit to a research facility where I usually focus on one family and one or a few types of records in particular. Since family research is so paper-intensive, if I were to keep all the census reports in a sequential binder, for instance, I'd still spend increasing (as the collection grows) amounts of time searching for a particular document or, heaven forbid, several documents of several different types for a new-found relative or to verify something. Although, I know, Clooz does a magnificent job of keeping all the information at my fingertips, there's still times you want that darned original or handwritten copy. This style still keeps it simple for me for the *different* reasons I'll want access to something. Even though I have one more level of sub-category (the family divisioning) than is usually suggested for Clooz, the filing is extremely easy. Since I apply the document name to the document (GIRT_Bir_001, for example) it takes any mental exercise demands out of the function of filing. If I find myself with a pile of documents from a lucky find, I simply designate each document by the appropriate label and then enter them in Clooz and then lay them into my "to file" pile. I can then sit down with my husband or the kids while they watch a chosen movie or TV program and effortlessly sort them by, first, the family names; second, the document type; and then into numerical order. At a commercial or at the end of the program, I simply take them and put them into the appropriate folders. Done. Again, the bottom line is to choose what works for you and to keep it simple. Enjoy!