In a message dated 8/27/2002 7:11:34 AM Central Daylight Time, Lori0602h@aol.com writes: > > You are probably correct about the term "Captain" because my great great > grandmother commented in her testimony before the Commission on the Five > Civilized Tribes that her mother and the white man told her that her father > was "Captain John." She was 74 at that time (1901), Now I'll try to find > something on Captain John to further my research. I'm sure it will be > difficult, but I like challenges. > > Lori, there were some Indian muster rolls from the War of 1812 and afterwards that can be found in various places. I came across one signed by Andrew Jackson on some reels of microfilm that were sent me from the State of Tennessee recently. It was discharge orders, dated April 29, 1818, for a Company of Indian Warriors commanded by Capt. Powas Hanjo who apparently was under the command of Major G. Cutler. It was said to have the names of 68 Indians on it and was provided as an Autograph by Forest H. Sweet of Battle Creek, Michigan. I do not know if Forrest H. Sweet is the name of an individual person or of a company that provided the Autorgraph of Jackson's Discharge orders to the Company of Indians commanded by Capt. Powas Hanjo. I also don't know what tribe these Indians were from. This list include two Indian Lieutenants, 4 Indian sargeants, 4 Indian corporals and the rest of the Indians were privates. I gather from this that the company was divided in half with one Lieutenant for each half of the company. I'm not sure what you would call half a company - a platoon? If that's the correct term, then each half of the company was further subdivided into two more halves - squads? - with each one of these commanded by a sargeant with a corporal as second in command. From my NJROTC days in high school, all I remember is that a battalion broke down into companies and a company broke down into platoons and platoons broke down into squads. And a regiment was comprised of several battalions and a division was comprised of several regiments. But I could be completely confused. In any event, there should be other lists of Indian muster rolls around somewhere. John Craven New Orleans
The term undoubtedly involves serving with either the British (perhaps during the Revolutionary War) or with the Americans (during the war of 1812). Originally, the Choctaw had war chiefs and peace chiefs. It is my understanding that clans were originally headed by women since lineage and inheritance comes through the mother. George Ann >From: JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Can Anyone Help Me With Term "Captain" >Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 01:19:49 EDT > >In a message dated 8/26/2002 9:47:37 PM Central Daylight Time, >Lori0602h@aol.com writes: > > > > Has anyone heard the term "Captain" used. If so, how, when and why? >From > > what we are reading, their were various types of chiefs and captain was >one > > of them. Any and all information will be greatly appreciated. > > > > Lori > > > >Hello Lori, > > I think that the term Captain and other US Military terms that are >used by your ancestor and other Choctaw ancestors was a byproduct of the >War >of 1812 in which the Choctaw under Pushmataha served in the US forces >defending New Orleans and the Gulf Coast from attack by the British and the >Creek Indians. > > Pushmataha was made a Brigadier General in the US Army by Andrew >Jackson and led Choctaw warriors against the Creeks and at the Battle of >New >Orleans on January 8, 1815, two weeks after an armistice had been agreed to >by the US and Britain but before word reached the farthest reaches of the >conflict. > > The Battle of New Orleans was a monumental defeat for the British >in >which they lost their commanding general and I think about 2500 soldiers >compared to US losses of about 13 casualties including 7 dead. The Battle >of >New Orleans forever sealed the fate of our nation and Andrew Jackson gave >great credit for the victory to Pushmataha and his Choctaw warriors. > > The Battle of New Orleans was the first US engagement in war in >which >many very diverse groups played equal and pivotal roles, including the >Choctaws. Groups such as the Freemen of Color, Creoles, French, Spanish, >and >even Jean Lafitte's pirates of Barataria Bay and Andrew Jackson's Tennessee >Volunteers. There is a wonderful period movie about it featuring Yul >Brynner >and Charlton Heston called "The Buccaneer" which was made in the 1950's >and >which you can probably rent at your local video store to give you a sense >of >the times..Even though it mentions almost nothing of the Choctaw >contribution, I always thought it was a very good movie. > > Until the British defeat at the Battle of New Orleans, their 15,000 >to >20,000 man force had been soundly defeating US forces on the waters >surrounding New Orleans. > > Had we lost the Battle of New Orleans, the war would have resumed >with >the British in complete control of the Mississippi River. Who knows what >our >nation would look like now. > > At least one of my Bourgeois ancestors served at the Battle of New >Orleans, Francois Valentine Bourgeois. Francois' son, Bernardo, married >Isabella Rosa, the daughter of Alexis Favre and Cuna, his Indian wife. >Alexis Favre was the son of Simon Favre and Pis-tik-i-ok-o-nay. >Pis-tik-i-ok-o-nay was the daughter of Cham-nay and, as best as I can >determine, Pushmataha, the first non-European brigadier general of the >United >States of America and the Great Medal Mingo of the Choctaw Nation. >Pushmataha died on Christmas Eve, 1824, in Washington, D.C. while >negotiating >a treaty with the United States which eventually became the Treaty of >Dancing >Rabbit Creek. He was buried in the Old Congressional cemetary with full >military honors and a 21 cannon salute as befitting the head of a nation >and >as Andrew Jackson had promised him. > > The terms, Captain, and such, were retained by the Choctaw who were >called by these terms because they had been commissioned in the US Military >during the War of 1812 with those titles. That's my understanding of it. >That's why you'll see, for instance, Colonel Johnston in the Choctaw rolls >as >found in the 1889 Goss book on Choctaw Claimants and their Heirs. He was a >Colonel in the US Army and proudly kept the title. > > I hope this helps. I may be missing some things or even have some >things in error but this is my understanding about the source of the titles >of Captain and such amongst the Choctaw. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >Need more CHOCTAW information?? Try Rusty Lang's website at >http://www.choctaw-web.com for censuses, genealogy lessons, articles, etc. > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Yokoke for your help and comments. Lori
Yokoke for your response and help. Lori
Can someone tell me, once again, how to view the dawes rolls thru Nara?
According to the book " South carolina Indians and Indian Traders " the word captain was a title in use with referrence to leaders in the American Indian communities by the time the English settlers arrived in S. C. These title's , instead of Chief and Headman , ( Captian, General, Colonel ) were used in the earliest cessions of lands by the Indians. ============================================= just typing what one referrence book had to say about the title ......pat ShiningWindStar Holoce Hotvle Kococumpv NATIVE AMERICAN HOME FIRES New members by acceptance only! www.yahoogroups.com/group/NativeAmericanHomeFires --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.384 / Virus Database: 216 - Release Date: 8/21/2002
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4gC.2ACE/972 Message Board Post: I am a decendent of Artis Eslick, he is the son of Samuel Eslick Sr. and Sally Pennington. I am looking for any information on Artis or Sally. I know that many of Samuel Eslicks children are of Choctaw decent. Samuel was married twice first to Sally Pennington and then to Lavina Davis. I am looking for any information on this family.
Yokoke, Redhawk1. I greatly appreciate your comments. Lori
John: Wow, what a history lesson you have provided me. Yokoke for this massive amount of information. I will try to get "The Buccaneer" starring Yul Brynner and Charlton Heston at the video store to get an understanding of the time. You are probably correct about the term "Captain" because my great great grandmother commented in her testimony before the Commission on the Five Civilized Tribes that her mother and the white man told her that her father was "Captain John." She was 74 at that time (1901), Now I'll try to find something on Captain John to further my research. I'm sure it will be difficult, but I like challenges. Again, yokoke! Lori
In a message dated 8/26/2002 9:47:37 PM Central Daylight Time, Lori0602h@aol.com writes: > Has anyone heard the term "Captain" used. If so, how, when and why? From > what we are reading, their were various types of chiefs and captain was one > of them. Any and all information will be greatly appreciated. > > Lori > Hello Lori, I think that the term Captain and other US Military terms that are used by your ancestor and other Choctaw ancestors was a byproduct of the War of 1812 in which the Choctaw under Pushmataha served in the US forces defending New Orleans and the Gulf Coast from attack by the British and the Creek Indians. Pushmataha was made a Brigadier General in the US Army by Andrew Jackson and led Choctaw warriors against the Creeks and at the Battle of New Orleans on January 8, 1815, two weeks after an armistice had been agreed to by the US and Britain but before word reached the farthest reaches of the conflict. The Battle of New Orleans was a monumental defeat for the British in which they lost their commanding general and I think about 2500 soldiers compared to US losses of about 13 casualties including 7 dead. The Battle of New Orleans forever sealed the fate of our nation and Andrew Jackson gave great credit for the victory to Pushmataha and his Choctaw warriors. The Battle of New Orleans was the first US engagement in war in which many very diverse groups played equal and pivotal roles, including the Choctaws. Groups such as the Freemen of Color, Creoles, French, Spanish, and even Jean Lafitte's pirates of Barataria Bay and Andrew Jackson's Tennessee Volunteers. There is a wonderful period movie about it featuring Yul Brynner and Charlton Heston called "The Buccaneer" which was made in the 1950's and which you can probably rent at your local video store to give you a sense of the times..Even though it mentions almost nothing of the Choctaw contribution, I always thought it was a very good movie. Until the British defeat at the Battle of New Orleans, their 15,000 to 20,000 man force had been soundly defeating US forces on the waters surrounding New Orleans. Had we lost the Battle of New Orleans, the war would have resumed with the British in complete control of the Mississippi River. Who knows what our nation would look like now. At least one of my Bourgeois ancestors served at the Battle of New Orleans, Francois Valentine Bourgeois. Francois' son, Bernardo, married Isabella Rosa, the daughter of Alexis Favre and Cuna, his Indian wife. Alexis Favre was the son of Simon Favre and Pis-tik-i-ok-o-nay. Pis-tik-i-ok-o-nay was the daughter of Cham-nay and, as best as I can determine, Pushmataha, the first non-European brigadier general of the United States of America and the Great Medal Mingo of the Choctaw Nation. Pushmataha died on Christmas Eve, 1824, in Washington, D.C. while negotiating a treaty with the United States which eventually became the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek. He was buried in the Old Congressional cemetary with full military honors and a 21 cannon salute as befitting the head of a nation and as Andrew Jackson had promised him. The terms, Captain, and such, were retained by the Choctaw who were called by these terms because they had been commissioned in the US Military during the War of 1812 with those titles. That's my understanding of it. That's why you'll see, for instance, Colonel Johnston in the Choctaw rolls as found in the 1889 Goss book on Choctaw Claimants and their Heirs. He was a Colonel in the US Army and proudly kept the title. I hope this helps. I may be missing some things or even have some things in error but this is my understanding about the source of the titles of Captain and such amongst the Choctaw. John Craven New Orleans
In a message dated 8/26/2002 3:17:57 PM Central Daylight Time, dustyc@microgear.net writes: > > William: > > Could you give the listmembers a little more information - complete names, > birthdates, where did your ancestor live? > > dusty > List Admin. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Prudholm <choctawprudholm@msn.com> > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 6:37 PM > > > > If anyone has any info on the surname: "Prudholm" or simularly spelled, I > am researching my familie's history. I would greatly appreciate it! > > > > Thanks! > > > > Sincerely, > > William Prudholm > > > > > Hello William, your last name is similar to a last name that's well known in these parts, namely "Prudhomme". There is a well known chef here in New Orleans called Paul Prudhomme. If you all aren't related it's possible you are related to others with the last name of Prudhomme. John Craven New Orleans
I hope that someone on this list will be able to enlighten me regarding the term "Captain." In my great great grandmother's enrollment case file, I found that her father was "Capt. John," a full-Choctaw. My cousin and I found a book at the NAES College that provided some interesting information. The book, "The Roots of Dependency: Subsistence Environment and Social Change Among Choctaw, Pawnee and Navajo", by Richard White. In Chapter 3 - The Evolution of the Choctaw Playoff System, it discussed chiefs, captains and warriors. Captains were heads of the Iksas family. Has anyone heard the term "Captain" used. If so, how, when and why? From what we are reading, their were various types of chiefs and captain was one of them. Any and all information will be greatly appreciated. Lori
I believe that the term "iksas" means "clans." So, at the time, there was no Iksas family, though each clan was obviously made up of related families. The captains were the leaders of the clans. Of course, the word captain was a white title. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lori0602h@aol.com To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 7:46 PM Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Can Anyone Help Me With Term "Captain" I hope that someone on this list will be able to enlighten me regarding the term "Captain." In my great great grandmother's enrollment case file, I found that her father was "Capt. John," a full-Choctaw. My cousin and I found a book at the NAES College that provided some interesting information. The book, "The Roots of Dependency: Subsistence Environment and Social Change Among Choctaw, Pawnee and Navajo", by Richard White. In Chapter 3 - The Evolution of the Choctaw Playoff System, it discussed chiefs, captains and warriors. Captains were heads of the Iksas family. Has anyone heard the term "Captain" used. If so, how, when and why? From what we are reading, their were various types of chiefs and captain was one of them. Any and all information will be greatly appreciated. Lori ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== To subscribe to CHAHTA-L list discussions on history, culture, language. Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes, nothing in the subject line, turn off signatures. Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures.......
William: Could you give the listmembers a little more information - complete names, birthdates, where did your ancestor live? dusty List Admin. ----- Original Message ----- From: William Prudholm <choctawprudholm@msn.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 6:37 PM > If anyone has any info on the surname: "Prudholm" or simularly spelled, I am researching my familie's history. I would greatly appreciate it! > > Thanks! > > Sincerely, > William Prudholm >
Charles: You will have to unsubscribe yourself as instructed in your "Welcome Message". dusty List Admin. ----- Original Message ----- From: charles rogers <CCharlesRogers@netscape.net> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 12:41 AM Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] no more male please > thank you for your persistent efforts to put me in contact with other members of the Choctaw nation. I am no longer interested in receiving e-mails from you and that they really feel my mailbox to a degree in which is not a positive experience for me, so please don't send any more thank you God bless you long live the Choctaw nation. > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ > > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Try Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST pages at http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.html for CHOCTAW Muster Rolls, Orphans lists, censuses, land records, etc. >
Angelyn - This was the question Corine asked: "Thanks, Suzie, for the reminder... Is your LeFlore of the family of Louisa LeFlore b. ca 1832 d. 1864 m. Wilson Nathaniel Jones? Corine" Suzie
Yas, I saw her question, Suzie. My answer was to YOUR mail rather than her's! Angelyn ------ Original Message ----- From: Jleflore65@aol.com Sent: Sun, Aug 25, 2002 4:31pm To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Bryan County OK Angelyn - This was the question Corine asked: "Thanks, Suzie, for the reminder... Is your LeFlore of the family of Louisa LeFlore b. ca 1832 d. 1864 m. Wilson Nathaniel Jones? Corine" Suzie ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== Need more CHOCTAW information?? Try Rusty Lang's website at http://www.choctaw-web.com for censuses, genealogy lessons, articles, etc.