OOPS!!!! The Coushatta in Kinder , La. is on HWY 165 between Lake Charles and Alexandria, La. about 190 miles west of New Orleans ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 2:48 PM Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] TULLOS > There is a Choctaw Band in Jena (LaSalle Parish), and the Coushatta are in > Kinder, La., down near New Orleans. > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Debbie Barrett <ladyhawk@risecom.net> > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:41 PM > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: TULLOS > > > > I'm sorry EB which group the Coushatta or Choctaw? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "E H Biber" <groundwtr@sprintmail.com> > > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:53 PM > > Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: TULLOS > > > > > > > This may be coincidental, but the town of Tullos is very near Jena, LA, > > where > > > the group with national recognition is located. > > > E.B. > > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > > DON'T FORGET OUR ARCHIVES. Got a question? Looking for ancestor's name? > > Check our archives at: > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the > list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to the list. Write to me, the listowner, at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > >

I have the case files for my ancestors, not an application. I can tell you that I ordered them from the National Archives - Southwest Region in Fort Worth, Texas. You can even telephone them at (817) 334-5525. However, since I knew the MCR # or Enrollment #, I sent an email to archives@ftworth.nara.gov, provided them with my ancestor's name, the tribe, and enrollment # and asked them to telephone me so that I could provide them with my credit card # to pay for the records. The records are $10 for 1-20 pages and an additional charge for each page over 20 pages. They telephoned me no later than the next business day, I provided them with my credit card info, and I had the records within a week. Thus far, I have purchased 9 files. Good luck! Lori

I am new to this site and do not know the prevailing philosophy of those responding. I wonder if my impression is accurate or if I am mistaken. It sounds to me that the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek is being blamed for the Choctaw being removed to Indian Territory in the West. Surely, people, you do not believe that our ancestors would have lived out their lives on their land, had the treaty not been signed. Let us pretend for a moment that our wise Chiefs would have mounted their horses and ridden away in indignation at the proposal for removal. No treaty. What would come next in this scenario? The government men would have returned to Washington and advised their President the land could not be purchased from the Indians and the Indians would have remained on their land, with their own Choctaw government, and their own way of life? Of course not. "Civilization" was coming. The US was spreading. A tribe of Indian people could not stop them, nor could have several tribes of Indian people stopped them. And what would have become of the Choctaw? In that day, they would have been extinguished by the white Army and their land would have still ended up in the hands of the government. And what about those Choctaw who would have survived? To remain in Mississippi they would have been forced to proclaim allegiance to the US and Mississippi and given up their Choctaw heritage. Would they have been able to adapt to the white man's laws, their way of life? It is my thinking that the Chiefs made a wise decision. They were able to negotiate for a few concessions. Let us not forget that through the negotiations those desiring to remain on their land, but give up their Choctaw allegiance were to be permitted to do so. Some choice! And, as history had proved, even in that day, the government could not be depended upon to live up to the stipulations put forth in the treaties. Why is it that today we criticize our Chiefs of yesteryear? It appears they did what they could for their people, considering that the government could scarcely be depended upon to do what they said. Life is ever-changing. We cannot stop that, just as we cannot stop our government from taking our homes today if they want them. Today, it is called eminent domain. Right or wrong, that is reality. You do really think that had Dancing Rabbit Creek Treaty not been signed life would have been better for our ancestors? Time marches on and civilization was marching on, whether we liked it or not. Had the treaty not been signed, the only thing that would be different today is there would be many less Choctaw than there are now, or perhaps we would just read in our history books about the tribe of Indians that were named Choctaw, but are no more because they stood tall against the government until the last one of them was killed as they attempted to prevent the government from taking their land? And how much would we know about that brave, but disillusioned, nation of people? "Civilization," my brothers and sisters, was on the move. Just as we in America now endeavor to "civilize" the primitive countries who today are looked upon somewhat as the Choctaws were in the years of our great ancestors. Indeeunme

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/4gC.2ACE/771.1 Message Board Post: I found a book called The Poineer Families in Lafayette Co. MS at my local Genealogical Library. You may be able to find more that way........

Dusty: Thanks for sharing the titles of these books. I will make a point of reading them as I'm sure they will provide great insight. As for the letter, my grandmother was 5-years old when her father filed enrollment in 1901. Some of her siblings, who were not born yet, were not listed in Bannister Allen's case file. Therefore, something had to happen after the 1902 rejection for them to have received the letter. I assume, but do not know for certain, exactly when the letter was received and from where. My grandmother died in Chicago in 1974. One of her nieces is still alive. She knows that her mother, who had not yet been born in 1901, had received one of the letters I'm referring to. I hope you can understand my hesitation and my need to know. Again, thanks for the titles. Lori

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Burch, Donaho, Watson, Pringle Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4gC.2ACE/963 Message Board Post: I have found the enrollment numbers of several of my Donaho family members and would like to obtain copies of the applications under which they were granted. Can anybody look these up or tell me how to go about getting the info? Please reply via e-mail....it works best on these West Texas phones.

Dusty are they closing the lists? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 3:10 PM Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] From List Admin: BOUNCES > I received 37 bounces on these addresses today. I'm going to have to > unsubscribe them, as something is apparently wrong at the ISP level: > > . > > nightwalkier@hotmail.msn.com > A_Vivian@hotmail.msn.com > angelync@hotmail.msn.com > anastasha7@hotmail.msn.com > nelld5@hotmail.msn.com > Hanan45@hotmail.msn.com > > dusty > List Admin. > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > DON'T FORGET OUR ARCHIVES. Got a question? Looking for ancestor's name? Check our archives at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST > >

I received 37 bounces on these addresses today. I'm going to have to unsubscribe them, as something is apparently wrong at the ISP level: . nightwalkier@hotmail.msn.com A_Vivian@hotmail.msn.com angelync@hotmail.msn.com anastasha7@hotmail.msn.com nelld5@hotmail.msn.com Hanan45@hotmail.msn.com dusty List Admin.

The DRC Treaty is on-line in several places. Just type "Dancing Rabbit Creek" into your search engine. I have a copy if you need a lookup. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: <JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 1:33 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Dancing Rabbit Treaty > In a message dated 8/7/2002 6:10:13 PM Central Daylight Time, > groundwtr@sprintmail.com writes: > > > > > > Where can we find a list of the signers of the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit > > Creek?

There is a Choctaw Band in Jena (LaSalle Parish), and the Coushatta are in Kinder, La., down near New Orleans. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Debbie Barrett <ladyhawk@risecom.net> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: TULLOS > I'm sorry EB which group the Coushatta or Choctaw? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "E H Biber" <groundwtr@sprintmail.com> > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:53 PM > Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: TULLOS > > > > This may be coincidental, but the town of Tullos is very near Jena, LA, > where > > the group with national recognition is located. > > E.B. > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > DON'T FORGET OUR ARCHIVES. Got a question? Looking for ancestor's name? > Check our archives at: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Tullos Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/4gC.2ACE/961.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Ok, Thank you Mary. I wasn't sure where Jena was located. I vaguely remember where Monroe is. It's been a long time since I have visited the area. I am trying to find more information on my grandmother Sadie-Tullos-Rigdon's father, Richard Tullos. I haven't found any information on him whatsoever. It's like nothing exists on them. Maybe I am just too new to this and don't know the ins and outs on how to find things? Well, Thanks again for your help! Connie Dove

Kitty: Amen! You are absolutely correct. I have my ancestors and other kinsmen's case files. When I read the transcribed testimony, I immediately knew that they would be rejected as Mississippi Choctaws because of the 1830 treaty (Article 14). It is shameful they our ancestors were not accepted because of negligence and stupidity. It really angers me. Although my ancestors were rejected and I know that they were Choctaw, I still intend to get involved with the Native American Center in Chicago, which is close to me. I want to learn the language and culture. I understand that there may be a Choctaw group there. Bless you for sharing this information. Lori

Hi, everyone, I think it is important to remind everyone from time to time that the reason that nearly all of the applicants for recognition as Mississippi Choctaws (around 1900) were rejected was that they could not prove compliance with Article 14 of the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek. This article stipulated that all Choctaws who chose to remain in Mississippi rather than removing to Oklahoma should sign up with the federal agent within a specified period of time. The agent would then allot them a portion of land in Mississippi before it was opened to purchase by white settlers and speculators. To make a very long and ugly story short, the agent--Colonel Ward--was both incompetent and hostile to the Choctaws, with the result that very few of these people actually registered, even though thousands tried to do so. Sixty years later, their descendants were denied recognition because they could not prove they had registered or attempted to do so, mostly because the government had no reliable records! Not exactly fair. And it didn't address the question of whether they actually were Choctaw. Kitty

HI kitty isn't that kinda what happened in OK too. I mean my relatives there didn't sign for anything, they had land why get more. it wasn't a listing for who was "indian" it was a land give away right? if they had land why get more, especially someplace where you didn't live near and it would seem to me that the fee land was probably the worst land in way far out places not near towns, and we all know the natives were a social people as a rule. so that whole idea would have gone over very big at all <BG> renee GARBERCNS@aol.com wrote: > > Hi, everyone, > I think it is important to remind everyone from time to time that the > reason that nearly all of the applicants for recognition as Mississippi > Choctaws (around 1900) were rejected was that they could not prove compliance > with Article 14 of the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek. This article > stipulated that all Choctaws who chose to remain in Mississippi rather than > removing to Oklahoma should sign up with the federal agent within a specified > period of time. The agent would then allot them a portion of land in > Mississippi before it was opened to purchase by white settlers and > speculators. To make a very long and ugly story short, the agent--Colonel > Ward--was both incompetent and hostile to the Choctaws, with the result that > very few of these people actually registered, even though thousands tried to > do so. Sixty years later, their descendants were denied recognition because > they could not prove they had registered or attempted to do so, mostly > because the government had no reliable records! Not exactly fair. And it > didn't address the question of whether they actually were Choctaw. > > Kitty > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHAHTA-L list discussions on history, culture, language. Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes, nothing in the subject line, turn off signatures. > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures.......

Thanks, John. Since you are in New Orleans, you are just hours away from Shubuta, MS. and Texas is next to Louisiana. Lori

Thanks, John!

Andrew: My Minnie Allen was born November 25, 1883 in Shubuta, MS. She had a daughter, Annie Mae Allen, born November 5, 1911 in Shubuta. Annie married and had 7 children. She is still living and continues to reside in Shubuta, MS. Minnie married James Wicks. She died on August 1, 1974 in Shubuta and was buried in Cokes Chapel Cemetery. Lori

Martha: It was years ago when I sent for the copy of my grandfather's app for his ss card. It did have his father's full name and his mother full maiden name on it. I'll look it up and see which form it is and I know it was under $25.00 for it. Carol

Since there was no Mississippi Band until the 1940's they couldn't have issued a letter about the removals to Oklahoma in the previous century. The US government issued notifications and sent agents into Choctaw territory to inform everyone (they claimed), but the removals process with the Choctaws in Miss/Ala was so full of skullduggery and "selective" registration, that books have been written about it. i suggest you read "The Removal of the Choctaw Indians" by Arthur DeRosier, Jr. and Angi Debo's "And Still the Waters Run - The Betrayal of the Five Civilized Tribes". These books can give you more detail about what happened. Another good read is "The Rise and Fall of the Choctaw Republic" by Debo. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: <Lori0602h@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Surnames Being Researched > Dusty: > > Perhaps I used the term "Mississippi Choctaws" loosely. However, this is the > way it was stated in the case files. > > By chance, do you know if the Mississippi Band issued a letter to possible > members (for lack of a better word) inviting them to relocate to Oklahoma or > remain in Mississippi? This letter thing has had me puzzled for years. Can > you give me some direction on this? > > Thanks, > Lori > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.... > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes and spelled correctly. > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

This is information a lot of folks might like to know, so I'll write it out. I paid $27.00 for the original application, what looks to be about a half-page form. It contains the following information: At the top right, my grandfather's SSN# is stamped 1. Employee's Name: First, Middle, Last 2. Address: (my grandfather left this blank) 3. Post Office: City and State 4. Business Name of Present Employer: (mine was unreadable - the forms are typed, but the answers are handwritten) 5. Business Address of Present Employer: (mine was blank) 6. Age 7. Date of Birth: Month - Day - Year 8. Place of Birth 9. Father's Name, Regardless of Whether Living or Dead 10. Mother's Name, Regardless of Whether Living or Dead 11. Sex 12. Color: White - Negro - Other 13. Give date you became an employee (if you began employment after Nov. 24, 1936) 14. Have you filled out a card like this before? (If answer is 'yes' enter place and date of original filing and reasons for filing again) 15. Date Signed 16. Employee's Signature as Usuall Written - DO NOT PRINT) Donna "marthjeanp" <marthjeanp@msn.com> wrote: >Hello, > >I am seeking the parents of my relative as well.  Did you get the copy of >the original SS-5application or the abbreviated NUMIDENT printout?  Do you >know if both of these would have the parents names?  How much did you pay? >Please let me hear from you at marthjeanp@msnc.com > >Martha Jean Birdsong __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/