In a message dated 8/11/2002 9:39:50 AM Central Daylight Time, wood_owl@hotmail.com writes: > > Hear! Hear! > > The discussions, for me, seem to be bearing more fruit these days. I am > delighted to pick up any information I can that might give me some clue > about my grandmother. > > George Ann > > George Ann, I checked out Goss' book when I was at the library for any Hedges but I found none. Is that the correct name I should be looking for? John Craven New Orleans

In a message dated 8/11/2002 9:35:01 AM Central Daylight Time, wood_owl@hotmail.com writes: > Now, I wish I lived close enough to make a visit to New Orleans. What a > city! > > George Ann > > You said a mouthful there George Ann especially given all that's going on here lately at City Hall. John Craven New Orleans

In a message dated 8/11/2002 8:41:49 AM Central Daylight Time, Lori0602h@aol.com writes: > List Members: > > If there is not a copy of the book at your local library, you can request > it > through interlibrary loan. > > Good luck! > > Lori > > That's true but not all books are available for interlibrary loan. I recently was turned down by the Library of Congress regarding a book I requested on interlibrary loan. So, usually they are available for interlibrary loan but not always. John Craven New Orleans

In a message dated 8/11/2002 8:38:11 AM Central Daylight Time, Lori0602h@aol.com writes: > > This is so sad and you speak the truth. It reminds me of how I've gone to > various places to research. I find information that is so historic and > delightful. When I return, the records have been lost and never found > again. > Ufortunately, it happens more often to non-whites. It makes me wonder if > there is a concerted effort to keep us from learning and proving our > ancestry. > > Lori > Lori, I think that's part of it. Keeping people ignorant of the history is a way that those who rule can keep control of people. Look at the various totalitarian governments that the 20th century produced, specifically the Soviet Union. I think everyone of them sought to abolish all legacies of the past and only teach the history that they approved of. I think that's part of it. And it's not that every tradition of every culture, Indian or non-Indian is worth preserving and maintaining and continuing. Bone-picking is one custom I'm more than happy to see not being practiced today but even with bone-picking it is a custom that people should be aware existed in Choctaw history. I recently received three microfilm reels of the papers of Andrew Jackson from the state of Tennessee's library and in looking over them I came across a letter from a museum curator with regards to a previously unknown animal species' skeleton which had been found in a cave which had a fairly big tusk and which talked of an Indian burial mound in Tennessee which had been accidentally uncovered it seems by a farmer tilling his soil and there was a wonderful diagram of it and apparently there were bones excavated and sent to the museum. There was also a diagram of what appeared to be Mayan pyramid and I'm not certain yet if the pyramid was something that was discovered in the Yucatan or was found at the burial mound. I've heard of Indian Mounds before and one list member sent me a wonderful photo of one but I had never associated Andrew Jackson with one. And I had never heard of this one before located at a place called Bledsoe's Lick in Sumter County, Tennessee. I think that's the name of the county. It's hard to read some of these letters. But again this touches on the point you mentioned about keeping people ignorant of their history. In any event good luck with your ongoing search. John Craven New Orleans

In a message dated 8/11/2002 8:32:47 AM Central Daylight Time, Lori0602h@aol.com writes: > > Halito John. > > I totally agree. I'm so glad to have met so many wonderful people. I'm > recuperating from cancer and two broken hips and am thankful to be alive. > Having such wonderful contacts have made life worth living. > > Lori > > Hello Lori, my mother had a mastectomy last year and so I understand somewhat what you are struggling through and last week I had an old friend who finally gave up the struggle with cancer. I will keep you in my prayers for your swift recuperation. John Craven New Orleans

In a message dated 8/11/2002 6:00:46 AM Central Daylight Time, angelync@msn.com writes: > > Has anyone contacted whichever of Louisiana's U.S. Senators is NOT running > for office this year? The one who is not MIGHT be willing to 'buck' the > politically-correct crowd. Where do the New Orlean's mayor and the U.S. > Congressman for the New Orleans district stand? 'Course I don't recall > reading of anyone complaining when a New Orlean's school changed its name > because George Washington owned slaves. Nor was there much of a public > out-cry here in Oklahoma when the Confederate flag was removed from the > area where other flags representing the various 'bodies' that had once > ruled this territory/state were and are flying. > Angelyn > Hello Angelyn, the mayor of New Orleans is new and perhaps you may have heard that he is up to his ears in prosecuting wholesale departments in City Hall for total corruption and is even being threatened because he's trying to clean up years of corruption at City Hall under the previous administrations. As far as our senator who's not running for office this year, John Breaux, I think you can easily forget his helping in this matter. And it's not simply about the priceless artifacts and important documents that so many people use to trace their heritage in the South both before and after the Civil War. This is a very subtle and very, very sophisticated form of theft of priceless artifacts from another day and age. I ran into the curator of the museum today quite by accident and I asked him about the museum being closed and he told me it's a mess what's happened but that while the appeals process is going on he's going to try and re-open the museum. I hope and pray he can and if he does, I hope and pray that any list members who can go down there and check it out will and take advantage of the great books of lists of names who served in the war on both sides that they have for people to look at upon request. In any event I hope people will keep informed about this for other reasons as well. As I understand it and I could be wrong, none of the treaties that any Indian tribe has signed with the United States government cover Indian artifacts. Maybe some laws independently of the treaties have been written to cover Indian artifacts but I don't know of them. These museums and foundations that support them are in the business of acquisitions and they have big buildings to fill and I think they don't care how or from where they get their acquistitions and if there's a question of legal ownership, it seems obvious that they can easily manufacture titles to the artifacts or to the buildings that hold them and put the people who possess the artifacts into a trick bag or squeeze play whereby they either relinquish ownership of the artifacts or watch them auctioned off or stored away forever. Keep the people who run the Confederate War Museum in your prayers. John Craven New Orleans

Regarding this, it is good to remember that Texas was part of Mexico until 1836, then a private republic for a few years until admitted to the Union. Also, it's territory was larger than present day Texas, as was the Arkansas Territory that our ancestors were removed to. It wasn't Oklahoma until after 1900. ----- Original Message ----- From: george ann gregory To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Choctaw removals That is probably the Kickapoo, who have been in negotiations in the past to move into the US. That is one of the nations that became divided after the Mexican-American War. Nobody seems to know what happened to the Cherokee (and I guess from some data I read on the web last night also some Choctaw) who had moved into Mexico about 1832 prior to that war. There are colonies in north Texas, but some went into the state of Cohuila, which is a barren desert with very few inhabitants. To my knowledge no one has gone down there to see if any of the current inhabitants are decendents or not. A pueblo friend of mine made a trip to southern Mexico and visited with descendents of Acoma Pueblo who had been taken there as slaves by Oñate's men. They still had remnants of their original language after 350? years. The border has cut off many groups from each other, especially in the SW, making it difficult for these groups to maintain certain ceremonies because they are no longer being allowed to travel freely across the borders. The consequences of war are unfortunately always sad, in my opinion. George Ann >From: JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Choctaw removals >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:10:44 EDT > >In a message dated 8/10/2002 9:56:26 AM Central Daylight Time, >wood_owl@hotmail.com writes: > > > > You might contact the Mississippi Choctaw. They seem to have a great >deal of > > information about migration routes. I noticed on their website that a >group > > of Choctaw considered moving to Mexico like some of the Cherokee. > > > > George Ann > > > > > >George Ann, > > I heard a news item in the last few days about a whole tribe of >Mexican Indians seeking asylum in the U. S. because of their problems in >Mexico. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >Try Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST pages at >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.html for CHOCTAW >Muster Rolls, Orphans lists, censuses, land records, etc. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== Home Page: http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/chat.htm

Oakdale is in the present county of Marshall, Oklahoma. Check out their website and list of cemeteries.

my last name is Trahan which has many differt spellings could they be the same as my last name which is also spelled Trahern and many other ways ----- Original Message ----- From: <JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 12:20 AM Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] William Trahern -- William Trahorn > Hello AhSweet1, > > previously you wrote in an email: > > "I know my great great grandfather was William > Trahern.......close!" > > you mentioned the name William Trahern but did you know that one of > the signers of the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek was a William Trahorn? > > Could be one and the same person. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Try Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST pages at http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.html for CHOCTAW Muster Rolls, Orphans lists, censuses, land records, etc. > >

I am looking for information on the family of my great grandmother, Patience (Pashia) Jane Roberts. She married James W. Sawyer(s). Her sister Mary married Richard Wright, brother "Bud" married Lottie Brown. Patience is buried at Bentley Oklahoma in an unmarked grave in the Indian Cemetery. I have been told that she was of the Choctaw. Supposedly there was a sewing factory at bentley in the past and she was employed there. If you have any info on any of the above mentioned please email me. Sandra Sawyer Banks __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com

--- ElkDremr@aol.com wrote: > also George Ann & Lori The Oklahoma Historical > Society is another good > source. > Walk in Beauty > Elkdreamer > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to > CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... > "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off > signatures....... > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com

Hear! Hear! The discussions, for me, seem to be bearing more fruit these days. I am delighted to pick up any information I can that might give me some clue about my grandmother. George Ann >From: Lori0602h@aol.com >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Great List! >Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 09:32:10 EDT > >Halito John. > >I totally agree. I'm so glad to have met so many wonderful people. I'm >recuperating from cancer and two broken hips and am thankful to be alive. >Having such wonderful contacts have made life worth living. > >Lori > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >Need more CHOCTAW information. Try Judy White's NATIVE AMERICAN RESOURCE >CENTER at http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, newsletters, >lookups, articles, etc. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Now, I wish I lived close enough to make a visit to New Orleans. What a city! George Ann >From: JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Index to the Archives of Spanish West Florida, 1782 - >1810 >Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 04:36:01 EDT > >Hello List Members, > > I just discovered a book at the library today which I think may be >of >great help to anyone who comes to New Orleans to do research. > > It is called "Index to the Archives of Spanish West Florida, 1782 - >1810" by Stanley Clisby Arthur (Polyanthos, New Orleans, 1975). > > In the 1930's, I believe as part of the WPA, a project was >undertaken >to translate and transcribe into English the papers of the Spanish >Government >of West Flordia, District of Baton Rouge. This project was completed in >1937 and produced nineteen volumes of translations and transcriptions, >copies >of which can be found at the Louisiana State Museum in New Orleans. > > Arthur's book indexes each of the nineteen volumes and includes >references to the Choctaw, Chickasaw and other tribes. It also includes >the >names of people who have had an historical relationship with these tribes, >including one of my ancestors, Simon Favre, and others who have cropped up >on >the list on occassion such as John Turnbull. It includes references to >many >interpreters and to the surveyor Vicente Sebastian Pintado. It covers a >lot >of transactions concerning slaves, Free Negroes, Free Mulatoes, and it >covers >a lot of land transactions and who were involved. > > It really looks like an invaluable source to anyone researching >those >times and West Florida. I do not know where it is available outside >Louisiana but I imagine that some of the main libraries across the Gulf >Coast >would have a copy. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHAHTA-L list discussions on history, culture, language. >Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes, >nothing in the subject line, turn off signatures. >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Cool! George Ann >From: ElkDremr@aol.com >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Choctaw removals >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 23:27:01 EDT > >also George Ann & Lori The Oklahoma Historical Society is another good >source. > Walk in Beauty > Elkdreamer > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

That is probably the Kickapoo, who have been in negotiations in the past to move into the US. That is one of the nations that became divided after the Mexican-American War. Nobody seems to know what happened to the Cherokee (and I guess from some data I read on the web last night also some Choctaw) who had moved into Mexico about 1832 prior to that war. There are colonies in north Texas, but some went into the state of Cohuila, which is a barren desert with very few inhabitants. To my knowledge no one has gone down there to see if any of the current inhabitants are decendents or not. A pueblo friend of mine made a trip to southern Mexico and visited with descendents of Acoma Pueblo who had been taken there as slaves by Oñate's men. They still had remnants of their original language after 350? years. The border has cut off many groups from each other, especially in the SW, making it difficult for these groups to maintain certain ceremonies because they are no longer being allowed to travel freely across the borders. The consequences of war are unfortunately always sad, in my opinion. George Ann >From: JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Choctaw removals >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:10:44 EDT > >In a message dated 8/10/2002 9:56:26 AM Central Daylight Time, >wood_owl@hotmail.com writes: > > > > You might contact the Mississippi Choctaw. They seem to have a great >deal of > > information about migration routes. I noticed on their website that a >group > > of Choctaw considered moving to Mexico like some of the Cherokee. > > > > George Ann > > > > > >George Ann, > > I heard a news item in the last few days about a whole tribe of >Mexican Indians seeking asylum in the U. S. because of their problems in >Mexico. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >Try Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST pages at >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.html for CHOCTAW >Muster Rolls, Orphans lists, censuses, land records, etc. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

In the approximate 1830's, there was a county in Oklahoma named Pickens County and was in the Chickasaw Nation. There was a graveyard there near the Pickens County Courthouse, on Briar Creek. Some of my Choctaw ancestors are said to be buried there. It is reported the graveyard was on the "Lizzie Wisdom place". Does anyone have, or know of, a map that shows where the old graveyard, the old courthouse, or Lizzie Wisdom's place might have been? I will only assume that there was a town called Pickens. A cousin has a map showing Pickens County, but the only town shown there is Oakland. Was Oakland the county seat of Pickens County? Clemmie Sacra's grandmother is said to be buried there and we're trying to determine who she was. If anyone has any information that would help us find this graveyard, we would appreciate it very much. Suzie

Welcome Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer

Your Grandfather was very profound! Thanks for sharing that. Donna ElkDremr@aol.com wrote: Halito And Good morning to everyone Degree of Blood is not important. Indian comes from the heart. When I was a young child I asked my Grandfather how much Indian I was. He told me to cut myself and see if I could count the drops of blood that was Indian and what was not.  Walk in Beauty    Elkdreamer __________________________________________________________________ Pre-order the NEW Netscape 7.0 browser. Reserve your FREE CD and pay only $2.99 shipping and handling. http://cd.netscape.com/promo_one/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

Halito And Good morning to everyone Degree of Blood is not important. Indian comes from the heart. When I was a young child I asked my Grandfather how much Indian I was. He told me to cut myself and see if I could count the drops of blood that was Indian and what was not. Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer

Halito Little Dear: Thank you for your comments. Lori