Mike, From what you describe, it does sound like some sort of a Cavalry of Field officers sword, however with what seems to be an address on it, it could be some sort of presentation sword or from the GAR. Was the wrist Guard made of Brass, Steel, or Silver? What about the Wire on the handle? What color was the leather on the Handle. Was the Stars and Bird possibly the makers mark? If so, what was its configuration? Straight line, arch, circle, ect? Below is the title of a book that may help. It is kind of expensive new, but you may find it used on the net or at the library. " American Swords and Maker's Marks, A Photographic Guide for Collectors" by Clegg Donald Furr Keith Bailey ----- Original Message ----- From: <NPeters102@aol.com> > Keith: > > Nice to hear from you. The sword in question looks to me to be of the cavalry > variety -- not quite a wrist breaker, more like a dragoon. It is some 38 > inches long (32 from the hilt) & is slightly curved. It is in a metal scabbard. > The grip has wire wrapped tight under leather. The wrist guard, instead of the > single piece of an NCO/Musician sword, has three pieces. It is this that makes > me think that it is of the cavalry variety. > > As you look down from the top of the sword, toward where the hilt starts, > there are stars & what looks to be a bird, which might or might not be an eagle. > I lean toward the latter. It is not fancy or ornamental enough, IMHO, to be a > Masonic sword. Since Private De Caro was a member of the GAR, I thought it > could be of that variety. However, I have only been able to find pictures of one > style on the Internet & this sword does not look like those pictures. > > There is also the following address engraved on the blade just below the hilt: > > Frank De Caro > 168-171 Grand Str > New-York > > I take that to be an address in New York City, but am unsure. > > I look forward to hearing from you & to continuing this discussion. > > > Sincerely, > > Mike Peters > npeters102@aol.com > > > ==== CIVIL-WAR Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from list mode, email CIVIL-WAR-L-REQUEST@rootsweb.com > and in the text area of the message, type only the word > unsubscribe > >

Listmembers This is to inform you that my new address is mpruddy@bellsouth.net Mike Ruddy List Maintenence Civil War

In a message dated 8/27/03 11:28:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Mfsaggese@aol.com writes: FYI 'Grand St' is in lower Manhattan in Little Italy, which was exclusively {mostly} ALL Italian in the mid 1800's through mid 1900's. Marc: Great info! This would fit since Frank De Caro was an Italian barber from Fall River, Massachusetts. Census records have him living in Massachusetts as late as 1880. Since he died in 1909, I'm betting the 1900 Census has him in New York. But without proof, it is mere speculation. Thanks for the assist. I look forward to hearing from you. Sincerely, Mike Peters npeters102@aol.com

Mike, FYI 'Grand St' is in lower Manhattan in Little Italy, which was exclusively {mostly} ALL Italian in the mid 1800's through mid 1900's. The encroachment of Chinatown in the last 20-30 years has reduced Little Italy to a mere patch of what it once was. Marc F. Campbell

In a message dated 8/27/03 9:51:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kbailey@frontiernet.net writes: The only swords that I know of being used by privates during the civil war, other than what has been mentioned in other posts, is the Sword Bayonet that went with the Enfield and Zouave Rifles. Their is also a type of weapon called a Dirk, which looks like a saber, but it is much shorter...16-20" at the most. I have no idea if they were used during the civil war, but in 1812 they were......usually in the navy though. Do you recall enough of the sword to give a description? Keith: Nice to hear from you. The sword in question looks to me to be of the cavalry variety -- not quite a wrist breaker, more like a dragoon. It is some 38 inches long (32 from the hilt) & is slightly curved. It is in a metal scabbard. The grip has wire wrapped tight under leather. The wrist guard, instead of the single piece of an NCO/Musician sword, has three pieces. It is this that makes me think that it is of the cavalry variety. As you look down from the top of the sword, toward where the hilt starts, there are stars & what looks to be a bird, which might or might not be an eagle. I lean toward the latter. It is not fancy or ornamental enough, IMHO, to be a Masonic sword. Since Private De Caro was a member of the GAR, I thought it could be of that variety. However, I have only been able to find pictures of one style on the Internet & this sword does not look like those pictures. There is also the following address engraved on the blade just below the hilt: Frank De Caro 168-171 Grand Str New-York I take that to be an address in New York City, but am unsure. I look forward to hearing from you & to continuing this discussion. Sincerely, Mike Peters npeters102@aol.com

AJ, I didn't peruse it as of yet....I saw it in passing and plan to return when I get more time{if there is such a thing with 2 children<G>}. Thanks for the tips. Marc

I am sorry, but I am tied up for the next 3 weeks. I told you that it would be a time consuming task. Stone, James has 33 names in New York. Stone, Patrick has 2 names 15th Reg. Maine Infantry & 5th Reg. Tennessee Mounted Infantry. Stone, William has 34 names in New York. By using the Link that I provided GO TO http://www.itd.nps.gov/cwss/ This is where you will enter the NAMES and the state of NEW YORK. It will take you time to narrow down those enlisted in New York, NOT Elsewhere! This is a step by step process. You may not get all 3 together SETTLE for 2? Sorry, This is something you must do yourself, You have a long and tiresome work, BUT, if you find what you want it is worth it. Even if you do not you will learn a lot and that is a plus. I have given you the information as how to do it. Good Luck Richard Callard -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Stone [mailto:pstone8@msn.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 8:45 PM To: CIVIL-WAR-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CIVIL-WAR] Re: Advice?: Getting Started (Sharon and Richard) Hi, Sharon, Richard, and list -- Thanks again for the suggestions on my are-they-or-aren't-they Civil War ancestors (see earlier e-mails, appended). I've done some preliminary checking online and have had no obvious luck, so I humbly turn the details over to you (with apologies for the long message). The three brothers I'm looking for are named Stone -- James (b. ca. 1840), Patrick (ca. 1842), and William (ca. 1844). They were born in Ireland; no specifics on that, but the Stone name has very specific origins in Ireland and comes from the area of Inishmulclohy, County Sligo. (The original name is O'Maolchloiche, closer to Muckley or O'Mulclohy, but I don't know whether they ever were known by that name. They also may have been of a displaced group; one possibility for their origin is County Mayo.) Patrick arrived through New York in 1860, so my working assumption is that his brothers were with him. All three disappear -- this is why I'm investigating Civil War involvement -- until 1867, when Patrick petitioned for citizenship in Philadelphia. In later life, William and James were mainly carpenters, laborers, and mechanics; Patrick held these jobs and also sold liquors and ran a hotel. All three are buried in Philadelphia with, as far as I know, no military pomp. The National Parks site lists three Patrick Stone: Stone, Patrick, Union, 15th Regiment, Maine Infantry (per Ancestry, Company I) Stone, Patrick, Confederate, Martin's Regiment, Texas Cavalry (5th Partisan Rangers) (per Ancestry, Company E) Stone, Patrick L., Union, 6th Regiment, Tennessee Mounted Infantry (not listed on Ancestry) James listings are more numerous and William more numerous still, but none seem to match these three regiments. I have no knowledge of my Patrick's having been in Maine, Texas, or Tennessee, but I guess anything's possible. I'd appreciate any further insight! Best of luck to all of you -- Pat --------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 17:16:17 -0700 From: "callard" <callard@surfside.net> Subject: RE: [CIVIL-WAR] Advice?: Getting started/Finding an ancestor FIRST get everything that you know about them. FULL NAMES, Place of birth, Date of Birth, Where they settled AFTER THE CIVIL WAR. WHERE WERE THEY BURIED did they have a Military Headstone - might give regiment. You have a starting point NEW YORK CITY. IT WILL NOT BE EASY. GO TO http://www.itd.nps.gov/cwss/ This is where you will enter the NAMES and the state of NEW YORK. If the NAMES were common names there will be a lot. Well, we have narrowed it down a bit. You will now have the whether UNION or CONFEDERATE, Infantry / Cavalry / Artillery and Regrement or unit. NOW you want to get the right people. Click on the Regrement or unit and you will find where the person was mustered into the unit. NEW YORK ? All others out. NOW GO TO http://www.cyndislist.com/ Go TO Military Resources Worldwide GO TO US - Civil War ~ War of Southern Independence (BULL, Southern Sensibilities - CIVIL WAR!!) You are going to get an education on this area. GOOD LUCK, Richard Callard ----------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 19:15:09 -0400 From: "Sharon Workman" <workman@dreamscape.com> Subject: Re: [CIVIL-WAR] Advice?: Getting started/Finding an ancestor Patrick, What were their names? There are quick places to search, but the best one I use is for a fee, which I pay each year. It's worth it to me, who is constantly searching, but probably not to you. We enjoy look-ups. Sharon ----------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:44:42 -0400 From: "Patrick Stone" <pstone8@msn.com> To: CIVIL-WAR-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <BAY5-DAV60sBk31TZ14000271ae@hotmail.com> Subject: [CIVIL-WAR] Advice?: Getting started/Finding an ancestor Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello, everyone -- I was watching *Gangs of New York* a moment ago -- paused for genealogy! -- and was surprised by the zeal with which recent immigrants were pressed into Union service. Something clicked: An ancestor of mine arrived in New York in 1860 with two brothers but then disappears until 1867, when all three turn up in Philadelphia. I have to wonder, as he would have been between 19 and 21 in 1861 and very poor. I know nothing of Civil War research, so I'll appreciate any advice. Many thanks! PatGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ==== CIVIL-WAR Mailing List ==== To search our list archives since 1996, go to http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl and enter Civil-War in the list name --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Surfside Internet]

Mike, The 5th Mass Inf. only served for 90 days towards the end of the war. As you mentioned, DeCaro was listed as a Private. The only swords that I know of being used by privates during the civil war, other than what has been mentioned in other posts, is the Sword Bayonet that went with the Enfield and Zouave Rifles. Their is also a type of weapon called a Dirk, which looks like a saber, but it is much shorter...16-20" at the most. I have no idea if they were used during the civil war, but in 1812 they were......usually in the navy though. Do you recall enough of the sword to give a description? Keith Bailey

The "Grand Army of the Republic" was the name attached to the group of Veterans of the Army of the Potomac (the North). GAR was not the name of the Union Army during the war. Just one little change here, the GAR was for all northern army veterans, not just those of the AOP. Also, there was an organization just for officers - Military Order of the Loyal Legion of the United States(MOLLUS). So for those who are very looking for info, if your ancestor was an officer, he might have been a member of MOLLUS. Paula

Ed: Thanks for the legwork & for the URLs. I guess now I'll ask a more specific question. Which of the swords you mentioned would have been carried, if at all, by a Private of Infantry? Sincerely, Mike Peters npeters102@aol.com

>From time to time I try to let members of the list, especially new members, know of an excellent place to get copies of original service records on soldiers, both Confederate and Union. The name of the company is Broadfoot Publishing Company from Wilmington,NC. One note, I'm in no way affiliated with this company. I have personally used this company and have found them to be far superior to the National Archives, even though it costs a bit more. They have a fairly new microfilm system and work to get you the best possible copies, treating you as an individual and not a number. They can also get the information to you in a very short time, rather than weeks or months like NARA. If anyone is interested, you can find their website online at www.soldiersearch.com Hope this might be of help to some of the list members. Also, if anyone needs any information on a particular Confederate soldier from North Carolina, I'll be glad to see if I can be of help. I have information on most of the Confederate soldiers who served from here. I've been very fortunate to be able to acquire many books for my home library that are usually just found in public libraries in NC. The primary sources I use for researching soldiers from NC are: 1) North Carolina Troops 1861-1865 A Roster (15 volumes, Artillery, Cavalry, Infantry from 1st - 68th Regiment) 2) Roster of N.C. Troops (4 volumes printed in 1882 - predecessor to the North Carolina Troops volumes) 3) Confederate Roster on CD 4) North Carolina Regiments 1961-'65 (5 volumes - Regimental histories written by soldiers in the regiments) 5) The Appomattox Roster (Book) 6) Confederate P.O.W.'S - Soldiers & Sailors Who Died In Federal Prisons & Military Hospitals In The North (One volume book and also on CD) 7) Service Records of Confederate Enlisted Marines One note about North Carolina Troops 1861-1865 A Roster. The North Carolina State Archives started these volumes of books in the 1960's, and at present, the project is not completed. To date, only 15 volumes have been published, with the first 13 now out of print. For more information see http://www.ah.dcr.state.nc.us/sections/hp/nc_rostr/default.htm I'm still a bit slow and clumsy due to wearing a full arm cast, but I'm back up and going again. Hope all of you are doing well. Edward

Marc, Is the buckle advertised as old or new? If the answer is old, look for wear on the front and back. Shiny bright, as you described it, leads me to think new. Ask if the buckle has been cleaned. Check eBay for a buckle like this one in current and past auctions. You may find some helpful information. AJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <Mfsaggese@aol.com> To: <CIVIL-WAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [CIVIL-WAR] GAR buckle > In a message dated 8/26/03 9:15:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Dreama055@aol.com writes: > > > Dreama > > I haven't purchased it yet..it's in an antique store...it appears I need to > speak with the seller and ask pertinent questions. Thanks to All of You for the > input/advice. > Marc > > > ==== CIVIL-WAR Mailing List ==== > To search our list archives since 1996, go to > http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > and enter Civil-War in the list name > > >

Pat, Although I can't verify the Company or Regiment for the Union soldiers you list, I can however verify the one Confederate soldier. I have checked the Confederate Roster which I have on CD (not ancestry.com) and found: Stone, Patrick - Texas Cavalry, Martin's Regiment, Co E Edward

There were many types of swords used during the War by both Officers, NCO's, and the regular soldier. Below, I'll try to list a number of these swords. I'm also giving a website with pictures. Even though they are reproduction swords for sale, pictures are available of the different types of swords. Confederate http://www.legendaryarms.com/conswor.html Cavalry Sabre Cavalry Army of North Virginia Sword College Hill Arsenal Sword Texas Dragoon Sabre Mounted, Artillery Officer's Sabre Cavalry Officer's Sabre Staff Officer's (Froelich) Sword Standard NCO (Non Commissioned Officers) Sword Louis Haiman & Brother Infantry/Naval Officer's Sword Foot Officer's Sword Difilho New Orleans Field/Foot Officer's Sword Field & Staff Officer's Sabre CS/British Naval Officer's Sword Foot Artillery Sword (looks like a Roman sword) Union http://www.legendaryarms.com/civilwarswords.html Heavy Cavalry Sabre (Wrist Breaker) USN Naval Cutlass US Dragoon Sabre Foot Officer's Sword Army NCO Sword US Light Artillery Sword US Foot Artillery Sword US Musician Sword Light Cavalry Sabre Artillery Officer's Sabre Cavalry Officer's Sabre Field & Staff Officer's Sword NCO Field & Staff Sword US Naval Officer's Sword Marine NCO Sword There were also many types of knives including the Bowie that was widely used. Edward

Hi, Sharon, Richard, and list -- Thanks again for the suggestions on my are-they-or-aren't-they Civil War ancestors (see earlier e-mails, appended). I've done some preliminary checking online and have had no obvious luck, so I humbly turn the details over to you (with apologies for the long message). The three brothers I'm looking for are named Stone -- James (b. ca. 1840), Patrick (ca. 1842), and William (ca. 1844). They were born in Ireland; no specifics on that, but the Stone name has very specific origins in Ireland and comes from the area of Inishmulclohy, County Sligo. (The original name is O'Maolchloiche, closer to Muckley or O'Mulclohy, but I don't know whether they ever were known by that name. They also may have been of a displaced group; one possibility for their origin is County Mayo.) Patrick arrived through New York in 1860, so my working assumption is that his brothers were with him. All three disappear -- this is why I'm investigating Civil War involvement -- until 1867, when Patrick petitioned for citizenship in Philadelphia. In later life, William and James were mainly carpenters, laborers, and mechanics; Patrick held these jobs and also sold liquors and ran a hotel. All three are buried in Philadelphia with, as far as I know, no military pomp. The National Parks site lists three Patrick Stone: Stone, Patrick, Union, 15th Regiment, Maine Infantry (per Ancestry, Company I) Stone, Patrick, Confederate, Martin's Regiment, Texas Cavalry (5th Partisan Rangers) (per Ancestry, Company E) Stone, Patrick L., Union, 6th Regiment, Tennessee Mounted Infantry (not listed on Ancestry) James listings are more numerous and William more numerous still, but none seem to match these three regiments. I have no knowledge of my Patrick's having been in Maine, Texas, or Tennessee, but I guess anything's possible. I'd appreciate any further insight! Best of luck to all of you -- Pat --------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 17:16:17 -0700 From: "callard" <callard@surfside.net> Subject: RE: [CIVIL-WAR] Advice?: Getting started/Finding an ancestor FIRST get everything that you know about them. FULL NAMES, Place of birth, Date of Birth, Where they settled AFTER THE CIVIL WAR. WHERE WERE THEY BURIED did they have a Military Headstone - might give regiment. You have a starting point NEW YORK CITY. IT WILL NOT BE EASY. GO TO http://www.itd.nps.gov/cwss/ This is where you will enter the NAMES and the state of NEW YORK. If the NAMES were common names there will be a lot. Well, we have narrowed it down a bit. You will now have the whether UNION or CONFEDERATE, Infantry / Cavalry / Artillery and Regrement or unit. NOW you want to get the right people. Click on the Regrement or unit and you will find where the person was mustered into the unit. NEW YORK ? All others out. NOW GO TO http://www.cyndislist.com/ Go TO Military Resources Worldwide GO TO US - Civil War ~ War of Southern Independence (BULL, Southern Sensibilities - CIVIL WAR!!) You are going to get an education on this area. GOOD LUCK, Richard Callard ----------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 19:15:09 -0400 From: "Sharon Workman" <workman@dreamscape.com> Subject: Re: [CIVIL-WAR] Advice?: Getting started/Finding an ancestor Patrick, What were their names? There are quick places to search, but the best one I use is for a fee, which I pay each year. It's worth it to me, who is constantly searching, but probably not to you. We enjoy look-ups. Sharon ----------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:44:42 -0400 From: "Patrick Stone" <pstone8@msn.com> To: CIVIL-WAR-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <BAY5-DAV60sBk31TZ14000271ae@hotmail.com> Subject: [CIVIL-WAR] Advice?: Getting started/Finding an ancestor Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello, everyone -- I was watching *Gangs of New York* a moment ago -- paused for genealogy! -- and was surprised by the zeal with which recent immigrants were pressed into Union service. Something clicked: An ancestor of mine arrived in New York in 1860 with two brothers but then disappears until 1867, when all three turn up in Philadelphia. I have to wonder, as he would have been between 19 and 21 in 1861 and very poor. I know nothing of Civil War research, so I'll appreciate any advice. Many thanks! PatGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

In a message dated 8/26/03 9:15:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dreama055@aol.com writes: > Dreama I haven't purchased it yet..it's in an antique store...it appears I need to speak with the seller and ask pertinent questions. Thanks to All of You for the input/advice. Marc

I have seen a sword, that has been documented as owned by Private Frank De Caro of the 5th Massachusetts "unattached" Infantry. I know that enlisted men may have carried a musician/NCO type sword. I know that enlisted men of the cavalry also carried sabers. Are there any other examples of enlisted men carrying swords during the Civil War that I am overlooking? Thank you in advance for any information. Sincerely, Mike Peters npeters102@aol.com

In a message dated 08/26/2003 10:40:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Mfsaggese@aol.com writes: > I have the oppurtunity to purchase a rectangular belt buckle which has > GAR > {overlapping letters} in the middle of the buckle and the four branches of > the military symbols in each corner {crossed sabers, cannon, rifles, anchor} > the > letters and symbols are all raised off the surface...does anyone recognize > this as civil war era ? Here is some information on GAR. Where did you purchase the buckle, if I may ask, and does it look old? Dreama In 1866, Union Veterans of the Civil War organized into the Grand Army of the Republic (GAR) and became a social and political force that would control the destiny of the nation for more than six decades. Membership in the veterans' organization was restricted to individuals who had served in the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, or Revenue Cutter Service during the Civil War, thereby limiting the life span of the GAR. The GAR existed until 1956. In 1881 the GAR formed the Sons of Veterans of the United States of America (SV) to carry on its traditions and memory long after the GAR had ceased to exist. Membership was open to any man who could prove ancestry to a member of the GAR or to a veteran eligible for membership in the GAR. In later years, men who did not have the ancestry to qualify for hereditary membership, but who demonstrated a genuine interest in the Civil War and could subscribe to the purpose and objectives of the SUVCW, were admitted as Associates. This practice continues today.

AJ, Interesting point.....Thank You. Marc

Marc, I would suggest to you to consider if this is a reproduction buckle or not. Reproductions are fine to have if you know they are reproductions. You don't want to pay the price of an old piece and it not be old, however. AJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <Mfsaggese@aol.com> To: <CIVIL-WAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 9:39 AM Subject: [CIVIL-WAR] GAR buckle > Hello All, > I have the oppurtunity to purchase a rectangular belt buckle which has GAR > {overlapping letters} in the middle of the buckle and the four branches of > the military symbols in each corner {crossed sabers, cannon, rifles, anchor} the > letters and symbols are all raised off the surface...does anyone recognize > this as civil war era ? It is a shiny gold color, perhaps brass and some other > metal? any info would be appreciated, at this time I have no photo of it. > Thanks in advance, > Marc F. Campbell > > > ==== CIVIL-WAR Mailing List ==== > To search our list archives since 1996, go to > http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > and enter Civil-War in the list name > > >