First off why do you have to be so rude to me. I was never rude in my comment. Secondly do you not watch what is going on in North Carolina right now, the NCAA fighting for the removal of the Confederate flag off the capitol building they say it stands for racism. They dont even want it on the Confederate memorial. I have to watch and record the news for a living and create transcripts for it and watch it every single day. I know it is a symbol of courage. I DID NOT SAY IT STOOD FOR RACISM. I said people are saying that is what it stands for the NCAA and many others have protested in the Carolinas and other places to have the Confederate flag nearly wiped out in existance. That is wrong. Now I am truly sorry if you were offended by my comments but please, how about not being so harsh in your emails to a person you cant see or even know. Even if a persons opinion isn't the same as yours it is still just that, an opinion. I agree with you on the flag, you just read what I wrote wrong or misunderstood Tonya ----- Original Message ----- From: "irish9" <irish9@adelphia.net> Who the hell said the Confederate flag represents racism???? The "True" Stars and Bars represerents the courage of the south. The 3 x 5 is wrong. Lets end it here . I reenact in a Confederate unit that carried the First National til the end. That flag is a symbol of courage.

Who the hell said the Confederate flag represents racism???? The "True" Stars and Bars represerents the courage of the south. The 3 x 5 is wrong. Lets end it here . I reenact in a Confederate unit that carried the First National til the end. That flag is a symbol of courage. - --------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/

AMEN!! I was born a yankee but I have ancestors who fought on both sides. Half of them were IRISH, they fought on both sides. I love both flags the American and the Confederate and to say that is represents racism is just plain stupid to me. RACISM is people, peoples actions, peoples words, peoples hatred. The Confederate flag is a symbol of our ancestors. And thus should be honored as such. Until people stop using items as a reason for problems in this country it wont ever stop. The problem is the Blindness so many people in this world seem to have. I joined this list to learn about my Irish ancestors and the wars they fought in. Not to fight a new one So can this now end. I thank you kindly. I watched the boy scouts this past memorial day go out and place THOUSANDS, THOUSANDS of American Flags on the graves of soldiers at the Veterans cemetary's. You know what. I dont think anyone else in this country would have complained but the person who started all this. What an honor to do this. Who cares if it isn't regulation size. I mean hello, these soldiers died to give us freedom and you bicker over the size of a flag. I am sure we can just get thousands of regulation flags for those graves, now that would be tacky. I think this really needs to be thought about before its bashed to death on this list. Tonya & Ruth (Daughter & Mother Team) - Slan go foill My Family's Heart, Genealogy & Our Connections http://members.tripod.com/~cheysmom/Geneology.html - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Crazy" is a relative term in my family. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Desoto Joe" <joey@jcn1.com> I did read the post before I responded & the intent of the post was not to try to respond to Dennis, who started this discussion. It was to bash the flying of the Confederate flag by masking it around the logic that the dimensions never existed. I tried to respond within the scope of the list. The flying of the Confederate flag, regardless of what version or dimension, is a personal choice. When walking through a cemetery, you will see small flags in the ground on veterans graves. These flags are not regulation size, would you contact the cemetery director & complain that they never were authorized? Of course not, that would be silly, & the argument that by flying a flag of unauthorized dimensions is wrong? Well, that sounds a bit silly also. Most Confederate flags that are flown today are smaller in stature due to the respect shown the Nation flag of our country. The United States flag is correct in the dimensions while others are smaller out of respect. This list is Civil War Irish, so I do not want to get into an argument with you over unrelated topics, such as the current Confederate flag issue. (unless the administrator allows it, ) In America, I will defend the right of anyone to fly any flag they wish, to not do so, would vastly limit one's own freedom to choose to do so in the future. How would you feel if you were flying the Erin-go-bragh & was contacted by someone & told not to fly it because it offended them. I know what I would say. There were Irish that fought on both sides during the Civil War, this is a fact. To limit our country's acknowledgment to only those that fought on the side of the north is historically incorrect & offending to those who ancestors fought for what they believed in. The KKK is a hate group, plain & simple. They fly the American flag at their demonstrations as well as the Confederate one. Should we associate the American flag with a hate group because of this? The Confederate flag is a part of our history & if you choose not to acknowledge it as such, that's fine, but I hold "the rag" as you refer to it, with much more respect. Desoto Joe/The Record Man ----- Original Message ----- From: irish9 <irish9@adelphia.net> > Joe Go back and read the post correctly before you post. I said there were No 3 x 5 rectangular banners authorized by the Confederate Congress. 3 x 5 Joe 3 x 5. The racist banner hanging in South Carolina has no justification to be there.That is what the post is about. The only 3 x 5 flag authorized was the Naval jack which would dam sure not fly over a Goverment building. You can defend that rag all you want but it still dont belong there. If they were to put up the First or 2nd National I would support it being there. The flag you spoke of in the Museum of the Confederacy IS not 3 x 5. That of the 57th Georgia nor the First Florida. So please dont go on. There are specific dimensional for infanty artillery and cavalry on the battlefag and they are all square. But I dont have time to go on I have to go to Dennys for dinner. Joe

----- Original Message ----- From: irish9 <irish9@adelphia.net> To: <CIVIL-WAR-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2000 12:28 PM Subject: Reb Flags > Joe Go back and read the post correctly before you post. I said there were No 3 x 5 rectangular banners authorized by the Confederate Congress. 3 x 5 Joe 3 x 5. The racist banner hanging in South Carolina has no justification to be there.That is what the post is about. The only 3 x 5 flag authorized was the Naval jack which would dam sure not fly over a Goverment building. You can defend that rag all you want but it still dont belong there. If they were to put up the First or 2nd National I would support it being there. The flag you spoke of in the Museum of the Confederacy IS not 3 x 5. That of the 57th Georgia nor the First Florida. So please dont go on. There are specific dimensional for infanty artillery and cavalry on the battlefag and they are all square. But I dont have time to go on I have to go to Dennys for dinner. Joe > ----------------------------------------------------- I did read the post before I responded & the intent of the post was not to try to respond to Dennis, who started this discussion. It was to bash the flying of the Confederate flag by masking it around the logic that the dimensions never existed. I tried to respond within the scope of the list. The flying of the Confederate flag, regardless of what version or dimension, is a personal choice. When walking through a cemetery, you will see small flags in the ground on veterans graves. These flags are not regulation size, would you contact the cemetery director & complain that they never were authorized? Of course not, that would be silly, & the argument that by flying a flag of unauthorized dimensions is wrong? Well, that sounds a bit silly also. Most Confederate flags that are flown today are smaller in stature due to the respect shown the Nation flag of our country. The United States flag is correct in the dimensions while others are smaller out of respect. This list is Civil War Irish, so I do not want to get into an argument with you over unrelated topics, such as the current Confederate flag issue. (unless the administrator allows it, ) In America, I will defend the right of anyone to fly any flag they wish, to not do so, would vastly limit one's own freedom to choose to do so in the future. How would you feel if you were flying the Erin-go-bragh & was contacted by someone & told not to fly it because it offended them. I know what I would say. There were Irish that fought on both sides during the Civil War, this is a fact. To limit our country's acknowledgment to only those that fought on the side of the north is historically incorrect & offending to those who ancestors fought for what they believed in. The KKK is a hate group, plain & simple. They fly the American flag at their demonstrations as well as the Confederate one. Should we associate the American flag with a hate group because of this? The Confederate flag is a part of our history & if you choose not to acknowledge it as such, that's fine, but I hold "the rag" as you refer to it, with much more respect. Desoto Joe/The Record Man

Joe Go back and read the post correctly before you post. I said there were No 3 x 5 rectangular banners authorized by the Confederate Congress. 3 x 5 Joe 3 x 5. The racist banner hanging in South Carolina has no justification to be there.That is what the post is about. The only 3 x 5 flag authorized was the Naval jack which would dam sure not fly over a Goverment building. You can defend that rag all you want but it still dont belong there. If they were to put up the First or 2nd National I would support it being there. The flag you spoke of in the Museum of the Confederacy IS not 3 x 5. That of the 57th Georgia nor the First Florida. So please dont go on. There are specific dimensional for infanty artillery and cavalry on the battlefag and they are all square. But I dont have time to go on I have to go to Dennys for dinner. Joe - --------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/

Hi, Genealogists: Please join us this weekend for some special chats: Saturday's Schedule: http://huntsville.about.com/mpchat.htm All day...."Pop-luck"Genealogy (pop in and try your luck!)........ 7 pm Eastern time--NORTHERN STATES genalogy...... 8 pm Eastern time--SOUTHERN STATES genealogy....... 9-11 pm Eastern time--CIVIL WAR genealogy....... Sunday's Schedule: http://huntsville.about.com/mpchat.htm All day....."Pop-luck" Genealogy (bring your family tree; try your luck)....... 7 pm Eastern time-- all SURNAMES starting with A-J......... 8 pm Eastern tiime--all SURNAMES starting with K-Z...... 9 pm Eastern time--WISCONSIN genealogy chat...... 11 pm Eastern time--GREAT BRITAIN genealogy..... If you can't make the chats, drop by the forum and post your queries--any state or surname welcome: http://about.delphi.com/ab-huntsville If you need instructions for the chat room or the forum, just let me know and I'll help you. Jean Brandau huntsville2@earthlink.net

----- Original Message ----- From: irish9 <irish9@adelphia.net> To: <CIVIL-WAR-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 12:49 PM Subject: Re: Confederate Battle Flags > I have to disagree. The confederate battle flag first off was unofficial. It > was never approved by the Confederate Congress. The rectangular 3x5 never > was used to well after the War Of the Rebellion was over. During the First Battle of Bull Run in July 1861, the Confederate commanders had great trouble distinguishing their flag from the Union flag. General P.G.T. Beauregard , championed the idea of a new battle flag. In September 1861, he proposed that a design that William Porcher Miles had submitted to Congress as a national flag be adopted as a battle flag. After discussing the idea with General Joseph E. Johnston, the design was adopted (but only after making it square to save cloth) A square flag with 13 stars crossing it to represent the states of the Confederacy. It was far easier to distinguish from the Union flag in battle. Though never authorized by the Confederate Congress, it was used throughout the war. The battleflag > had different dimensions for infanty cavalry and artillery none being > rectangular. This is where we disagree. There were several variations of Southern battle flags used throughout the war & yes, some were rectangular. When Johnston took control of the Army of Tennessee, he called for the adoption of his version of the battle flag - rectangular & borderless. (of course, some units ignored him & carried the version they liked) The Stars and Bars was carried by most of the units as the > National flag. Yes, but not by all. Forget the First Bull Run story it is fantasy as fact a > majority of the units surrendered the First National in 1865. it was the > flag they started with and unless they lost their colors they kept it. > Otherwise the 2nd National was used. But lets make it clear the First > national was carried till the end. If they had it, yes they carried it, but they did not use it for their battle flag. What part is fantasy? You can go to the Museum Of the > Confederacy and I challange anyone to show me evidence of their being a 3 x > 5 it never was, except with the KKK. Is that so? Well the 57th Georgia Infantry Regiments flag was rectangular with a white border. The 7th Mississippi was rectangular. Shall I go on? There are good sources for the colors > the best being "The Battle Flags Of the Confederacy" Glen C Alllen and Wayne > C Piper Collectors Publishing 1975 It shows ALL of the surrendered flags > returned to the ex-rebel states in 1905 you will see none of the racist 3x5 > naval(KKK) flags. Well, the Confederacy only surrendered 71 flags at Appomattox. In all, 545 Confederate flags were captured during the war and turned over to the U.S. War Department. These are the ones that were turned over. Do you think that some made their way to other destinations? Of course they did. The supposition that none were rectangular is false. Desoto Joe/The Record Man

MagsOWags1@aol.com wrote: > > unsubscribe > ============================== To unsubscribe: In the body of the message, type only the command unsubscribe. Do not use HTML - this freaks out the rootsweb computer and it won't understand your request. If you are receiving individual messages, the address to send your message to is CIVIL-WAR-IRISH-L-request@rootsweb.com If you are receiving digests, the address is CIVIL-WAR-IRISH-D-request@rootsweb.com Slainte, Dennis J. Francis Listowner

I gave my best source in my post. It list EVERY captured flag returned to the southern state goverments along with photo's. The only thing even close to a 3x5 was the Atlanta Arsensal issue flags of 1864 issues to the Army Of Tennessee but they were more square in shape. Joe - --------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/

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I have to disagree. The confederate battle flag first off was unofficial. It was never approved by the Confederate Congress. The rectangular 3x5 never was used to well after the War Of the Rebellion was over. The battleflag had different dimensions for infanty cavalry and artillery none being rectangular.The Stars and Bars was carried by most of the units as the National flag. Forget the First Bull Run story it is fantasy as fact a majority of the units surrendered the First National in 1865. it was the flag they started with and unless they lost their colors they kept it. Otherwise the 2nd National was used. But lets make it clear the First national was carried till the end. You can go to the Museum Of the Confederacy and I challange anyone to show me evidence of their being a 3 x 5 it never was, except with the KKK. There are good sources for the colors the best being "The Battle Flags Of the Confederacy" Glen C Alllen and Wayne C Piper Collectors Publishing 1975 It shows ALL of the surrendered flags returned to the ex-rebel states in 1905 you will see none of the racist 3x5 naval(KKK) flags. Joe Kelly - --------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ -----Original Message----- From: Dennis J. Francis <fran@ees.eesc.com> To: CIVIL-WAR-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com <CIVIL-WAR-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Friday, June 23, 2000 12:23 AM Subject: Confederate Battle Flags >A chairde, > >At the battle of 1st Bull Run/Manasses in July 1861, Confederate troops, >commanded by Generals PGT Beauregard and Joseph E. Johnston, carried >their National flag into battle. This flag was the Stars and Bars, >consisting of 2 red horizontal bars separated by a white one, with a >blue field in the upper corner which included stars to represent the >states. But because this flag looked too much like the US flag, there >were several instances where both sides made mistakes as to the identity >of nearby soldiers. To make sure this didn't happen again, Beauregard >requested Congressman Wm P Miles to get the flag changed. Miles said >there was no way this was going to happen, and suggested that the army >adopt a battle flag to be used in place of the Stars and Bars. He also >showed Beauregard a flag he had proposed (unsuccessfully) to be the CSA >flag in March 1861. > >This was to become the best known CS flag pattern - red with a >white-bordered blue St. Andrew's cross on which were 13 white stars - >and was chosen by Beauregard and Johnston for use by the CS army in >Virginia, which later became the Army of Northern Virginia commanded by >Robert E Lee. But while Mile's pattern was rectangular, the army's flag >was square. > >Elsewhere in the South, CS commanders designed and issued their own >battle flag to their troops - there was nothing official about the flag >being used in Virginia. Gen. Hardee, under whom Irish-born Gen. Patrick >Cleburne served, selected a blue flag with a white disk in the center; >Gen. Polk - blue flag with a star-studded red cross; Gen. Van Dorn's >flag was red with a crescent in the upper corner and 13 stars. The list >goes on; there's a whole variety of battle flags that were used. As the >Army of Tennessee was assembled from various commands, up to the end of >1863 each corps were carrying different flags. > >As Beauregard and Johnston took different commands, they would direct >the adoption of their flag, but the resulting flags were not always >exactly as their original. Quite often the flags were rectangular >rather than square, the star in the center was omitted or moved up the >cross, and some of the rectangular ones were much longer than wide, >making for some very different proportions. They weren't always >successful in getting this flag used, either - when Johnston took >command of the Army of Tennessee in late 1863, Cleburne and his division >didn't want to part with their old flags and raised cain. Cleburne soon >got permission for his men to keep their "silver moon" flags. > >For further reading and illustrations: >"The Flags of the Confederacy - An Illustrated History" by Devereaux D. >Cannon, Jr. >"The Battle Flags of the Confederate Army of Tennessee" by Howard >Michael Madaus & Robert D. Needham >Website: http://www.confederateflags.org/ > >Slainte, >Dennis >mailto:fran@ees.eesc.com > > >============================== >Get a MASTERCARD with NO Credit Check or Up Front >Cash Security Deposit and GUARANTEED* Approval! >NO Interest Rate! http://www.dollarsonthenet.com/cgi-bin/track/1631/19

Meagher's Irish Brigade: http://reenact.org/irish/ Sunday Morning Mass for the Irish 69th New York http://www.pathfinder.com/photo/gallery/war/civilwar/cap07.htm 69th Ny 1st Regiment Irish Brigade Civil War ReEnactment http://www.advinc.com/~tmd/civil.html Desoto Joe/The Record Man

A chairde, At the battle of 1st Bull Run/Manasses in July 1861, Confederate troops, commanded by Generals PGT Beauregard and Joseph E. Johnston, carried their National flag into battle. This flag was the Stars and Bars, consisting of 2 red horizontal bars separated by a white one, with a blue field in the upper corner which included stars to represent the states. But because this flag looked too much like the US flag, there were several instances where both sides made mistakes as to the identity of nearby soldiers. To make sure this didn't happen again, Beauregard requested Congressman Wm P Miles to get the flag changed. Miles said there was no way this was going to happen, and suggested that the army adopt a battle flag to be used in place of the Stars and Bars. He also showed Beauregard a flag he had proposed (unsuccessfully) to be the CSA flag in March 1861. This was to become the best known CS flag pattern - red with a white-bordered blue St. Andrew's cross on which were 13 white stars - and was chosen by Beauregard and Johnston for use by the CS army in Virginia, which later became the Army of Northern Virginia commanded by Robert E Lee. But while Mile's pattern was rectangular, the army's flag was square. Elsewhere in the South, CS commanders designed and issued their own battle flag to their troops - there was nothing official about the flag being used in Virginia. Gen. Hardee, under whom Irish-born Gen. Patrick Cleburne served, selected a blue flag with a white disk in the center; Gen. Polk - blue flag with a star-studded red cross; Gen. Van Dorn's flag was red with a crescent in the upper corner and 13 stars. The list goes on; there's a whole variety of battle flags that were used. As the Army of Tennessee was assembled from various commands, up to the end of 1863 each corps were carrying different flags. As Beauregard and Johnston took different commands, they would direct the adoption of their flag, but the resulting flags were not always exactly as their original. Quite often the flags were rectangular rather than square, the star in the center was omitted or moved up the cross, and some of the rectangular ones were much longer than wide, making for some very different proportions. They weren't always successful in getting this flag used, either - when Johnston took command of the Army of Tennessee in late 1863, Cleburne and his division didn't want to part with their old flags and raised cain. Cleburne soon got permission for his men to keep their "silver moon" flags. For further reading and illustrations: "The Flags of the Confederacy - An Illustrated History" by Devereaux D. Cannon, Jr. "The Battle Flags of the Confederate Army of Tennessee" by Howard Michael Madaus & Robert D. Needham Website: http://www.confederateflags.org/ Slainte, Dennis mailto:fran@ees.eesc.com

Thought some might like to check this out IRISH AND POLISH GENEALOGY PAGE. Coat of arms, locations, and meanings, family histories, family mottoes http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jkmacmul/ Desoto Joe/The Record Man

Lets hope this news doesn't change our lists. San Francisco, CA - June 21, 2000 - MyFamily.com, Inc., the leading online family network, announced today that it has entered into an agreement to acquire RootsWeb.com, the oldest and largest free community genealogy site. RootsWeb.com, a San Francisco, California company, is among the most popular genealogy sites on the Internet. With more than 149 million page views in the month of May 2000, RootsWeb.com was second among genealogy Web sites only to Ancestry.com's over 187 million page views, according to Nielsen NetRatings combined home and work statistics. With the acquisition MyFamily.com, Inc. will add RootsWeb.com to its portfolio of Web sites, which includes MyFamily.com, FamilyHistory.com, as well as Ancestry.com, collectively recognized as the premier Internet destination for families. Financial terms of the transaction were not disclosed. Following the acquisition, the RootsWeb.com site will continue to be free to all users and will maintain its own unique Web site address, www.RootsWeb.com. The acquisition by MyFamily.com, Inc. will provide the RootsWeb.com site the financial backing to expand its focus on preserving, sharing, and exchanging family history research. As part of the MyFamily.com network of sites, the RootsWeb.com site will expand with additional technology tools, increased family research content and a greater range of genealogical resources. (The rest of the press release can be viewed here: http://www.ancestry.com/home/celebrate/rootsrelease.htm ) Desoto Joe/The Record Man

Susane wrote: > > If my gg-gfather applied for naturalization/citizenship, would his wife & > children automatically become citizens also? ------------------- Yes. Wives and minor children became citizens based on the husband/father's naturalization. But chances are there's no written record stating this. It's interesting to note that, at this time, a wife's citizenship status depended on that of her husband - while an alien woman became a citizen if she was married to an American citizen, an American woman marrying an alien lost hers. ------------------- > Or would my g-gfather have had to apply on his own? ------------------- Only if his father didn't become naturalized while he was a minor. ------------------- > And if his father never did apply, And if he did after serving in the > Civil War, would his wife & children then also become citizens? ------------------- For his wife and any children born outside of the US, yes. Any children born in the US would already be citizens, so whether he did wouldn't matter to them. A good source regarding the ins-and-outs on naturalization is at: http://www.nara.gov/genealogy/natural.html Dennis mailto:fran@ees.eesc.com

The following is from an article/letter that appeared in the "Irish-American" newspaper, May 9, 1863 (sorry, I don't have the page number). I thought the letter was interesting, moving and might be of interest to some on this list. Although the "Tammany-Regiment",which I believe was the 42nd Regiment (New York), was not known as an Irish regiment, it seemed to consist of many Irish men. I did not bother listing all the companies (it would be too much), I listed just company K to give an example. The Tammany Companies contributed in total 493.50 (pounds) to the Irish relief fund. Diane ------------ - ------------------------------------------------ -------- Camp of the "Tammany Regiment", near Falmouth, Va, April 21, 1863 John O'Mahony, Esq. We, of the Tammany Regiment, aware of the present distress existing in Ireland, beg you to transmit to the Rt. Rev. Dr. Keane, Bishop of Cloyne, the following amount. We hope it may contribute, if only in a small degree, to stop the stream of Irish emigration, and to keep our friends from starvation, so that, this war in which we are engaged being ended, there may be some of our race left at home whom we can aid in placing beyond fear of recurrence both the miseries of famine and the horrors of landlordism. Rt. Rev. Dr. Keane being the first to acknowledge, by his reception of the remains of the patriot McManus, the right of the exile to a resting-place with his kindred in the land for which he struggled, and for whose welfare his last sigh was offered, we select him as the dispenser of our contribution towards the immediate relief of our suffering kindred in Ireland:- J.E. Mallon, Colonel........................................... ........... $25.00 Wm. A. Lynch, Lieutenant Colonel................................ $20.00 Patrick J. Downing, Captain.......................................... $25.00 Wm. O'Shea, Captain........................................... ........ $20.00 Robert C Wright, Captain........................................... .. $10.00 Thomas Wright, Captain........................................... .... $10.00 Maurice Fitzharris, Lieutenant....................................... $10.00 Francis F. Reynolds, Lieutenant.................................... $ 5.00 Company K Ord. Sergt. J. Coffey....... $7.00 William Desmond....... $2.00 Sergt. James Casey......... $7.00 Andrew Clines......... $2.00 James Fennessy.............. $5.00 John McDonough..... $2.00 Luke Burns..................... $5.00 John Maher............. $2.00 Michael Cuddy............... $5.00 Wm. Byrne.............. $1.00 James McGeever........... $5.00 Denis Calahan......... $1.00 Peter West.................... $5.00 Patrick McManus... $1.00 Eugene Sullivan............. $5.00 James McNa(?)lis... $1.00 John Fitzgerald............. $4.00 John Ritter.............. $1.50 Michael Madden.......... $5.00 Thomas Murray...... $1.00 Francis Gaffney............ $2.00 Michael McCormack $1.00 Daniel Kenaly.............. $2.00 Adam Hydenhoff...... $1.00 John Noonan.............. $2.00 Wm. Wallace........... $1.00

I have another naturalization question please. My gg-gparents , COTTER'S & O'KEEFE'S, came to America from Ireland in 1849. My g-gfather , William COTTER. was 9 yrs old. In the Civil War served in the Union 67th out of Ohio. If my gg-gfather applied for naturalization/citizenship, would his wife & children automatically become citizens also? Or would my g-gfather have had to apply on his own? And if his father never did apply, And if he did after serving in the Civil War, would his wife & children then also become citizens? Thank you Susane Cotter

----- Original Message ----- From: <AnneABF@cs.com> To: <CIVIL-WAR-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 1:53 PM Subject: Re: CIVIL-WAR-IRISH-D Digest V00 #74 > William Flinter enlisted in the 37th N.Y.volunteer Infantry ( Irish Rifles) > on 15 Aug. 1862 from NYC when he was 33 years of age. In 1862 a law was > passed that said that any honorably discharged vet over the age of 21 could > apply for citizenship by petition. Does anyone have any info re, this or > where one would search for the info if one were seeking info about an > individual? Jim Flinter > - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- According to the federal naturalization laws, any court of record within the United States had the power to conduct naturalization proceedings. These proceedings usually involved two steps. A man, (or, very rarely, a woman,) visited the court to swear or affirm his intention to renounce his allegiance to his native country and monarch. This was known as the Declaration of Intention. After a waiting period of three years, later reduced to two years, he could enter any court in the country, produce a copy of the declaration, prove that he had resided in the United States for a period of not less than five years, have a person vouch for his character, and present a petition for full citizenship. This paper is known as the Naturalization Petition. If he fulfilled all of these obligations, the court would issue a certificate of citizenship and would retain, as part of its records, the applicant's copy of the declaration and the petition for naturalization. The court would not retain a copy of the actual Certificate of Citizenship. This belonged to the newly enfranchised citizen. Under an Act of 17 July 1862, persons serving in the United States armies (the Union forces during the Civil War), only had to present their honorable discharge and reside in the country for a period of only one year, not five, in order to file for naturalization. This law was intended only for army veterans - navy and marine veterans were not covered under this law, but under a similar law passed on 26 July 1894. However, the Philadelphia courts were apt to wink at this restriction and numerous veterans of the naval, marine and other services used their service discharges to become citizens under the 1862 law. Desoto Joe/The Record Man

Jim you have to go to the county seat of where the veteran was living.Ask in the court house about Naturalization records. On his citizenship application it will have mention of his being a veteran and not having to be a resident for 5 years . New York like Pennsylvania required veterans to have been in country only 1 year and then they were eligible for citizenship. Everyone else had to wait 5 years. Joe - --------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/