Patti - thanks for the note - the salmon was well received -- yuo asked about cousin relationships: ths is the key - first cousins have grandparents in common (you know that) second cousins have great-grandparents in common third cousins have great-great-grandparents in common now note the pattern. Add one to the number of greats and presto you have it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ once removed if Pat and Sam, jr have Pete for a great-great-great-great-grandparent in common what is their relationship? Fifth cousins. But Sam, jr says no. He says, "Pete is my great-great-great-great-great-grandparent." Now what? Well Sam's father, Sam Sr, must have had Pete as a great-great-great-great-grandparent. That is Sam Sr is Pat's fifth cousin. So Sam jr is Pat's fifthcousin-once removed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It is a lot like other of life's problems - you must manipulate what facts you have into a form that will help you see the answer. When it gets more complicated than that - I call then distant cousins and forget it. regards Hal