List Members: If there is not a copy of the book at your local library, you can request it through interlibrary loan. Good luck! Lori

Halito John: This is so sad and you speak the truth. It reminds me of how I've gone to various places to research. I find information that is so historic and delightful. When I return, the records have been lost and never found again. Ufortunately, it happens more often to non-whites. It makes me wonder if there is a concerted effort to keep us from learning and proving our ancestry. Lori

Halito John. I totally agree. I'm so glad to have met so many wonderful people. I'm recuperating from cancer and two broken hips and am thankful to be alive. Having such wonderful contacts have made life worth living. Lori

Halito Elkdreamer: Yes, I, too, have a smile on my face each time I log on to get my email. I've been so delighted with all of the help, ideas of direction, and good wishes. I hope that as I learn more about my ancestors and get more involved that I can be of help to others. After receiving the enrollment case files for my ancestors and finding that they were rejected, it does not deter me from claiming my ancestry and heritage. I plan to become a member of the American Indian Center in Chicago. I so very much want to learn the language and culture and pass it on to other members of my family, especially the younger generation. I want them to know that no matter what amount of Choctaw blood they may have, they are still Choctaw and to be extremely proud of that fact. I'm sure you can see that I, too, am proud to be Choctaw. Lori

Halito Lori, this is a great group of people and they are always willing to help if they can. I am also glad to be a member of this list. Walk in beauty, peace and love, Little Deer

"John Turnbull" can someone give me a quick run down on John turnbull, was his name john bull at one time? I have a John Bull in my collins saponi/blackfoot family who he or his son's changed their name to Turnbull after a Murder in IT, over land or something like that . could this be the same man?

Has anyone contacted whichever of Louisiana's U.S. Senators is NOT running for office this year? The one who is not MIGHT be willing to 'buck' the politically-correct crowd. Where do the New Orlean's mayor and the U.S. Congressman for the New Orleans district stand? 'Course I don't recall reading of anyone complaining when a New Orlean's school changed its name because George Washington owned slaves. Nor was there much of a public out-cry here in Oklahoma when the Confederate flag was removed from the area where other flags representing the various 'bodies' that had once ruled this territory/state were and are flying. Angelyn ------ Original Message ----- From: JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2002 3:19am To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Legalized Theft of Priceless Artifacts Hello Choctaw-Southeast-List Members, I thought you may be interested in some excerpts from The Times-Picayune article by Bruce Eggler, dated 8/8/2002, on the forced closing of the Confederate War Museum in New Orleans, a museum which has operated in the same spot for about the last 75 years in a building it was given by one of Tulane University's biggest benefactors to display the artifacts and history of the Civil War and the Confederacy. To those of you who have studied how many Choctaw lost their homes in Mississippi after the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek some of this might sound painfully and all too familiar. ------------- Excerpts from: "Civil War Artifacts Offered New Home" by Bruce Eggler, The Times-Picayune, New Orleans, 8/8/2002 "If the Confederate Museum is forced to vacate its longtime home on Camp St., the Louisiana State Museum is ready to take over the task of housing and displaying the collection of Civil War artifacts, the director of the state museum said Wednesday."......... "'The loss or damage of these artifacts would be unconscionable,' said Sefcik, director of a museum system that includes the Cabildo, the Presbytere, the Old U.S. Mint, a histroy museum under construction near the Capitol in Baton Rouge and several other buildings in New Orleans and around the state."........ "Judge C. Hunter King said the University of New Orleans" [UNO] "is the legal owner of the site and therefore has the right to evict the Confederate Museum and its collection to make way for the new Ogden Museum of Southern Art. "The Ogden Museum is renovating a historic building on the upriver side of the Confederate Museum and building a new five-story structure on the downriver side. Having control of the building at 929 Camp" [The Confederate Museum] "would give UNO direct access between the two buildings. "The Confederate Museum plans to appeal King's ruling to the state 4th Circuit Court of Appeal, and museum offiicials have vowed they will never leave voluntarily. "Elizabeth Williams, president of the UNO Foundation, has indicated the University will not try to evict the museum and its collection immediately. "Sefcik said he is not trying to take control of the Confederate Museum's collection, which is one of the nation's largest assemblages of Civil War artifacts and likely would fetch millions of dollars if sold at auction. "'The Louisiana State Museum takes no position in the matter between the Confederate Museum and the Ogden Museum of Southern Art,' he said. 'We are concerned about the future of the magnificent collections housed in Confederate Memorial Hall.' "UNO officials have said they might agree to turn the building at 929 Cammp into a Civil War wing of the Ogden Museum and display a small part of its collection but that most of the objects would have to be removed. "Sefcik said the state museum 'is prepared to accept the collections currently at the Confederate Museum, store them properly in as secure, temperature- and humidity-controlled environment, conserve those requiring such attention as funds permit, and ultimately display them in state museum facilities both in New Orleans and elsewhere.' "The board of Memorial Hall Museum would have to agree to turn over ownership and management of its collection to the state, Sefcik said. 'We don't have a home for the Confederate Museum, simply for the objects in the collection,' he said. "Many of the items could be displayed on the second floor of the Mint, 400 Esplanade, in space now used for storage, Sefcik said. The items now stored there would be transferred to a building at 1000 Chartres St. that the museum recently renovated for use as a state-of-the-art warehouse for artifacts. "Other Confederate Museum artifacts could be displayed at the Cabildo, which has exhibits on Louisiana history from colonization through Reconstruction, and at the Baton Rouge Museum, which will cover the state's entire history. "The 35,000-square-foot Baton Rouge museum will offer as much exhbit space s the Cabildo, Presbytere and Mint combined....... "The state museum also is working on developing materials for a museum, probably in New Orleans, dealing with the history of the civil rights movement in the state. A site has not been chosen...." *********** "Bruce Eggler can be reached at beggler@timespicayune.com..." ------------------------ This is the end of the article. As you can see the Lousiana State Museum has a home for the Confederate Museum's artifacts, a huge home, a home that has a huge need for priceless artifacts, just so long as the Board of Directors of the Confederate Museum relinquishes ownership of these priceless artifacts and doesn't come with them, and the Louisiana State Museum also has need of a location for its planned museum on the civil rights movement in the state and since the Confederate Museum will more than likely be removed from its current location in any event, well what better place than where the Confederate Museum is right now, since it is highly unlikely that the Board of Directors would allow its vast collection to be turned over to the Ogden Museum and made into a small Civil War Wing. What is not seen is that UNO [the University of New Orleans] is part and parcel of the Louisiana State University system and is controlled by the state of Louisiana which also controls the Louisiana State Museum system. Over the years there have been repeated propaganda campaigns against the Civil War Museum which have indoctrinated many people into believing that the Civil War Museum is a glorification of the Old South and Slavery and the Confederacy and ought to be closed down. Of course if all of these priceless artifacts are on display at an official museum of the State of Louisiana than that would be different and wouldn't be a glorification of the old South and the Confederacy. It would just be a display of history even though that is exactly what it is now. It just isn't controlled by the state or the Ogden Museum or someone else other than the people who have displayed it for the last 75 years in a building which they were bequeathed by a Jewish philanthropist who also funded, if memory serves me correctly, the creation of the Howard Tilton Library at Tulane University and who wished there to be a place to house and display the artifacts of the Civil War. But since, there are people with the UNO Foundation who can literally produce out of thin air a title to that same building, a title that no one had ever seen during the last 75 years, then it's not all that difficult to get a judge to legally turn control of the museum over to the state, is it? I hope you all will take good note of just how easy it is for many well-connected and well-financed foundations and academics and government-run boards and commissions to take control of something they want regardless of who owns it. And if a treaty were involved well that would be just a minor detail for these legalized thieves. John Craven New Orleans ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== To Unsubscribe: Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures.......

Hello List Members, I just discovered a book at the library today which I think may be of great help to anyone who comes to New Orleans to do research. It is called "Index to the Archives of Spanish West Florida, 1782 - 1810" by Stanley Clisby Arthur (Polyanthos, New Orleans, 1975). In the 1930's, I believe as part of the WPA, a project was undertaken to translate and transcribe into English the papers of the Spanish Government of West Flordia, District of Baton Rouge. This project was completed in 1937 and produced nineteen volumes of translations and transcriptions, copies of which can be found at the Louisiana State Museum in New Orleans. Arthur's book indexes each of the nineteen volumes and includes references to the Choctaw, Chickasaw and other tribes. It also includes the names of people who have had an historical relationship with these tribes, including one of my ancestors, Simon Favre, and others who have cropped up on the list on occassion such as John Turnbull. It includes references to many interpreters and to the surveyor Vicente Sebastian Pintado. It covers a lot of transactions concerning slaves, Free Negroes, Free Mulatoes, and it covers a lot of land transactions and who were involved. It really looks like an invaluable source to anyone researching those times and West Florida. I do not know where it is available outside Louisiana but I imagine that some of the main libraries across the Gulf Coast would have a copy. John Craven New Orleans

Hello Choctaw-Southeast-List Members, I thought you may be interested in some excerpts from The Times-Picayune article by Bruce Eggler, dated 8/8/2002, on the forced closing of the Confederate War Museum in New Orleans, a museum which has operated in the same spot for about the last 75 years in a building it was given by one of Tulane University's biggest benefactors to display the artifacts and history of the Civil War and the Confederacy. To those of you who have studied how many Choctaw lost their homes in Mississippi after the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek some of this might sound painfully and all too familiar. ------------- Excerpts from: "Civil War Artifacts Offered New Home" by Bruce Eggler, The Times-Picayune, New Orleans, 8/8/2002 "If the Confederate Museum is forced to vacate its longtime home on Camp St., the Louisiana State Museum is ready to take over the task of housing and displaying the collection of Civil War artifacts, the director of the state museum said Wednesday."......... "'The loss or damage of these artifacts would be unconscionable,' said Sefcik, director of a museum system that includes the Cabildo, the Presbytere, the Old U.S. Mint, a histroy museum under construction near the Capitol in Baton Rouge and several other buildings in New Orleans and around the state."........ "Judge C. Hunter King said the University of New Orleans" [UNO] "is the legal owner of the site and therefore has the right to evict the Confederate Museum and its collection to make way for the new Ogden Museum of Southern Art. "The Ogden Museum is renovating a historic building on the upriver side of the Confederate Museum and building a new five-story structure on the downriver side. Having control of the building at 929 Camp" [The Confederate Museum] "would give UNO direct access between the two buildings. "The Confederate Museum plans to appeal King's ruling to the state 4th Circuit Court of Appeal, and museum offiicials have vowed they will never leave voluntarily. "Elizabeth Williams, president of the UNO Foundation, has indicated the University will not try to evict the museum and its collection immediately. "Sefcik said he is not trying to take control of the Confederate Museum's collection, which is one of the nation's largest assemblages of Civil War artifacts and likely would fetch millions of dollars if sold at auction. "'The Louisiana State Museum takes no position in the matter between the Confederate Museum and the Ogden Museum of Southern Art,' he said. 'We are concerned about the future of the magnificent collections housed in Confederate Memorial Hall.' "UNO officials have said they might agree to turn the building at 929 Cammp into a Civil War wing of the Ogden Museum and display a small part of its collection but that most of the objects would have to be removed. "Sefcik said the state museum 'is prepared to accept the collections currently at the Confederate Museum, store them properly in as secure, temperature- and humidity-controlled environment, conserve those requiring such attention as funds permit, and ultimately display them in state museum facilities both in New Orleans and elsewhere.' "The board of Memorial Hall Museum would have to agree to turn over ownership and management of its collection to the state, Sefcik said. 'We don't have a home for the Confederate Museum, simply for the objects in the collection,' he said. "Many of the items could be displayed on the second floor of the Mint, 400 Esplanade, in space now used for storage, Sefcik said. The items now stored there would be transferred to a building at 1000 Chartres St. that the museum recently renovated for use as a state-of-the-art warehouse for artifacts. "Other Confederate Museum artifacts could be displayed at the Cabildo, which has exhibits on Louisiana history from colonization through Reconstruction, and at the Baton Rouge Museum, which will cover the state's entire history. "The 35,000-square-foot Baton Rouge museum will offer as much exhbit space s the Cabildo, Presbytere and Mint combined....... "The state museum also is working on developing materials for a museum, probably in New Orleans, dealing with the history of the civil rights movement in the state. A site has not been chosen...." *********** "Bruce Eggler can be reached at beggler@timespicayune.com..." ------------------------ This is the end of the article. As you can see the Lousiana State Museum has a home for the Confederate Museum's artifacts, a huge home, a home that has a huge need for priceless artifacts, just so long as the Board of Directors of the Confederate Museum relinquishes ownership of these priceless artifacts and doesn't come with them, and the Louisiana State Museum also has need of a location for its planned museum on the civil rights movement in the state and since the Confederate Museum will more than likely be removed from its current location in any event, well what better place than where the Confederate Museum is right now, since it is highly unlikely that the Board of Directors would allow its vast collection to be turned over to the Ogden Museum and made into a small Civil War Wing. What is not seen is that UNO [the University of New Orleans] is part and parcel of the Louisiana State University system and is controlled by the state of Louisiana which also controls the Louisiana State Museum system. Over the years there have been repeated propaganda campaigns against the Civil War Museum which have indoctrinated many people into believing that the Civil War Museum is a glorification of the Old South and Slavery and the Confederacy and ought to be closed down. Of course if all of these priceless artifacts are on display at an official museum of the State of Louisiana than that would be different and wouldn't be a glorification of the old South and the Confederacy. It would just be a display of history even though that is exactly what it is now. It just isn't controlled by the state or the Ogden Museum or someone else other than the people who have displayed it for the last 75 years in a building which they were bequeathed by a Jewish philanthropist who also funded, if memory serves me correctly, the creation of the Howard Tilton Library at Tulane University and who wished there to be a place to house and display the artifacts of the Civil War. But since, there are people with the UNO Foundation who can literally produce out of thin air a title to that same building, a title that no one had ever seen during the last 75 years, then it's not all that difficult to get a judge to legally turn control of the museum over to the state, is it? I hope you all will take good note of just how easy it is for many well-connected and well-financed foundations and academics and government-run boards and commissions to take control of something they want regardless of who owns it. And if a treaty were involved well that would be just a minor detail for these legalized thieves. John Craven New Orleans

In a message dated 8/10/2002 10:14:15 PM Central Daylight Time, ElkDremr@aol.com writes: > Halito Lorie > I have been on this list for a couple of years now. When I go into my > e-mail each morning it puts a smile on my face and with all of the brothers > and sisters of our Nation It makes me Proud to be Choctaw. > Walk in Beauty > Elkdreamer > Elkdreamer speaks the truth, Lori. This is one of the great lists around I think and should make all of us proud of our Choctaw heritage. John Craven New Orleans

also George Ann & Lori The Oklahoma Historical Society is another good source. Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer

Halito Lorie I have been on this list for a couple of years now. When I go into my e-mail each morning it puts a smile on my face and with all of the brothers and sisters of our Nation It makes me Proud to be Choctaw. Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4gC.2ACE/486.505 Message Board Post: Just to shot this past u. im from south carolina , and have a grandmother named Martha A Neace she was born around 1848 and she was full blooded indian . And she had a baby by a man named Jack Sherley . And was wondering if u have heard of these names , i know it probley is not her , but i have hit a brick wall on her. the storie is Jack was going to be hung for stealing a horse , and they run off together . I do not know a tribe but know she was here until 1870 , and after that she is gone . Thank you for your time Kevin. u can e-mail me at gthang187@hotmail.com

Thank you so much Johnny...I will give it a try to find out a little more than what I have. You are wonderful to answer all these emails! Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 11:07 PM To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Ivy/Ivey, Perkins, Russell, or Smith Hello Mary, I came across the following info in Goss' book: Russell --- none but there's a Rousseau, page 432 Perkins --- I listed the Perkins I found in an email I sent to early tonight to the list. Smith ---- four names Smith, 223, 605 *Smith, Choate, *118 Smith, John, 142 *Smith, Melly, *118 John Craven New Orleans ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.... Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes and spelled correctly. Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures.......

In a message dated 8/10/2002 9:56:26 AM Central Daylight Time, wood_owl@hotmail.com writes: > You might contact the Mississippi Choctaw. They seem to have a great deal of > information about migration routes. I noticed on their website that a group > of Choctaw considered moving to Mexico like some of the Cherokee. > > George Ann > > George Ann, I heard a news item in the last few days about a whole tribe of Mexican Indians seeking asylum in the U. S. because of their problems in Mexico. John Craven New Orleans

Yes, but I don't know the reference. You might see if the University of Oklahoma has references. You might be able to find out if their library has those holdings on line (many libraries can be accessed online these days). Even if you can't check them out, you could at least find out the name of the documents. I'm just guessing that they would house data regarding all the native groups in Oklahoma. You might check with the Oklahoma Choctaw to see what documents they have. George Ann >From: Lori0602h@aol.com >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Choctaw removals >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:09:09 EDT > >George Ann: > >Is there a record of the letters documented anywhere? > >Thanks, >Lori > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to the >list. Write to me, the listowner, at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

Wow! My grandmother's maiden name may have been Hedges, and according to one census she was born in Illinois. I have seen one book that stated there was a colony of Choctaw in Illinois. George Ann >From: AhSweet1@aol.com >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Rogers >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 16:02:51 EDT > >Gentledoe317, > I don't have a Rogers in my family line, but if it helps you - so >many >people are in your situation. I was always told my grandfather(Marcus >Hedges) >was from Hannibal, Missouri. After I got a copy of his application for his >social security card, it said Illinois. So researching Illinois census I >found more information. I did discover Hannibal, Missouri is only a few >hundred miles from Illinois......maybe he was born in Missouri and raised >in >Illinois or vice-versa. > > Carol > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >Need more CHOCTAW information?? Try Rusty Lang's website at >http://www.choctaw-web.com for censuses, genealogy lessons, articles, etc. > _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

You might contact the Mississippi Choctaw. They seem to have a great deal of information about migration routes. I noticed on their website that a group of Choctaw considered moving to Mexico like some of the Cherokee. George Ann >From: Lori0602h@aol.com >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Choctaw removals >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 13:59:30 EDT > >George Ann: > >Can you suggest a way that I can research this for the Choctaws? > >Thanks, > >Lori > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

letters and emissaries George Ann >From: Lori0602h@aol.com >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Choctaw removals >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 13:57:19 EDT > >George Ann: > >What form of "regular invitations" did the Oklahoma Choctaw send to their >Mississippi relatives to join them? > >I'm especially interested in this as my ggg grnadmother had children and >siblings that may have relocated to Oklahoma. Unfortunately, I don't know >their names but it is worth the research to me. > >Lori > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.... >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes >and spelled correctly. >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

Iuka Ms. is in Tishomingo county Ms.- north east corner next to Alabama line and TomBigBee river. Ron