This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/4gC.2ACE/945.2 Message Board Post: Check the NARA for the Ancestors Dawes Roll Number. Also if they were in OK for the 1910 Census the Indians were enumerated at the end of each district in "Indian Population" It gives lots of info there. BTW while looking through the 1910 for my husband's Choctaw Ancestors, I remember seeing the surname COX in Haskell County, OK.

Your piece was very interesting, but since the end of it was cut off at the following place shown below, I hope you will copy the latter part and forward it on to me. Thanks, Susan Now how does the U.S.reward this loyalty and bravery? Well, with allottment, removal and termination. All of these things done to African-Americans and the American Indian, not to mention other groups,would have been violations of the "genocide Treaty" using Raphael Lemkin's definition of genocide. That is why the U.S.

Halito All: I have much today to discuss so I must do it in several postings as it covers disparate topics. I cannot resist the discussion about the treatment of our ancestors. Now I know this is not appropriate so I will only begin on this site and will transfer the debate to the other list if anyone chooses. However, our people are in terrible distress and danger not seen since the "Termination Period". Now I am going to disagree with people who have been quite helpful to others. Please don't take this personally, because it isn't. I only do this because I think it is very important and we must keep informed. I will not bring it up or discuss it on this site again. We must remember that the history books are written by Euro-Americans for consumption by Euro-Americans and the indoctrination of immigrants, children and other races into the glories of Western thought, history and superiority. In other words, with an Euro-centric and/or Euro-Americentric bias. Secondly, I am very happy to let the past go, if there were only some remorse on the part of the government, powerful and wealthy individuals as well as the numerous multi-national corporations who continue to perpetrate this genocide against the American Indian. If you don't believe this, lets just take a look at recent and current history. First let me begin with a person by the name of Raphael Lemkin. Raphael Lemkin was hired by the Carnegie Foundation to study war crimes in the "Third Reich" and to propose international legal solutions. He is also the person who invented the term "genocide". Lemkin gave the term genocide a 5-part definition, which I don't remember verbatim, but I certainly do remember all of the main elements. Genocide is the occupation and forced removal of sovereignty and/or political control and/or power from a people, which might also include changing the national language, destroying cultural institutions and churches, etc. It is the forced removal of a people from their land. It is the use of forced labor and/or labor under very dangerous conditions and very poor wages. It is the causing of the population of a people to decrease in its ability to reproduce. It is the destruction of their economy. Finally, it is extermination. You didn't have to have all of these things occurring to have genocide. The Nazis might have some people in slave labor and starved them, thereby reducing their ability to reproduce and slowly exterminating them; while with other groups they may have occupied their country, eliminated sovereignty, changed the national language, etc. Although the U.S. led the way for the "genocide Convention" it fought any passage of the treaty every step of the way. First, along with the U.S.S.R. and China the U.S. eliminated various parts of the genocide definition until it became virtually useless. When the various proposals were sent to Capital Hill for study, various senators and congressman objected against having Raphael Lemkin testify, because he wasn't white and was Jewish. An internationally renouned jurist and the person who invented the term genocide was prevented from testifying in our legislature because of anti-semitism. After years of fighting this treaty, making the definition useless and building in protections for itself that no other country has, and after considerable world condemnation, the U.S.became the last country to sign the treaty in the 1980s, very reluctantly I might add. Now why might the U.S. do this? Well in the 1940s in the south African-Americans were hanging from trees like"strange fruit" to borrow a line from a song made famous by Billie Holliday. The African-American also could not vote in the south. The American Indian after being drafted into service in one war without the benefit of citizenship, but yet volunteered at a higher rate than the general population in all of the wars of the 20th Century and had a better record than any other group, i.e. desertion, etc., then was forced to accept U.S. citizenship with the passage of the American Indian Citizenship Act. Now how does the U.S.reward this loyalty and bravery? Well, with allottment, removal and termination. All of these things done to African-Americans and the American Indian, not to mention other groups,would have been violations of the "genocide Treaty" using Raphael Lemkin's definition of genocide. That is why the U.S. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com

Panyousas sounds vaguely Kaskaskia. There were several Frenchmen, originally from Quebec, who were soldiers or traders at Kaskaskia in the Illinois Country who married Kaskaskia women. Some of these moved to Mobile. You might double-check the records on Kaskaskia. Ron

Wow!!! Talk about generalization ....Slavery is a wretched practice, no matter WHO is/was responsible. We really need to accept that not all of our forefathers were kind, compassionate souls, just as all Europeans were not evil people... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Ellison" <greybird7@pisp.net> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 10:16 AM Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] christian slavers > So all those christians who were in the slaving business were > condemned...What was their punishment? Doesn't seem to have stopped them > from continuing... > You can defend the europeans all you want but it doesn't change the fact > that they treated those who were not like themselves in color and religion > as tho they were not human...Not so among the Indians who captured each > other..They never regarded the captives as animals.. > B. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com> > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 3:22 AM > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Harper - Which SixTown location & other questions > > > > In a message dated 8/30/2002 8:25:43 AM Central Daylight Time, > > greybird7@pisp.net writes: > > > > > > > > > > Slavery among the Indians BY Indians was not the same as slavery by > > > europeans...before europeans came to our country, Indians would capture > > > women and/or children from other Tribes and would make them part of > their > > > Tribe...they would become family.. > > > > > > > The year 1521 was a watershed year in the history of the world. In 1521, > > Cortez and the Spanish conquered the Aztecs and the Spanish conquered the > > "Indians" of the Phillipines. > > I don't know much about the history of the Spanish conquest of the > > Phllipines except that Gregory XIV, in 1591, issued a very strong > > condemnation of any Christian who made slaves of the "Indians" of the > > Phillipines and based his condemnation on the previous condemnations by > Paul > > III against making slaves of the Indians of the New World and Eugenio IV > > against making slaves of the Canary Islanders. > > I know a little more about the Spanish Conquest of the Aztecs of > > Mexico simply because it is closer to home and not because I've studied it > at > > very great length. > > Cortez could not have accomplished what he did with the limited > number > > of men he had had it not been for the help of many Indians from tribes in > > Mexico that had been subjugated by the Aztecs. These subjegated tribes so > > despised their Aztec "family" in which they were slaves of the Aztecs that > > they gladly helped Cortez overthrow the Aztec rulers under the Emperor > > Montezuma II who became emperor in 1503. > > If slavery amongst Indians was like a "family" then there was > nothing > > for the subjegated tribes of the Aztec Empire to gain by helping Cortez > > overthrow the Aztecs especially when even one of Cortez' own ship captains > > had mutinied in the midst of the fight against the Aztecs and Cortez had > to > > subdue his own people before continuing the fight. > > Clearly slavery amongst Indians was not as benign as you are making > it > > out to be at the time of Columbus' arrival and after his arrival. > > The Creeks, apparently, who had conflicts with the Choctaw, often > sold > > them into slavery to Europeans after they captured them in battle or in > raids. > > And the story of Shumaka in which her entire tribe was wiped out by > > the Choctaws and Chickasaws and she and others were captured and made > members > > of the tribes who captured them in the 1700's tells a much darker side to > > slavery amongst Indians than you are admitting to. > > > > John Craven > > New Orleans > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Try Rusty Lang's website at > http://www.choctaw-web.com for censuses, genealogy lessons, articles, etc. > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to the list. Write to me, the listowner, at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > >

So all those christians who were in the slaving business were condemned...What was their punishment? Doesn't seem to have stopped them from continuing... You can defend the europeans all you want but it doesn't change the fact that they treated those who were not like themselves in color and religion as tho they were not human...Not so among the Indians who captured each other..They never regarded the captives as animals.. B. ----- Original Message ----- From: <JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 3:22 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Harper - Which SixTown location & other questions > In a message dated 8/30/2002 8:25:43 AM Central Daylight Time, > greybird7@pisp.net writes: > > > > > > Slavery among the Indians BY Indians was not the same as slavery by > > europeans...before europeans came to our country, Indians would capture > > women and/or children from other Tribes and would make them part of their > > Tribe...they would become family.. > > > > The year 1521 was a watershed year in the history of the world. In 1521, > Cortez and the Spanish conquered the Aztecs and the Spanish conquered the > "Indians" of the Phillipines. > I don't know much about the history of the Spanish conquest of the > Phllipines except that Gregory XIV, in 1591, issued a very strong > condemnation of any Christian who made slaves of the "Indians" of the > Phillipines and based his condemnation on the previous condemnations by Paul > III against making slaves of the Indians of the New World and Eugenio IV > against making slaves of the Canary Islanders. > I know a little more about the Spanish Conquest of the Aztecs of > Mexico simply because it is closer to home and not because I've studied it at > very great length. > Cortez could not have accomplished what he did with the limited number > of men he had had it not been for the help of many Indians from tribes in > Mexico that had been subjugated by the Aztecs. These subjegated tribes so > despised their Aztec "family" in which they were slaves of the Aztecs that > they gladly helped Cortez overthrow the Aztec rulers under the Emperor > Montezuma II who became emperor in 1503. > If slavery amongst Indians was like a "family" then there was nothing > for the subjegated tribes of the Aztec Empire to gain by helping Cortez > overthrow the Aztecs especially when even one of Cortez' own ship captains > had mutinied in the midst of the fight against the Aztecs and Cortez had to > subdue his own people before continuing the fight. > Clearly slavery amongst Indians was not as benign as you are making it > out to be at the time of Columbus' arrival and after his arrival. > The Creeks, apparently, who had conflicts with the Choctaw, often sold > them into slavery to Europeans after they captured them in battle or in raids. > And the story of Shumaka in which her entire tribe was wiped out by > the Choctaws and Chickasaws and she and others were captured and made members > of the tribes who captured them in the 1700's tells a much darker side to > slavery amongst Indians than you are admitting to. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Try Rusty Lang's website at http://www.choctaw-web.com for censuses, genealogy lessons, articles, etc. > >

In a message dated 8/31/2002 7:22:51 AM Central Daylight Time, TSevcik@webtv.net writes: > http://www.cherokee.org/TribalGovernment/ChiefPage.asp?ID=08 > > I felt it very important to support this bill and I hope that each and everyone on this list will do the same. I took the time to send my letter immediately. Don't put it off until later. Do it now while it is fresh in your mind. Lori

In a message dated 8/30/02 10:47:49 PM Central Daylight Time, JeanieAllenDavis@aol.com writes: > Jeanie Davis > I just look at the past as there is nothing we can do about it, we can just try to make the present and future better. I am in Oklahoma and people say 'everyone in Oklahoma has some Indian blood' - I just say 'yes, I sure do!'. Oklahoma City just had a new dome put on our capital building and one top of it was put a beautiful statue of an Indian, representing every tribe of Indian, not just a specific one. He was designed by one of our state senators - an Indian!!!!!!

Deana: I agree wholeheartedly. They were proud to be Choctaw and passed that proudness down from generation to generation. Even though my gg grandmother died in the 1940s I never knew her as I lived in Chicago and was very young. However, those relatives that lived in Shubuta and the surrounding areas knew her and listened to her tell about her ancestry, mainly what her mother had told her. Her dad was Captain John, a full Choctaw. He died when she was 1-1/2 years old. Knowing how young kids are, some of her grandchildren and great grandchildren wanted to braid her long hair. She wouldn't let them, saying it was a sin to braid the hair. She would just wrap it around her head. Everyone in the family wants to know more about our Choctaw ancestry. I am proud to research and present my findings to them. Lori

In a message dated 8/30/2002 10:11:05 PM Central Daylight Time, seanps@george.net writes: > > Hachi-pisa-l'achi-ke > --Sean > > Hello Sean, the name I am looking at on these discharge papers from 1818 is "Hanjo" not "Harjo" as in Captain Powas Hanjo. Do you have any info about the name "Hanjo"? John Craven New Orleans

--WebTV-Mail-18926-424 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit i sure hope this is appropriate to send on this list......i am cherokee and choctaw....and i think this is extemely important.....the gov't is trying to take away the trusted land....please read and support this issue.. hope this is appropirate dusty..if not i apologize...but we all have to stand together...it will affect all native americans in the future if this bill passes yakote teressa --WebTV-Mail-18926-424 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from smtpin-2203.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.213.133) by storefull-2318.public.lawson.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INFOSERVER.cherokee.org (unknown [65.64.61.165]) by smtpin-2203.public.lawson.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with ESMTP id 0D2B5FE4A; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INFOSERVER (infoserver.cherokee.org [172.16.1.9]) by INFOSERVER.cherokee.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61253U3000L300S0V35) with SMTP id org for <newsletter@cherokee.org>; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:19:39 -0500 Received: FROM TONIA8100 BY INFOSERVER ; Fri Aug 30 17:19:30 2002 -0500 Reply-To: <CherokeeLink@cherokee.org> Reply-To: webmaster@cherokee.org From: "Cherokee Link Newsletter" <CherokeeLink@cherokee.org> To: "Subscriptions" <newsletter@cherokee.org> Subject: Correction - From the Chief: Please support a bill in Congress... Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:22:46 -0500 Organization: Cherokee Nation Message-ID: <002601c25073$cabcff00$923d4041@cnmain.cherokee.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal Cherokee Link Newsletter ************************** Correction - I forgot the link to more info on the Bill in Congress... http://www.cherokee.org/TribalGovernment/ChiefPage.asp?ID=08 Cherokee Link Newsletter ************************** For The New HTML Format of the Newsletter: (WebTV and AOL recommended usage) http://www.cherokee.org/Messages/CherokeeLink/2002/Letter8-30-02.htm <BR>AOL - <A HREF="http://www.cherokee.org/Messages/CherokeeLink/2002/Letter8-30-02.h tm">8-30-02 Newsletter</A> ------------------------------------------------------------ Osiyo, Dear Cherokee Citizen or Friend, Today I am asking you to support a bill in Congress that will protect the restricted and trust land owned by individual Indians in eastern Oklahoma. This bill is called the Five Nations Indian Land Reform Act and it has already passed the U.S. House of Representatives by a unanimous vote. Now it is time for the U.S. Senate to act. Please follow the link below. With just a couple of minutes of effort on your part, you can help Indian families protect their restricted land allotments. By sending Senator Inhofe an email with this message, you are encouraging him to make the passage of this non-controversial bill a priority. This small effort will help keep Indian families from losing their restricted and trust land to adverse possession. Please take the time to read the letter, follow the link, and send it on the Senator Inhofe. http://www.cherokee.org/TribalGovernment/ChiefPage.asp?ID=08 With your help, the Senator will have an inbox full of thousands of messages from Cherokee people who are interested in protecting the rights of Native American landowners. Our goal is to have each of you to email the Senator before September 5. This bill has the unanimous support of the Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole and Muscogee (Creek) Nations. Please add your support as well by forwarding the following message. Wado, Chadwick "Corntassel" Smith Principal Chief Wado, CherokeeLink@cherokee.org ------------------------------------------------------------ TOC: Cherokee Nation News Cherokee Heritage Center News Local Area Cultural Tidbits Messenger Contact Info Scholarships & Internships ------------------------------------------------------------ Did you miss a newsletter? Come and visit our Newsletter Archive. http://www.cherokee.org/Messages/CherokeeLink/2002/Archives2002.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ So how are we coming along with the using the Cherokee font? Are you ready for another lesson? 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If you miss them on the main page, you can find them at: http://www.cherokee.org/NewsArchives/NewsArchives.asp Cherokee Nation Hosts Eastern Band for Joint Council Meeting: 8/29/02 C Cherokee Nation The Cherokee Nation will host the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians in a Joint Council Meeting Friday, August 30. http://www.cherokee.org/NewsArchives/Archives2002/8-02-35.htm 80,000 Expected for 50th Cherokee National Holiday: 8/29/02 C Cherokee Nation The Cherokee Nation has planned an unprecedented celebration to commemorate the 50th Cherokee National Holiday, which will take place August 30-September 1 in Tahlequah. http://www.cherokee.org/NewsArchives/Archives2002/8-02-34.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ ************************* *** Cherokee Heritage *** ***** Center News ******* ************************* http://www.cherokeeheritage.org/ C Cherokee Heritage Center -- 8/29/02 Beatlemania is Coming to Tahlequah Proving that Beatlemania is still alive, four American musicians tour the world in a group known as "Yesterday - A Tribute to the Beatles." http://www.cherokee.org/NewsArchives/HeritageCenter/8-02-15.htm C Cherokee Heritage Center -- 8/29/02 "CHEROKEE" BOOK LAUNCHED DURING 50TH ANNUAL CHEROKEE NATIONAL HOLIDAY AT THE CHEROKEE HERITAGE CENTER A brand new book entitled "Cherokee" will launch from the Cherokee Heritage Center with a book signing on Saturday, August 31 from 2 to 5 p.m. http://www.cherokee.org/NewsArchives/HeritageCenter/8-02-14.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ ****************** *** Local Area *** ****************** Come check out the Community Calendar: http://www.cherokee.org/Calendar/Calendar.asp ------------------------------------------------------------ ************************** **** Cultural Tidbits **** ************************** Spiritual Views and Traditions of the Cherokee As reported by Rev. Buttrick and John Howard Payne in 1835 The world was created at the time of the first new moon in autumn, with the fruits all ripe. The first new moon in autumn is therefore the great new moon, or nu-ta-te-qua and with it the year commences, as regards the feasts of new moons, though the first new moon is spring begins the year with regard to the feast of first fruits, etc., because then the fruits begin to come forward. INFORMANT: Yu-wi-yo-ka Alexander Longe's Cherokee informant. in 1725, stated that the Green Corn Ceremony MUST take place, and MUST observe the sacrifice of the first fruits, and the priests' prayer to God, for if we do not remember him in thanksgiving, he will not remember us. *Note: Cultural information may vary from clan to clan, location to location, family to family, and from differing opinions and experiences. 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In a message dated 8/30/2002 10:19:47 AM Central Daylight Time, dustyc@microgear.net writes: > > > Go to the searchable archives at: > > http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > > and pull op the CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L list. Then type in "War of 1812" and > see what comes up. > > I'm not familiar with the mounds in Tenn. > > dusty > Thanks, Dusty. John Craven New Orleans

In a message dated 8/30/2002 8:25:43 AM Central Daylight Time, greybird7@pisp.net writes: > > Slavery among the Indians BY Indians was not the same as slavery by > europeans...before europeans came to our country, Indians would capture > women and/or children from other Tribes and would make them part of their > Tribe...they would become family.. > The year 1521 was a watershed year in the history of the world. In 1521, Cortez and the Spanish conquered the Aztecs and the Spanish conquered the "Indians" of the Phillipines. I don't know much about the history of the Spanish conquest of the Phllipines except that Gregory XIV, in 1591, issued a very strong condemnation of any Christian who made slaves of the "Indians" of the Phillipines and based his condemnation on the previous condemnations by Paul III against making slaves of the Indians of the New World and Eugenio IV against making slaves of the Canary Islanders. I know a little more about the Spanish Conquest of the Aztecs of Mexico simply because it is closer to home and not because I've studied it at very great length. Cortez could not have accomplished what he did with the limited number of men he had had it not been for the help of many Indians from tribes in Mexico that had been subjugated by the Aztecs. These subjegated tribes so despised their Aztec "family" in which they were slaves of the Aztecs that they gladly helped Cortez overthrow the Aztec rulers under the Emperor Montezuma II who became emperor in 1503. If slavery amongst Indians was like a "family" then there was nothing for the subjegated tribes of the Aztec Empire to gain by helping Cortez overthrow the Aztecs especially when even one of Cortez' own ship captains had mutinied in the midst of the fight against the Aztecs and Cortez had to subdue his own people before continuing the fight. Clearly slavery amongst Indians was not as benign as you are making it out to be at the time of Columbus' arrival and after his arrival. The Creeks, apparently, who had conflicts with the Choctaw, often sold them into slavery to Europeans after they captured them in battle or in raids. And the story of Shumaka in which her entire tribe was wiped out by the Choctaws and Chickasaws and she and others were captured and made members of the tribes who captured them in the 1700's tells a much darker side to slavery amongst Indians than you are admitting to. John Craven New Orleans

In a message dated 8/30/2002 5:09:33 AM Central Daylight Time, Utchika@aol.com writes: > Harjo means "no name". That's why it is so common. Linda Evans > > Thanks, Linda, however, the name I see is spelt "Hanjo" not "Harjo". Is there a meaning for "Hanjo"? John Craven New Orleans

In a message dated 8/30/2002 4:32:23 PM Central Daylight Time, wood_owl@hotmail.com writes: > > Harjo is a well-known Creek surname. For example, Joy Harjo(Creek) is a > famous poet. I love her poem "She had some horses." Another Harjo (maybe > Linda) also publishes. > > George Ann > > George Ann, I've looked very closely at the names on the discharge list and none of them seem to be spelled "Harjo". They all look like they are spelled "Hanjo". Now it was signed by Andrew Jackson but as to whether he was the one who wrote up the list or whether it was the captain of the company who made up the list and who, as best as I can make it out, was named "Powas Hanjo", is something I just don't know about. I suspect it waa the captain since it involved many long Indian names. I don't see any that look like they are Choctaw names but at the same time I can't be certain that they aren't Choctaw names. Maybe they are Chickasaw names. They might even be Creek names since some Creeks fought on the side of America against the British but I just don't know. Have you ever encountered the name "Powas Hanjo"? John Craven New Orleans

Carol, I doubt that you would offend anyone, as that is the term used to identify a child of white/black parents. I have not seen it abbreviated, but rather spelled out on some of our families census reports. Jeanie Davis

Yes, it is Creek. I saw an article in the Tulsa World on the name Harjo and it stated that it meant "no name". it came about because as they were registering the Creeks, so many of them had no last name that they assigned the name Harjo to these people. Pity, but true. That's why there are so many Creek Harjos.

I got my great grandmother's enrollment packet from the archives in Texas but there was nothing in it that showed she was Choctaw. What did they do then? She was on the Dawe's Rolls.

Since I have a number of good friends among the Poarch Creek, I thought I'd offer a little extra info... "Harjo" is the anglicized version of the Muskogee/Seminole word that is often translated as "crazy," although meaning "dancing" depending on context. As in Choctaw, there is no "r" sound in these languages and, similar to the Choctaw usage of "v" for the short "u" sound, the letter "c" is used to indicate the "ch" sound. The "traditional" spelling (inasmuch as any written version can be traditional to these languages) would be "haco," and it is often used in names. I have a good friend named Loca Haco ("crazy turtle" or "dancing turtle"-- both are appropriate, I assure you) and, due to my reliable involvement with their Stomp Grounds, I was recently honored with a name-- Catv Haco (if you remember how to read the "c" and the "v," I'm sure everyone can figure that one out). BTW, as the resident professional librarian (or at least one of them) I highly recommend both Joy and Linda Harjo's writing. Hachi-pisa-l'achi-ke --Sean

Thank you for explaining the MCR #s I have found some of my family I think with a MCR# I did not know what they were. Skydancer ----- Original Message ----- From: Lori0602h@aol.com To: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] MS Choctaw questions Deana: I agree with you that if an person who was interviewed by the Commission could not prove full Choctaw, their enrollment application was denied. I further believe that if the person did not know whether their parent(s), ancestors, etc. signed the Dancing Rabbit Treaty (Article 14), their enrollment application was also denied. I came to these conclusions from reading my great grandfather's, great great grandmother's, great great great grandmother's and other relatives' enrollment case files (MCR #s). Interestingly, they came to the interview with an attorney. The attorney asked to submit proof that they were Choctaw. However, none of the attorney's papers were included in the record and their applications were denied. Lori Lori ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com