Dusty, you are so right! I have researched this for years and one of the best or most plausible accounts is the one recorded by Gideon Lincecum as told to him in the early 1800s by Chata Immataha - the oldest man in the world. The Univ. of Ala. Press has reprinted this story and that of Apushmataha first published by the Mississippi Historical Association in 1906-1909. More about this publication can be found at the Univ. website www.uapress.ua.edu. Insert Gideon Lincecum's name in author search or Pushmataha in title search. I gave my copy of the original handwritten manuscript and a WPA typed copy to Samford University Special Collections Dept. located in Birmingham, AL . His original copy is in Austin, TX at the University of TX library. It is a beautiful, lyrical story reflecting the seasonal movement of the Choctaw people over several generations. We always keep searching! Jackie Matte ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 11:54 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] choctaw origins > There has always been speculation that, originally, our people came from > Mexico. If you will look at Aztec and Choctaw art, there are images that > are very similar. As an artist, I personally think there could be some > truth behind this legend. One of our creation legends says the first > people > came "from the west". Coming from Mexico, crossing the Miss. River and > into > the southeast would verify that claim. It's really anybody's guess and it > depends on which "expert" you consult. > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matthew Winlock" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 9:06 PM > Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] choctaw origins > > >> I recently read a post on a site, stating:" Did you know that the origin > of the Choctaw was in the central american country now known as Belize > and > that the Aztec kept Choctaws as slaves before they escaped north and > eastward." This was the first time I have heard anything even remotely > close > to the comment. I was wondering if anyone else might have heard or read > anything like this? james >> >> >> ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >> Try Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST pages at > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.html for CHOCTAW > Muster Rolls, Orphans lists, censuses, land records, etc. >> > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to the > list. Write to me, the listowner, at [email protected] >

Thanks Jackie! I don't remember ever reading this anywhere, so I'll check out these sources. After thinking about where I first heard the "from the west" story, I think it came from oral tradition in my family, along with the story of Chatah/Chicksa. I'll ask my dad. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie Matte" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] choctaw origins > Dusty, you are so right! I have researched this for years and one of the > best or most plausible accounts is the one recorded by Gideon Lincecum as > told to him in the early 1800s by Chata Immataha - the oldest man in the > world. The Univ. of Ala. Press has reprinted this story and that of > Apushmataha first published by the Mississippi Historical Association in > 1906-1909. More about this publication can be found at the Univ. website > www.uapress.ua.edu. Insert Gideon Lincecum's name in author search or > Pushmataha in title search. I gave my copy of the original handwritten > manuscript and a WPA typed copy to Samford University Special Collections > Dept. located in Birmingham, AL . His original copy is in Austin, TX at the > University of TX library. > > It is a beautiful, lyrical story reflecting the seasonal movement of the > Choctaw people over several generations. > > We always keep searching! Jackie Matte > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 11:54 PM > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] choctaw origins > > > > There has always been speculation that, originally, our people came from > > Mexico. If you will look at Aztec and Choctaw art, there are images that > > are very similar. As an artist, I personally think there could be some > > truth behind this legend. One of our creation legends says the first > > people > > came "from the west". Coming from Mexico, crossing the Miss. River and > > into > > the southeast would verify that claim. It's really anybody's guess and it > > depends on which "expert" you consult. > > > > dusty > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Matthew Winlock" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 9:06 PM > > Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] choctaw origins > > > > > >> I recently read a post on a site, stating:" Did you know that the origin > > of the Choctaw was in the central american country now known as Belize > > and > > that the Aztec kept Choctaws as slaves before they escaped north and > > eastward." This was the first time I have heard anything even remotely > > close > > to the comment. I was wondering if anyone else might have heard or read > > anything like this? james > >> > >> > >> ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > >> Try Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST pages at > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.html for CHOCTAW > > Muster Rolls, Orphans lists, censuses, land records, etc. > >> > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to the > > list. Write to me, the listowner, at [email protected] > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

I just got back from Los Angeles visiting my daughter and we went to a festival where the Aztec dancers performed. It blew me away! Very different dance style than what we're used to at pow-wows today, and the regalia was out of this world! I took a whole roll of pictures and had my picture taken with the elder. Haven't had them developed yet! I know they usually perform at the Gathering of the Nations, but I've never made it out there for that one. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie Matte" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] choctaw origins > Dusty, you are so right! I have researched this for years and one of the > best or most plausible accounts is the one recorded by Gideon Lincecum as > told to him in the early 1800s by Chata Immataha - the oldest man in the > world. The Univ. of Ala. Press has reprinted this story and that of > Apushmataha first published by the Mississippi Historical Association in > 1906-1909. More about this publication can be found at the Univ. website > www.uapress.ua.edu. Insert Gideon Lincecum's name in author search or > Pushmataha in title search. I gave my copy of the original handwritten > manuscript and a WPA typed copy to Samford University Special Collections > Dept. located in Birmingham, AL . His original copy is in Austin, TX at the > University of TX library. > > It is a beautiful, lyrical story reflecting the seasonal movement of the > Choctaw people over several generations. > > We always keep searching! Jackie Matte > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 11:54 PM > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] choctaw origins > > > > There has always been speculation that, originally, our people came from > > Mexico. If you will look at Aztec and Choctaw art, there are images that > > are very similar. As an artist, I personally think there could be some > > truth behind this legend. One of our creation legends says the first > > people > > came "from the west". Coming from Mexico, crossing the Miss. River and > > into > > the southeast would verify that claim. It's really anybody's guess and it > > depends on which "expert" you consult. > > > > dusty > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Matthew Winlock" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 9:06 PM > > Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] choctaw origins > > > > > >> I recently read a post on a site, stating:" Did you know that the origin > > of the Choctaw was in the central american country now known as Belize > > and > > that the Aztec kept Choctaws as slaves before they escaped north and > > eastward." This was the first time I have heard anything even remotely > > close > > to the comment. I was wondering if anyone else might have heard or read > > anything like this? james > >> > >> > >> ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > >> Try Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST pages at > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.html for CHOCTAW > > Muster Rolls, Orphans lists, censuses, land records, etc. > >> > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to the > > list. Write to me, the listowner, at [email protected] > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

I am an elder in the Mexica Red Tradition, the origin of this dance form, and know something about its history. If you want more information, contact me personally. <[email protected]> Also, I sent a previous email that apparently did not go through about one story that seems to contain a Nahuatl word. Nahuatl is the language that the Aztecs and their descendants speak. If anyone is interested in that data, contact me personally. <[email protected]> Holabitubbe --- [email protected] wrote: > I just got back from Los Angeles visiting my > daughter and we went to a > festival where the Aztec dancers performed. It blew > me away! Very > different dance style than what we're used to at > pow-wows today, and the > regalia was out of this world! I took a whole roll > of pictures and had my > picture taken with the elder. Haven't had them > developed yet! I know they > usually perform at the Gathering of the Nations, but > I've never made it out > there for that one. > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jackie Matte" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:15 PM > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] choctaw origins > > > > Dusty, you are so right! I have researched this > for years and one of the > > best or most plausible accounts is the one > recorded by Gideon Lincecum as > > told to him in the early 1800s by Chata Immataha - > the oldest man in the > > world. The Univ. of Ala. Press has reprinted this > story and that of > > Apushmataha first published by the Mississippi > Historical Association in > > 1906-1909. More about this publication can be > found at the Univ. website > > www.uapress.ua.edu. Insert Gideon Lincecum's name > in author search or > > Pushmataha in title search. I gave my copy of the > original handwritten > > manuscript and a WPA typed copy to Samford > University Special Collections > > Dept. located in Birmingham, AL . His original > copy is in Austin, TX at > the > > University of TX library. > > > > It is a beautiful, lyrical story reflecting the > seasonal movement of the > > Choctaw people over several generations. > > > > We always keep searching! Jackie Matte > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 11:54 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] choctaw origins > > > > > > > There has always been speculation that, > originally, our people came from > > > Mexico. If you will look at Aztec and Choctaw > art, there are images > that > > > are very similar. As an artist, I personally > think there could be some > > > truth behind this legend. One of our creation > legends says the first > > > people > > > came "from the west". Coming from Mexico, > crossing the Miss. River and > > > into > > > the southeast would verify that claim. It's > really anybody's guess and > it > > > depends on which "expert" you consult. > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Matthew Winlock" <[email protected]> > > > To: <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 9:06 PM > > > Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] choctaw origins > > > > > > > > >> I recently read a post on a site, stating:" Did > you know that the > origin > > > of the Choctaw was in the central american > country now known as Belize > > > and > > > that the Aztec kept Choctaws as slaves before > they escaped north and > > > eastward." This was the first time I have heard > anything even remotely > > > close > > > to the comment. I was wondering if anyone else > might have heard or read > > > anything like this? james > > >> > > >> > > >> ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > >> Try Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST pages at > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.html > for CHOCTAW > > > Muster Rolls, Orphans lists, censuses, land > records, etc. > > >> > > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' > WHINE?? Don't post it to > the > > > list. Write to me, the listowner, at > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > To Unsubscribe: > > Send msg. to > [email protected] > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... > "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off > signatures....... > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? > Don't post it to the list...write to me at > [email protected] > > George Ann Gregory, Ph.D. Language Revitalization Specialist Fulbright Scholar PO Box 40184 Albuquerque, NM 87196 http://www.geocities.com/hoanumpoli http://www.drgrammarguru.com Halito Osiyo Cualli Tonalli Tena koe Iorana