One of the most interesting accounts i have seen on this site. JK

Dennis, I enjoyed the story on the Confederate Chaplin. It is nice to hear about Irish Confederates. ---Soldier in Cleburne's Division

"Confederate Chaplain: A War Journal of Rev. James B. Sheeran, C.SS.R, 14th Louisiana, CSA", edited by Rev. Joseph T. Durkin, S.J., preface by Bruce Catton, Bruce Publishing Co., Minneapolis, 1960. James Sheeran was born at Temple Mehill, Co Longford, in 1819. When he was 12, he emigrated to Canada. Moving on to New York and later Pennsylvania, by 1845 he was a tailor in Monroe, MI. He also taught in the boys' Catholic school there run by the Redemptorists. He married about 1842; the marriage produced a son and daughter. Sadly, very little is known about the family. When his wife died in 1849, he sent his daughter to board at an Immaculate Heart convent; she later joined the order but died in 1861, a few months short of her 18th birthday. Meanwhile, in 1855 Sheeran joined the Redemptorists, was ordained in 1858 and assigned to a parish in New Orleans. In September 1861, he was appointed Chaplain to the 14th LA Inf. In August 1862, Fr. Sheeran began keeping his journal of his experiences during the War. And quite a number of experiences he did have: serving with the 14th for most of the war, going on furlough and touring the South in late 1863, being arrested (unjustly, BTW) and jailed at Ft McHenry in late 1864. It sounds like he was very popular through the Army of Northern Virginia, even among Protestants, who oft times invited him to come preach. Fr. Sheeran was an ardent Confederate who, although he really probably shouldn't have, at times stepped into a company officer's role. Very sure of himself, he didn't take nonsense from anyone, even managing to get the last word in on both Stonewall Jackson and Phil Sheridan. He became very good friends with General Richard Ewell and his wife. While visting with them on one occassion he stumbled into the middle of what must have been a couple's squabble: "One of her questions was, 'Father, do you think a general is justified in carelessly exposing himself on the battlefield?' "No, mam! I think he is not. A general is the soul of the army, and his fall always causes despondency and sometimes great disaster to his command. A general in my opinion should keep himself as far as possible out of danger, but in such a position as to see or hear of the movements in battle; but there may arise circumstances which would require even a general to expose himself to every danger.' 'There now, General,' said she, looking at her husband, 'you see that the Father is just of my opinion.' From this remark I concluded that she and the General had been discussing the subject. "At this stage of the conversation our brigade was just passing, so after refusing a pressing invitation to stay for dinner I mounted my horse and started with our boys for camp." Unfortunately, the book is long out of print, but I found it well worth my while chasing it down. Sheeran was a very observant man with a talent for expressing himself in a lively manner - I read the entire book in one evening, it's that good. As a postscript, after the war and back in New Orleans, Fr. Sheeran aided victims of a yellow fever outbreak in 1867. He was released from the Redemptorist order and became a diocesan priest in Morristown NJ in 1871, putting the same energy and zeal he had shown as a chaplain into building up his new parish. As the editor put it: "He was doing what Robert E. Lee, at about the same time, was doing: healing the sectional wounds by placing the nation above section. He had served the people of the South in peace and in war; he would now serve the people above the Mason-Dixon line. He had been a Southern partisan, but he knew that partisanship stops at the boundary of souls." He died on 3 April 1881. Slainte, Dennis

Subject: Irish in Jasper County, Mississippi Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:05:52 -0600 From: "Ronnie Ranew" <celt@sowega.net> To: <ciVIL-WAR-IRISH-D-request@rootsweb.com> Hello, Does anyone else have ancestors from the Irish community around Paudling, Mississippi who fought in the Confederate army? Ronnie

The 8th Missouri Infantry http://www.cillnet.com/eightmo1862/ Desoto Joe/The Record Man

Brig.Gen.Daniel C. Govan remarks to Gen. Cleburne - " Well, general, there will not be many of us that will get back to Arkansas." Cleburne's reply-" Well, Govan, if we are to die, let us die like men." Soldier, 19th Arkansas, Govan's Brigade, Cleburne's Division

Dennis: I know, this is getting old, but please pronounce in States terms. J

Philip Lindsey wrote: > > Hello List, > Well, it's sure that there could be more Gaelic banter if there were > Globalized fadas. ------------------- Yeah. I noticed that my web-based mail service (which I use for the digest) messed up the fada and sent back gobbledygook. For anyone who got the same, it should read "Fag an Bealach", with an accent mark above the "a" in "Fag". Think I'll use the Gaelic-L convention of using "/" to indicate long vowels. ---------------------- > ... a very old and famous phrase from even before the time of > Charles II (who lost Ireland to William of Orange) was translated as > "the grim gap of Death". I cannot find my references to it, but perhaps > someone on the list could help. > The first word was (I am certain of this part) either " bearnas" or > "bearnach" (I could see how either might translate) and the second word > seeming to be "bhoghail". But the second word is something I can only > see in my minds eyes and that from many too many years ago. ---------------------- Checked O/ Do/naill's dictionary: "An bhearna bhaoil" = "the gap of danger" or "the breach of battle". Dennis

A chairde, Mike Ruddy has stolen my thunder! Of course languages have regional variations. So as an Ulsterman that learned his gaelic in the Donegal gealteachts I am forced to disagree with Bob Nolan's pronounciation. I'm sorry Bob neither Dineen or I would agree with your spelling either. I was glad to see my comments uncovered some of J.B. O'Rielly's poetry. J.B. is well known here for his escape from the Fremantle prison colony, he went on to promote the escape of seven of his comrades, which was organised and financed by Irish American sympathisers. JB O' Rielly's pub is well worth a visit if anyone makes it to Western Australia. Is Mise le meas, Eamonn Eamon, I sent a reply to another query on the same Irish battlecry. Might you agree with what follows?! "Is this the cry 'Faugh an Ballagh' that you enquire about? Thomas Francis Meagher's Irish Brigade are known to have made much use of this call. Pronounced literally, 'Fog on Balok', it means, 'Get out of the way' or more simply 'OUT OF THE WAY'! The correct spelling of 'Faugh' is 'Fhag' (pronounced the same as above), whilst the correct spelling for 'Ballagh' is 'Bealach'. Regards Bob Nolan Dublin, Ireland." ----- Original Message ----- From: McNulty, Eamonn <Eamonn.McNulty@health.wa.gov.au> To: <CIVIL-WAR-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 1:39 AM Subject: RE: [Civil-War-Irish] Faces > A cairde > > "Riam nar druid ar sbarin lann" > > More literally might be translated as > > "Ever don't close on loaded spears" I don't claim to be a Gaelic expert.I > cant find it in Rev. Patrick Dineen's dictionary circa 1920- the definitive > dictionary of the Irish language. > > "Never Retreat From a Clash of Spears" has a much nicer ring to my ear at > least. > > Interestingly Dineen gives "Fag (fada on the a) an Bealach" simply as clear > the way. I pefer your spelling as it predates Dineen by some 60 years and is > probably more authentic in portraying the actual battle cry used by the > Irish Americans. > > Is mise le meas > > Eamonn mac an Ultaigh > > Eamonn McNulty.(Western Australia) > > -----Original Message----- > From: RUDDYsTN > To: CIVIL-WAR-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: 7/8/01 7:20 AM > Subject: Re: [Civil-War-Irish] Faces > > > >I once s aw the Irish Battle Cry given on this forum, does anyone have > it. > >There are a couple of you who speak gaelic, I would love it for an > Irish > >friend. Joanm Keller > > On the flag of the Irish Brigade it says: > "Riam nar druid o sbarin lann." Literally: "ever that-not [never] > drawing > back from conflict of spears or "Never Retreat From a Clash of Spears" > > Another from I belive a Pennsylvania Regiment: > "Faugh a Ballagh" or something similar meaning as I remember it: > "Through > the Breech" > > > ==== CIVIL-WAR-IRISH Mailing List ==== > To review past messages, visit the list archives at > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/CIVIL-WAR-IRISH-L/ > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp > > > ==== CIVIL-WAR-IRISH Mailing List ==== > To review past messages, visit the list archives at > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/CIVIL-WAR-IRISH-L/ > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB > > --------------9823CF51C61A1C274437FB7D-- ==== CIVIL-WAR-IRISH Mailing List ==== To review past messages, visit the list archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/CIVIL-WAR-IRISH-L/ ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB

Hello List, Well, it's sure that there could be more Gaelic banter if there were Globalized fadas. Ah, well... A couple of thoughts then (besides weighing in with the Ulster faction on pronunciation and spelling, having hard won what little Irish I speak from those in the North (Ulster)). That the tradition of Irish (or Celtic) war crys is a tradition that dates past the time when Brennus sacked Rome in 390 B.C. and that the variety is enough for a RootsWeb list to sustain itself. Many are recalled in the songs of the emigres and fascinating to think I still hear the war cry of "O'Donnell Abu!" in the music of one of our local Irish pubs whenever I am in the area. Lady Gregory and William Butler Yeats would marvel at what grew from their idea of a Gaelic Revival during what was assumed to be the time of "the Twilight of the Celtic World". Second, a very old and famous phrase from even before the time of Charles II (who lost Ireland to William of Orange) was translated as "the grim gap of Death". I cannot find my references to it, but perhaps someone on the list could help. The first word was (I am certain of this part) either " bearnas" or "bearnach" (I could see how either might translate) and the second word seeming to be "bhoghail". But the second word is something I can only see in my minds eyes and that from many too many years ago. It is reminiscent of the "breach" into which Shakespeare's Henry V urges his soldiers with the phrase, "once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;" and the Irish context in which I remember it best is a dance (and the music, of course) called "The Walls of Limerick" which is in honor of the braves maids of Limerick who held the besieged city during the Jacobite War by stepping in when their men fell. Shades of Molly (Ludwig) Pitcher! Anyway, if anyone can help this failed memory, I would appreciate it. Best Regards, Phil Lindsey

Eamonn: Would you please render the correct spelling and pronunciation. Lismara!

Hi Mike, RUDDYsTN wrote: > > Do you know when Jones published his book? -------------- 1969 -------------- > Do we know what is his background? -------------- The bio on the end sheet says he was an ex-newspaperman, author, consultant in Office of Inter-American Affairs during WWII, lectured and conducted seminars on international affairs. At time of publication he was a visiting professor at various colleges. He received the Bronze Plaque Award of the Lincoln Civil War Society for "distinguished writing on the Civil War". --------------- > I agree with the implausibility of the story, but hate to dismiss it out > of hand... --------------- Same here. It's true O'Grady blew it out of the water but I'd like to see it for myself - debunking seems to be too fashionable nowadays. Dennis

>Happened to stumble on this the other night: > http://www.28thmass.com/Article_Pronounciation.htm >Looks like "Faugh a Ballaugh" and the other variants are only phonetic >spellings (using English rules, no less <G>) of "Fág an Bealach". >I thought it might be an archaic spelling, but this settles it. Judging >from page 5 in the link above, this was being discussed 20 years before >the ACW. Reference: Teach Yourself Irish by Miles Dillon and Donncha O'Cronin: There is an aspiration, if that is the right word, which is symbolized by the gh at the ending of a word (gh in old Gaelic is an Irish 'g' with a dot over it) Which according to the book gives the sound of 'y' in yet if the vowel is slender e, i, y etc. or like 'g' in "northern German" in magen, bogen if the vowel is broad a, o, u. The 'y' in yet is a tiny rush of air in the forward part of the mouth. What the German sound is I cannot say but only imagine from the German I have heard. But the rush of air in the mouth in the "Lough" in "Lough Gill" tends to create a voiceless escape of air for the end of the word and might give a dozen sounds depending on the speaker and certainly dozens of small variants if the hearer was a native English speaker. When we pronounce 'hollow' vs 'hallo' there is an imperceptible air rush on 'hollow' which is not there (now this is perhaps my own way of pronouncing not a normal one...) in hallo. What is the point you might rightfully ask. The language is a living thing pronounced differently in different locales and the some total of what was rhymed on the Website given by Dennis leads us closer to some pronunciation which moves toward to various Gaelic variants as we make the adjustments. The spelling problem is what we run into in our search of old manuscripts etc. especially if you are dealing with a people who in general are unlettered as (at least mine were) our forefathers were. James Stephens the Fenian leader called himself the hawk (seabhac) which turned into "Mr. Shook" in English newspapers. Now there is one to ponder. Mike

At 03:16 PM 7/16/2001 -0400, you wrote: >"Surrender means that the history of this heroric struggle will be written by >the enemy, that our youth wiil be trained by Northern school teachers; learn >from Northern school books Their version of the war; and taught to regard our >gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects of >derision."---------------------------------General Patrick R. Cleburne > >Soldier in Cleburne's Division Jeremiah That has been the case from time immemorial. Certainly some of it came to pass. Although reconstruction was a partial fulfillment of this bleak outlook and a minority of die-hard republicans tried to pin the label of 'traitors' on the leaders, I do not remember reading anywhere "maimed veterams" of either side considered objects of derision. The beautiful part about the United States is that individual school boards choose the books. I have yet to find Southerners looking on their gallant dead as traitors back then or now. Was your source Irving Buck? Mike

>According to O'Grady (who dismisses this entirely), the recovery and >return supposedly happened the night of the battle, which does make the >story totally incredulous: Sullivan has to get by an entire wing of the >Federal Army just to get to the Rappahannock, swim a very cold river, >get shot while doing so by Confederate pickets who were nowhere in the >vicinity, locate Meagher in the dark, then somehow get back to his own >lines. > >I noticed Jones places the return some unspecified time after the >battle; this at least makes it possible, but both Cavanagh and Conyngham >say that a couple of days after the battle Meagher left for New York and >was gone for some weeks. AFAIK, neither made mention of the incident. > >Looks like the Library of Congress has the "Freeman's Journal" for 28 >Mar 1914, which first published the story; haven't checked, but I >suspect the NY Public Library would, too. Would be interesting to find >out for ourselves what it says. Dennis Do you know when Jones published his book? The book I have says it is a reprint but does not mention the first printing. Do we know what is his background? The book I have indicates some sort of commission to do the work and he seems to have gone to the right places to find his sources. I agree with the implausibility of the story, but hate to dismiss it out of hand even if it appeared in a "Irish Nationalist" newspaper article. It sure would be nice to see the original article...... New York is far off.... Mike Mike

Hello, my name is Jack Connors and I've been reading an article in the local newspaper titled "Bringing History to Life". This article talks mainly about Newfoundlanders who fought in the American Civil War.I've been told that my gggrandfather, Patrick Connors fought in this War but I have been unable to confirm this through records. Would you know how I could go about finding records which lists Newfoundlanders who would have participated in this War. Any suggestions would be helpful. Regards Jack Connors Newfoundland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Desoto Joe" <joey@jcn1.com> To: <CIVIL-WAR-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 6:38 AM Subject: [Civil-War-Irish] Irish-Americans in the U.S. Civil War > Irish-Americans in the U.S. Civil War > http://irishculture.about.com/library/diaspora/blus-civilwar.htm > > Desoto Joe/The Record Man > > > > ==== CIVIL-WAR-IRISH Mailing List ==== > "Remember Ireland and Fontenoy!" > Irish War Cry > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB > >

Happened to stumble on this the other night: http://www.28thmass.com/Article_Pronounciation.htm Looks like "Faugh a Ballaugh" and the other variants are only phonetic spellings (using English rules, no less <G>) of "Fág an Bealach". I thought it might be an archaic spelling, but this settles it. Judging from page 5 in the link above, this was being discussed 20 years before the ACW. Dennis mailto:fran@ees.eesc.com Sterling Heights, Michigan USA

"Surrender means that the history of this heroric struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth wiil be trained by Northern school teachers; learn from Northern school books Their version of the war; and taught to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects of derision."---------------------------------General Patrick R. Cleburne Soldier in Cleburne's Division

Jack - As far as I know, you can check out for enlistments for ANY person who fought though tht standard 1090 form - call your local branch of the National Archives to have one sent to you. Check the box for Pension Records in the upper left hand corner. These record applications should apply for all soldiers - native or foreign born - even if newly arrived in the U.S. (As was the case for my gg grandfather who was from Enlgand, but enlisted in Boston, MA). Just write whatever you know about him - ex: he was from Newfoundland. Kevin --- Jack Connors <chrisone@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote: > Hello, my name is Jack Connors and I've been reading > an article in the local > newspaper titled "Bringing History to Life". This > article talks mainly about > Newfoundlanders who fought in the American Civil > War.I've been told that my > gggrandfather, Patrick Connors fought in this War > but I have been unable to > confirm this through records. Would you know how I > could go about finding > records which lists Newfoundlanders who would have > participated in this War. > Any suggestions would be helpful. > > Regards > Jack Connors > Newfoundland > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Desoto Joe" <joey@jcn1.com> > To: <CIVIL-WAR-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 6:38 AM > Subject: [Civil-War-Irish] Irish-Americans in the > U.S. Civil War > > > > Irish-Americans in the U.S. Civil War > > > http://irishculture.about.com/library/diaspora/blus-civilwar.htm > > > > Desoto Joe/The Record Man > > > > > > > > ==== CIVIL-WAR-IRISH Mailing List ==== > > "Remember Ireland and Fontenoy!" > > Irish War Cry > > > > ============================== > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and > enjoy access to the #1 > > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB > > > > > > > ==== CIVIL-WAR-IRISH Mailing List ==== > "Remember Ireland and Fontenoy!" > Irish War Cry > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy > access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/