George Ann: Can you suggest a way that I can research this for the Choctaws? Thanks, Lori

George Ann: What form of "regular invitations" did the Oklahoma Choctaw send to their Mississippi relatives to join them? I'm especially interested in this as my ggg grnadmother had children and siblings that may have relocated to Oklahoma. Unfortunately, I don't know their names but it is worth the research to me. Lori

John: Thank you for sharing this information with us. I hope and pray with you that the Confederate War Museum will prevail as we need to know and have access to information on our history. Lori

You know I now know why my mother would never talk about her grandmother being Indian,because she wasn't suppose to be married to a white man, they changed that law in 1920 my mother was 1 year old so they had kept that secret for years! ----- Original Message ----- From: <GARBERCNS@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 11:19 AM Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: Choctaws in MS > I don't think anyone is contending that the Choctaws had much choice about > signing the treaty. Indians in many states in the southeast had already been > legally deprived of their civil rights by the individual states--Alabama, > Georgia, etc. For example, an Indian could not testify in court against a > white person; hence, white folks could steal his property, assault him, etc., > at will. So there wasn't really much choice. And it should be remembered > that many Choctaws were not in Mississippi but in Alabama along the Tombigbee > River. > > The point is that the federal government made treaties with the Indians that > were not properly administered by individuals within the states and > localities because of incompetence and greed. It is at this point that we > find first asserted in a legal context the principle of "states' rights" with > regard to the supposed right of the state to disregard federal treaties and > decisions by federal courts. > > The Choctaws who remained in Mississippi (and elsewhere) were likely mostly > of mixed blood or married to whites. The treaty specified that they could > become citizens and provided land for them that was to be allocated to them > before the cession was generally available for settlement by the whites. > These people stayed where they were based on these assurances. However, the > federal government failed to live up to its promises. And there was > effectively no recourse for these people. > > Kitty > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to the list. Write to me, the listowner, at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com >

I don't think anyone is contending that the Choctaws had much choice about signing the treaty. Indians in many states in the southeast had already been legally deprived of their civil rights by the individual states--Alabama, Georgia, etc. For example, an Indian could not testify in court against a white person; hence, white folks could steal his property, assault him, etc., at will. So there wasn't really much choice. And it should be remembered that many Choctaws were not in Mississippi but in Alabama along the Tombigbee River. The point is that the federal government made treaties with the Indians that were not properly administered by individuals within the states and localities because of incompetence and greed. It is at this point that we find first asserted in a legal context the principle of "states' rights" with regard to the supposed right of the state to disregard federal treaties and decisions by federal courts. The Choctaws who remained in Mississippi (and elsewhere) were likely mostly of mixed blood or married to whites. The treaty specified that they could become citizens and provided land for them that was to be allocated to them before the cession was generally available for settlement by the whites. These people stayed where they were based on these assurances. However, the federal government failed to live up to its promises. And there was effectively no recourse for these people. Kitty

Thanks so much for the information.... ----- Original Message ----- From: <JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 12:43 AM Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Perkins, Maricles,Johnson's Sweat's and Paul's > Hello Evelyn, > > I found the following info in Goss' book: > > Perkins --- *Perkins, Davis, *206 > *Perkins, Mrs. Eley, *206 > *Perkins, Jane, *234 > *Perkins, Mary, *246 > > Mericles -- no names or similar names > > Johnson -- 7 names > > Johnston -- Colonel, -- 1 name > > Sweats -- no nmaes or similar names > > Pauls -- no names or similar names > > John Craven > New Orleans > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > >

Indeeunme, I think most of us would agree with you that, if the Chiefs had not signed at Dancing Rabbit Creek (and the preceding treaty sites, for that matter), our ancestors may indeed have been decimated by direct attack. Rather than "blaming" the treaty(s) and those who signed them, I expect that most of the negative sentiment to which you are responding is probably more directed toward the expansionist of the European colonialists, and subsequently the U.S. government. While there are certainly still some folks who would have sided with the various militant rebellions, such as Osceola in the southeast, I think most indigenous descendants today are glad that as many of us survived as did. That doesn't change the fact however, that the European and subsequent U.S. policies about how to treat our indigenous ancestors could have been a lot less imperial and a lot more respectful. I certainly don't mean to speak for everyone else but, from my membership on this list and other indigenous communities, I am fairly secure in saying that most folks know better than to blame the treaties themselves. If not, I'm sure I'll get flamed along with you by those who vehemently disagree with one or both of us. Chi-pisa-l'achike. --Sean

Why would all of these treasure be on an auction block, can they be donated to another Confederate Museum? ----- Original Message ----- From: <JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 3:17 AM Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] The Forced Closure of The Confederate War Museum in New Orleans > > Hello List Members, > > The Confederate War Museum in New Orleans is one of the largest in > existence and has invaluable records on the people who served in the War > Between The States. > > It has invaluable lists of names of people who served on both sides of > the conflict which are available to all who are doing research on their > family history. I have found a lot of good info on my family there. > > Yet, it's very existence is totally and politcally incorrect in many > circles who wish people to be ignorant of their past. > > Among the many memorabilia are rare photos of blacks who fought for > the South as Free men and lists of names of Indians who fought for the South > during the war even though many Indians as we are well aware were enslaved. > > There is also a crown of thorns which was personally crafted by a > pope, I think it was Pius IX or Pius X, and sent to Jefferson Davis after the > war, not in support of slavery, mind you, because the popes had consistently > written against slavery since the early 1400's, but in appreciation of things > which Jefferson Davis had done for some of the religious nuns who worked in > the old South as I remember it from the display. There are many things like > that that are simply priceless but which some find politically incorrect in > our day and age and in need of censorship from the masses who might learn > something that they never knew before. > > The collection will fetch a great fortune on the auction block. > > It has been displayed at the same site since the early 1930's through > the genorsity of a man who donated the building it is in to the Museum. > > A couple of years ago, the Ogden Museum of Southern Art in cahoots > with the University of New Orleans, surreptitiously produced a previously > unknown title to the building and has since tried to close the Museum because > they want the building and they don't want the museum next to their art. > > The Museum has fought this theft of their property ever since by > producing the original bequeathment of the building to them by its original > owner. > > But, in a confirmation of what Indeeunm had to say in an email to the > Choctaw-Southeast list on August 8, a local judge ruled that the Ogden Museum > had title to the building and can close the Museum which they did. The > Confederat Museum, of course, is appealing this appalling act of judicial > tyranny and political correctness and I pray that they prevail. > > I have no stock in the Confederate Museum. I only know what it has in > it and that it is priceless and that the people who run it are wonderful > people who work hard to maintain the collection and help all who are > interested in learning more about this part of American history. > > What the local judge, C. Hunter King, did in cahoots with his > accomplices in the Ogden Museum of Southern Art and the University of New > Orleans is totalitarianism. It is PC at its ultimate worst. > > Oh a solution for the Confederate Museum has been suddenly offered to > the Museum, that it give all of its priceless collection to the Louisiana > State Museum for storage in an hermetically sealed and dust free room where > almost no one will ever see it again. Maybe one or two items from its > priceless collection will be displayed at the Cabildo or elswhere but the > rest will be lost to history and the public's consciousness. > > Right across the street from the Confederate War Museum is the D-Day > Museum. At some point in time the Ogden politburo can decide that any museum > which recounts our nation's struggle to win WWII is not in keeping with their > vision of who should be in the neighborhood and engineer with the help of a > judicial accomplice the closure of the D-Day Museum where my cousin' jacket > is on display from his mission with Doolittle over Tokyo. > > In the email about Mississippi Choctaws, Indeeunme said much that > was very true about what the Chiefs of the Choctaw Nation had to face with > the coming of the American civilization when they signed the Treaty of > Dancing Rabbit Creek. > > I think that it is noteworthy that the Choctaw and the French and the > Spanish more or less managed to live in close proximity to each other without > the Choctaw losing everything but with the coming of the American nation, > they were forced to relocate much as the Confederate War Museum is being > treated in a blatant act of theft and censorship which is true goal of the > Ogden/University of New Orleans politburo. > > If the memorabilia of the War Museum is locked away that censors its > info from ordinary people doesn't it? And it can be done to the Confederate > War Museum it can be done with anything that it deemed politically incorrect > by people like those who run the Ogden Museum. What is to stop them from > doing something similar to the Choctaws if the Choctaw erected a museum on > land they wanted? Nothing. > Not even a treaty. > > As I recall the Indian memorabilia at the Confederate War Museum > provides an invaluable history lesson for all of our peoples and locking > these Indian artifacts away also denies Indians their rights as well to know > their history during this time of great suffering for our nation? > > This is a crime being perpertrated on people by the Ogden Museum and > the University of New Orleans for no good reason. > > I hope and pray that it will not prevail. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHAHTA-L list discussions on history, culture, language. Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes, nothing in the subject line, turn off signatures. > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

I do not know if these are any of your Wheat's or not, but there is a graveyard located in Montpelier, St Helena Parish, Louisiana way out in the wood that have the following buried there: Margina G L Wheat 1796 - 1878 William Whaeat 03/04/1801 - 01/05/1867 Martha Wheat Houeye 1802 -1826 John Houeye 1784 - 1861 Military Marker Corp LA Militia War of 1812 John Houeye, Jr 1817 - 1874 John Houeye III 1852 -1872 Marion W Houeye 1845 - 1877 Hillary Kemp Houeye 1855 - 1877 George E Fletcher Died 1869 Mary Jones Wheat no dates Hezekial Wheat, Sr. 1750 - 1833 Contential Line Revolutionary War If you go to the Roots Web site and go to St Helena Parish, Louisiana site there is something that has been posted about this family. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie Matte" <matteja@bellsouth.net> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Choctaw Wheats > Solomon Wheat was in Mississippi Territory by 1806. His land was located > near present-day Alabama-Mississippi stateline-- Township 5, Range 1 West, > St. Stephens Meridian. He may have had a Choctaw family --oral history, no > written proof. Jackie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <anastasha7@msn.com> > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:19 PM > Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Choctaw Wheats > > > > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > > > Surnames: Wheat, Baggs, Rainey, Longstreet > > Classification: Query > > > > Message Board URL: > > > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/4gC.2ACE/962 > > > > Message Board Post: > > > > My Great Grandfather, Newton Alexander Wheat, was born in Choctaw Nation > Indian Territory on 4-13-1875. He married Mary Ellen Baggs (b. 1-22-1875) on > 12-25-1892. Does anyone have any information about the Wheat family line? > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the > list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

John this is sad is there and email address we can start blasting to, and some Government official we might cry off to?I think it should be exposed publicly for what it is the public would side and maybe they would back down its just who you get siding with you. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Lenabrat1@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 5:00 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] The Forced Closure of The Confederate War Museum in New Orle... > Johnie, > I will pray to that it will not prevail. wow that is so sad to hear what is > happening to the museum. I thought they were done with messing with us long > ago. I guess not. I will pray that is all I can do from here. > Lena > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHAHTA-L list discussions on history, culture, language. Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes, nothing in the subject line, turn off signatures. > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Johnie, I will pray to that it will not prevail. wow that is so sad to hear what is happening to the museum. I thought they were done with messing with us long ago. I guess not. I will pray that is all I can do from here. Lena

Hello List Members, The Confederate War Museum in New Orleans is one of the largest in existence and has invaluable records on the people who served in the War Between The States. It has invaluable lists of names of people who served on both sides of the conflict which are available to all who are doing research on their family history. I have found a lot of good info on my family there. Yet, it's very existence is totally and politcally incorrect in many circles who wish people to be ignorant of their past. Among the many memorabilia are rare photos of blacks who fought for the South as Free men and lists of names of Indians who fought for the South during the war even though many Indians as we are well aware were enslaved. There is also a crown of thorns which was personally crafted by a pope, I think it was Pius IX or Pius X, and sent to Jefferson Davis after the war, not in support of slavery, mind you, because the popes had consistently written against slavery since the early 1400's, but in appreciation of things which Jefferson Davis had done for some of the religious nuns who worked in the old South as I remember it from the display. There are many things like that that are simply priceless but which some find politically incorrect in our day and age and in need of censorship from the masses who might learn something that they never knew before. The collection will fetch a great fortune on the auction block. It has been displayed at the same site since the early 1930's through the genorsity of a man who donated the building it is in to the Museum. A couple of years ago, the Ogden Museum of Southern Art in cahoots with the University of New Orleans, surreptitiously produced a previously unknown title to the building and has since tried to close the Museum because they want the building and they don't want the museum next to their art. The Museum has fought this theft of their property ever since by producing the original bequeathment of the building to them by its original owner. But, in a confirmation of what Indeeunm had to say in an email to the Choctaw-Southeast list on August 8, a local judge ruled that the Ogden Museum had title to the building and can close the Museum which they did. The Confederat Museum, of course, is appealing this appalling act of judicial tyranny and political correctness and I pray that they prevail. I have no stock in the Confederate Museum. I only know what it has in it and that it is priceless and that the people who run it are wonderful people who work hard to maintain the collection and help all who are interested in learning more about this part of American history. What the local judge, C. Hunter King, did in cahoots with his accomplices in the Ogden Museum of Southern Art and the University of New Orleans is totalitarianism. It is PC at its ultimate worst. Oh a solution for the Confederate Museum has been suddenly offered to the Museum, that it give all of its priceless collection to the Louisiana State Museum for storage in an hermetically sealed and dust free room where almost no one will ever see it again. Maybe one or two items from its priceless collection will be displayed at the Cabildo or elswhere but the rest will be lost to history and the public's consciousness. Right across the street from the Confederate War Museum is the D-Day Museum. At some point in time the Ogden politburo can decide that any museum which recounts our nation's struggle to win WWII is not in keeping with their vision of who should be in the neighborhood and engineer with the help of a judicial accomplice the closure of the D-Day Museum where my cousin' jacket is on display from his mission with Doolittle over Tokyo. In the email about Mississippi Choctaws, Indeeunme said much that was very true about what the Chiefs of the Choctaw Nation had to face with the coming of the American civilization when they signed the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek. I think that it is noteworthy that the Choctaw and the French and the Spanish more or less managed to live in close proximity to each other without the Choctaw losing everything but with the coming of the American nation, they were forced to relocate much as the Confederate War Museum is being treated in a blatant act of theft and censorship which is true goal of the Ogden/University of New Orleans politburo. If the memorabilia of the War Museum is locked away that censors its info from ordinary people doesn't it? And it can be done to the Confederate War Museum it can be done with anything that it deemed politically incorrect by people like those who run the Ogden Museum. What is to stop them from doing something similar to the Choctaws if the Choctaw erected a museum on land they wanted? Nothing. Not even a treaty. As I recall the Indian memorabilia at the Confederate War Museum provides an invaluable history lesson for all of our peoples and locking these Indian artifacts away also denies Indians their rights as well to know their history during this time of great suffering for our nation? This is a crime being perpertrated on people by the Ogden Museum and the University of New Orleans for no good reason. I hope and pray that it will not prevail. John Craven New Orleans

Hello everyone, there were no Ivey/Ivy's listed in Goss's book. John Craven New Orleans

Hello EB, I came across the following: *Mosley, Lafayette, 226, *Mosley, Mrs. Mary, 204 *Mosley, Samuel, *226, *286 Parnell -- no names or similar names Parish -- none but there was the following: Parres, Antony, 18 Parsh ok chiah, 457 Pars Ham Mubbee, 742 John Craven New Orleans

Hello Mary, I came across the following info in Goss' book: Russell --- none but there's a Rousseau, page 432 Perkins --- I listed the Perkins I found in an email I sent to early tonight to the list. Smith ---- four names Smith, 223, 605 *Smith, Choate, *118 Smith, John, 142 *Smith, Melly, *118 John Craven New Orleans

Hello Evelyn, I found the following info in Goss' book: Perkins --- *Perkins, Davis, *206 *Perkins, Mrs. Eley, *206 *Perkins, Jane, *234 *Perkins, Mary, *246 Mericles -- no names or similar names Johnson -- 7 names Johnston -- Colonel, -- 1 name Sweats -- no nmaes or similar names Pauls -- no names or similar names John Craven New Orleans

In a message dated 8/8/2002 11:11:59 AM Central Daylight Time, GARBERCNS@aol.com writes: > CHOCTAW-SE] MS Choctaws > Date:8/8/2002 11:11:59 AM Central Daylight Time > From: GARBERCNS@aol.com > Reply-to: <A HREF="mailto:CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com">CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com</A> > To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > Hi, everyone, > I think it is important to remind everyone from time to time that the > reason that nearly all of the applicants for recognition as Mississippi > Choctaws (around 1900) were rejected was that they could not prove > compliance > with Article 14 of the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek. This article > stipulated that all Choctaws who chose to remain in Mississippi rather than > removing to Oklahoma should sign up with the federal agent within a > specified > period of time. The agent would then allot them a portion of land in > Mississippi before it was opened to purchase by white settlers and > speculators. To make a very long and ugly story short, the agent--Colonel > Ward--was both incompetent and hostile to the Choctaws, with the result > that > very few of these people actually registered, even though thousands tried > to > do so. Sixty years later, their descendants were denied recognition because > they could not prove they had registered or attempted to do so, mostly > because the government had no reliable records! Not exactly fair. And it > didn't address the question of whether they actually were Choctaw. > > Kitty > Thanks for posting this info, Kitty. I think that will be of help to all of us researching the past. John Craven New Orleans

In a message dated 8/8/2002 10:35:03 AM Central Daylight Time, Lori0602h@aol.com writes: > > Thanks, John. Since you are in New Orleans, you are just hours away from > Shubuta, MS. and Texas is next to Louisiana. > > Lori > I went to Houston last year the weekend that that mother killed her children. I went to the wedding of my cousin on my Craven side of the family. We had a wonderful time but it is a whole other country. Thanks, John Craven New Orleans

my goodness thank you soooo much. peggy

thank you- i appreciate your help, as you have time. i know my schedule is very hectic also. but thanks!! peggy