Deana: I agree with you that if an person who was interviewed by the Commission could not prove full Choctaw, their enrollment application was denied. I further believe that if the person did not know whether their parent(s), ancestors, etc. signed the Dancing Rabbit Treaty (Article 14), their enrollment application was also denied. I came to these conclusions from reading my great grandfather's, great great grandmother's, great great great grandmother's and other relatives' enrollment case files (MCR #s). Interestingly, they came to the interview with an attorney. The attorney asked to submit proof that they were Choctaw. However, none of the attorney's papers were included in the record and their applications were denied. Lori Lori

I love your statement that "Any Mixedblood who had(has) Indian blood would be a Native Amerian, whatever their color, features, or other bloodlines in the mix..." Lori

Harjo is a well-known Creek surname. For example, Joy Harjo(Creek) is a famous poet. I love her poem "She had some horses." Another Harjo (maybe Linda) also publishes. George Ann >From: "Linda" <greyoaks@brightok.net> >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Meaning of the name "Harjo" >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 11:36:48 -0500 > >Harjo means "crazy" in the Creek/Seminole language- >- >Linda- > > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

I have seen policemen write down information different than what I was giving them as a witness to a crime. I don't have any difficulty believing that census takers wrote what they believed or wanted to believe. George Ann >From: Buttons922@aol.com >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] question >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:41:36 EDT > >Yes, Census takers were very prejudice against Native Americans you are >right on that many the Choctaw and other Nations were listed as "MU" > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >Need more CHOCTAW information?? Try Rusty Lang's website at >http://www.choctaw-web.com for censuses, genealogy lessons, articles, etc. > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

This isn't my area of primary research; however, historians who study slavery claim that what occurred in the US in the South is unprecedented in cruelty. George Ann >From: JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Harper - Which SixTown location & other questions >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 02:13:33 EDT > >In a message dated 8/29/2002 8:45:58 PM Central Daylight Time, >greybird7@pisp.net writes: > > > > > > I believe Indian slavery began with Columbus, (1400s) as he did steal >many > > Indians and took them to Spain to sell as slaves...He sold as slaves >those > > he could catch that would bring him the most money... > > In England before they came over here, the English would enslave only >those > > who were non-christian, regardless of their race...and that carried over >to > > here for a time, but around 1700 they began to change the indentured >slaves, > > (Indian and African) into permanent slaves. > > A good site to read about it is: > > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1narr3.html > > B. > > > >Slavery was practiced by Indians long before Columbus. Slavery was >practiced >on every continent by every race amongst every people. > > The first to write against slavery were the popes beginning in 1435 >when Pope Eugene IV condemned making slaves of the Canary Islanders by some >of the Spanish. > > This condemnation carried over into the New World when in 1537 Pope >Paul III issued a series of papal documents condemning the unjust making of >slaves of Indians as well as Negroes and others under penalty of automatic >excommunication. > > Subsequent popes continued issuing papal documents condemning >slavery >throughout the world and calling for restitution to those who had been >unjustly enslaved as early as 1591 by Pope Gregory XIV. > > In some parts of the world, such as amongst the Galla and Sidama >tribes of West Africa, slavery had such deep and ancient roots in the >economy >of the people that voluntary slavery had become a form of currency amongst >these peoples. > > Despite the condemnation of many popes, slavery continued well into >the last century and it is still being practiced today in the Sudan by >Moslems against Christians. In the past it has been practised by >Cambodians >against Laotians, by the Japanese during WWII against the Chinese, and, >yes, >even by Indians against Indians both before and after Columbus. > > It was also possible under Spanish rule for a slave to buy his or >her >freedom and it was even possible to buy the freedom of a slave yet to be >born. And you didn't have to be a Christian to buy your freedom under >Spanish rule. Nor were you necessarily given your freedom because you >became >a Christian. > > It's very chic to blame one race for slavery but that isn't the >truth. > The Human Race came up with the idea of slavery and practiced it amongst >every people and culture and race on earth. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >DON'T FORGET OUR ARCHIVES. Got a question? Looking for ancestor's name? >Check our archives at: >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4gC.2ACE/945.1 Message Board Post: I've been researching the ancestry of the Ladner family and have come a Paul Victor Cox m. Armina Ladner 25 Dec 1888 in Ocean Springs, MS. Not sure if this may help.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4gC.2ACE/948.2 Message Board Post: I have a Frances C Bond b.02 Jul 1859 m. Alexander Ladner. And a Elizabeth Bond b.10 feb 1868 m.24 Mar 1886 to Carlos Ladner. All from the lower Mississippi area. If this helps let me know.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4gC.2ACE/974 Message Board Post: I am reseaching my maternal grandmothers ancestry and have come across an Indian named "Marie" Pany, daughter of Panyouasas, who married Jean Baptiste dit Graveline around 1700. Any help on her family would be greatly appreciated. They raised their family in Mobile, AL.

I had been under the impression tha Harjo was Creek for "crazy". See one Sinta Harjo (Crazy Snake) who raised a little hell at one time. It would correspond with the Choctaw work Harcho whch is "crazy". Correct me if I am mistaken. Monty Olsen

Lori.. Whats funny is my gggrandma is on the 1910 Indian Population Census in OK ..now.....why after youre "denied" and it was taboo to be Indian , and there by then ,was nothing to gain..admit you were Indian...????....makes no sense to me !!! what do you think ? deana

Hi list...I was at the OK Historical Society today reading more interviews on my MCRs. Seems to me from alot of the apps I read that if they werent a full blood they didnt get accepted..has anyone else read any interviews and thought that ?....anyways...in one of mine it has a letter from the "acting chairman" to one of my Davis' saying that they did find a "P.Davis" on a roll and if my Davis guy could prove this was his grandpa Paul the commision wanted the proof at once...my question...Ive looked at the Armstrong Roll and didnt see a P.Davis. (he died in 1876 and didnt leave MS/AL Territory)...what other roll would the be talking about ?...The interview was from Henry Davis M.C.2615......There was alot of family on this application. Any ideas or suggestions Id really appreciate !!! deana

---------7832122a766726037832122a76672603 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello list, Harjo name is also among the Seminole. Delorra ---------7832122a766726037832122a76672603 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Forwarded Msg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Forwarded Msg" Content-Description: Forwarded Msg Return-Path: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-zd05.mx.aol.com (rly-zd05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.229]) by air-zd03.mail.aol.com (v88.20) with ESMTP id MAILINZD34-0830173225; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:32:25 2000 Received: from lists5.rootsweb.com (lists5.rootsweb.com [207.40.200.41]) by rly-zd05.mx.aol.com (v88.20) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINZD53-0830173211; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:32:11 -0400 Received: (from slist@localhost) by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.12.4/8.12.4) id g7ULVnLW022220; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:31:49 -0600 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:31:49 -0600 X-Original-Sender: wood_owl@hotmail.com Fri Aug 30 15:31:48 2002 X-Originating-IP: [207.66.52.70] From: "george ann gregory" <wood_owl@hotmail.com> Old-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Meaning of the name "Harjo" Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 21:31:53 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F2487p4WazfPtgTshcS000219f7@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Aug 2002 21:31:53.0764 (UTC) FILETIME=[A8BFFE40:01C2506C] Resent-Message-ID: <Ke3So.A.8aF.FR-b9@lists5.rootsweb.com> To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/15590 X-Loop: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com Harjo is a well-known Creek surname. For example, Joy Harjo(Creek) is a famous poet. I love her poem "She had some horses." Another Harjo (maybe Linda) also publishes. George Ann >From: "Linda" <greyoaks@brightok.net> >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Meaning of the name "Harjo" >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 11:36:48 -0500 > >Harjo means "crazy" in the Creek/Seminole language- >- >Linda- > > > >==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== To subscribe to CHAHTA-L list discussions on history, culture, language. Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes, nothing in the subject line, turn off signatures. Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... ---------7832122a766726037832122a76672603--

You might check the enumerators instructions site for the following: "Color.-It must not be assumed that, where nothing is written in this column, "White" is to be understood. The column is always to be filled. Be particularly careful in reporting the class Mulatto. The word is here generic, and includes quadroons, octoroons, and all persons having any perceptible trace of African blood. Important scientific results depend upon the correct determination of this class in schedules 1 and 2. " The site is at the following: http://www.ipums.umn.edu/~pipums/voliii/tEnumInstr.html then click on 1870 Enumerator Instructions and scroll down til you see it... According to Webster's dictionary, a quadroon is "a person who has one Black grandparent"... There was slavery in colonial times, but as time went by it grew more into primarily African slavery...In 1850 there were still Indians being taken as slaves as well as Africans and mixes that included Indian or African..And there were still intermarriages among Indians, Africans and whites...as there still are today...Any Mixedblood who had(has) Indian blood would be a Native American, whatever their color, features, or other bloodlines in the mix... B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ANGELYN CUNNINGHAM" <angelync@msn.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 9:26 AM Subject: RE: [CHOCTAW-SE] question > In my posting, I did not infer that ALL European names used by slaves were taken from slave owners nor was I talking about marriages in Colonial times. My reference was meant to be in the days of slavery. Owners of slaves did NOT marry the slaves even though children came of their relationship. When the slaves were referred to by name at all, they generally took the surname of the family that 'owned' them. > Mobile Archdiocese records refer to some of the children of Louis LeFleau/LeFleur/LeFlore and "Becca" or "Becky Choctaw" (commonly believed by LeFlore family members to be Rebecca Cravat) as "quarteroons", meaning they were 1/4th Choctaw. There is NO evidence that either Louis or Rebecca had African blood. Both of Louis' parents were of French extraction. Rebecca was the daughter of Nahotima and Jean (John) Cravat(t). Her mother was Shumaka, a Chakchiuma, who assimilated into the Choctaw tribe. There is some disagreement among researchers as to the father of some of Shumaka's children - some say an unknown Choctaw, others a man named Roscoe Cole. Many of the marriages of Europeans and Choctaws were according to Choctaw traditions. No researcher, so far, has come up with marriage licenses for Louis and any of his 3 wives - all "Native Americans". > Angelyn > > ------ Original Message ----- > > From: Barbara Ellison > Sent: Thu, Aug 29, 2002 9:19pm > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] question > The terms Octaroon and Quadroon referred to the amounts of African > blood...And in Colonial times, Indians, Africans and whites intermarried > freely...not only among the indentured servants, but also of free people > with each other and with indentured servants... > Sometimes slaves took the names of slave owners,but those would have been > the first generation imported slaves I'd imagine...then after that their > offspring would continue the name or change it..But as I said, there were > marriages between Indians and Africans, Indians and whites, and Africans and > whites before slavery as we know it happened..So not all european names of > slaves were taken from the slave owners... > Hope that helps.. > B. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ANGELYN CUNNINGHAM" <angelync@msn.com> > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 8:14 PM > Subject: RE: [CHOCTAW-SE] question > > > > Mulatto probably comes from "mulato", Spanish for 'of mixed blood'. > > Didn't slaves take the surnames of the family that 'owned' them? Also, > let's face it, folks, the male plantation owners had sexual 'relations' with > the African women they owned and the offspring of those unions produced > children who used their father's surname. There is, however, another > explanation. In the 1700s, 'whites' marrying Indians had children who were > referred to as, for instance, "quadroon", which meant they had 1/4th degree > of Indian blood. > > Angelyn > > > > ------ Original Message ----- > > > > From: AhSweet1@aol.com > > Sent: Thu, Aug 29, 2002 7:49pm > > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] question > > I have no idea of where 'Mulatto' came from. I was just surprised when I > read > > the census(1860(I think)) in Mississippi and found neighbors to my > > ancestors(Trahern) with the same name but it said they were black. Now > some > > in Alabama with other ancestor's name(DeLoach) says they are 'M'. > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to the > list. Write to me, the listowner, at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Try Rusty Lang's website at > http://www.choctaw-web.com for censuses, genealogy lessons, articles, etc. > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Try Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST pages at http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.html for CHOCTAW Muster Rolls, Orphans lists, censuses, land records, etc. > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHAHTA-L list discussions on history, culture, language. Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes, nothing in the subject line, turn off signatures. > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Harjo means "crazy" in the Creek/Seminole language- - Linda-

Also, the people actually making out the census.....they were not sent like today naturally, were given specific instructions...sometimes you can find out what special instructions were given for each census..but many times they were told maybe one year or one state to only put white or black.....or maybe they could add mulatto, but only on certain occasions were they instructed to place native american and / or Indian.......if one was not black they were white...or if they lived in white neighborhoods they were white and if they lived in black neighborhoods they were black. I have also seen many cases of transcribers ....on the internet ...not finish the microfilm..sometimes Indians were numerated at the bottom of census' and not transcribed......so, if you think someone should be listed and can't find them, go to a library and look at the census yourself... In S.C. Mulatto meant white and Indian blood.......but many census' have been transcribed as black and didn't even use mulatto ( according to the book , S.C. Indians and Indian Traders ) anahee pat ShiningWindStar Holoce Hotvle Kococumpv NATIVE AMERICAN HOME FIRES New members by acceptance only! www.yahoogroups.com/group/NativeAmericanHomeFires --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.384 / Virus Database: 216 - Release Date: 8/21/2002

Dusty, if you go to google, there are several interesting websites re mounds in Sumner Co., TN. Angelyn ------ Original Message ----- From: Dusty Sent: Fri, Aug 30, 2002 10:15am To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] War of 1812 Go to the searchable archives at: http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl and pull op the CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L list. Then type in "War of 1812" and see what comes up. I'm not familiar with the mounds in Tenn. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: <JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 1:26 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Can Anyone Help Me With Term "Captain" > In a message dated 8/29/2002 7:55:57 PM Central Daylight Time, > dustyc@microgear.net writes: > > > > > > John: > > > > Would this name perhaps be "Harjo", which is a fairly common name among the > > Creeks and Cherokees. > > > > If I'm not absolutely senile, I think there is a list of Choctaws that > > served under Jackson in the Battle of New Orleans in our archives somewhere. > > > > dusty > > > > > > Dusty, > > I took a closer look at the name's spelling with a magnifying glass. > It looks like > "Hanjo", possibly it could by "Haujo" but there is no "r" in the name. > > I count 17 names which end in "Hanjo". > > I would be interested in looking at the list that Andrew Jackson had > from the Battle of New Orleans to compare the two and see if these are the > same but I really don't think they are since the one I'm looking at is from 3 > years after the Battle of New Orleans and were issued at a place called Fort > Scott. > > Does anyone know where Fort Scott is located? > > I also came across a very detailed description of a burial mound in > Sumner County, Tennessee, which had a detailed sketch of the mound and which > was near Bledsoe's Lick. Have you ever heard of such a mound? It was with > the Andrew Jackson papers on microfilm that I looked at recently. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== To Unsubscribe: Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures.......

Nothing came up! Angelyn ------ Original Message ----- From: Dusty Sent: Fri, Aug 30, 2002 10:15am To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] War of 1812 Go to the searchable archives at: http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl and pull op the CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L list. Then type in "War of 1812" and see what comes up. I'm not familiar with the mounds in Tenn. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: <JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 1:26 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Can Anyone Help Me With Term "Captain" > In a message dated 8/29/2002 7:55:57 PM Central Daylight Time, > dustyc@microgear.net writes: > > > > > > John: > > > > Would this name perhaps be "Harjo", which is a fairly common name among the > > Creeks and Cherokees. > > > > If I'm not absolutely senile, I think there is a list of Choctaws that > > served under Jackson in the Battle of New Orleans in our archives somewhere. > > > > dusty > > > > > > Dusty, > > I took a closer look at the name's spelling with a magnifying glass. > It looks like > "Hanjo", possibly it could by "Haujo" but there is no "r" in the name. > > I count 17 names which end in "Hanjo". > > I would be interested in looking at the list that Andrew Jackson had > from the Battle of New Orleans to compare the two and see if these are the > same but I really don't think they are since the one I'm looking at is from 3 > years after the Battle of New Orleans and were issued at a place called Fort > Scott. > > Does anyone know where Fort Scott is located? > > I also came across a very detailed description of a burial mound in > Sumner County, Tennessee, which had a detailed sketch of the mound and which > was near Bledsoe's Lick. Have you ever heard of such a mound? It was with > the Andrew Jackson papers on microfilm that I looked at recently. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== To Unsubscribe: Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures.......

Linda" Which language is that...Creek? I know there's got to be a million of them... dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: <Utchika@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 5:08 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Can Anyone Help Me With Term "Captain" > Harjo means "no name". That's why it is so common. Linda Evans > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/chat.htm >

Go to the searchable archives at: http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl and pull op the CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L list. Then type in "War of 1812" and see what comes up. I'm not familiar with the mounds in Tenn. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: <JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 1:26 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Can Anyone Help Me With Term "Captain" > In a message dated 8/29/2002 7:55:57 PM Central Daylight Time, > dustyc@microgear.net writes: > > > > > > John: > > > > Would this name perhaps be "Harjo", which is a fairly common name among the > > Creeks and Cherokees. > > > > If I'm not absolutely senile, I think there is a list of Choctaws that > > served under Jackson in the Battle of New Orleans in our archives somewhere. > > > > dusty > > > > > > Dusty, > > I took a closer look at the name's spelling with a magnifying glass. > It looks like > "Hanjo", possibly it could by "Haujo" but there is no "r" in the name. > > I count 17 names which end in "Hanjo". > > I would be interested in looking at the list that Andrew Jackson had > from the Battle of New Orleans to compare the two and see if these are the > same but I really don't think they are since the one I'm looking at is from 3 > years after the Battle of New Orleans and were issued at a place called Fort > Scott. > > Does anyone know where Fort Scott is located? > > I also came across a very detailed description of a burial mound in > Sumner County, Tennessee, which had a detailed sketch of the mound and which > was near Bledsoe's Lick. Have you ever heard of such a mound? It was with > the Andrew Jackson papers on microfilm that I looked at recently. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com >

P.S. I should have added that some sons of Louis LeFleau/LeFleur/LeFlore did father mulatto children, but, to my knowledge, none of the sons were married to the mothers of those children. I have a typewritten copy of a deposition from Solomon LeFlore who identified his father as Jackson LeFlore and "a yellow woman", 'A Caroline'. He says his mother wasn't a slave, but then says "she was a slave after my father died (Jackson died when Solomon was 10 according to Solomon's testimony). He doesn't know whether they were ever married or not, but I haven't seen any references to Jackson ever marrying. Angelyn ------ Original Message ----- From: ANGELYN CUNNINGHAM Sent: Fri, Aug 30, 2002 9:26am To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: RE: [CHOCTAW-SE] question In my posting, I did not infer that ALL European names used by slaves were taken from slave owners nor was I talking about marriages in Colonial times. My reference was meant to be in the days of slavery. Owners of slaves did NOT marry the slaves even though children came of their relationship. When the slaves were referred to by name at all, they generally took the surname of the family that 'owned' them. Mobile Archdiocese records refer to some of the children of Louis LeFleau/LeFleur/LeFlore and "Becca" or "Becky Choctaw" (commonly believed by LeFlore family members to be Rebecca Cravat) as "quarteroons", meaning they were 1/4th Choctaw. There is NO evidence that either Louis or Rebecca had African blood. Both of Louis' parents were of French extraction. Rebecca was the daughter of Nahotima and Jean (John) Cravat(t). Her mother was Shumaka, a Chakchiuma, who assimilated into the Choctaw tribe. There is some disagreement among researchers as to the father of some of Shumaka's children - some say an unknown Choctaw, others a man named Roscoe Cole. Many of the marriages of Europeans and Choctaws were according to Choctaw traditions. No researcher, so far, has come up with marriage licenses for Louis and any of his 3 wives - all "Native Americans". Angelyn ------ Original Message ----- From: Barbara Ellison Sent: Thu, Aug 29, 2002 9:19pm To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] question The terms Octaroon and Quadroon referred to the amounts of African blood...And in Colonial times, Indians, Africans and whites intermarried freely...not only among the indentured servants, but also of free people with each other and with indentured servants... Sometimes slaves took the names of slave owners,but those would have been the first generation imported slaves I'd imagine...then after that their offspring would continue the name or change it..But as I said, there were marriages between Indians and Africans, Indians and whites, and Africans and whites before slavery as we know it happened..So not all european names of slaves were taken from the slave owners... Hope that helps.. B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ANGELYN CUNNINGHAM" <angelync@msn.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 8:14 PM Subject: RE: [CHOCTAW-SE] question > Mulatto probably comes from "mulato", Spanish for 'of mixed blood'. > Didn't slaves take the surnames of the family that 'owned' them? Also, let's face it, folks, the male plantation owners had sexual 'relations' with the African women they owned and the offspring of those unions produced children who used their father's surname. There is, however, another explanation. In the 1700s, 'whites' marrying Indians had children who were referred to as, for instance, "quadroon", which meant they had 1/4th degree of Indian blood. > Angelyn > > ------ Original Message ----- > > From: AhSweet1@aol.com > Sent: Thu, Aug 29, 2002 7:49pm > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] question > I have no idea of where 'Mulatto' came from. I was just surprised when I read > the census(1860(I think)) in Mississippi and found neighbors to my > ancestors(Trahern) with the same name but it said they were black. Now some > in Alabama with other ancestor's name(DeLoach) says they are 'M'. > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to the list. Write to me, the listowner, at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Try Rusty Lang's website at http://www.choctaw-web.com for censuses, genealogy lessons, articles, etc. > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== Try Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST pages at http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.html for CHOCTAW Muster Rolls, Orphans lists, censuses, land records, etc. ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== To subscribe to CHAHTA-L list discussions on history, culture, language. 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