Why? -----Original Message----- From: Dusty [mailto:dustyc@microgear.net] Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 4:52 AM To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond There is, but they do not have federal recognition and never will. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Brenda Bond <bcbond@houston.rr.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:11 PM Subject: RE: [CHOCTAW-SE] Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond > Is there a such thing as a Louisiana Band? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dusty [mailto:dustyc@microgear.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 3:07 PM > To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond > > > There is no blood quantum requirement for the Oklahoma Band of Choctaws. I > know someone whose blood quantum is the hundreds who is enrolled. There is, > however, a 1/2 blood quantum requirement for the Miss. Band. > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brenda Messer <44messer@bellsouth.net> > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 10:21 PM > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond > > > > In order to be accepted you have to have be at least 1/16th blood line and > > be able to prove it [at least that is what I think]. I am not up on that. > > in 1906 you had to have an ancestor on the original rolls a[Old Settlers, > > Siler, Choctaw, Dawes, etc,] and/or they had to have received land grants > > from the US. Ii have not studied up on this too much and am not expert on > > this phase of the matter, you will have to go to someone else for the > > answers to this. > > > > In the Dawes Act [on the Dawes Roll, "who RECEIVED LAND under the > provisions > > of the Dawes Act are listed. It also lists those Freedmen who received > land > > allotments as provided for in the Dawes Act", so even if your ancestor was > > living on the reservation at the time of the census of the Dawes ACT, only > > the ones who received the land were included. > > http://my.nanations.com/article.php?sid=31 > > > > As I said, I am just starting into this phase of my research, but I will > get > > there. > > > > I also have some families with the Bond surname also. Who are you looking > > for? > > > > Brenda > > > > The Messerville Gazette > > http://www.geocities.com/windy4448/ > > > > Messer Family Inherited Medical Conditions > > > http://www.geocities.com/windy4448/knowninheritedmedicalconditionsinmesserli > > neage.html > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to the > list. Write to me, the listowner, at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the > list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.... > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes and spelled correctly. > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== DON'T FORGET OUR ARCHIVES. Got a question? Looking for ancestor's name? Check our archives at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST

You will have to contact the Enrollment Office of the Miss. Band of Choctaws in Pearl River, Miss. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Coy/Mary Murphy <CoMaMur@msn.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] 1940 Roll > > Dusty, I would like to find this roll as well, please post if you can. > > Thank You, Mary > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brenda Messer > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 4:27 PM > To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Paul, DePaul or Bond > > Hi Dusty > > Thank you very much. > > Where would one find the 1940 roll ? > > Brenda > > The Messerville Gazette > http://www.geocities.com/windy4448/ > > Messer Family Inherited Medical Conditions > http://www.geocities.com/windy4448/knowninheritedmedicalconditionsinmesserli > neage.html > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.... > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes and spelled correctly. > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > grants > > from the US. Ii have not studied up on this too much and am not expert on > > this phase of the matter, you will have to go to someone else for the > > answers to this. > > > > In the Dawes Act [on the Dawes Roll, "who RECEIVED LAND under the > provisions > > of the Dawes Act are listed. It also lists those Freedmen who received > land > > allotments as provided for in the Dawes Act", so even if your ancestor was > > living on the reservation at the time of the census of the Dawes ACT, only > > the ones who received the land were included. > > http://my.nanations.com/article.php?sid=31 > > > > As I said, I am just starting into this phase of my research, but I will > get > > there. > > > > I also have some families with the Bond surname also. Who are you looking > > for? > > > > Brenda > > > > The Messerville Gazette > > http://www.geocities.com/windy4448/ > > > > Messer Family Inherited Medical Conditions > > > http://www.geocities.com/windy4448/knowninheritedmedicalconditionsinmesserli > > neage.html > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to the > list. Write to me, the listowner, at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the > list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.... > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes and spelled correctly. > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

If you guys are interpreting the letters "IW" on the Dawes census cards as "White Indian", I'm afraid you are mistaken. It stands for "Intermarried-White". dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: <JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 2:13 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: Tribal membership > In a message dated 7/18/2002 11:45:11 PM Central Daylight Time, > Tayawoman@aol.com writes: > > > > Message Board Post: > > > > Pat, many people that intermarried with the Choctaw are listed on the cards > > as "White Indians." This is because the Choctaws considered anyone white > > that was not Choctaw. I hope this may help in your search. You really > > should try to get ahold of a card to check this out. My gggrandfather, > > William R. Matoy who was married to Mary A. Folsom and then my gggrandm. > > Cora Belle Hesler, is one such person. He was full blooded Cherokee and > > was denied enrollment w/ the Cherokees because his farm suposedly was just > > over the boarder of Indian Territory in Kansas. But some say it was indeed > > in I.T. Anyhow, "white Indian" is listed on his card. > > Hope this is helpful. E me at my email if you have questions. > > > > > > Hello Tayawoman, > > does anyone know whether "white" Indians were all excluded from the > final rolls or did some make it to the final rolls? > > Does anyone know the meaning of the word Hopia? I've asked this > question before but have gotten no response. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com >

In a message dated 7/18/2002 11:45:11 PM Central Daylight Time, Tayawoman@aol.com writes: > Message Board Post: > > Pat, many people that intermarried with the Choctaw are listed on the cards > as "White Indians." This is because the Choctaws considered anyone white > that was not Choctaw. I hope this may help in your search. You really > should try to get ahold of a card to check this out. My gggrandfather, > William R. Matoy who was married to Mary A. Folsom and then my gggrandm. > Cora Belle Hesler, is one such person. He was full blooded Cherokee and > was denied enrollment w/ the Cherokees because his farm suposedly was just > over the boarder of Indian Territory in Kansas. But some say it was indeed > in I.T. Anyhow, "white Indian" is listed on his card. > Hope this is helpful. E me at my email if you have questions. > > Hello Tayawoman, does anyone know whether "white" Indians were all excluded from the final rolls or did some make it to the final rolls? Does anyone know the meaning of the word Hopia? I've asked this question before but have gotten no response. John Craven New Orleans

Halito Group: John, I believe I indicated in my presentation on the word Hopiah, that it meant, leader. Imafo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Walker Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4gC.2ACE/957 Message Board Post: I am trying locate any information on Jonathan Walker-married ? Sexton; son, William married Nancy ?; William's son, William Joseph married Elizabeth Jarvis. William and William Joseph lived the in the Blackwater, Miss. region (Kemper County?) around 1856. Does anyone have any information on these families? Thank you.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: GRADY-BOWERS- Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4gC.2ACE/956 Message Board Post: Charlie GRADY and Lizzie (Elizabeth) died same time of a fever before 1880. Had two children. Daughter, Elizabeth GRADY and son, who name I don't know,he was younger. I have my grandmother Elizabeth GRADY birthday as 15 Oct.1872 born in Texas or Arkansas. Probably in TX,in Lamar County.They were supposed to have had a farm near Paris,TX. In the 40s', an aunt checked with a lawyer in Paris. He said the land applications had never been finished??? I don't understand this and have never been to Paris,TX to see what the records actually do say. Could be Charlie died at that time. An uncle, white ot Indian? took the children into his home. When the young brother died, grandmother Elizabeth ran away. I have no record until 1910, when she is found on 1910 Sevier Co. AR Census, with her husband, M.A.BOWERS and 4 children. Any help will be appreciated.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4gC.2ACE/955 Message Board Post: Looking for the information on the card for Lucinda Thomas, card#1596, roll #14927. Would like to more about this woman, I believe she is my gggrandmother. Please email me at bill3554@charter.net. Sharon

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4gC.2ACE/775.1 Message Board Post: Pat, many people that intermarried with the Choctaw are listed on the cards as "White Indians." This is because the Choctaws considered anyone white that was not Choctaw. I hope this may help in your search. You really should try to get ahold of a card to check this out. My gggrandfather, William R. Matoy who was married to Mary A. Folsom and then my gggrandm. Cora Belle Hesler, is one such person. He was full blooded Cherokee and was denied enrollment w/ the Cherokees because his farm suposedly was just over the boarder of Indian Territory in Kansas. But some say it was indeed in I.T. Anyhow, "white Indian" is listed on his card. Hope this is helpful. E me at my email if you have questions.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4gC.2ACE/954 Message Board Post: My great-grandfather's last name is Hues, he had a daughter name of Frances Hues, my mother's maiden name is Kurtz, my grandmother was Myrtle Kurtz, she was of the Hues lineage. My mother says the chiefs name at the time of my great-grandparents was Hoboken and Frances Hues she says was somehow related to the chief's family. Could someone please find my family? I have no lot number. I've been seeking knowledge for many years.

Hi mike I don't know if this will help any at all. but my choctaw great grandma married a william blake mcdade in or around antlers or hugo OK the kids were born in the 20's in hugo . maybe this will help you some. oh we don't know if he had indian in him or not. but grandma was very very choctaw and dark skinned looking her kids were medium skin colored. not not as indian looking so at most we figured he just had just a little indian in him. there is also rumor of cherokee blood and we didn't know if it was behind ggrandma somewhere (byrd or dean and roden) or behind william blake mcdade. hope that helps some. renee Mary and LIL Mike wrote: > > Meant to say deserted by my great grand father .....dont have a first name > for him but a Nickname or middle name of Dade . > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mary and LIL Mike" <maryg@graceba.net> > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 2:19 PM > Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] PEAVY/BOWMAN > > > I am looking for Information pertaining to my Great grandmother > Sallie,Sally,or Salley BOWMAN, Who married a > > man by the last name of PEAVY.Story Is that she is full blooded choctaw > Indian. > > She was Deserted by my grandfather after the birth of her last child .My > Grandfathers Name was Fred PEAVY. > > He was born in Mississippi in 1896. > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.... > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > and spelled correctly. > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > DON'T FORGET OUR ARCHIVES. Got a question? Looking for ancestor's name? Check our archives at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST

Meant to say deserted by my great grand father .....dont have a first name for him but a Nickname or middle name of Dade . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary and LIL Mike" <maryg@graceba.net> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 2:19 PM Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] PEAVY/BOWMAN > I am looking for Information pertaining to my Great grandmother Sallie,Sally,or Salley BOWMAN, Who married a > man by the last name of PEAVY.Story Is that she is full blooded choctaw Indian. > She was Deserted by my grandfather after the birth of her last child .My Grandfathers Name was Fred PEAVY. > He was born in Mississippi in 1896. > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.... > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes and spelled correctly. > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

I am looking for Information pertaining to my Great grandmother Sallie,Sally,or Salley BOWMAN, Who married a man by the last name of PEAVY.Story Is that she is full blooded choctaw Indian. She was Deserted by my grandfather after the birth of her last child .My Grandfathers Name was Fred PEAVY. He was born in Mississippi in 1896.

Halito All: Today I am going to continue with the Harper family and start with the Hanks family. As I stated, the Harpers were said to be full blooded Choctaw. We know this from family tradition, interviews in the "Draper Manuscripts" from people who knew them and testimony before the "Dawes Commission" by people who knew them. There now is additional evidence. I checked the Fayette County Tax Lists and all of the property was listed in the males' name until you get to Mary Harper. I think it is quite significant that they continued some of their matrilineal customs after living in a predominantly Euro-American environment a few years. Also Elizabeth and her families moved between Kentucky and the Choctaw Nation in Mississippi and Louisiana a number of times. Further more, both John and Elizabeth had land in the Choctaw Nation in Mississippi and in Louisiana. Some of these land patents state that they are associated with the "Treaty of 1820" which would be the "Treaty of Doaks Stand". Abraham Hanks' wife was Sarah Elizabeth Harper (Shipley) Hanks Shipley was her mother's maiden name. Her parents' were George Harper and Sarah Elizabeth Shipley Harper. A partial list of their children is: Sarah Elizabeth, Scarlett Rachel,Isaac, and Peter. Peter was George's stepson. Now this is where the story starts to get interesting. During "Pontiac's Rebellion" Sarah Elizabeth Shipley Harper was taken by Indians. While in captivity, she became the wife of one of the men and had a son, Peter. Peter, of course, is Abraham Hanks brother-in-law and he went on the trip to Kentucky with him. It is said that all of the Harpers and Abraham Hanks were very close. Peter was killed one day, by what was believed to be, someone who thought he was a hostile Indian. He left his estate to his mother. However, John, Thomas, Charles Harper and George Harper, a nephew of Peter's, moved onto the land with good claims. This meant they had to be related to Peter in some way. Unfortunately, Nicholas had died in the "Battle of the Blue Licks" by this time. Elizabeth and her family were in Choctaw country at this time. I understand that Choctaws are recognized on the memorial for the "Battle of the Blue Licks" so apparently there were other Choctaws in the Boonesborough settlement area. If I remember my Choctaw history correctly, this was a period of time when the hunters had to travel further and further away from the villages, because the area was becoming hunted out. Kentucky at that time was rich with game. So perhaps this attracted a few of them. Now there has been considerable speculation about how they might have been related to Peter: 1) They could have been additional children of George and Sarah Elizabeth. 2) They could have been the children of George by a different wife. 3) They could have been other children of Sarah Elizabeth's from the captivity. 4) This is one it seems they haven't thought of . They could have been children of the man who fathered Peter, but by a different woman. Perhaps they missed their brother and decided to go see him and then decided to stay. Then they adopted their brother's surname, Harper to be consistent with his and because they recognized that they would adapt more easily in a Euro-American environment with a Euro-American name. Of course this is all speculation, but perhaps the applications I ordered from NARA will give me some clues. In 1830 John Harper went down to Mississippi to apply for scrip in accordance with the "Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek". However, Col. William Ward was very drunk and treated him very badly and refused him. John then sold some property he had in Choctaw Territory in Mississippi and Louisiana. I don't know if he sold the land because he felt compelled to because of the "Removal" or if he was afraid white intruders would just take it away and he would just lose it anyway. The land patents stated the land was associated with the "Treaty of 1820" which was the "Treaty of Doaks Stand". I believe the "Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek" stated that they had to give up the land by a certain date. So perhaps he did feel compelled to sell it. I do know that this trip and the business he conducted on this trip must have been very important to him, because he was 70 y.o. at the time. I'm certain the trip had to have been hard on him. After all, having to walk or ride a horse or a wagon of some kind all of the way at his age. Unfortunately, he didn't accomplish anything. as a matter of fact he lost very, very much. He lost his piece of dirt in Indian Territory. The most significant thing that he lost though, was his heritage and the heritage of his descendants. He lost that heritage to a drunken white man. A drunken white man had the power to determine whether or not John Harper was a Choctaw. Well I know who I am and I am teaching my children and grandchildren who they are. They can keep official cards away from me all they want. I know who I am and I can prove it. A drunken white man doesn't change a thing. Col. Ward denied individuals who appeared full blooded because he believed they were more easily taken advantage of. So if your descendant was denied by Col. Ward you can almost be certain that they are full blooded or close to full blooded. Ward was being paid by two attorneys, who were speculators in Indian Land, for scrip. This is how whites ended up on Choctaw land almost immediately. So there were many Choctaws cheated out of their land in Oklahoma and in Mississippi, etc. This is why there were homeless Choctaws wandering around Mississippi. The government investigated and became aware of it but refused to correct it. Again, the old government refrain, 'we want fewer Indians not more Indians.' Brave Elizabeth Harper Knight Sims and her family took the adventurous approach. They simply did not want to leave their homes. They hid in "Honey Island Swamp" for quite a while and when they finally came out they just remained in Louisiana. I like that kind of spunk and I thank Marcie Lee for telling me that story. Well I believe this is quite a bit for one entry so I'll sign off for now. If anyone has information to share with me please don't hesitate. I sure can use it. If you think I can help you just send me an email. Isn't that what this is all about? Well I'll be seeing you. Imafo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com

There are Guess/Guest surnames listed on the rolls as Choctaw. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Wilson <imafo2002@yahoo.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 9:24 PM Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Guest or Guess > > > Halito Mr. Hawkins: > > I'm afraid that your people are Cherokee but > perhaps at some point they inter-married Choctaw. You > see, I am also Choctaw/Cherokee and the tell/tale sign > of your very famous family is the spelling. I am > speaking of course of the various derivations; Guess, > Guest, Gist. This is of course typical of the way the > surname of the famous George Gist was often spelled. I > am speaking of the famous Sequoya, the inventer of the > Cherokee syllabary. > Although he was unable to read or write a > language, he invented a written language. He is the > only known single person to have been able to > accomplish this daunting task. > You will find the Guess family on the "Cherokee > Dawes Rolls" and you will also find them in the Emmett > Starr book, "History of the Cherokee Nation" I hope > this helps. > > Sincerely: > Richard Wilson > Imafo Hopiah > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes > http://autos.yahoo.com > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Try Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST pages at http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.html for CHOCTAW Muster Rolls, Orphans lists, censuses, land records, etc. >

typo, sorry ...that would be 'Potawotami' Indians who took Sarah and her mother. S. ----- Original Message ----- From: Susanna Noe To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:16 PM Subject: Dumas/ Noe/ Shipley connection All this about the Shipley's is intriguing to me as there is another connection here... In the Dumas MCR [ Scott S. Dumas et al] # 4006 enrollment application is 'Lula Thompson Noe et al' my husbands grandmother. Lula Thompson grandaughter of Keziah Brasher/Brashier whose mother is thought to be 1/2 Choctaw etc. re the Dumas information I am still looking into. Now here is the deal. Stay with me it's complicated... Lula Thompson married John W. Noe, his father was William Thomas Noe, g father Alexander Kell Noe ...who married Jane Berry Thompson . Jane Thompson is the daughter of Sarah SHIPLEY Mitchell Thompson and gdaughter of Naomi Shipley sister of Lucy Shipley Hanks.... who was the mother of Nancy Hanks and the g mother of Pres. Lincoln. Sarah Shipley Mitchell and mother Naomi Mitchell both had their own problems with Indians as well. Naomi was killed and Sarah was taken captive by the Potawami. She was later released to a Frenchman for a barrel of whiskey and a cow...or so that story goes and went back to the Berry Household of her aunt as her father died as well during that time. all were from the Washington Co., area of Kentucky. Crab Orchard etc. I just think this is interesting. Susanna

All this about the Shipley's is intriguing to me as there is another connection here... In the Dumas MCR [ Scott S. Dumas et al] # 4006 enrollment application is 'Lula Thompson Noe et al' my husbands grandmother. Lula Thompson grandaughter of Keziah Brasher/Brashier whose mother is thought to be 1/2 Choctaw etc. re the Dumas information I am still looking into. Now here is the deal. Stay with me it's complicated... Lula Thompson married John W. Noe, his father was William Thomas Noe, g father Alexander Kell Noe ...who married Jane Berry Thompson . Jane Thompson is the daughter of Sarah SHIPLEY Mitchell Thompson and gdaughter of Naomi Shipley sister of Lucy Shipley Hanks.... who was the mother of Nancy Hanks and the g mother of Pres. Lincoln. Sarah Shipley Mitchell and mother Naomi Mitchell both had their own problems with Indians as well. Naomi was killed and Sarah was taken captive by the Potawami. She was later released to a Frenchman for a barrel of whiskey and a cow...or so that story goes and went back to the Berry Household of her aunt as her father died as well during that time. all were from the Washington Co., area of Kentucky. Crab Orchard etc. I just think this is interesting. Susanna

Halito All: Today I am going to continue with the Harper family and start with the Hanks' family. As I stated, the Harpers were said to be full blooded Choctaw. We know this from family tradition, interviews in the "Draper Manuscripts" from people who knew them and testimony before the "Dawes Commission" by people who knew them. There now is additional evidence. I checked the Fayette County Tax Lists and all of the property was listed in the males' name until you get to Mary Harper. I think it is quite significant that they continued some of their matrilineal customs after living in a predominantly Euro-American environment a few years. Also Elizabeth and her families moved between Kentucky and the Choctaw Nation in Mississippi and Louisiana a number of times. Furthermore, both John and Elizabeth had land in the Choctaw Nation in Mississippi and in Louisiana. Some of these land patents state that they are associated with the "Treaty of 1820" which would be the "Treaty of Doaks Stand". Abraham Hanks' wife was Sarah Elizabeth Harper (Shipley) Hanks. Shipley was her mother's maiden name. Her parents' were George Harper and Sarah Elizabeth Shipley Harper. A partial list of their children is: Sarah Elizabeth, Scarlett, Rachel, Isaac, and Peter. Peter was George's stepson. Now this is where the story starts to get interesting. During "Pontiac's Rebellion" Sarah Elizabeth Shipley Harper was taken by Indians. While in captivity, she became the wife of one of the men and had a son, Peter. Peter, of course, is Abraham Hanks' brother-in-law and he went on the trip to Kentucky with him. It is said that all of the Harpers and Abraham Hanks were very close. Peter was killed one day, by what was believed to have been, someone who thought he was a hostile Indian. He left his estate to his mother. However, John, Thomas, Charles Harper and George Harper, a nephew of Peter's, moved onto the land with good claims. This meant they had to be related to Peter in some way. Unfortunately, Nicholas had died in the "Battle of the Blue Licks" by this time. Elizabeth and her family were in Choctaw country at this time. I understand that Choctaws are recognized on the memorial for the "Battle of the Blue Licks" so apparently there were other Choctaws in the Boonesborough settlement area. If I remember my Choctaw history correctly, this was a period of time when the hunters had to travel further and further away from the villages, because the area was becoming hunted out. Kentucky at that time was rich with game, so perhaps this attracted a few of them. Now there has been considerable speculation about how they might have been related to Peter: 1) They could have been additional children of George and Sarah Elizabeth. 2) They could have been the children of George by a different wife. 3) They could have been other children of Sarah Elizabeth's from the captivity. 4) This is one it seems they haven't thought of . They could have been children of the man who fathered Peter, but by a different woman. Perhaps they missed their brother and decided to go see him and then decided to stay. Then they adopted their brother's surname, Harper to be consistent with his and because they recognized that they would adapt more easily in a Euro-American environment with a Euro-American name. Of course this is all speculation, but perhaps the applications I ordered from NARA will give me some clues. In 1830 John Harper went down to Mississippi to apply for scrip in accordance with the "Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek". However, Col. William Ward was very drunk and treated him very badly and refused him. John then sold some property he had in Choctaw Territory in Mississippi and Louisiana. I don't know if he sold the land because he felt compelled to because of the "Removal" or if he was afraid white intruders would just take it away and he would just lose it anyway. The land patents stated the land was associated with the "Treaty of 1820" which was the "Treaty of Doaks Stand". I believe the "Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek" stated that they had to give up the land by a certain date. So perhaps he did feel compelled to sell it. I do know that this trip and the business he conducted on this trip must have been very important to him, because he was 70 y.o. at the time. I'm certain the trip had to have been hard on him. After all, having to walk or ride a horse or a wagon of some kind all of the way at his age. Unfortunately, he didn't accomplish anything. As a matter of fact he lost very, very much. He lost his piece of dirt in Indian Territory. The most significant thing that he lost though, was his heritage and the heritage of his descendants. He lost that heritage to a drunken white man. A drunken white man had the power to determine whether or not John Harper was a Choctaw. Well I know who I am and I am teaching my children and grandchildren who they are. They can keep official cards away from me all they want. I know who I am and I can prove it. A drunken white man doesn't change a thing. Col. Ward denied individuals who appeared full blooded because he believed they were more easily taken advantage of. So if your descendant was denied by Col. Ward you can almost be certain that they are full blooded or close to full blooded. Ward was being paid by two attorneys, who were speculators in Indian Land, for scrip. This is how whites ended up on Choctaw land almost immediately. So there were many Choctaws cheated out of their land in Oklahoma and in Mississippi, etc. This is why there were homeless Choctaws wandering around Mississippi. The government investigated and became aware of it but refused to correct it. Again, the old government refrain, 'we want fewer Indians not more Indians.' Brave Elizabeth Harper Knight Sims and her family took the adventurous approach. They simply did not want to leave their homes. They hid in "Honey Island Swamp" for quite a while and when they finally came out they just remained in Louisiana. I like that kind of spunk and I thank Marcie Lee for telling me that story. Well I believe this is quite a bit for one entry so I'll sign off for now. If anyone has information to share with me please don't hesitate. I sure can use it. If you think I can help you just send me an email. Isn't that what this is all about? Well I'll be seeing you. Imafo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com

Whoa! I just called my mom and left a message at her work number to see if she recalls anything. I will e-mail Evelyn now and will e-mail you at given address also! This would be really weird! Do you know how much Indian blood any of these people had by chance? The name Evelyn rings a bell, but I don't know why. THANKS! -----Original Message----- From: mrsspray@netscape.net [mailto:mrsspray@netscape.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 7:44 AM To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond Was your grandmother's father named Wesley Paul (b. 1879) by any chance? He had a son by the name of Jeff Paul. And Wesley's father was Robert Preston Paul, who was father to my grandfather Hardy L. Paul. You can email me at mrsspray@netscape.net for more information. There's a lot more. Donna "Brenda Bond" <bcbond@houston.rr.com> wrote: >Wow.  I really don't know!  Let me throw some names out and let me know if >any ring a bell.  My grandmother was named Mary Edythea Paul (birth name). >She had several brothers and sisters, but I only remember Jeff Paul, Coleman >Paul and Thelma Paul.   My grandmother, Mary (or "Dite" as we called her) >married Carroll Bond and my father, Charles, was one of three sons.  I do >not know the correct parish, but the towns where I know there are people by >the name of both Paul and Bond are Oakdale and Alexandria.  In fact there is >a family graveyard in Oakdale. > >Does any of this sound familiar? > >-----Original Message----- >From: gc-gateway@rootsweb.com [mailto:gc-gateway@rootsweb.com]On Behalf >Of mrsspray@netscape.net >Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 7:37 AM >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond > > >This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > >Surnames: Paul / Johnson / Hatch >Classification: Query > >Message Board URL: > >http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4gC.2ACE/948.1 > >Message Board Post: > >I'm searching for my Paul family of Rapides parish. Do you have any Pauls >from that area? > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.... >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes and >spelled correctly. >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== To Unsubscribe: Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures.......

Was your grandmother's father named Wesley Paul (b. 1879) by any chance? He had a son by the name of Jeff Paul. And Wesley's father was Robert Preston Paul, who was father to my grandfather Hardy L. Paul. You can email me at mrsspray@netscape.net for more information. There's a lot more. Donna "Brenda Bond" <bcbond@houston.rr.com> wrote: >Wow.  I really don't know!  Let me throw some names out and let me know if >any ring a bell.  My grandmother was named Mary Edythea Paul (birth name). >She had several brothers and sisters, but I only remember Jeff Paul, Coleman >Paul and Thelma Paul.   My grandmother, Mary (or "Dite" as we called her) >married Carroll Bond and my father, Charles, was one of three sons.  I do >not know the correct parish, but the towns where I know there are people by >the name of both Paul and Bond are Oakdale and Alexandria.  In fact there is >a family graveyard in Oakdale. > >Does any of this sound familiar? > >-----Original Message----- >From: gc-gateway@rootsweb.com [mailto:gc-gateway@rootsweb.com]On Behalf >Of mrsspray@netscape.net >Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 7:37 AM >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond > > >This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > >Surnames: Paul / Johnson / Hatch >Classification: Query > >Message Board URL: > >http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4gC.2ACE/948.1 > >Message Board Post: > >I'm searching for my Paul family of Rapides parish. Do you have any Pauls >from that area? > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.... >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes and >spelled correctly. >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/