In a message dated 07/27/2003 6:56:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, mocsa@earthlink.net writes: > Sorry, but your are wrong here. Even if the southern states seceded > peacefully, > what was left of the old United States would still be the "United States." > The remaining States > would have been the United States. The Confederacy never intended to > overthrow the U.S. government, only separating itself from it. > ( Confederate History 101 ) > It does indeed suite you to be in Confederate History 101, as you seem to not understand that the United States were NOT UNITED after the secession. Like you said there were a lot of legal issues involved in the secession, the United States were not united now, So legally, how could they call the states united? The war was recognized as being between the Union States and the Confederates States, not the United Stated and the Confederates States. The South had taken every legal avenue to act in accordance with the laws towards the Union, in respect to Fort Sumter. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Two days after leaving the Union, on December 22, 1860, South Carolina sent commissioners to Washington, D.C., to negotiate for the delivery of federal property, such as forts, within the state. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Firing on Fort Sumter was the last thing the South wanted to do, but Lincoln, in his cunning to keep a valuable asset, Fort Sumter, broke all the laws of respect pertaining to a separate Nation. Especially that of respecting the property that belonged to the South. xxxxxxxxxxx As matters stood, the three likeliest courses of action available to Lincoln were: to abandon both Sumter and Pickens; to abandon Sumter but hold Pickens; and to set in motion expeditions to relieve both Sumter and Pickens. Lincoln hurriedly signed a series of orders to outfit a SECRET expedition to reinforce Fort Pickens. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX If Lincoln thought that Fort Sumter really belonged to the Union now, why did he move in secrecy? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx You wrote: Was Maj. Anderson overstepping his bounds by keeping his forces at Ft. Sumter ? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Certainly he was! He was on Private Property, property that belonged to South Carolina, and he was given every chance to vacate the property. Carolyn

> It does indeed suite you to be in Confederate History 101, as you seem to not > understand that the United States were NOT UNITED after the secession. Sorry your as wrong as they come. The U.S. did not disappear after the South seceded. All it takes is two States to be in the union for there to be a United States. > The South had taken every legal avenue to act in accordance with the laws > towards the Union, in respect to Fort Sumter. No, they did not have the patience to be effective in their negoiations. Time was on the side of the Confederacy. Anderson was running out of supplies and some advisors were telling Lincoln he should evacuate. After turning back the re-supply ship, there was a good chance surrender without firing on the US flag would have happened. Instead the Confederacy saw the resupply as "War". Washington informed the Confederacy that it wanted peaceful relations but would fight if attacked. This was four days before Ft. Sumter was fired upon. > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Firing on Fort Sumter was the last thing the South wanted to do, but Lincoln, > in his cunning to keep a valuable asset, Fort Sumter, broke all the laws of > respect pertaining to a separate Nation. Especially that of respecting the > property that belonged to the South. Lincoln was very restrained before the firing on Ft. Sumter. Federal forts and arsenals were being overun all over the South. The U.S. mint in New Orleans was even taken over. Lincoln made it clear he would not attack unless U.S. forces were attacked. South Carolina should have taken every boat in the harbor and simply landed at Ft. Sumter without firing a shot. Then that fort like all the other installations would have fallen without Lincoln saying "we were attacked". Everything changed after Fort Sumter. The Federal government would no longer sit idle. Arsenals, like that at St. Louis would now be defended. The Federal government would no longer permit State authority to dictate to it. The South gave the North the war and war now it would be. Lincoln was cunning and it is quite likely he hoped the Confederacy would fall for the trap before he would be forced to evacuate Ft. Sumter. > If Lincoln thought that Fort Sumter really belonged to the Union now, why did > he move in secrecy? > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Of course it was secret, military operations are always secret. He even traveled to the White House in secret. Surely you are not asserting that Washington was not part of the Union ? > You wrote: Was Maj. Anderson overstepping his bounds by keeping his forces at > Ft. Sumter ? > Certainly he was! He was on Private Property, property that belonged to South > Carolina, and he was given every chance to vacate the property. He had perfect justification. The military does not take orders from State level politicians. He had his orders to obey and he needed a resupply. If he did not get resupplied he would have surrendered. South Carolina should have been patient and perhaps as cunning as Lincoln. --Scott Williams

NCarolinaCMF@aol.com wrote: > > It does indeed suite you to be in Confederate History 101, as you seem to not > understand that the United States were NOT UNITED after the secession. Like > you said there were a lot of legal issues involved in the secession, the United > States were not united now, So legally, how could they call the states > united? The war was recognized as being between the Union States and the > Confederates States, not the United Stated and the Confederates States. -------------------------------------- "Two Years after the Ratification of a Treaty of Peace between the Confederate States and the United States the Confederate States of American Will Pay to the bearer on demand Five Hundred Dollars" (from an 1864 Confederate note). Notice it says "United States", not Union States. Every note I've seen issued by the CS government and quite a few of those by States has basically the same statement, outside of the time period and amount to be paid. Obviously not even the CS government thought there was a name change. Who told you there was? Dennis