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    1. [CLOOZ] Re: 1939 Register
    2. Jan Murphy
    3. The 1939 Register is not a census, but other programs I use treat it as a census. What about using one of the Census substitutes, such as Directory/Population? Jan Murphy [email protected] Moderator Pro Tempore genealogy.stackexchange.com Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 13:17:32 -0000 > From: <[email protected]> > Subject: [CLOOZ] 1939 Register export > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I am trying to add an entry for the 1939 Register (UK), but the closest > template I can find is the Generic Document. > > This does allow me to enter most data but the problem comes when I try to > export it to Legacy. > > At this point Clooz tells me "No exportable events could be determined". > > > > Has anyone found a solution to this please? > > > > Regards > > > > Mike James >

    03/11/2018 02:19:26
    1. [CLOOZ] Re: Test
    2. Steve Hayes
    3. On 11 Mar 2018 at 12:38, [email protected] wrote: > Is the Clooz list back yet? Looks like it. -- Steve Hayes E-mail: [email protected] Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727 Fax: 086-548-2525

    03/11/2018 11:44:34
    1. [CLOOZ] Re: 1939 Register export
    2.     Mike,   Sorry I can't help you since I've never tried to export to Legacy (although I use it). I do it the long way by double entering it.   Have you tried support? I find he's very responsive.   Marie Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus ______________________________________________________________ CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. In a message dated 3/11/2018 9:35:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes:   I am trying to add an entry for the 1939 Register (UK), but the closest template I can find is the Generic Document. This does allow me to enter most data but the problem comes when I try to export it to Legacy. At this point Clooz tells me "No exportable events could be determined". Has anyone found a solution to this please? Regards Mike James

    03/11/2018 09:12:44
    1. [CLOOZ] Re: Test
    2. Hello Roman, thanks for the reply. I have taken a look at the product you mention, but find it is not a document based program, in the way that Clooz is. Being document based allows Clooz to perform powerful analysis of the data contained in records. Regards Mike James

    03/11/2018 07:24:00
    1. [CLOOZ] 1939 Register export
    2. I am trying to add an entry for the 1939 Register (UK), but the closest template I can find is the Generic Document. This does allow me to enter most data but the problem comes when I try to export it to Legacy. At this point Clooz tells me "No exportable events could be determined". Has anyone found a solution to this please? Regards Mike James

    03/11/2018 07:17:32
    1. [CLOOZ] Re: Test
    2. Roman Shparber
    3. GenBox much better -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 8:38 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [CLOOZ] Test Is the Clooz list back yet? Regards Mike James

    03/11/2018 06:44:21
    1. [CLOOZ] Test
    2. Is the Clooz list back yet? Regards Mike James

    03/11/2018 06:38:13
  1. 08/16/2016 11:31:29
    1. Re: [CLOOZ] Sync'ing Clooz using REFN, AFN, _FSFTID
    2. Brian Smith via
    3. Rich,  Thank you for your detailed reply -- very helpful.    A. "..., Clooz actually syncs with an internal ID value in the external database that the user does not see."  Apparently Clooz uses the _UID tag for syncing rather than what I assumed--based on what is displayed in the Data Transfer Manager--the RIN. If so, I concede that is a much better way to sync.  Nevertheless, some of us would prefer having the option to visually match using another ID type vs. RIN. ("The RIN is shown in Clooz to the user so they can visually match the records in the two databases.")  So, if I were your software designer, I would:   (1) Add a data box just above the 'Alternate ID' box in the Individual 'Vitals' screen, (2) its label and contents being the ID type selected [RIN/REFN/AFN/FSFTID] somewhere in 'Options'. (3) Modify the Data Transfer Manager to display this same option choice in the 'ID' column(s).  These proposed options are similar to those in AQ/RM/LegacyFT for what number to display after names.  B. "In the case of Legacy and RootsMagic, ... " :  Thinking about AQ, does Clooz sync to a GEDCOM file in the same way it does with RM and Legacy files?  C. What needs to happen for Clooz to be able to sync with AQ like it does with RootsMagic?  D. Since AQ is "bilingual", does it make sense to create a file link option for the PAF format, and have AQ users generate a .paf file. (There are still many PAF users; they could also benefit from this.)  Thanks again for your quality responses. I don't want to sidetrack development for Clooz 4, but do wish to put these ideas in your head as you move ahead.  Brian  From: Rich Thomas <[email protected]> To: 'Brian Smith' <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2016 8:32 AM Subject: RE: [CLOOZ] Sync'ing Clooz using REFN, AFN, _FSFTID Brian, Interesting food for thought. Personally, I don't view any id value (RIN, REFN, AFN, FSTID) as being stable when it can be edited by the user.  In the case of Legacy and RootsMagic, Clooz actually syncs with an internal ID value in the external database that the user does not see.  The RIN is shown in Clooz to the user so they can visually match the records in the two databases.  If the RINs are reassigned in the external program, Clooz would recognize the current RINs don't match the internal ID anymore, and would change to the RIN value for that same internal ID.  The only action with these two databases that would break synchronization is if the user deleted the person in the external database.    Thus, I think your desire to avoid RINs is a bit hasty, and ends up making things a lot more complicated (for the user). With Family Historian, they use the RIN as the only internal ID, and assume it to be stable.  In order for a user to change it, they would first have to go through some nasty warning messages stating they are about to destroy their database (perhaps not that strong). Other GEDCOM interfaces are a bit weaker in terms of maintaining synchronization.  No stable ID values for Family Tree Maker are available to Clooz, for instance.  Ancestral Quests id values should be pretty stable. Do keep in mind that if Clooz is synchronized with 2 or more different external databases, it tracks the ID values in each one independently.  Even though the same person might be in all the external databases, the person could have a different RIN and internal ID in each, and Clooz would find them.  Clooz doesn't assume the RIN for one database is the same in another.  The "Primary" designation is what determines which set of synchronization values is active at that moment. Adding the REFN, AFN, FSFTID to the Data Transfer Manager is doable, but that would have to be somewhat hidden.  The columns and screen real estate are not big enough to support what could end up being fairly lengthy ID numbers (for both the External program and Clooz).    These values are displayable on the main screen of people in Clooz, as I'm sure you are aware. Adding the ID fields to the record forms for each person is also doable, but the values shown would be those relating to the "Primary" database (as designated at that moment).  If the primary external file designation is changed, the ID values could change. Thanks for the input.  We certainly want to understand how people would like to use Clooz in conjunction with other programs, and make further improvements. Rich Thomas Ancestral Systems LLC > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:clooz- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Smith via > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2016 1:15 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [CLOOZ] Sync'ing Clooz using REFN, AFN, _FSFTID > > After printing and carefully studying the Clooz 3 UserManual, then > experimenting with the program, I have the followingrecommendations for > future editions: > > > Add cells to the Individual's ‘Vitals’ screen for the RINand these GEDCOM- > tagged numbers:  REFN, AFN,_FSFTID. > > Add the ability/option to display not just RIN, but alsoREFN, AFN, _FSFTID in > the Data Transfer Manager. > > Add the ability/option to sync using REFN, or AFN, or _FSFTID, instead of > RIN. > > Though impressed with Clooz 3, the lack of these features isfor me a serious > hindrance to using it. The reason is that I want to be able towork with > different genealogy programs (namely Ancestral Quest and > RootsMagic)which otherwise contain the same data. Trying to preserve RIN > numbers ingenealogy programs is a bit like playing Russian Roulette. On the > other hand,the other mentioned items are preserved/stable in situations > where the RIN maynot be. > > > > If Clooz had this additional capability, it could betterserve as a document > manager that is external to, but effectively integratedwith, a lineage-linked > genealogy program. (P.S., switching to Legacy FamilyTree exclusively is not an > option.) > > > Brian > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

    05/16/2016 10:35:48
    1. Re: [CLOOZ] Sync'ing Clooz using REFN, AFN, _FSFTID
    2. Rich Thomas via
    3. Brian, Interesting food for thought. Personally, I don't view any id value (RIN, REFN, AFN, FSTID) as being stable when it can be edited by the user. In the case of Legacy and RootsMagic, Clooz actually syncs with an internal ID value in the external database that the user does not see. The RIN is shown in Clooz to the user so they can visually match the records in the two databases. If the RINs are reassigned in the external program, Clooz would recognize the current RINs don't match the internal ID anymore, and would change to the RIN value for that same internal ID. The only action with these two databases that would break synchronization is if the user deleted the person in the external database. Thus, I think your desire to avoid RINs is a bit hasty, and ends up making things a lot more complicated (for the user). With Family Historian, they use the RIN as the only internal ID, and assume it to be stable. In order for a user to change it, they would first have to go through some nasty warning messages stating they are about to destroy their database (perhaps not that strong). Other GEDCOM interfaces are a bit weaker in terms of maintaining synchronization. No stable ID values for Family Tree Maker are available to Clooz, for instance. Ancestral Quests id values should be pretty stable. Do keep in mind that if Clooz is synchronized with 2 or more different external databases, it tracks the ID values in each one independently. Even though the same person might be in all the external databases, the person could have a different RIN and internal ID in each, and Clooz would find them. Clooz doesn't assume the RIN for one database is the same in another. The "Primary" designation is what determines which set of synchronization values is active at that moment. Adding the REFN, AFN, FSFTID to the Data Transfer Manager is doable, but that would have to be somewhat hidden. The columns and screen real estate are not big enough to support what could end up being fairly lengthy ID numbers (for both the External program and Clooz). These values are displayable on the main screen of people in Clooz, as I'm sure you are aware. Adding the ID fields to the record forms for each person is also doable, but the values shown would be those relating to the "Primary" database (as designated at that moment). If the primary external file designation is changed, the ID values could change. Thanks for the input. We certainly want to understand how people would like to use Clooz in conjunction with other programs, and make further improvements. Rich Thomas Ancestral Systems LLC > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:clooz- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Smith via > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2016 1:15 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [CLOOZ] Sync'ing Clooz using REFN, AFN, _FSFTID > > After printing and carefully studying the Clooz 3 UserManual, then > experimenting with the program, I have the followingrecommendations for > future editions: > > > Add cells to the Individual's ‘Vitals’ screen for the RINand these GEDCOM- > tagged numbers: REFN, AFN,_FSFTID. > > Add the ability/option to display not just RIN, but alsoREFN, AFN, _FSFTID in > the Data Transfer Manager. > > Add the ability/option to sync using REFN, or AFN, or _FSFTID, instead of > RIN. > > Though impressed with Clooz 3, the lack of these features isfor me a serious > hindrance to using it. The reason is that I want to be able towork with > different genealogy programs (namely Ancestral Quest and > RootsMagic)which otherwise contain the same data. Trying to preserve RIN > numbers ingenealogy programs is a bit like playing Russian Roulette. On the > other hand,the other mentioned items are preserved/stable in situations > where the RIN maynot be. > > > > If Clooz had this additional capability, it could betterserve as a document > manager that is external to, but effectively integratedwith, a lineage-linked > genealogy program. (P.S., switching to Legacy FamilyTree exclusively is not an > option.) > > > Brian > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

    05/14/2016 05:32:55
    1. [CLOOZ] Sync'ing Clooz using REFN, AFN, _FSFTID
    2. Brian Smith via
    3. After printing and carefully studying the Clooz 3 UserManual, then experimenting with the program, I have the followingrecommendations for future editions:   Add cells to the Individual's ‘Vitals’ screen for the RINand these GEDCOM-tagged numbers:  REFN, AFN,_FSFTID.   Add the ability/option to display not just RIN, but alsoREFN, AFN, _FSFTID in the Data Transfer Manager.   Add the ability/option to sync using REFN, or AFN, or _FSFTID, instead of RIN.    Though impressed with Clooz 3, the lack of these features isfor me a serious hindrance to using it. The reason is that I want to be able towork with different genealogy programs (namely Ancestral Quest and RootsMagic)which otherwise contain the same data. Trying to preserve RIN numbers ingenealogy programs is a bit like playing Russian Roulette. On the other hand,the other mentioned items are preserved/stable in situations where the RIN maynot be.   If Clooz had this additional capability, it could betterserve as a document manager that is external to, but effectively integratedwith, a lineage-linked genealogy program. (P.S., switching to Legacy FamilyTree exclusively is not an option.) Brian 

    05/13/2016 11:15:08
    1. [CLOOZ] Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.?
    2. Jan Murphy via
    3. Ralf -- You say "In essence a marriage record often proves a three generation family tree." I am not familiar with the kind of marriage you are talking about that would list more than two generations (the married couple and their parents). But putting that aside for a moment -- One record is not proof. You have a record that makes a claim about a family tree. Just because it is written in a record, that doesn't make it so. I have a probate record that describes three generations of a family -- a man leaving shares in his estate to his grand-daughters (daughters of his daughter) with two of his sons acting as executors of the estate. This record confirmed a hypothesis I had made, but I had already built up a body of indirect evidence as part of my attempt at a proof. Documents have information in them. Genealogists write proof statements. For another family, I have a newspaper article about a funeral where two of the men who acted as bearers for the deceased are described as his nephews. From other information I have in my file, I know that it is far more likely that they are two of his grandsons. If I put these documents into Clooz first, before sending them over to Family Historian, I need to preserve the information about these claims somewhere. But I don't want Clooz to lock me into the relationships stated in the document, because the documents might not state the real relationship. Proving the real relationship is my job -- not the source's job. Best, Jan Jan Murphy [email protected] On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 12:00 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.? (Ralf M.) > 2. Re: Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.? > (Terri Brown's Genealogy) > 3. Re: Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.? > (Rich Thomas) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 22:22:49 +0100 > From: "Ralf M." <[email protected]> > Subject: [CLOOZ] Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.? > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Hello all, > > Recently I asked on a mailing list how to enter information of different > documents into a genealogy software and then have the software help me > draw conclusions how to put together the pieces to form a family tree > (as opposed to having to draw my conclusions "offline" and enter the > results into the software). I was told to have a look at Clooz (and > Evidentia). > > Watching the introductory videos Evidentia seems to require a lot of > typing, so I rather had a closer look at Clooz. By now I have watched > all the Clooz videos and read nearly the complete manual. At first Clooz > looked very promising, but then doubts started whether the software > really helps with what I would like to achieve. So I decided to ask here > about it rather than try the software not knowing how to use it. > > Among several concerns my main worry is the following: > > Clooz seems to be geared towards documents that contain details about > people (and cover a single event). Census data are like that, and the > examples in the videos use census data. > However, most of my documents are register records and focus on > relationships between people (parents and child, spouses with their > parents and possibly children, ...). There are also population register > records that typically document multiple events. > > Does Clooz handle such documents properly? > > E.g. I enter a birth record into Clooz (newborn and parents) and export > that to GEDCOM. Will the GEDCOM contain the fact that the newborn is the > child of the parents? After all a birth record is the most official > document I will ever get for the fact who the parents of the newborn are. > I am somewhat doubtful due to the explanations in the "Families Tab" > section of the manual. > > Things get even worse for a marriage record, which documents the married > couple and the parents of bride and groom, often supplemented by > information about children of the couple. In essence a marriage record > often proves a three generation family tree. And thus I expect the > GEDCOM which Clooz generates from such a marriage record to contain the > three generation family tree. > > Does Clooz work like that? > > Finally an example of a population register record. These were often > kept on index cards. The front side of such an index card contains > information about the people, like > Husband Adam Schmitt, born 21.3.1895 Berlin > Wife Berta Schmitt nee Meyer born 18.5.1899 Berlin > Child 1 Charlotte born 13.8.1920 Berlin > Child 2 David born 7.7.1922 Berlin > Child ... > (This does not necessarily imply that husband and wife are the parents > of the children, only that the children live in the household.) > The back side of such an index card contains information about their > moves. A card from Hamburg might look like > 15.9.1930 Adam from Berlin to Nordkanalstr. 25 > 1.12.1930 Adam from Nordkanalstr. 25 to Altonaer Str. 77 > 1.1.1931 Berta, Charlotte, David from Berlin to Altonaer Str. 77 > 1.5.1932 Family from Altonaer Str. 77 to Kanalstr. 8 > 27.3.1936 Charlotte from Kanalstr. 8 to Kiel > 9.8.1936 Charlotte from Kiel to Kanalstr. 8 > 1.8.1940 David from Kanalstr. 8 to Wilhelmshafen (military service) > 23.3.1941 Charlotte from Kanalstr. 8 to Billstr. 15 (now own card) > ... > There are occasionally further information on these index cards; I have > seen changes of religion and changes of citizenchip (both with a date). > > Is it possible to enter the content of such an index card (including the > back side) as a document in Clooz? > > > I'd be happy about any answers and how-to-explanations. > > Best regards, > Ralf M. >

    03/23/2016 02:24:50
    1. Re: [CLOOZ] Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.?
    2. Rich Thomas via
    3. Ralf, I'll add a couple of remarks to Terri's accurate response. Clooz doesn't internally maintain relationships between people, only their role in the document. The determination of parent-child relationships (or event parent-parent and child-child [siblings]) is all generated within the Families Tab of the export form. Depending upon the type of document, Clooz may be able to suggest a set of relationships, but essentially it is up to you the researcher to determine what relationships should be made. The tools are there for you to do that. The parent-child relationships you setup would be placed in the GEDCOM file. Terri is correct regarding the challenges of entering multiple event type combinations within the same document. There is nothing to keep you from using multiple document types (all pointing back to the same source), but that would require multiple export operations. You could keep exporting to the same GEDCOM file to accumulate the various events. Different people will use Clooz in different ways, whatever best suits their need. Experimenting with it will give you the clearest answer. (i.e., the free trial) I will say that you will find Evidentia focuses more on the key resulting fact and its justification, where Clooz is more focused on the entire set of details in a document. If your interest is to write proof statements supporting the Genealogical Proof Standard, Evidentia would be the program of choice. If your interest is to organize/analyze details from the various documents you find (not knowing if they contain the right people or not), then Clooz is your tool. Rich Thomas Ancestral Systems LLC > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:clooz- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Terri Brown's Genealogy via > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 9:38 PM > To: 'Ralf M.' <[email protected]>; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.? > > Hi Ralf, > > My best recommendation is for you to try the 14-day free trial. There is a link > on the Clooz home page at the top and bottom of the page. Also check the > mailing list archives. I don't remember any specific issues being raised on the > mailing list in regards to GEDCOM exports. > > Unfortunately I can't answer the questions regarding exporting Clooz data to > GEDCOM as I use Legacy Family Tree. Clooz interfaces nicely with Legacy - no > GEDCOM needed. It also interfaces with Family Historian. Clooz can handle > most anything you can think of. Exports of any type of birth, marriage or > death record works properly whether the data is from a modern certificate > or a register book. All individuals are linked in Legacy as long as the Families > tab is set up correctly, which is easy to do. If the family relationship is already > set up in Legacy there is no need to change the Families tab. You usually only > have to set up the Families tab when adding new individuals. The same with > Census data. A census export will include estimated birth dates when an age > is given. If a death record also includes the decedents birth date, the birth > date will also export. Other information on documents will export depending > on the document type. > > Your marriage record example should work as long as the Families tab is set > up correctly. Keep in mind there will likely be some cleanup work to be done > once you import the GEDCOM produced by Clooz into your family tree file. > > Now, documents containing information on more than one event can be > tricky. > If you did not want to export the data to GEDCOM you could find the > document template that works best and move on. If you DO want to export > the data you may want to split the data into its respective templates. In your > population register example the Birth document template will work > beautifully for the first part of your example. I'm not so sure about the > second part of your population register example. You would definitely need > to experiment with the different templates to see if something would work. > > I just make it work the best I can if existing templates don't suit my needs. > There are times when Clooz simply can't do the exact export I need. > Luckily for me those times are few and far between. I've been using Clooz for > more years than I can count - since version 1. It's come a long way with many > improvements in the last couple of years and many more planned for the > future. Also, Support is awesome! > > Regards, > > Terri Rosnagel Brown > > Researching: Rosnagel, Thompson, Kibbee, Bovee, Slater, Stadler, Fuchs, > Hart, Eckersley Kibbee, Rosnagel, Slater, Thompson and Allied Lines > <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=ridgrnr> > Brown/Braun and Paul/Pawlowski > <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=jeepjim> > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:clooz- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Ralf M. via > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 5:23 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [CLOOZ] Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.? > > Hello all, > > Recently I asked on a mailing list how to enter information of different > documents into a genealogy software and then have the software help me > draw conclusions how to put together the pieces to form a family tree (as > opposed to having to draw my conclusions "offline" and enter the results > into the software). I was told to have a look at Clooz (and Evidentia). > > Watching the introductory videos Evidentia seems to require a lot of typing, > so I rather had a closer look at Clooz. By now I have watched all the Clooz > videos and read nearly the complete manual. At first Clooz looked very > promising, but then doubts started whether the software really helps with > what I would like to achieve. So I decided to ask here about it rather than try > the software not knowing how to use it. > > Among several concerns my main worry is the following: > > Clooz seems to be geared towards documents that contain details about > people (and cover a single event). Census data are like that, and the > examples in the videos use census data. > However, most of my documents are register records and focus on > relationships between people (parents and child, spouses with their parents > and possibly children, ...). There are also population register records that > typically document multiple events. > > Does Clooz handle such documents properly? > > E.g. I enter a birth record into Clooz (newborn and parents) and export that > to GEDCOM. Will the GEDCOM contain the fact that the newborn is the child > of the parents? After all a birth record is the most official document I will ever > get for the fact who the parents of the newborn are. > I am somewhat doubtful due to the explanations in the "Families Tab" > section of the manual. > > Things get even worse for a marriage record, which documents the married > couple and the parents of bride and groom, often supplemented by > information about children of the couple. In essence a marriage record often > proves a three generation family tree. And thus I expect the GEDCOM which > Clooz generates from such a marriage record to contain the three generation > family tree. > > Does Clooz work like that? > > Finally an example of a population register record. These were often kept on > index cards. The front side of such an index card contains information about > the people, like > Husband Adam Schmitt, born 21.3.1895 Berlin > Wife Berta Schmitt nee Meyer born 18.5.1899 Berlin > Child 1 Charlotte born 13.8.1920 Berlin > Child 2 David born 7.7.1922 Berlin > Child ... > (This does not necessarily imply that husband and wife are the parents of the > children, only that the children live in the household.) The back side of such > an index card contains information about their moves. A card from Hamburg > might look like > 15.9.1930 Adam from Berlin to Nordkanalstr. 25 > 1.12.1930 Adam from Nordkanalstr. 25 to Altonaer Str. 77 > 1.1.1931 Berta, Charlotte, David from Berlin to Altonaer Str. 77 > 1.5.1932 Family from Altonaer Str. 77 to Kanalstr. 8 > 27.3.1936 Charlotte from Kanalstr. 8 to Kiel > 9.8.1936 Charlotte from Kiel to Kanalstr. 8 > 1.8.1940 David from Kanalstr. 8 to Wilhelmshafen (military service) > 23.3.1941 Charlotte from Kanalstr. 8 to Billstr. 15 (now own card) > ... > There are occasionally further information on these index cards; I have seen > changes of religion and changes of citizenchip (both with a date). > > Is it possible to enter the content of such an index card (including the back > side) as a document in Clooz? > > > I'd be happy about any answers and how-to-explanations. > > Best regards, > Ralf M. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

    03/22/2016 05:11:27
    1. [CLOOZ] Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.?
    2. Ralf M. via
    3. Hello all, Recently I asked on a mailing list how to enter information of different documents into a genealogy software and then have the software help me draw conclusions how to put together the pieces to form a family tree (as opposed to having to draw my conclusions "offline" and enter the results into the software). I was told to have a look at Clooz (and Evidentia). Watching the introductory videos Evidentia seems to require a lot of typing, so I rather had a closer look at Clooz. By now I have watched all the Clooz videos and read nearly the complete manual. At first Clooz looked very promising, but then doubts started whether the software really helps with what I would like to achieve. So I decided to ask here about it rather than try the software not knowing how to use it. Among several concerns my main worry is the following: Clooz seems to be geared towards documents that contain details about people (and cover a single event). Census data are like that, and the examples in the videos use census data. However, most of my documents are register records and focus on relationships between people (parents and child, spouses with their parents and possibly children, ...). There are also population register records that typically document multiple events. Does Clooz handle such documents properly? E.g. I enter a birth record into Clooz (newborn and parents) and export that to GEDCOM. Will the GEDCOM contain the fact that the newborn is the child of the parents? After all a birth record is the most official document I will ever get for the fact who the parents of the newborn are. I am somewhat doubtful due to the explanations in the "Families Tab" section of the manual. Things get even worse for a marriage record, which documents the married couple and the parents of bride and groom, often supplemented by information about children of the couple. In essence a marriage record often proves a three generation family tree. And thus I expect the GEDCOM which Clooz generates from such a marriage record to contain the three generation family tree. Does Clooz work like that? Finally an example of a population register record. These were often kept on index cards. The front side of such an index card contains information about the people, like Husband Adam Schmitt, born 21.3.1895 Berlin Wife Berta Schmitt nee Meyer born 18.5.1899 Berlin Child 1 Charlotte born 13.8.1920 Berlin Child 2 David born 7.7.1922 Berlin Child ... (This does not necessarily imply that husband and wife are the parents of the children, only that the children live in the household.) The back side of such an index card contains information about their moves. A card from Hamburg might look like 15.9.1930 Adam from Berlin to Nordkanalstr. 25 1.12.1930 Adam from Nordkanalstr. 25 to Altonaer Str. 77 1.1.1931 Berta, Charlotte, David from Berlin to Altonaer Str. 77 1.5.1932 Family from Altonaer Str. 77 to Kanalstr. 8 27.3.1936 Charlotte from Kanalstr. 8 to Kiel 9.8.1936 Charlotte from Kiel to Kanalstr. 8 1.8.1940 David from Kanalstr. 8 to Wilhelmshafen (military service) 23.3.1941 Charlotte from Kanalstr. 8 to Billstr. 15 (now own card) ... There are occasionally further information on these index cards; I have seen changes of religion and changes of citizenchip (both with a date). Is it possible to enter the content of such an index card (including the back side) as a document in Clooz? I'd be happy about any answers and how-to-explanations. Best regards, Ralf M.

    03/22/2016 04:22:49
    1. Re: [CLOOZ] Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.?
    2. Terri Brown's Genealogy via
    3. Hi Ralf, My best recommendation is for you to try the 14-day free trial. There is a link on the Clooz home page at the top and bottom of the page. Also check the mailing list archives. I don't remember any specific issues being raised on the mailing list in regards to GEDCOM exports. Unfortunately I can't answer the questions regarding exporting Clooz data to GEDCOM as I use Legacy Family Tree. Clooz interfaces nicely with Legacy - no GEDCOM needed. It also interfaces with Family Historian. Clooz can handle most anything you can think of. Exports of any type of birth, marriage or death record works properly whether the data is from a modern certificate or a register book. All individuals are linked in Legacy as long as the Families tab is set up correctly, which is easy to do. If the family relationship is already set up in Legacy there is no need to change the Families tab. You usually only have to set up the Families tab when adding new individuals. The same with Census data. A census export will include estimated birth dates when an age is given. If a death record also includes the decedents birth date, the birth date will also export. Other information on documents will export depending on the document type. Your marriage record example should work as long as the Families tab is set up correctly. Keep in mind there will likely be some cleanup work to be done once you import the GEDCOM produced by Clooz into your family tree file. Now, documents containing information on more than one event can be tricky. If you did not want to export the data to GEDCOM you could find the document template that works best and move on. If you DO want to export the data you may want to split the data into its respective templates. In your population register example the Birth document template will work beautifully for the first part of your example. I'm not so sure about the second part of your population register example. You would definitely need to experiment with the different templates to see if something would work. I just make it work the best I can if existing templates don't suit my needs. There are times when Clooz simply can't do the exact export I need. Luckily for me those times are few and far between. I've been using Clooz for more years than I can count - since version 1. It's come a long way with many improvements in the last couple of years and many more planned for the future. Also, Support is awesome! Regards, Terri Rosnagel Brown Researching: Rosnagel, Thompson, Kibbee, Bovee, Slater, Stadler, Fuchs, Hart, Eckersley Kibbee, Rosnagel, Slater, Thompson and Allied Lines <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=ridgrnr> Brown/Braun and Paul/Pawlowski <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=jeepjim> -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ralf M. via Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 5:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [CLOOZ] Can Clooz handle documents about relationships etc.? Hello all, Recently I asked on a mailing list how to enter information of different documents into a genealogy software and then have the software help me draw conclusions how to put together the pieces to form a family tree (as opposed to having to draw my conclusions "offline" and enter the results into the software). I was told to have a look at Clooz (and Evidentia). Watching the introductory videos Evidentia seems to require a lot of typing, so I rather had a closer look at Clooz. By now I have watched all the Clooz videos and read nearly the complete manual. At first Clooz looked very promising, but then doubts started whether the software really helps with what I would like to achieve. So I decided to ask here about it rather than try the software not knowing how to use it. Among several concerns my main worry is the following: Clooz seems to be geared towards documents that contain details about people (and cover a single event). Census data are like that, and the examples in the videos use census data. However, most of my documents are register records and focus on relationships between people (parents and child, spouses with their parents and possibly children, ...). There are also population register records that typically document multiple events. Does Clooz handle such documents properly? E.g. I enter a birth record into Clooz (newborn and parents) and export that to GEDCOM. Will the GEDCOM contain the fact that the newborn is the child of the parents? After all a birth record is the most official document I will ever get for the fact who the parents of the newborn are. I am somewhat doubtful due to the explanations in the "Families Tab" section of the manual. Things get even worse for a marriage record, which documents the married couple and the parents of bride and groom, often supplemented by information about children of the couple. In essence a marriage record often proves a three generation family tree. And thus I expect the GEDCOM which Clooz generates from such a marriage record to contain the three generation family tree. Does Clooz work like that? Finally an example of a population register record. These were often kept on index cards. The front side of such an index card contains information about the people, like Husband Adam Schmitt, born 21.3.1895 Berlin Wife Berta Schmitt nee Meyer born 18.5.1899 Berlin Child 1 Charlotte born 13.8.1920 Berlin Child 2 David born 7.7.1922 Berlin Child ... (This does not necessarily imply that husband and wife are the parents of the children, only that the children live in the household.) The back side of such an index card contains information about their moves. A card from Hamburg might look like 15.9.1930 Adam from Berlin to Nordkanalstr. 25 1.12.1930 Adam from Nordkanalstr. 25 to Altonaer Str. 77 1.1.1931 Berta, Charlotte, David from Berlin to Altonaer Str. 77 1.5.1932 Family from Altonaer Str. 77 to Kanalstr. 8 27.3.1936 Charlotte from Kanalstr. 8 to Kiel 9.8.1936 Charlotte from Kiel to Kanalstr. 8 1.8.1940 David from Kanalstr. 8 to Wilhelmshafen (military service) 23.3.1941 Charlotte from Kanalstr. 8 to Billstr. 15 (now own card) ... There are occasionally further information on these index cards; I have seen changes of religion and changes of citizenchip (both with a date). Is it possible to enter the content of such an index card (including the back side) as a document in Clooz? I'd be happy about any answers and how-to-explanations. Best regards, Ralf M. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    03/22/2016 03:37:49
    1. Re: [CLOOZ] data input migration suggestion
    2. Stephen Rowe via
    3. To add to this - an audit trail of documents entered, changed or deleted should also be very high on the priority list of inclusion for any future version . Stephen Rowe Melbourne, Oz http://ser.id.au -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gene Rice via Sent: Wednesday, 20 January 2016 9:55 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] data input migration suggestion I’d also very much like to see a csv import capability, but I’d like to suggest a different approach from what earlier conversations proposed – and I actually think it would give us a better capability sooner as a result. Clooz 4 is the developers’ priority, as it should be. Simply adding to their “to do” list by providing them our data import desires, and have them work those desires into a compatible form, not only increases their work load more than it needs to be, but it also pretty much guarantees a lot of back and forth as we repeatedly rework our proposed formats to take into account Clooz 4 data types, formats, and structures. I suggest we follow their lead instead. At some point in time, maybe even already, they should have a Clooz 4 data dictionary or some other less formal descriptions of Clooz 4 data that tells us what they plan to include in Clooz 4, the data type (text, number, date, etc.), format (field length, date type, etc.), and structure (data validation tables, key fields, database tables, etc.). Maybe even the Clooz 3 documentation is close enough to Clooz 4 and is available. If we can get this Clooz 4 information, we can then construct our spreadsheet import forms to closely match these data attributes, and structure the data using, for example, a tab for each database table, using the same key fields and data validation planned for Clooz 4. Not only will this save the Clooz 4 developers a lot of effort, but it will also save a lot of rework effort on our part. In addition, we’ll have a great view into what documents/data Clooz 4 is planned to have and, as a separate task, we can provide feedback to the developers on additions/changes they may want, or even need, to consider. I apologize if I'm preaching to the choir on this, but it didn't look like this approach was being considered. Thoughts? Regards, Gene ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    01/20/2016 12:34:11
    1. Re: [CLOOZ] Life after FTM
    2. Sue via
    3. NEHGS has a free webinar on choosing a genealogical software program. New at the Online Learning Center Webinar: Choosing a Genealogical Software Program Presented by: Rhonda R. McClure Tuesday, January 26, 2 p.m. EST Cost: FREE /Sue/ Susan Wallace Masse Stayton, Oregon On 05-Jan-16 4:44 PM, Terri Brown's Genealogy via wrote: > I switched to Legacy from FTM years ago but still use FTM to make big > changes to my Ancestry.com tree. > > > > Most, if not all, programs have a trial version. Try a few out and see which > you like best. > > > > Terri Rosnagel Brown > > > > Researching: Rosnagel, Thompson, Kibbee, Bovee, Slater, Stadler, Fuchs, > Hart, Eckersley > > Kibbee, Rosnagel, Slater, Thompson and Allied Lines > <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=ridgrnr> > > Brown/Braun and Paul/Pawlowski > <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=jeepjim> > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    01/20/2016 06:12:56
    1. Re: [CLOOZ] data input migration suggestion
    2. Rich Thomas via
    3. These are all reasonable proposals, and will try to work them in. Understand that Clooz 4 will be a substantial rework of version 3, setting up a more flexible platform on which to build all sorts of capabilities in the future. One of the reasons for going to the annual update support renewal system (vs charging for upgrades to new major releases) is that once the initial version 4 release is accomplished (of which the primary focus is on providing at least the version 3 level of functionality) we can continue to roll out enhancements monthly. I believe 2016 is going to be an exciting year for Clooz. Rich Thomas Ancestral Systems, LLC > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:clooz- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Stephen Rowe via > Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 3:34 AM > To: 'Gene Rice' <[email protected]>; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] data input migration suggestion > > To add to this - an audit trail of documents entered, changed or deleted > should also be very high on the priority list of inclusion for any future version > . > > Stephen Rowe > Melbourne, Oz > http://ser.id.au > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:clooz- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Gene Rice via > Sent: Wednesday, 20 January 2016 9:55 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CLOOZ] data input migration suggestion > > I’d also very much like to see a csv import capability, but I’d like to suggest a > different approach from what earlier conversations proposed – and I actually > think it would give us a better capability sooner as a result. > > > Clooz 4 is the developers’ priority, as it should be. Simply adding to their “to > do” list by providing them our data import desires, and have them work > those desires into a compatible form, not only increases their work load > more than it needs to be, but it also pretty much guarantees a lot of back and > forth as we repeatedly rework our proposed formats to take into account > Clooz 4 data types, formats, and structures. > > > I suggest we follow their lead instead. At some point in time, maybe even > already, they should have a Clooz 4 data dictionary or some other less formal > descriptions of Clooz 4 data that tells us what they plan to include in Clooz 4, > the data type (text, number, date, etc.), format (field length, date type, > etc.), and structure (data validation tables, key fields, database tables, etc.). > Maybe even the Clooz 3 documentation is close enough to Clooz 4 and is > available. > > > If we can get this Clooz 4 information, we can then construct our spreadsheet > import forms to closely match these data attributes, and structure the data > using, for example, a tab for each database table, using the same key fields > and data validation planned for Clooz 4. Not only will this save the Clooz 4 > developers a lot of effort, but it will also save a lot of rework effort on our > part. In addition, we’ll have a great view into what documents/data Clooz 4 is > planned to have and, as a separate task, we can provide feedback to the > developers on additions/changes they may want, or even need, to consider. > > > I apologize if I'm preaching to the choir on this, but it didn't look like this > approach was being considered. Thoughts? > > > Regards, > > > Gene > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOOZ- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

    01/20/2016 01:31:49
    1. Re: [CLOOZ] data input migration suggestion
    2. Gene Rice via
    3. I’d also very much like to see a csv import capability, but I’d like to suggest a different approach from what earlier conversations proposed – and I actually think it would give us a better capability sooner as a result. Clooz 4 is the developers’ priority, as it should be. Simply adding to their “to do” list by providing them our data import desires, and have them work those desires into a compatible form, not only increases their work load more than it needs to be, but it also pretty much guarantees a lot of back and forth as we repeatedly rework our proposed formats to take into account Clooz 4 data types, formats, and structures. I suggest we follow their lead instead.  At some point in time, maybe even already, they should have a Clooz 4 data dictionary or some other less formal descriptions of Clooz 4 data that tells us what they plan to include in Clooz 4, the data type (text, number, date, etc.), format (field length, date type, etc.), and structure (data validation tables, key fields, database tables, etc.).  Maybe even the Clooz 3 documentation is close enough to Clooz 4 and is available. If we can get this Clooz 4 information, we can then construct our spreadsheet import forms to closely match these data attributes, and structure the data using, for example, a tab for each database table, using the same key fields and data validation planned for Clooz 4.  Not only will this save the Clooz 4 developers a lot of effort, but it will also save a lot of rework effort on our part. In addition, we’ll have a great view into what documents/data Clooz 4 is planned to have and, as a separate task, we can provide feedback to the developers on additions/changes they may want, or even need, to consider. I apologize if I'm preaching to the choir on this, but it didn't look like this approach was being considered.  Thoughts? Regards, Gene

    01/19/2016 10:55:27
    1. [CLOOZ] Life after FTM
    2. Terri Brown's Genealogy via
    3. I switched to Legacy from FTM years ago but still use FTM to make big changes to my Ancestry.com tree. Most, if not all, programs have a trial version. Try a few out and see which you like best. Terri Rosnagel Brown Researching: Rosnagel, Thompson, Kibbee, Bovee, Slater, Stadler, Fuchs, Hart, Eckersley Kibbee, Rosnagel, Slater, Thompson and Allied Lines <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=ridgrnr> Brown/Braun and Paul/Pawlowski <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=jeepjim>

    01/05/2016 12:44:45