CLANS-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Subject: > > CLANS-D Digest Volume 99 : Issue 12 > > Today's Topics: > #1 [CLANS-L] CAN ANYONE HELP WITH MY [Betty Stewart <bstewart@qcislands.] > #2 [CLANS-L] Mcqueen, Nova Scotia [Eleanor Marshall <marmac@hurontel.] > #3 [CLANS-L] Surname Catt ["Dana Kos" <danacatt@hotmail.com>] > #4 [CLANS-L] STUART FRASER. ["viola seward" <olla@eot.com>] > #5 [CLANS-L] McKinster--does anyone k ["Patricia J. Popple" <ppopple@cent] > #6 [CLANS-L] Clan query ["maybelle" <maybelle@dataline.net.] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from CLANS-D, send a message to > > CLANS-D-request@rootsweb.com > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: [CLANS-L] CAN ANYONE HELP WITH MY MACDONALD BUNCH? > Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 09:02:09 -0800 > From: Betty Stewart <bstewart@qcislands.net> > To: CLANS-L@rootsweb.com > > Greetings from British Columbia: > > I believe this is my first posting here (don't always keep track), and I > wondered if SKS could help me with my Mac/McDonald dilemma. The > information I have is as follows: > > I have been researching my husband's (Greg) Mac/McDonald family for over > 10 years. We finally found the first sign of our MacDonald family in > Fox Harbour, Nova Scotia. The entry is in the 1841 Scottish Christening > Records for Tarbat, Ross & Cromarty, Scotland. Alexander McDonald & > Isabella McMichael of Fox Harbour, Scotia, had a child, Archibald, born > 25 Sept 1840. The bottom of this page is signed by an H. MacKenzie > (there are initials behind his name but they are too difficult to read) > and we have been told that he was a Minister from Tarbat who came to > Canada and made a note of Canadian-born children who were born to people > who originally came from his parish). We have been able to reconstruct > most of the family tree from Archibald down, but nothing is known about > Alexander or Isabella. Apparently, the McMichael's were not from Ross & > Cromarty. The first names of Alexander, Archibald, Angus & Charles > appear in most, if not all generations from our first Alexander > onwards. Alexander & Isabella also lived in Westchester & River Philip, > Nova Scotia, with some of the family finally settling in Springhill, > Nova Scotia. The last name ORMOND was given as a second name to one of > Alexander's descendants. Is this a surname common to Ross & Cromarty? > > Any help or guidance would be most welcomed. > > By the way, the page from the Christening Records mentioned above also > contains these entries: > > 1. Alexander MATHESON & Ann MCIVER of Gulf had a child born 8 July 1841 > named _________ Christian > > 2. Norman MCLEOD & Eunice (last name illeg.) of Gulf had a child born > 14 Apr 1840 named _________ Donald > > 3. John McLEAN & Janet MCLEOD of Gulf had a child born 16 Jan(?) 1841 > named Margaret > > 4. John MCLEOD & Isabella NICHOLSON of Gulf had a child born 6 Feb(?) > 1841 named Roderick > > 5. Norman MCLEOD & May REID of Gulf had a child born 12 Mar 1841 named > John > > 6. John MCAULAY & Ann NICHOLSON of Fox Harbour had a child born 19 Jan > (?) 1841 named (illeg) Nicholson > > 7. George MOODY & Janet ROBERTSON of Fox Harbour had a child born 15 > Jan (?) 1841 named William > > 8. James SCOTT & Margaret NICHOLSON of Fox Harbour had a child born 7 > Oct 1840 named Anabella > > 9. Alexander MCDONALD & Nancy MCDONALD of Big Cove had a child born 1 > Jan (?) 1841 named Duncan > > 10. David R_____(illeg) & Margaret (no last name) of McLennan Cove had > a child born 14 Oct 1840 named Roderick > > 11. Welwood MCNAB & Sarah WAUGH had a child born 14 Aug (?) 1840 named > Welwood. > > Where I have put question marks in the dates means that the writing > appears to be the month I have written. The writing is very difficult > to make out for a lot of it. > > Our Mac/McDonald information has been put onto our webpage at: > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Village/8316 > > Betty Stewart > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: [CLANS-L] Mcqueen, Nova Scotia > Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:14:37 -0500 (EST) > From: Eleanor Marshall <marmac@hurontel.on.ca> > To: CLANS-L@rootsweb.com > > Hello List, > > I am looking for ? Mcqueen. Unfortunately do not know his first name - > possibly Barnabas. He was married to Mary Ann Marshall, b abt 1823, > d 29 Oct 1875. They lived at Acadia Mines, Colchester County, NS. Could > possibly have been in Pictou County before moving to Colchester. > > Can anyone help? > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: [CLANS-L] Surname Catt > Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 16:46:01 PST > From: "Dana Kos" <danacatt@hotmail.com> > To: CLANS-L@rootsweb.com > > Does anyone have any information abou the surname Catt. I have found > lots of Catts in England and just a few in Scotland. I located some > information that the name originated with the Norman "LeChat" and came > to Scotland with William the Conqueror. I also read that the Catts came > from Scotland down to England. I would really like to know if this > information is correct. Oral family history is very definite in that > the name is Scottish and there is a detailed story about an ancestor > whose family came to America from Scotland and the adventures that > followed. I realize oral history can't be relied on completely but I > don't think it is wise to disregard it either. Any info would be > appreciated. Thanks. Dana. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: [CLANS-L] STUART FRASER. > Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:25:29 -0600 > From: "viola seward" <olla@eot.com> > To: CLANS-L@rootsweb.com > > My great aunt Annie Mcleod married Stuart Fraser. Had a son Ted. My > grandmother Chrissie Mcleod had a son by a Fraser. They lived at Colleston, > now Cecil, Sask. Any one know this Fraser family? > Viola. > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: [CLANS-L] McKinster--does anyone know if there is CLAN? > Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 22:29:13 -0800 > From: "Patricia J. Popple" <ppopple@central.ecasd.k12.wi.us> > To: CLANS-L@rootsweb.com > > I am new at this so please bear with me... > > I have joined several Rootsweb groups and have been able to find out > very little about the McKinster family. My mother's father was > Alexander McKinster. He eventually settled in Eau Claire/Chippewa > Falls, WI area and he and his wife raised a large family. I understand > that he moved to Hamilton, Missouri from Potter Co. Pennsylvania and > that he may have been born somewhere in New York. (?) His father > according to my best information was Joseph McKinster and Samantha Belle > Jones McKinster.His Grandfather, Titus McKinster, and his grandmother > was either Hannah or Anna Peters or Peterson(Dutch-Holland)McKinster. > One of the Census documents from Potter Co. lists Titus as having come > from New Jersey...another lists Rhode Island. In a another handwritten > note, Icke McKinster is noted as Titus' father with his mother being > Hannah Peterson(or who knows? Anna Peters???) I have not been able to > find any of these names on shiplists, census reports--------but it is > said that they emigrated to America very early. I have searched the Clan > lists and do not find McKinster. Every list I see I look for the > McKinster name---------Does anyone know any connection with Scotland. It > has to be a very rare name---or perhaps it may be a variation of another > name(McAllister?????) > In some of the handwritten pieces, the name is written Mac Kinster as > well as Mckinster...my mother says it could have been McKinstry. Does > anyone have any insight into the origin? Has anyone seen this name in > any of the genealogical documents. I know the names of his Alex's > brother and sisters...but am just unable at this point to go back any > further than his siblings and parents. I do not know where Titus and > Hannah or Anna or Icke and Hannah or Anna are buried. I do know that > Titus and "Hannah" lived for awhile in Sharon Center in Pennsylvania > with their son Joseph and daughter in law Samantha---and their > children. Any assistance you can give me would be appreciated. Pat > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: [CLANS-L] Clan query > Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:28:18 +1000 > From: "maybelle" <maybelle@dataline.net.au> > To: CLANS-L@rootsweb.com > > Afternoon all, > Is there anyone out there in "bagpipes and haggis land" who can tell me > what clan the DHU name belongs to.Cheers May Dhu > maybelle@dataline.net.au -- Cris Stimson Unanderra, NSW AUSTRALIA ________________________________________________________ Searching Family Names (1): Bailey, Barrett, Batten, Conner, Dixon, Jeffrey, Liggins, Mathews, Monks, Nicholls, O'Hara, Pittaway, Richards, Scott, Smith, Todkill - NSW, Australia Dixon, Monks - New Zealand Batten, Todkill - England Searching Family Names (2): Armstrong, Barrett, Breen, Davies, Denwood, Hughes, Marceau, Morgan, Simpson, Waples, Waugh - NSW, Australia

I am researching the names McClay and Walter. If anyone is researching the either name,would you share information with me? Thank you Rod

I am new at this so please bear with me... I have joined several Rootsweb groups and have been able to find out very little about the McKinster family. My mother's father was Alexander McKinster. He eventually settled in Eau Claire/Chippewa Falls, WI area and he and his wife raised a large family. I understand that he moved to Hamilton, Missouri from Potter Co. Pennsylvania and that he may have been born somewhere in New York. (?) His father according to my best information was Joseph McKinster and Samantha Belle Jones McKinster.His Grandfather, Titus McKinster, and his grandmother was either Hannah or Anna Peters or Peterson(Dutch-Holland)McKinster. One of the Census documents from Potter Co. lists Titus as having come from New Jersey...another lists Rhode Island. In a another handwritten note, Icke McKinster is noted as Titus' father with his mother being Hannah Peterson(or who knows? Anna Peters???) I have not been able to find any of these names on shiplists, census reports--------but it is said that they emigrated to America very early. I have searched the Clan lists and do not find McKinster. Every list I see I look for the McKinster name---------Does anyone know any connection with Scotland. It has to be a very rare name---or perhaps it may be a variation of another name(McAllister?????) In some of the handwritten pieces, the name is written Mac Kinster as well as Mckinster...my mother says it could have been McKinstry. Does anyone have any insight into the origin? Has anyone seen this name in any of the genealogical documents. I know the names of his Alex's brother and sisters...but am just unable at this point to go back any further than his siblings and parents. I do not know where Titus and Hannah or Anna or Icke and Hannah or Anna are buried. I do know that Titus and "Hannah" lived for awhile in Sharon Center in Pennsylvania with their son Joseph and daughter in law Samantha---and their children. Any assistance you can give me would be appreciated. Pat

Afternoon all, Is there anyone out there in "bagpipes and haggis land" who can tell me what clan the DHU name belongs to.Cheers May Dhu maybelle@dataline.net.au

My great aunt Annie Mcleod married Stuart Fraser. Had a son Ted. My grandmother Chrissie Mcleod had a son by a Fraser. They lived at Colleston, now Cecil, Sask. Any one know this Fraser family? Viola.

In a message dated 2/4/99 9:30:32 PM Pacific Standard Time, maybelle@dataline.net.au writes: << Is there anyone out there in "bagpipes and haggis land" who can tell me what clan the DHU name belongs to.Cheers May Dhu >> DHU or Dubh means BLACK in Gaelic. The name Black is related to Lamont, MacGregor, MacLean. depending on the line and the region of where your ancestors originate. If the name is a shortened version of dubhshuileach and are descended from the Stewarts of Garth it would be the Clan Duilach which takes the name from their founding ancestor of the Dark Eyes. It could also mean that you had a dark haired or dark eyed ancestor when surnames became necessary (which really was not that long ago) and the name stuck. I cannot give you a completly accurate answer without your Genealogical information. If you have some of this available maybe we can narrow it down. I hope this helps. Michael MacFarlane

Ardis wrote here...... > A researcher found that one of our ancestor families changed their name--from > MCHARDY to MCLEOD. Has anyone had this experience? We didn't know this until > a few years ago, and have always wondered why??? Originally, the strongest Clans [McKenzie, McLeod, McDonald, Cameron, Campbell, Mackintosh etc] had military "muscle" and political push, and this aroused strong passion for loyalty. The Chief was supported by his Clan, and the Clan would be sustained by the power and wealth of the Chief in various ways. These were the days before income tax and social security! There was advantage in switching your own surname, to that of the Chief. Some Chiefs would reward a name changer, with a major gift e.g. a BOLL OF MEAL. That's quite a sack of food, sometimes enough to make a Murphy become a Mackenzie!! We should therefore take care when researching our own ancestry, to avoid assuming that the surname of our male ancestors was uniform in spelling or sound. Cheers........ -- ALISTAIR M. CAMERON, Assistant at Mittagong N.S.W. F.H. Centre CAMERON RESEARCH, Registered with N.S.W. Dept of Fair Trading. P.O. Box 215 BUNDANOON N.S.W. 2578 AUSTRALIA

Hello List, I am looking for ? Mcqueen. Unfortunately do not know his first name - possibly Barnabas. He was married to Mary Ann Marshall, b abt 1823, d 29 Oct 1875. They lived at Acadia Mines, Colchester County, NS. Could possibly have been in Pictou County before moving to Colchester. Can anyone help?

Greetings from British Columbia: I believe this is my first posting here (don't always keep track), and I wondered if SKS could help me with my Mac/McDonald dilemma. The information I have is as follows: I have been researching my husband's (Greg) Mac/McDonald family for over 10 years. We finally found the first sign of our MacDonald family in Fox Harbour, Nova Scotia. The entry is in the 1841 Scottish Christening Records for Tarbat, Ross & Cromarty, Scotland. Alexander McDonald & Isabella McMichael of Fox Harbour, Scotia, had a child, Archibald, born 25 Sept 1840. The bottom of this page is signed by an H. MacKenzie (there are initials behind his name but they are too difficult to read) and we have been told that he was a Minister from Tarbat who came to Canada and made a note of Canadian-born children who were born to people who originally came from his parish). We have been able to reconstruct most of the family tree from Archibald down, but nothing is known about Alexander or Isabella. Apparently, the McMichael's were not from Ross & Cromarty. The first names of Alexander, Archibald, Angus & Charles appear in most, if not all generations from our first Alexander onwards. Alexander & Isabella also lived in Westchester & River Philip, Nova Scotia, with some of the family finally settling in Springhill, Nova Scotia. The last name ORMOND was given as a second name to one of Alexander's descendants. Is this a surname common to Ross & Cromarty? Any help or guidance would be most welcomed. By the way, the page from the Christening Records mentioned above also contains these entries: 1. Alexander MATHESON & Ann MCIVER of Gulf had a child born 8 July 1841 named _________ Christian 2. Norman MCLEOD & Eunice (last name illeg.) of Gulf had a child born 14 Apr 1840 named _________ Donald 3. John McLEAN & Janet MCLEOD of Gulf had a child born 16 Jan(?) 1841 named Margaret 4. John MCLEOD & Isabella NICHOLSON of Gulf had a child born 6 Feb(?) 1841 named Roderick 5. Norman MCLEOD & May REID of Gulf had a child born 12 Mar 1841 named John 6. John MCAULAY & Ann NICHOLSON of Fox Harbour had a child born 19 Jan (?) 1841 named (illeg) Nicholson 7. George MOODY & Janet ROBERTSON of Fox Harbour had a child born 15 Jan (?) 1841 named William 8. James SCOTT & Margaret NICHOLSON of Fox Harbour had a child born 7 Oct 1840 named Anabella 9. Alexander MCDONALD & Nancy MCDONALD of Big Cove had a child born 1 Jan (?) 1841 named Duncan 10. David R_____(illeg) & Margaret (no last name) of McLennan Cove had a child born 14 Oct 1840 named Roderick 11. Welwood MCNAB & Sarah WAUGH had a child born 14 Aug (?) 1840 named Welwood. Where I have put question marks in the dates means that the writing appears to be the month I have written. The writing is very difficult to make out for a lot of it. Our Mac/McDonald information has been put onto our webpage at: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Village/8316 Betty Stewart

Does anyone have any information abou the surname Catt. I have found lots of Catts in England and just a few in Scotland. I located some information that the name originated with the Norman "LeChat" and came to Scotland with William the Conqueror. I also read that the Catts came from Scotland down to England. I would really like to know if this information is correct. Oral family history is very definite in that the name is Scottish and there is a detailed story about an ancestor whose family came to America from Scotland and the adventures that followed. I realize oral history can't be relied on completely but I don't think it is wise to disregard it either. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks. Dana. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Debbie, don't forget the possibility of a connection for your McCurry to the McMurray family. I have records proving that two McMurrays, John & William, left the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia in 1758 for the Carolinas. When they got there, they stated using strange spellings of the name McMurray, almost like a game. In the process, at times they used McCurry and, in using this name, they sold their land in Virginia that was originally acquired by their father, John McMurray. Good hunting, Don McMurray -----Original Message----- From: Debbie Fowler <micajah@mindspring.com> To: CLANS-L@rootsweb.com <CLANS-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 1:10 PM Subject: [CLANS-L] McCurry/MacCurry >Hi, >I am searching for any McCurry/McCurrie/MacCurry/McCurry..the name is >spelled in many other ways too. I have ancestors in NC, these I know about, >but would like to find those that migrated to Mo. and points westward or >elsewhere! (I think a few went to Brazil after the Civil War) The oldest >well documented ancestor is Micajah McCurry b. 1773 died in 1865, from >Golden Valley, Rutherford Co. NC. We know of his grandfather and father, who >came from Va. but nothing about the Scottish origins of the family. > >Micajah was known as Cagey, KJ, Cazor, and a few others I can't recall right >now. >So, I guess my questions are >1. Does anyone have any McCurry ancestors, and where are they found?" >2. Is there a history of the McCurry CLan? [ I think it might simply have >been the Currie/Curie Clan ] >Thanks for any help >Debbie Fowler >micajah@mindspring.com > >______________________________

Hi... my Scots Kith & Kin bbok advises that Thompson is the same as Thomson and originates from Ayrshire 14th Century of the Clan MacThomas. This clan was founded by Thomas, a natural son of Angus, sixth chief of Clan MacIntosh in the 14th century. A Clan MacThomas appears in the list of Clans belonging to the Ancient Federation of Clan Chattan. In a later role (1587) there occurs Clan MacThomas in Glenshee: Hope this is of assistance to you. Best Wishes Jill Van Der Reyden

Cate Daniell said here, > I posted this before, but received no response. We all thought you'd be overwhelmed with replies! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In different books on clans McCORMICK is variously listed as part of the BUCHANAN Clan or the MacLEAN of LOCH BUIE > Clan. > 1. How does she find out which of these clans her particular McCORMICK family is part of? The only way, is for her to pursue her own ancestral relationships. It is risky to assume that a McCORMICK clan history, or a Buchanan etc would help her find the true Clan affiliation of her family line. If she can prove her McCormick line back a long way then she will be "in" Kirkcudbright, Wigtown, or in the Highlands. KKD and WIG are in the south of Scotland, where Clan life was almost zero. If her roots are there then probably she has no clan affiliation. If her ancestors lived in the Highlands, then MACLEAN or BUCHANAN would be the likely affiliation. If they lived in Argyllshire just north of Loch Lomond, then BUCHANAN would be probable. If they were on the west coast, Mull or Ardgour or Lochbuie then MACLEAN would seem likely. For most of us there is no precision in finding Clan connection. You do your best! You need to determine your own pedigree and study the geographical distribution of the name and its septs. Cheers....... -- ALISTAIR M. CAMERON, Assistant at Mittagong N.S.W. F.H. Centre

Hi my book Scots Kith & Kin.... list the Grubb family as originating from Brechin, Angus in the 17th Century..... there is no clan listed for them... Hope this is of assistance Jill Van Der Reyden

Cris Stimson Unanderra, NSW AUSTRALIA ________________________________________________________ Searching Family Names (1): Bailey, Barrett, Batten, Conner, Dixon, Jeffrey, Liggins, Mathews, Monks, Nicholls, O'Hara, Pittaway, Richards, Scott, Smith, Todkill - NSW, Australia Dixon, Monks - New Zealand Batten, Todkill - England Searching Family Names (2): Armstrong, Barrett, Breen, Davies, Denwood, Hughes, Marceau, Morgan, Simpson, Waples, Waugh - NSW, Australia

Hi....Researching the Keddie/Kiddie family. Looking for other researchers to exchange information and start a database. Also would anyone know where I would go for a passenger list for Allen Lines, "H. H. Esperan" leaving Glasgow April 25, 1908 and arriving in Quebec City in early June. Would the National Archives or ? have this inf. Thanks Diane keddie@perf.bc.ca

Hi I don't really know much about Clans, and was wondering if the THOMPSON family belonged to a Clan. Appreciate any information. Tracy Thompson Tomaselli

Generation No. 1 1. LATCHLAND1 DUFF was born Bef. 1776 in a village near Glasgow, Scotland, and died Unknown in a village near Glasgow, Scotland. He married UNKNOWN. Notes for LATCHLAND DUFF: >From Will Abstracts of Madison County VA 1793-1813 (also from Marriage Bonds 1793-1800 by Sparacio 1986) Joshua Duff m Usley Harrison 10 Mar 1798: Wm Eve certifies Geo Harrison made oath "Usley Harrison is of lawful age." Child of LATCHLAND DUFF and UNKNOWN is: 2. i. JOSHUA2 DUFF, b. Abt. 1750, a village near Glasgow, Scotland; d. Unknown, Amherst County, VA. Please help me find out who his parents were. Nancy in TN> nlewisjm@bellsouth.net

This is something that I found in the Peel County Archives, Brampton in the Perkins Bull Collection, also relating to a McDonald family. It is an excerpt from an article which appeared in the West Toronto Weekly, May 2, 1945. "On July 12th, 1855, after a tedious journey via Fort William and Caledonian Canal to Glasgow and thence to Liverpool [from Invernesshire], the McDonalds, with some hundred other adventurous pioneers, set out for Canada in a sailing ship which was nothing more than a lumber vessel fitted out with temporary cabins. In the party of McDonalds were the elder McDonald, his wife, Margaret, and their family, seven boys and one girl, also his brother, Malcolm, and wife, Janet, with their family. The tale of the passage to Quebec in this old sailing ship from July 12th to September 1st is one of hardship and suffering. A cruel Captain, overcrowding, poor accommodation, lack of suitable and sufficient food and water. Storms and sickness and death enter into the stories told by the courageous pioneers. The captain was placed in irons when he reached Quebec, and was brought to trial for cruelty to the passengers and indifference to their suffering." These McDonalds settled in Erin Twp., lot 6, con. 5. If anyone is interested I can provide a little more information.

I have a couple of emigration accounts -- one very pleasant and one very, very unpleasant. First the good one: My ancestor, John McDonald, his wife, their children, grandchildren, in-laws, other residents of Lochwinnoch set sail from Greenock in April 1820. They sailed aboard the Young Norval, a fairly small ship. As far as I can determine, the ship carried no more than 100 people, including the sailors. Everything went smoothly until they were becalmed off the banks of Newfoundland. There were several young men aboard who, becoming quite bored, decided that they would like a boat with which to venture on the water. Having befriended the sailors by helping them on the voyage, they now bribed them with a bottle of rum, and a boat was lowered for them. Three of the young men got into the boat and pulled out. One of the men, spotting a sea-fowl, tried to shoot it. However, the iron ram-rod rebounded and the musket fell out of his hands and into the water. They turned the boat in an attempt to retrieve the musket...well, while searching for the musket, they were enveloped by a fog so thick they could no longer see their ship. In the meantime, they had been missed aboard the ship and the captain, after ensuring that as much clamor as possible was made between the ship's gong and their guns, the young men were able to return to the ship. Needless to say, the captain was in a towering rage by the time the reckless wanderers were back aboard. I have not found anything to indicate that there was punishment of any kind. When the winds arose, they set sail again, arriving at the Port of Quebec 43 days after having left Greenock. I have seen nothing to indicate that they were badly treated or that their accommodations were substandard in any respect. Read on to Account No. 2 which is quite the opposite...