In a message dated 7/28/2002 5:08:26 PM Central Daylight Time, dustyc@microgear.net writes: > > Nope - not the Jena Band; they have their federal recognition, although it > was a long, hard stuggle of more than 100 years. > > I was speaking of one of the other groups, "The Louisiana Band of > Choctaws" headquartered in West Baton Rouge Parish. There are several > incorporated bands in Louisiana, some of them have federal recognition and > some have only state recognition. > > dusty > > My misunderstanding, Dusty. Thanks for the correction. John Craven New Orleans

In a message dated 7/28/2002 1:20:38 PM Central Daylight Time, slane-hoffield@prodigy.net writes: > ? How did Ifull-blood Choctaws ever get the name "Hattensty", which I have > been told is German, but it could be an interpretation of a Native American > name. > > Hello Shellie, I think they got the name Hattensty the same way others got the name LeFleur and Favre and Brashear and so forth. They either married non-Indians and gave birth to descendents who carried non-Indian surnames or during the times before the War Between the States or in its immediate aftermath they could have been slaves and took the last name of their owners and former owners as did many black who were slaves. John Craven New Orleans

hello M well I think I am on that list, well I'm on the one that was for OK and haven't gotten a post . except the ones I made I think. it has been dead as a door nail. I have been watching here just trying to see if any thing comes up that leads me to the names I have that were in OK. Jackie was a doll and gave me a few leads i'm searching out now. that was muddled cherokee/choctaw blood. thanks Jackie. renee Mhilton33@aol.com wrote: > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Try Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST pages at http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.html for CHOCTAW Muster Rolls, Orphans lists, censuses, land records, etc.

First, To each of you who has been so responsive and helpful, yakoke. In particular to Dusty and Johnny Michael. I am closing in on the objective. I would sincerely appreciate any information on the following that is available: Clayborn Brogdon and his parents. James M. Brogdon (Dawes Choctaw Enrollment Card "2769", Roll "NR") and his family tree. Lilly Brogdon and her family tree. Yakoke again. Joe

I am discouraged, I think you have missed the point. While discussion of the language and names makes sense, the detailed discussion of the bone pickers does not. It has been a long time since anything remotely pertaining to research has been posted. That is what I am on the list for. Jennifer Genealogy Homepage: http://jenniferhsrn2.homestead.com/index.html Other email address: jenniferhsrn@aol.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 1:57 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Appropriate Topics > In a message dated 7/28/2002 12:18:01 AM Central Daylight Time, > dustyc@microgear.net writes: > > > > Richard: > > > > It's OK - We expect occasional slight deviation from genealogy when > > addressing certain issues, as you point out - we just try to keep it to a > > bare minimum to avoid complaints from die-hard genealogists. Bottom line - > > if you don't hear from me, everything's OK!! > > > > > > Does not Choctaw geneaology involve, in many instances, learning Choctaw > names which, in turn, involves a certain amount of understanding of Choctaw > language which, in turn, once again, involves a certain amount of > understanding of Choctaw culture? > > It seems to me that in many instances, at least where the Choctaw are > concerned, it is nearly impossible to separate the geneaology from the > language from the culture because the names of people written in the Choctaw > language are apparently based on what those people did in their lives, such > as the very repugnant practice/custom of bone-picking from which we get one > source of the name Hopia which many signers of the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit > had embedded in their names. > > The same goes for the name Tubbee. And I'm sure there are others. > Knowing what these words mean, I think, can point some of us in the > directions we need to go to find some of our ancestors. Knowing how the > rudiments of the language works can also be of help, I think, in deciphering > the names we encounter and linking those names to others who are related. > > Going throught the Sacramental Records of the Archdiocese of New > Orleans, I've seen how French names would get corrupted when the Spanish took > over and get corrupted once again when the Americans took over. Tracing > names over not only time but also changes in governments and languages is an > interesting experience to say the least. I'm certain it is even more > frustrating at times when working with names, such as Choctaw, that is based > on a language that was only recently written down. > > I think some of the discussions on the geneaology list regarding > language and customs are just going to be unavoidable at times. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.... > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes and spelled correctly. > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

My ggg-grandparents were Moses McLEMORE (1787-1857) and Nancy (Vinnie) BATISTE (1794-1868). Evidence indicates that Nancy was a full-blood Choctaw of Mississippi. Moses was b. in SC, but moved to Giles Co., TN, and then to Wayne Co., MS, in 1815. He owned land in Perry, Jones, and Copiah Co MS. He served in the War of 1812 with the West Tennessee Militia. He died in Copiah Co MS. Nancy was probably b. in MS. At least one census record says SC, but there is no evidence to support the existence of a Batiste family in SC. Nancy and Moses married in about 1814-1815, and I suspect they met while Moses was serving in the War of 1812. Various family traditions say that Nancy's grandchildren were 1/4 Indian, and the early Choctaw Indian rolls for Mississippi show Indian families using the surname of "Batiste" (various spellings). One tradition is as follows: “In 1918 my parents, my brother and I lived near my Uncle Lillard Coleman and his wife, Alwilda, who was part Indian. At that time I was 8 years old. I recall their talking about my g-g-grandparents, the McLemores. Alwilda said Nancy Vinnie Batiste was the daughter of an Indian Chief in MS. Nothing was written down, so I only have what I remember hearing.” Also, it has always been said that my grandmother, Sallie (Fairchild) Smith, was part Indian. Her parents were first cousins and both were grandchildren of Moses and Nancy. The 1931 Armstrong Roll of Choctaws (in Mississippi), Records of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, RG 75 (film 1033993) has the following "Batiste" entries: BATTIESE, no acreage, 2 in family, near Capt I. Folsom, in Capt Folsom's Company, under Chief ---?---. BATTIECE, William, 3 acres, 7 in family, 2 males over 16, 2 persons under 10, on Shobatti Creek (E. Side), in Capt. Tamapiyubbia's Company (Shobatti Creed, W-side), under Chief Netachachi (Chief of the Southern District, with land on e-side Patkachi Creek). BAPTEN, Isaac, no acreage, 3 in family, 1 male over 16, 1 person under 10, on Old Natchez Trace, in Tom Leflore's Company, under Capt. Durant (Indian), under Chief Greenwood Lefore (Indian). BATIEST, Benjamin, on Chickasaway River. BATIEST, Winney, on Chickasaway River. That is all I know about my Indian ancestry. If anyone can tell me more about the Batiste family, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Merritt D. Mullen Ridgecrest, CA mmullen8014@mchsi.com

Nope - not the Jena Band; they have their federal recognition, although it was a long, hard stuggle of more than 100 years. I was speaking of one of the other groups, "The Louisiana Band of Choctaws" headquartered in West Baton Rouge Parish. There are several incorporated bands in Louisiana, some of them have federal recognition and some have only state recognition. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: <JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 1:28 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] FOR TAMMY: Jena Band of Choctaws > In a message dated 7/27/2002 10:42:21 AM Central Daylight Time, > dustyc@microgear.net writes: > > > > > > Tammy: > > > > Get in touch with Sharon Brown, 105 Gum St., Jonesboro, La. 71251. She is a > > professional genealogist who did the research to get the Jena Band their > > federal recognition. > > > > dusty > > > > Dusty, > > I thought you said on the list a while back that the Jena band never > got and will likely not get federal recognition because of leadership > problems or something like that? > > John Craven > New Orleans > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information. Try Judy White's NATIVE AMERICAN RESOURCE CENTER at http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, newsletters, lookups, articles, etc. >

Hi, I just began receiving this e-mail this week as a result of a recent experience that spurred my interest in the Choctaw string of my own heritage, something I know so little about. I was loving the historical info and anecdotes that I was reading. If that is now being sent through another listing, would you please let me know the list so I can continue to read? By the way, all I know of my Choctaw ancestor is the surname Blue and he was in Louisiana, and probably lived in the northeastern quadrant of the state. However, my maternal grandmother, who was perhaps 1/8 or less of this heritage, had the physical Choctaw characteristics. Susan > Halito All: > > The original question is attached. It is clearly > a genealogical question. That the discussion needed to > get into history, culture, etc. doesn't change the > fact that it is being done to answer a genealogical > question, which if asked on the other site would have > been referred back to this site. It doesn't make sense > to chase discussions all over the web, and who would > do that anyway? It makes more sense that a discussion > remain where it started. > As I stated, this is the third time that I have > been thwarted in pursuing lines of inquiry, and what I > consider to be important questions about my ancestry > were not pursued. As in this case, the discussion is > dropped and the questions will not be answered. So > what am I doing here? > I am leaving this list to the purists who are > watching to make certain that nothing occurs on this > site but the sterile listing of surnames. > > Imafo > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > --0-1590421475-1027881713=:19392 > Content-Type: message/rfc822 > > X-Apparently-To: imafo2002@yahoo.com via -40.-120.-83.80; 13 Jul 2002 23:41:34 -0700 (PDT) > X-Track: 1: 100 > Return-Path: <choctaw-southeast-l-request@rootsweb.com> > Received: from 207.40.200.41 (EHLO lists5.rootsweb.com) (207.40.200.41) > by mta628.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2002 23:41:33 -0700 (PDT) > Received: (from slist@localhost) > by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.12.4/8.12.4) id g6E6bk4p031775; > Sun, 14 Jul 2002 00:37:46 -0600 > Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 00:37:46 -0600 > X-Original-Sender: imafo2002@yahoo.com Sun Jul 14 00:37:45 2002 > Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 23:37:58 -0700 (PDT) > From: Richard Wilson <imafo2002@yahoo.com> > Old-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Questions about the name Hopiah > Resent-Message-ID: <KvYl8.A.wvH.5wRM9@lists5.rootsweb.com> > To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > Resent-From: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > X-Mailing-List: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/15013 > X-Loop: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > Precedence: list > Resent-Sender: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Content-Length: 686 > > Halito All: > > My gggg-grandfather John Harper who was said to > have been full blooded Choctaw was sometimes known as > Johnnie Hopiah. Now I Know the name Hopiah means > leader and that it would usually be associated with > another name, such as Humma. As in Hopiah Humma (Red > Leader) for example. > I have noticed that the Tubbees, for example, > seem to be related. Then at some point they used that > last part of their name as a surname, i.e. Tubbee. So > I was wondering if the same thing was going on with > John Harper. That is, that they were using Hopiah as a > surname for a while and then had to give it up for > some reason and started using Harper. I also wanted to > know if all of the Hopiahs could be related, as it > appears with the Tubbees, and if I could use this as a > clue in my searches. > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Sincerely: > Richard Wilson > Imafo Hopiah > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes > http://autos.yahoo.com > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > > --0-1590421475-1027881713=:19392-- > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/chat.htm > >

Found Ten Hattensty Under Card # 3174 You might wont to go to www.google.com and type in Hattensty might be something new? hope this helps you get started again. Homa Ray Short -----Original Message----- From: Shellie [mailto:slane-hoffield@prodigy.net] Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 12:21 PM To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] hattensty surname I have spent a considerable amount of time working on our heritage, but am now stuck. On my family's Dawes Roll Card, I have a name for which I can get no more information on: Thomas Hattensty (father to Henson Hattensty) Miss. Choctaw. If you cant help me with the name, can you point me in the right direction, genealogically? How did Ifull-blood Choctaws ever get the name "Hattensty", which I have been told is German, but it could be an interpretation of a Native American name. ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to the list. Write to me, the listowner, at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com

Hi Dj, I saw that you are searching the names Jordan and Middleton, thought I would ask if you know anything about a Clark Middleton Jordan my 3rd great grandfather. He should have been married to a Mary Tabitha Hogg as some have or maybe a Mary Tabitha Williams. I think it is Williams and my grandfather said, he was 1/4 Choctaw thru his mothers line. They came from lower Alabama. They last county they were in was Covingtion in 1850 then moved to Texas. If you can help me with any of this, I would appreciate any information you might have. Please answer when you get a chance. Thanks, Phyllis Rancour ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

I have spent a considerable amount of time working on our heritage, but am now stuck. On my family's Dawes Roll Card, I have a name for which I can get no more information on: Thomas Hattensty (father to Henson Hattensty) Miss. Choctaw. If you cant help me with the name, can you point me in the right direction, genealogically? How did Ifull-blood Choctaws ever get the name "Hattensty", which I have been told is German, but it could be an interpretation of a Native American name.

--0-1590421475-1027881713=:19392 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Note: forwarded message attached. Halito All: The original question is attached. It is clearly a genealogical question. That the discussion needed to get into history, culture, etc. doesn't change the fact that it is being done to answer a genealogical question, which if asked on the other site would have been referred back to this site. It doesn't make sense to chase discussions all over the web, and who would do that anyway? It makes more sense that a discussion remain where it started. As I stated, this is the third time that I have been thwarted in pursuing lines of inquiry, and what I consider to be important questions about my ancestry were not pursued. As in this case, the discussion is dropped and the questions will not be answered. So what am I doing here? I am leaving this list to the purists who are watching to make certain that nothing occurs on this site but the sterile listing of surnames. Imafo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com --0-1590421475-1027881713=:19392 Content-Type: message/rfc822 X-Apparently-To: imafo2002@yahoo.com via -40.-120.-83.80; 13 Jul 2002 23:41:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Track: 1: 100 Return-Path: <choctaw-southeast-l-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from 207.40.200.41 (EHLO lists5.rootsweb.com) (207.40.200.41) by mta628.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2002 23:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from slist@localhost) by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.12.4/8.12.4) id g6E6bk4p031775; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 00:37:46 -0600 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 00:37:46 -0600 X-Original-Sender: imafo2002@yahoo.com Sun Jul 14 00:37:45 2002 Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 23:37:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Wilson <imafo2002@yahoo.com> Old-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Questions about the name Hopiah Resent-Message-ID: <KvYl8.A.wvH.5wRM9@lists5.rootsweb.com> To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/15013 X-Loop: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com Content-Length: 686 Halito All: My gggg-grandfather John Harper who was said to have been full blooded Choctaw was sometimes known as Johnnie Hopiah. Now I Know the name Hopiah means leader and that it would usually be associated with another name, such as Humma. As in Hopiah Humma (Red Leader) for example. I have noticed that the Tubbees, for example, seem to be related. Then at some point they used that last part of their name as a surname, i.e. Tubbee. So I was wondering if the same thing was going on with John Harper. That is, that they were using Hopiah as a surname for a while and then had to give it up for some reason and started using Harper. I also wanted to know if all of the Hopiahs could be related, as it appears with the Tubbees, and if I could use this as a clue in my searches. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely: Richard Wilson Imafo Hopiah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com --0-1590421475-1027881713=:19392--

Judy, you continue to provide a great service. Thank you, Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy" <jwhite@unitedwestern.net> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Surname Updates > First I want to thank all of you who have submitted queries to our pages, > they are great, just keep them coming. > Today I have gone through the tribes and made a listing on Surnames to > present by each tribe, so instead of having to read each posting you can > also search by Surname. > Please check it out http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/queries/index2.htm > Please add your Surnames, Brick Walls, or Ancestors. > Thanks > Judy > > Research tools made to be used: > Native American Genealogy - http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native > AccessGenealogy.com - http://www.accessgenealogy.com > Discover Genealogy WebRings - http://www.accessgenealogy.com/rings > My Home pages - http://www.itsjudy.com > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to the list. Write to me, the listowner, at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > >

Sorry everyone for contributing to non-genealogical discussions. I subscribe to both genealogical lists and the culture-centered one, and waited a while to comment on the language thread because I thought someone would eventually shift it to CHAHTA-L. Since it went for several days without anyone shifting over, I figured everyone was interested in the topic. If anyone wants to continue the thread, I'd be glad to participate on the other list (though I'm not sure how much more I can contribute, as I've said most of what I know on the subject). Again, my apologies to others. Chi pisa-l'achike. --Sean

well I guess I am on the wrong list too. you see my Choctaw ancestors didn't sing the rolls, so no one was writing about them , so I don't know how to go back behind the ones I have. I keep waiting for someone to bring up familiar name and then maybe I can go from there. well the only interesting thing to me in this wait has been these things that tied history/time/culture to a name. trying to learn a bit of the times lines and history issues, so that when I get a clue where to look I will have better idea of the history in order to search better. so can someone please point me in a direction where all of the discussion isn't just genealogy but a combination of all of it. I suppose if I get on the culture list they will tell you to stop talking about genealogy if it goes there? thank you. Richard Wilson wrote: > > Halito All: > > I am quite discouraged now. This is the third > time on this list when it seemed I was beginning to >

Halito and good morning Don't get discouraged . Like the old saying you can please some people all of the time.some people some of the time. but you can't please all of the people all the time. Don't worry if it go's to far Dusty will let you know when to cut back. There is always the CHATA-L list for discussion if it gets to much for this one. Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer

I am sending this to both lists because I don't know who is on which list and, therefore, don't know who might be interested in this item. On Thursday, July 25, Louis Owens, a well-known Choctaw/Cherokee author, died. He was 53. I just received the news this evening. He was not only a good writer but a really good person. He carried a lot of the stories and language and customs. He was an invaluable resource in this way. He also helped many students and mentored young writers. I see his death as a loss for all Choctaw people. George Ann _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

In a message dated 7/28/2002 12:18:01 AM Central Daylight Time, dustyc@microgear.net writes: > Richard: > > It's OK - We expect occasional slight deviation from genealogy when > addressing certain issues, as you point out - we just try to keep it to a > bare minimum to avoid complaints from die-hard genealogists. Bottom line - > if you don't hear from me, everything's OK!! > > Does not Choctaw geneaology involve, in many instances, learning Choctaw names which, in turn, involves a certain amount of understanding of Choctaw language which, in turn, once again, involves a certain amount of understanding of Choctaw culture? It seems to me that in many instances, at least where the Choctaw are concerned, it is nearly impossible to separate the geneaology from the language from the culture because the names of people written in the Choctaw language are apparently based on what those people did in their lives, such as the very repugnant practice/custom of bone-picking from which we get one source of the name Hopia which many signers of the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit had embedded in their names. The same goes for the name Tubbee. And I'm sure there are others. Knowing what these words mean, I think, can point some of us in the directions we need to go to find some of our ancestors. Knowing how the rudiments of the language works can also be of help, I think, in deciphering the names we encounter and linking those names to others who are related. Going throught the Sacramental Records of the Archdiocese of New Orleans, I've seen how French names would get corrupted when the Spanish took over and get corrupted once again when the Americans took over. Tracing names over not only time but also changes in governments and languages is an interesting experience to say the least. I'm certain it is even more frustrating at times when working with names, such as Choctaw, that is based on a language that was only recently written down. I think some of the discussions on the geneaology list regarding language and customs are just going to be unavoidable at times. John Craven New Orleans

In a message dated 7/27/2002 10:42:21 AM Central Daylight Time, dustyc@microgear.net writes: > > Tammy: > > Get in touch with Sharon Brown, 105 Gum St., Jonesboro, La. 71251. She is a > professional genealogist who did the research to get the Jena Band their > federal recognition. > > dusty > Dusty, I thought you said on the list a while back that the Jena band never got and will likely not get federal recognition because of leadership problems or something like that? John Craven New Orleans