Derick, I have visited your page from time to time when my research takes me to North Carolina. Your site is commendable, as are many others about North Carolina in the Civil War. Like, you I also have a site dedicated to my home state; namely Pennsylvania in the Civil War at http://www.pa-roots.com/~pacw/ Although I've had an interest in the Civil War since I was in college, I didn't really have the opportunity (time) to seriously get involved until I retired 13 years ago. Since then I've been heavily involved in Civil War research, wrote a book, etc. But what I have learned about studying both sides who fought in the war is that at the time, other than officers, the majority of the "foot" soldiers, navy grunts, etc volunteers had to be trained, etc. Yes, they all shared their personal patriotic beliefs that they were fighting on the "side of right." And, as far as genealogy, you can find your ancestors and the wars they fought in without making decisions about whether they fought on the "right" side. After all, the wars are over...whether they fought in the Civil War, the Spanish American War, WWI, WWII, Korean War, and the later wars in Kuwait and Iraq--what does it matter? The major things that matter in a genealogical chart is DOB and DOD, decedents, etc. Yes, whether or not they fought in an American war is important. But, if, in your research if you find a negative fact about some of your ancestors compatriots, is it really necessary to label them in derogatory terms...particularly when the circumstances occurred 142 years ago? I really have nothing further to say about this matter. Alice Gayley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derick Hartshorn" <DerickH@charter.net> To: <civil-war@rootsweb.com>; <mpruddy@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [CIVIL-WAR] Company E, 53rd Regiment, NC Troops - desertions > Alice, if we let the dead rest in peace, we wouldn't be involved with > genealogy, now, would we. > > As for the desertions, I am well aware of the circumstances that > brought on being aware from a unit. They varied and not all, by any > means, were based on cowardice. The reason many left their units was > to return home to plant of harvest crops. I have several poignant > stories and copies of letters on my web sites that illustrate the > subject quite vividly. Please see: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nccatawm/lanier.htm and > http://carolinakin.com/Letter-index.htm > > Many folks are not aware of the Indian battles that occurred out west > during the time of 1861-65. There are lengthy records in the "War of > the Rebellion" series. > As for the Union units the deserters joined, I'm sure they didn't > have a choice as to whether they would be faced with fighting against > Confederates or Indians. > > The Nat. Park Service has one of the best sites on the web for > locating men and units, both Union and Confederate. > > See: http://www.itd.nps.gov/cwss/index.html Click on SOLDIERS. > For the example below, enter a last name from the list below of a > soldier who joined the Union army. > Click on UNION. Enter North Carolina. > > The response page will list the Regiment and a description can be > found for that unit. > You will note that nearly all regiments were organized in Eastern > Tennessee and were part of the Division of General Stoneman. > These regiments did to my area of North Carolina what Sherman did to > Georgia. > Our Sons of Confederate Veterans Camp is named for a young Lieutenant > who was shot in the back by occupying yankee troops, ten days after > the war ended! > > Owning and working with 15-volume set of individual NC Companies and > Regiments "North Carolina Troops-A Roster 1861-1865," I have never > personally seen a company that had a record of desertions to the > degree of Co. E, 53rd Regiment. Within the accounts of that regiment > are those of many men who deserted and returned to their unit. Those > I did not list. We will likely never know the reason for these > actions on an individual basis. Two families I have studied were the > Cook and Jessup families, many of whom are listed below. They all > joined on the same day and deserted on the same day. I do know that > these families settled in Westfield Twp., Surry County in the early > 1700's. The rest is a mystery. > > --Derick > > > > At 05:20 PM 11/30/2007, Alice Gayley wrote: >>Thank you, Mike. I was thinking along the lines of the fact that looking >>back we all have 20-20 vision, and, how can you really judge someone until >>you've walked a mile in their moccasins. The war ended 142 years ago. >>Why >>not let the dead rest in peace? >> >>Alice Gayley >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Mike Ruddy" <mpruddy@gmail.com> >>To: <civil-war@rootsweb.com> >>Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:27 PM >>Subject: Re: [CIVIL-WAR] Company E, 53rd Regiment, NC Troops - desertions >> >> >> > Derick >> > I would not be too quick to saddle this unit or these men with >> > cowardice. First if someone is missing the company clerk has to write >> > down the reason and desertion is a catch-all phrase. On the other hand >> > several of these men joined the US Army so desertion seems appropriate >> > for them. It depends a lot on the circumstances of the specific >> > incident. Sometimes men were captured and reported as deserted. >> > Sometimes captured men were given the choice of staying in a prison >> > camp >> > or joining the US Army and going out west to fight Indians. Sometimes >> > men left camp to tend to their family or farms and then returned. >> > Sometimes men were drafted into service who didn't want to fight and I >> > suppose they could be called cowards. Men in the north with southern >> > sympathies, men in the south with northern sympathies were sometimes >> > forced into service and would desert to the other side and fight >> > honorably. Sometimes the first taste of battle was too much. Maybe the >> > unit commander was a jerk etc. These men came from Surry County and >> > they >> > were at Drewry's bluff so they were pretty close to home. I do not show >> > action at Drewry's Bluff for November 10 although the following sites >> > of >> > action in Virginia on November 10, 1862 may be near to the area [from >> > Dyer's Compendium: the Union units engaged are given in Dyer] >> > Nov. 10 Action, Newby's Cross Roads, near Amissville NEW >> > HAMPSHIRE--6th Infantry. NEW YORK--8th Cavalry. PENNSYLVANIA--3d and >> > 8th >> > Cavalry; 48th Infantry. UNITED STATES---6th Cavalry; Battery "M" 2d >> > Arty. >> > Nov. 10 Skirmishes, Markham Station and Barbee's Cross Roads >> > ILLINOIS--8th Cavalry. >> > Nov. 10 Skirmish, Gaines Cross Roads PENNSYLVANIA--4th Cavalry. >> > Nov. 10-12 Operations on Orange & Alexandria R. R. >> > MASSACHUSETTS---1st, 11th and 16th Infantry. NEW HAMPSHIRE--2d >> > Infantry. >> > NEW JERSEY--2d Battery Light Arty.; 11th Infantry. NEW YORK--11th >> > Cavalry (Detachment); 70th, 71st, 72d, 73d, 74th and 120th Infantry. >> > PENNSYLVANIA--26th Infantry. OHIO--6th Cavalry (Detachment). UNITED >> > STATES--Battery "H" 1st Arty. and "K" 4th Arty. >> > Mike >> > >> > Derick Hartshorn wrote: >> >> While searching out the military record for a friend, I discovered a >> >> remarkable fact regarding Company E, 53rd Regiment, NC Troops raised >> >> in Surry County, NC. >> >> On November 10, 1862, eleven men from this unit deserted to the enemy >> >> at Drewry's Bluff, Va. While that may be unusual, the fact that >> >> Company E was deeply infected with the disease of desertion. In all, >> >> 23 men from this company deserted, a large number joining the Union >> >> army. >> >> >> >> Does anyone know of another unit with this degree of cowardice? >> >> Does anyone know what event occurred on November 10, 1862 to cause so >> >> many mass desertions? >> >> >> >> The following is a list of the cowards: >> >> (Not included are those who actually deserted but returned to their >> >> units. Otherwise, the list would have added another dozen names.) >> >> >> >> Adkins,Jerry - enlisted 1 Jan 1863, deserted 18 May 1863 >> >> Allen,Joseph A. - enlisted 28 Feb 1863, deserted 21 Feb 1864, Joined >> >> US >> >> Army >> >> Beasley,John H. - enlisted 27 Mar 1862, deserted 10 Nov 1862, at >> >> Drewry's >> >> Bluff >> >> Colson,Charles H. - enlisted 17 Apr 1862, deserted 4 Oct 1863, Joined >> >> US >> >> Army >> >> Cook,Alfred D. - enlisted 16 Oct 1862, deserted 10 Nov 1862, at >> >> Drewry's >> >> Bluff >> >> Cook,Eli - enlisted 16 Oct 1862, deserted 10 Nov 1862, at Drewry's >> >> Bluff >> >> Cook,James M. - enlisted 16 Oct 1862, deserted 10 Nov 1862, at >> >> Drewry's >> >> Bluff >> >> Cook,John T. - enlisted 16 Oct 1862, deserted 10 Nov 1862, at Drewry's >> >> Bluff >> >> Cummings,Henry H. - enlisted 27 Mar 1862, deserted 24 Dec 1863 >> >> Doss,Matthew M. - enlisted 2 Apr 1862, deserted 15 Oct 1862, at >> >> Drewry's Bluff (deserted twice) >> >> Goins,William H. - enlisted 7 Apr 1862, deserted 1 Jul 1863 >> >> Gordon,Nicholas W. - enlisted 27 Mar 1862, deserted (never reported >> >> for >> >> duty) >> >> Gravelly,Hughes M. - enlisted 27 Mar 1862, deserted 28 Mar 1862, >> >> Joined >> >> US Army >> >> Gwyn,Johnson - enlisted 1 Mar 1863, deserted 12 Oct 1864, Joined US >> >> Army (deserted twice) >> >> Hawks,Daniel - enlisted 31 Mar 1862, deserted 9 Dec 1862 >> >> Hicks,William H. - enlisted 13 May 1863, deserted 10 Aug 1863 >> >> Hunter,Jeremiah - enlisted 16 Oct 1862, deserted 10 Nov 1862, at >> >> Drewry's >> >> Bluff >> >> Hunter,Lewis - enlisted 16 Oct 1862, deserted 10 Nov 1862, at Drewry's >> >> Bluff >> >> Jackson,Caleb - enlisted 16 Oct 1862, deserted 24 Dec 1863 >> >> Jessup,Jacob - enlisted 16 Oct 1862, deserted 24 Dec 1863, at Drewry's >> >> Bluff >> >> Jessup,Lee - enlisted 16 Oct 1862, deserted 10 Nov 1862, at Drewry's >> >> Bluff >> >> Jessup,Meshack - enlisted 16 Oct 1862, deserted 10 Nov 1862, at >> >> Drewry's Bluff Joined US Army >> >> Jessup,William S. - enlisted 16 Oct 1862, deserted 10 Nov 1862, at >> >> Drewry's Bluff >> >> Linville,Newell H. - enlisted 16 Oct 1862, deserted 10 Nov 1862, at >> >> Drewry's Bluff (deserted twice) >> >> McBride,William P. - enlisted 16 Apr 1862, deserted 15 May 1862, at >> >> Camp >> >> Mangum >> >> Pell,Elijah - enlisted 16 Oct 1862, deserted 18 May 1863 >> >> Simmons,Amos - enlisted 27 Mar 1862, deserted 15 Sep 1862, at Drewry's >> >> Bluff >> >> Simpson,Sandy - enlisted 4 Mar 1863, deserted 18 May 1863 >> >> Simpson,William - enlisted 1 Jan 1863, deserted 18 May 1863 >> >> Tickle,James - enlisted 11 Jan 1864, deserted 12 Oct 1864, Joined US >> >> Army >> >> Watson,John H. - enlisted 29 Mar 1862, deserted 15 Sep 1862, Joined US >> >> Army >> >> Watson,William A. - enlisted 29 Mar 1862, deserted 27 Aug 1862 >> >> Wilson,Enoch - enlisted 15 Apr 1862, deserted 1 May 1863 >> >> >> >> --Derick > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CIVIL-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Alice, Thanks for mentioning these soldier's own patriotic beliefs. One of my own ancestors stated something so well in a portion of his last letter home to his wife and I wanted to share it. This letter was written on August 13th and 14th, 1864 and my ancestor was killed on August 16, 1864. "I do not think you should be as indifferent as you estimated in one of your letters, should I not be spared too return to my loved ones. Had it been the present generation alone that we would benefit it would have been better to have submitted to the incroachments of that blind fanaticism of the north that has drafted our sunny south with mourning & caused thousands of hearthstones to be desolate. We should remember it is not for ourselves alone we labor. Our revolutionary fathers planted the seed of liberty - nurtured the tender plants & watered it with their blood, & for what? That we, their offspring might eat of the fruits thereof. Are we less patriotic than they? Should it be said, that the sons of such sires have become so selfish that they look only to the present enforcement of themselves & sit comfy and witness the manufacture of the chains that are being prepared for their children? I know you will say no. I am aware that there are those who pretend to believe that this war might have been averted - that it was in the power of certain southern men to have prevented hostilities between the two sections & that those men are responsible for the evils we are now experiencing. I am one of those who do not think it could have been consistant with Southern honor." Edward Harding http://ehardingwbtsancestors.homestead.com/Index.html

As some of may think desertion a bad thing, or think of soldiers as cowards, was not always the case in the civil war. The first thing one has consider is the fact that it was horrible blood bath, and this was on both sides. However I do feel that the men who fought in the south suffered a great deal more then those in the north. But even at that, those men in the north who Volunteered, desertion was high. by the wars end 170,216 white soldiers in the Volunteer army deserted. this also takes in 187 officers. As for Colored troops it was 12,464 and this total includes 24 officers Also included in these figures are 16,365 regular army troops. As for confederate troops in many cases the totals were much higher. By Oct 1863 thoundsands had already deserded the ranks. In 1862 R.E. Lee wrote that the rate of desertion in his army was the reason he did not win at Antietam. As for the men in the southern ranks the problem was hunger in the ranks and hunger at home. The southern soldiers families were starving. Many had no food, money and were being refused credit at stores to get food. Many who had farms, their livestock was being taken to feed the army. Many left with little or nothing, and few getting payed for their stock or food taken. There were many contributing factors on both sides of the line. Do I consider them cowards, no. One has to take in to consideration the kind of war it was. Consider the number of men who died between the ages of 17 and 21. Your time in battle was roughly 30 minutes before you were killed or wounded. Fredericksburg and Gettysburg are great examples of death on a battlefield. I have served my country honorably for 26 years, and never would consider the fact of ever deserting my post or my duty to the people of this great place we call America. But I never had to fight in the Civil War, and if I had would I have ever considered desertion, I can honestly say I don't know. Folks there is a great book out there about what people went through during the civil war. If you get the chance read it, some of you amy look at things a little different. "The People's History Of The Civil War" by Daivid Williams Ted Myers Edward Harding <eharding2@suddenlink.net> wrote: Alice, Thanks for mentioning these soldier's own patriotic beliefs. One of my own ancestors stated something so well in a portion of his last letter home to his wife and I wanted to share it. This letter was written on August 13th and 14th, 1864 and my ancestor was killed on August 16, 1864. "I do not think you should be as indifferent as you estimated in one of your letters, should I not be spared too return to my loved ones. Had it been the present generation alone that we would benefit it would have been better to have submitted to the incroachments of that blind fanaticism of the north that has drafted our sunny south with mourning & caused thousands of hearthstones to be desolate. We should remember it is not for ourselves alone we labor. Our revolutionary fathers planted the seed of liberty - nurtured the tender plants & watered it with their blood, & for what? That we, their offspring might eat of the fruits thereof. Are we less patriotic than they? Should it be said, that the sons of such sires have become so selfish that they look only to the present enforcement of themselves & sit comfy and witness the manufacture of the chains that are being prepared for their children? I know you will say no. I am aware that there are those who pretend to bel! ieve that this war might have been averted - that it was in the power of certain southern men to have prevented hostilities between the two sections & that those men are responsible for the evils we are now experiencing. I am one of those who do not think it could have been consistant with Southern honor." Edward Harding http://ehardingwbtsancestors.homestead.com/Index.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CIVIL-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.