In a message dated 7/22/2002 4:33:41 PM Central Daylight Time, imafo2002@yahoo.com writes: > > I really don't know where to go from here. It is > really quite puzzling. It's quite unfortunate that the > Euro-Americans were so intent on destroying the > culture and language. Then we wouldn't have such > difficulties. > Do you guys have any ideas? > Hello Imafo, In the case of the Harpers/Hopias it seems the use of Harper was voluntary on their part and not imposed on them by Euro-Americans. Many Indians with Hopia in their names kept their Choctaw names but at least one of the Hopias, Charles, and his descendents, seem to have voluntarily changed theirs to Harper. John Craven New Orleans
In a message dated 7/22/2002 10:21:09 AM Central Daylight Time, wood_owl@hotmail.com writes: > After a prescribed length of mourning (prescribed by > the medicince man or Ikbi), the bones were taken down and scraped clean by > the bone picker who had especially long nails for this purpose. The cleaned > bones were then bundled and placed in a common bone house. You can guess > that this practice was repugnant to Europeans. > Oh, I don't know George Ann, if that would have been very repugnant to Europeans. Afterall the relics that the Churches and faithful have accumulated in reliquaries over the years of so many saints. There was a time that people went very crazy over getting a relic of a saint or someone who was considered very holy and it could get pretty grizzly. There's a reliquary here in New Orleans at the Church of Our Lady of Prompt Succor but I don't remember whose bones are in it. And recently at the church I usually go to, we had the relliquary that carried the bones of the Little Flower, St. Therese of Lisieux. It was extraordinarily ornate. Very beautiful. You mention bone houses. There was something similar in Europe with some church I saw in pictures somewhere where people gathered skulls, and maybe other bones, of the deceased and used them to line the walls of the church. I can't remember what country in Europe or what church but I do remember seeing it. There also have been a number of "museums", such as in Cambodia, with thousands of human skulls from the various wars of genocide that have occured in the last century. I guess none of these are exactly similar to the bone houses of the Choctaw but there are some similarities. Were the Choctaw medicine men only called "ikbi" or were they also called "hopia"? John Craven New Orleans
In a message dated 7/22/2002 10:14:42 AM Central Daylight Time, wood_owl@hotmail.com writes: > Choctaw is a noun-adjective-article language. > > That would be the significance of the location of word order. Also, the > verb > always comes at the end of the sentence. > > George Ann > > Well, George Ann, if I understand what you are saying correctly, if Hopia occurs at the beginning of a name then it designates what that person was, such as if Hopia occurred at the beginning it means either "leader" or "bone picker" but if it occurs at the end it designates what a person did or how the person did what he did? I'm still a bit confused because I take article and noun to mean the same thing, that is that neither is a verb. Or are you saying that if Hopia occurs at the end then it is the verb form of "leader" of "bone picker" and means "leads" or "picks bones"? Or am I just confused right now. John Craven New Orleans
Did Mary Ellen Loving have any children? I'm not sure, but I think I may have a Loving in my family.... possibly related to a Dunaway. I'll search & see what I come up with. Thanks, I'll keep in touch. Linda in OK
Bone pickers apparently were unique to the Choctaw. The Choctaw buried their dead on scaffolds much like the Plains Indians (they also wore their hair in Plains Indians style). After a prescribed length of mourning (prescribed by the medicince man or Ikbi), the bones were taken down and scraped clean by the bone picker who had especially long nails for this purpose. The cleaned bones were then bundled and placed in a common bone house. You can guess that this practice was repugnant to Europeans. One origin story talks about the carrying of ancestral bones in the long trek to Mississippi. I often think about the fact that no mention is made of the carrying of ancestral bones to Oklahoma and how the Choctaw have since been scattered. I have written a poem about this idea. George Ann >From: JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Hopiah >Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 02:51:23 EDT > >In a message dated 7/21/2002 5:15:11 AM Central Daylight Time, >imafo2002@yahoo.com writes: > > > > > > Halito All: > > > > George Ann, I don't doubt that Byington is right, > > after all he is the authority. However, we have all > > seen the situation where Choctaw words, as many > > English words, have more than one meaning. This quite > > clearly must be a case like that or perhaps some other > > explanation is involved. > > My sources are the many translated names in > > history, such as Hopiah Isketena - Little Leader and > > Hopiah Humma - Red Leader. Unfortunately I am at a > > loss as to which meaning might have been used for my > > ancestor. > > I suggest two possibilities could have been at > > work here. One could have been that there indeed have > > been two definitions at work at the same time. The > > other could be that as the custom of bone picking died > > off, the meaning of the word changed. We have seen > > this occur as well, in many cultures. > > This is quite an interesting discussion, I'd like > > to get the answer, however so that I could get some > > clues about my ancestors. > > > > Imafo > > > > > >Hello Imafo and George Ann, > > I am not at all familiar with the term "bone-picking" or the >context >that it is used in. I suspect it has something to do with burial rites >amongst the Choctaws and perhaps other tribes as well. > > Could you all elaborate on the term a little for the rest of us on >the >list who don't know what the term refers to? > > Also wouldn't the role of someone who directs the burials of tribal >members naturally fall to the head priest, if there was such a thing in >Choctaw tribal culture and if there was such a thing as a head priest for >Choctaw religious ceremonies such as burials wouldn't this be the source of >the dual meanings of "hopia" as being both a leader and a "bone-picker"? > > John Craven > New Orleans > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.... >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes >and spelled correctly. >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Choctaw is a noun-adjective-article language. That would be the significance of the location of word order. Also, the verb always comes at the end of the sentence. George Ann >From: JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: Tribal membership >Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 02:44:17 EDT > >In a message dated 7/20/2002 3:50:50 PM Central Daylight Time, >wood_owl@hotmail.com writes: > > > > > > It could mean "the one who buries." I'm wondering if it is a reference >to a > > bonepicker, who was a highly respected person. I do know that the >cleaned > > bones were also buried. > > > > George Ann > > > >Hello George Ann, > > Imafo emailed that it meant leader. Perhaps, like words in other >languages, such as the English word "sail" it could have several meanings. > > I asked Imafo if it might there were different meanings based on >where >it was in the name. If it meant one thing if it was at the front and >another >at the back of a name. > > There are several names with Hopia in it but some have it in the >beginning and some have it at the end. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the >list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Halito All: Especially to John and George Ann, I have just discovered that the name Hopiah definitely was used as a surname for a while. I checked on some of the applications of Charles Harper's descendants and they indicated that he was also known as Charles Hopiah. They stated that they started using Harper because it sounded something like Hopiah. Of course they were very close to and were probably related to the Harper family in some way. I really don't know where to go from here. It is really quite puzzling. It's quite unfortunate that the Euro-Americans were so intent on destroying the culture and language. Then we wouldn't have such difficulties. Do you guys have any ideas? Imafo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com
In a message dated 7/21/2002 5:15:11 AM Central Daylight Time, imafo2002@yahoo.com writes: > > Halito All: > > George Ann, I don't doubt that Byington is right, > after all he is the authority. However, we have all > seen the situation where Choctaw words, as many > English words, have more than one meaning. This quite > clearly must be a case like that or perhaps some other > explanation is involved. > My sources are the many translated names in > history, such as Hopiah Isketena - Little Leader and > Hopiah Humma - Red Leader. Unfortunately I am at a > loss as to which meaning might have been used for my > ancestor. > I suggest two possibilities could have been at > work here. One could have been that there indeed have > been two definitions at work at the same time. The > other could be that as the custom of bone picking died > off, the meaning of the word changed. We have seen > this occur as well, in many cultures. > This is quite an interesting discussion, I'd like > to get the answer, however so that I could get some > clues about my ancestors. > > Imafo > > Hello Imafo and George Ann, I am not at all familiar with the term "bone-picking" or the context that it is used in. I suspect it has something to do with burial rites amongst the Choctaws and perhaps other tribes as well. Could you all elaborate on the term a little for the rest of us on the list who don't know what the term refers to? Also wouldn't the role of someone who directs the burials of tribal members naturally fall to the head priest, if there was such a thing in Choctaw tribal culture and if there was such a thing as a head priest for Choctaw religious ceremonies such as burials wouldn't this be the source of the dual meanings of "hopia" as being both a leader and a "bone-picker"? John Craven New Orleans
In a message dated 7/20/2002 3:50:50 PM Central Daylight Time, wood_owl@hotmail.com writes: > > It could mean "the one who buries." I'm wondering if it is a reference to a > bonepicker, who was a highly respected person. I do know that the cleaned > bones were also buried. > > George Ann > Hello George Ann, Imafo emailed that it meant leader. Perhaps, like words in other languages, such as the English word "sail" it could have several meanings. I asked Imafo if it might there were different meanings based on where it was in the name. If it meant one thing if it was at the front and another at the back of a name. There are several names with Hopia in it but some have it in the beginning and some have it at the end. John Craven New Orleans
In a message dated 7/20/2002 4:57:46 AM Central Daylight Time, dustyc@microgear.net writes: > If you guys are interpreting the letters "IW" on the Dawes census cards as > "White Indian", I'm afraid you are mistaken. It stands for > "Intermarried-White". > > dusty > Dusty, my question about "white Indians" was based solely on what Tayawoman had written in her email. Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding. John Craven New Orleans
In a message dated 7/20/2002 3:30:13 AM Central Daylight Time, imafo2002@yahoo.com writes: > > Halito Group: > > John, I believe I indicated in my presentation on > the word Hopiah, that it meant, leader. > > Imafo > Hello Imafo, that's my bad. I wasn't paying attention close enough. Thanks for letting me know what it meant. Do you know whether placing Hopia at the beginning of a name or at the end of a name had any special meaning attached to it? Some names have hopia in the front and some have it at the end of the name. John Craven New Orleans
Looking for any information relative to Mary Ellen (Loving) Williams, b: abt 1850, d:1901 in or around Talihini, IT (Oklahoma) in the old Indian hospital located there. I have been unable to locate any records regarding that hospital during that time period. There doesn't seem to be any 'Old-Timers' now that know about where the hospital was located or what happened to any records. She was full blood Choctaw, married to a White man, James (Jim) Williams and they had several children. He worked on building the railroad so they must have moved around a lot. She was my Grandmother on my Mother's side of the family. ANY information or leads would be appreciated very much. Maudie Pack
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4gC.2ACE/101.330.1 Message Board Post: i am the g-son of roosevelt bacon. please e-mail me with more info you are looking for. i am needing info on his dad & mom, ALLEN BACON D.O.B. 1868. DIED 20 Dec 1903 SIBBIE BROWN D.O.B. 1866. DIED 9 Dec 1904 THANK YOU T
Halito All: George Ann, I don't doubt that Byington is right, after all he is the authority. However, we have all seen the situation where Choctaw words, as many English words, have more than one meaning. This quite clearly must be a case like that or perhaps some other explanation is involved. My sources are the many translated names in history, such as Hopiah Isketena - Little Leader and Hopiah Humma - Red Leader. Unfortunately I am at a loss as to which meaning might have been used for my ancestor. I suggest two possibilities could have been at work here. One could have been that there indeed have been two definitions at work at the same time. The other could be that as the custom of bone picking died off, the meaning of the word changed. We have seen this occur as well, in many cultures. This is quite an interesting discussion, I'd like to get the answer, however so that I could get some clues about my ancestors. Imafo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com
Richard, do you have a source? According to Byington's Dictionary, "hopi" means "to bury" and "a" as an ending means "the one which." I am sure this was a position of great respect among traditional Choctaws. George Ann >From: Richard Wilson <imafo2002@yahoo.com> >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Hopiah >Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 01:29:45 -0700 (PDT) > > Halito Group: > > John, I believe I indicated in my presentation on >the word Hopiah, that it meant, leader. > > Imafo > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better >http://health.yahoo.com > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the >list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
It could mean "the one who buries." I'm wondering if it is a reference to a bonepicker, who was a highly respected person. I do know that the cleaned bones were also buried. George Ann >From: JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: Tribal membership >Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 03:13:20 EDT > >In a message dated 7/18/2002 11:45:11 PM Central Daylight Time, >Tayawoman@aol.com writes: > > > > Message Board Post: > > > > Pat, many people that intermarried with the Choctaw are listed on the >cards > > as "White Indians." This is because the Choctaws considered anyone >white > > that was not Choctaw. I hope this may help in your search. You really > > should try to get ahold of a card to check this out. My gggrandfather, > > William R. Matoy who was married to Mary A. Folsom and then my gggrandm. > > Cora Belle Hesler, is one such person. He was full blooded Cherokee and > > was denied enrollment w/ the Cherokees because his farm suposedly was >just > > over the boarder of Indian Territory in Kansas. But some say it was >indeed > > in I.T. Anyhow, "white Indian" is listed on his card. > > Hope this is helpful. E me at my email if you have questions. > > > > > >Hello Tayawoman, > > does anyone know whether "white" Indians were all excluded from the >final rolls or did some make it to the final rolls? > > Does anyone know the meaning of the word Hopia? I've asked this >question before but have gotten no response. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the >list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Because we/they will never be able to meet the criteria for being federally recognized. It's quite strict. We do have state recognition by the legislature, for what it's worth. Also, sadly, for the past 4-5 years we have been virtually inactive due to that old dragon that affects so many non-federal groups, leadership problems. dusty dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Susanna Noe <c_snoe@msn.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond > Yes Dusty, why is that ? > > Susanna > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brenda Bond" <bcbond@houston.rr.com> > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 6:48 AM > Subject: RE: [CHOCTAW-SE] Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond > > > > Why? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dusty [mailto:dustyc@microgear.net] > > Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 4:52 AM > > To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond > > > > > > There is, but they do not have federal recognition and never will. > > > > dusty > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Brenda Bond <bcbond@houston.rr.com> > > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:11 PM > > Subject: RE: [CHOCTAW-SE] Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond > > > > > > > Is there a such thing as a Louisiana Band? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Dusty [mailto:dustyc@microgear.net] > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 3:07 PM > > > To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond > > > > > > > > > There is no blood quantum requirement for the Oklahoma Band of Choctaws. > > I > > > know someone whose blood quantum is the hundreds who is enrolled. There > > is, > > > however, a 1/2 blood quantum requirement for the Miss. Band. > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Brenda Messer <44messer@bellsouth.net> > > > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 10:21 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond > > > > > > > > > > In order to be accepted you have to have be at least 1/16th blood line > > and > > > > be able to prove it [at least that is what I think]. I am not up on > > that. > > > > in 1906 you had to have an ancestor on the original rolls a[Old > > Settlers, > > > > Siler, Choctaw, Dawes, etc,] and/or they had to have received land > > grants > > > > from the US. Ii have not studied up on this too much and am not > expert > > on > > > > this phase of the matter, you will have to go to someone else for the > > > > answers to this. > > > > > > > > In the Dawes Act [on the Dawes Roll, "who RECEIVED LAND under the > > > provisions > > > > of the Dawes Act are listed. It also lists those Freedmen who received > > > land > > > > allotments as provided for in the Dawes Act", so even if your ancestor > > was > > > > living on the reservation at the time of the census of the Dawes ACT, > > only > > > > the ones who received the land were included. > > > > http://my.nanations.com/article.php?sid=31 > > > > > > > > As I said, I am just starting into this phase of my research, but I > will > > > get > > > > there. > > > > > > > > I also have some families with the Bond surname also. Who are you > > looking > > > > for? > > > > > > > > Brenda > > > > > > > > The Messerville Gazette > > > > http://www.geocities.com/windy4448/ > > > > > > > > Messer Family Inherited Medical Conditions > > > > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/windy4448/knowninheritedmedicalconditionsinmesserli > > > > neage.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > > > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to > > the > > > list. Write to me, the listowner, at > CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the > > > list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.... > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > and spelled correctly. > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > DON'T FORGET OUR ARCHIVES. Got a question? Looking for ancestor's name? > > Check our archives at: > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > To Unsubscribe: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com >
FYI: I thank Dusty for his assistance... But a older cousin related to me that my family's roots via my grandmother Caussie Fluker are Blackfoot not Choctaw... Nevertheless, indigenous is indigenous... Take care... Peace... >From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] 1940 Roll >Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 04:51:37 -0500 > >You will have to contact the Enrollment Office of the Miss. Band of >Choctaws >in Pearl River, Miss. > >dusty > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Coy/Mary Murphy <CoMaMur@msn.com> >To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:50 PM >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] 1940 Roll > > > > > > Dusty, I would like to find this roll as well, please post if you can. > > > > Thank You, Mary > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Brenda Messer > > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 4:27 PM > > To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Paul, DePaul or Bond > > > > Hi Dusty > > > > Thank you very much. > > > > Where would one find the 1940 roll ? > > > > Brenda > > > > The Messerville Gazette > > http://www.geocities.com/windy4448/ > > > > Messer Family Inherited Medical Conditions > > >http://www.geocities.com/windy4448/knowninheritedmedicalconditionsinmesserli > > neage.html > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.... > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes >and spelled correctly. > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the >list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.... >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes >and spelled correctly. >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
There is no such indication on census dawes cards as " white Indian " it is intermarried White...but My ...my 3rd g grandfathers daughter, who was at least 1/2 Creek Indian lived with the Chickasaw for over 40 years and was listed on their rolls and treated as a Chickasaw.married a Chickasaw man.....he died....she then married a white man.......she was asked to be taken off the Creek Rolls ( her brother had applied for her Creek Dawes enrollment, and when she went to enroll as Chickasaw she found that out ) and placed on the Chickasaw roll because she wanted to keep the same land she had had for over 40 years.....they did what she asked but she is enrolled on dawes , on the Cickasaw rolls as an intermarried white... pat from florida ShiningWindStar Holoce Hotvle Kococumpv NATIVE AMERICAN HOME FIRES New members by acceptance only! www.yahoogroups.com/group/NativeAmericanHomeFires
Yes Dusty, why is that ? Susanna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda Bond" <bcbond@houston.rr.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 6:48 AM Subject: RE: [CHOCTAW-SE] Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond > Why? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dusty [mailto:dustyc@microgear.net] > Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 4:52 AM > To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond > > > There is, but they do not have federal recognition and never will. > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brenda Bond <bcbond@houston.rr.com> > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:11 PM > Subject: RE: [CHOCTAW-SE] Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond > > > > Is there a such thing as a Louisiana Band? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dusty [mailto:dustyc@microgear.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 3:07 PM > > To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond > > > > > > There is no blood quantum requirement for the Oklahoma Band of Choctaws. > I > > know someone whose blood quantum is the hundreds who is enrolled. There > is, > > however, a 1/2 blood quantum requirement for the Miss. Band. > > > > dusty > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Brenda Messer <44messer@bellsouth.net> > > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 10:21 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Last names Paul, DePaul or Bond > > > > > > > In order to be accepted you have to have be at least 1/16th blood line > and > > > be able to prove it [at least that is what I think]. I am not up on > that. > > > in 1906 you had to have an ancestor on the original rolls a[Old > Settlers, > > > Siler, Choctaw, Dawes, etc,] and/or they had to have received land > grants > > > from the US. Ii have not studied up on this too much and am not expert > on > > > this phase of the matter, you will have to go to someone else for the > > > answers to this. > > > > > > In the Dawes Act [on the Dawes Roll, "who RECEIVED LAND under the > > provisions > > > of the Dawes Act are listed. It also lists those Freedmen who received > > land > > > allotments as provided for in the Dawes Act", so even if your ancestor > was > > > living on the reservation at the time of the census of the Dawes ACT, > only > > > the ones who received the land were included. > > > http://my.nanations.com/article.php?sid=31 > > > > > > As I said, I am just starting into this phase of my research, but I will > > get > > > there. > > > > > > I also have some families with the Bond surname also. Who are you > looking > > > for? > > > > > > Brenda > > > > > > The Messerville Gazette > > > http://www.geocities.com/windy4448/ > > > > > > Messer Family Inherited Medical Conditions > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/windy4448/knowninheritedmedicalconditionsinmesserli > > > neage.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to > the > > list. Write to me, the listowner, at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the > > list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.... > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > and spelled correctly. > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > DON'T FORGET OUR ARCHIVES. Got a question? Looking for ancestor's name? > Check our archives at: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >