Is the Dawes Roll the same as NARA's Choctaw by Birth? This can be so confusing! Thanks again, Lori SandyM Folk and Folk Arts Producers & Organizations: ** GrantWriting at Reasonable Costs ** email: gladesheritage@mindspring.com Or Call: 561-924-7955 Sandy Mercer ----- Original Message ----- From: <Lori0602h@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Bounds family name > Sandy: > > Don't worry about hanging back. Say what you feel is in your heart and keep > moving on. I found your comments quite interesting. > > As for your Gilliam Bounds not being on the Dawes Rolls, you might want to > look at the "rejected" files. I found my ancestors there even though I know > they were Choctaw. I obtained the case file numbers and ordered the case > files. It was such interesting reading. So, be sure to check the rejected > files. > > Good luck. > > Lori > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to the list. Write to me, the listowner, at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com >

Thanks, Dusty...JL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:05 AM Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] FROM LISTOWNER > People - we're drifting again...PLEASE confine your postings to the > CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST list to CHOCTAW GENEALOGY. > > For discussions of culture, history, racism, etc, let's take it to the > CHAHTA-L list. > > dusty > List Admin. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com> > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 12:34 AM > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] slavery > > > > In a message dated 9/1/2002 11:04:29 AM Central Daylight Time, > > wood_owl@hotmail.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > Richard, according to Hitler, he based his racial policies on those of > the > > > US. If anyone is interested in this topic, I have a book coming out in > the > > > next several months entitled Holocaust of Native America: An > Introduction. > > > > > > > > > > The father of Modern Society and the one who, either directly or > indirectly, > > inspired Hitler's racial policies the most, was Margaret Sanger, one of > the > > most diabolically evil human beings ever to walk the face of the earth. > But > > don't take my word for it. > > Look up her writings in the Journal of the American Birth Control League > from > > the early 1900's. Look no further than one of her most cherished > projects, > > "The Negroe Project" designed to eliminate the Negroe race. Many of her > > fellow eugenicists from the early 1900's, and later, such as Lothrop > > Stoddard, were ardent supporters of Adolph Hitler, as was she. She was > the > > founder of Planned Parenthood. The KKK and David Duke and others have > > absolutely nothing on her where racial hatred is concerned. She could > teach > > them a lot. > > > > But again don't take my word on it. There is an excellent book > > written by Elasah Drogin of New Hope, Kentucky, entitled "Margaret Sanger: > > Father of Modern Society." first published in 1979. Elasah Drogin was a > > Jewish woman who converted to Christianity and she did an excellent job of > > researching her subject. The book is available from New Hope > Publications, > > New Hope, Kentucky 40052 (270-325-3061) for a very reasonable price of > $6.00. > > It's had several printings since it was first published in 1979. It is > 127 > > pages long and one of the most powerful and compelling books that you will > > ever read. > > > > John Craven > > New Orleans > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > To Unsubscribe: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Try Rusty Lang's website at http://www.choctaw-web.com for censuses, genealogy lessons, articles, etc. > >

Thanks, Dusty. Angelyn ------ Original Message ----- From: Dusty Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2002 11:15am To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] MS Choctaw questions Angelyn: In Miss. I have seen it also spelled "Yak-Koh-Kih". With a spoken language, there seems to be no "correct" way to spell phonetically. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: ANGELYN CUNNINGHAM <angelync@msn.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 11:55 AM Subject: RE: [CHOCTAW-SE] MS Choctaw questions > Is the correct spelling "Yakoke" or "Yokoke"? > Thanks, > Angelyn > > ------ Original Message ----- > > From: Lori0602h@aol.com > Sent: Mon, Sep 2, 2002 11:53am > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] MS Choctaw questions > Yokoke, Dusty, for reminding us of what the "Dawes Rolls" really mean. > > Lori > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > DON'T FORGET OUR ARCHIVES. Got a question? Looking for ancestor's name? Check our archives at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Try Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST pages at http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.html for CHOCTAW Muster Rolls, Orphans lists, censuses, land records, etc. > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== DON'T FORGET OUR ARCHIVES. Got a question? Looking for ancestor's name? Check our archives at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST

THANK YOU, DUSTY. I was deleting the 'slavery issue' mail without even reading it! Angelyn ------ Original Message ----- From: Dusty Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2002 11:05am To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] FROM LISTOWNER People - we're drifting again...PLEASE confine your postings to the CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST list to CHOCTAW GENEALOGY. For discussions of culture, history, racism, etc, let's take it to the CHAHTA-L list. dusty List Admin. ----- Original Message ----- From: <JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 12:34 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] slavery > In a message dated 9/1/2002 11:04:29 AM Central Daylight Time, > wood_owl@hotmail.com writes: > > > > > > Richard, according to Hitler, he based his racial policies on those of the > > US. If anyone is interested in this topic, I have a book coming out in the > > next several months entitled Holocaust of Native America: An Introduction. > > > > > > The father of Modern Society and the one who, either directly or indirectly, > inspired Hitler's racial policies the most, was Margaret Sanger, one of the > most diabolically evil human beings ever to walk the face of the earth. But > don't take my word for it. > Look up her writings in the Journal of the American Birth Control League from > the early 1900's. Look no further than one of her most cherished projects, > "The Negroe Project" designed to eliminate the Negroe race. Many of her > fellow eugenicists from the early 1900's, and later, such as Lothrop > Stoddard, were ardent supporters of Adolph Hitler, as was she. She was the > founder of Planned Parenthood. The KKK and David Duke and others have > absolutely nothing on her where racial hatred is concerned. She could teach > them a lot. > > But again don't take my word on it. There is an excellent book > written by Elasah Drogin of New Hope, Kentucky, entitled "Margaret Sanger: > Father of Modern Society." first published in 1979. Elasah Drogin was a > Jewish woman who converted to Christianity and she did an excellent job of > researching her subject. The book is available from New Hope Publications, > New Hope, Kentucky 40052 (270-325-3061) for a very reasonable price of $6.00. > It's had several printings since it was first published in 1979. It is 127 > pages long and one of the most powerful and compelling books that you will > ever read. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== Need more CHOCTAW information?? Try Rusty Lang's website at http://www.choctaw-web.com for censuses, genealogy lessons, articles, etc.

Sandy: I did some research on the BOUNDS family in Mississippi a few years back for someone else. As I recall there were alot of them in Pearl River, Mss. where the Tribal Headquarters is. Unfortunately, all my records on that surname have been long since deleted. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: okeefolkie <okeefolkie@mindspring.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 12:53 PM Subject: [CHOCTAW-SE] Bounds family name > Lori and Barbara, thanks for your kind words. I have been hanging back > because > I don't know if I really belong on this list, my heritage being very cloudy. > Here is a message I composed a few days ago and was kinda shy about sending: > > Hi - I'm new to the list, and very new to geneology. My mother's folks came > from Miss, and a family rumor is that we have a Native American forebear > (Indian? I'm > not sure of the PC, but the Seminole here in S. Fla. use the term "Indian"). > > The key person seems to be of the name "Bounds." I have found some Bounds' > in one of the rolls NARA has, under "Choctaw by Birth," and "C. by > Marriage," and I am fairly sure that my gggrandfather was Gilliam Bounds, m > to "Lizzie," no maiden name, with 4 sons, Henry, John, Wilke, and Gilliam; > and 2 daughters, Sally and Elizabeth. Gilliam is not one of the first names > in the NARA rolls. No definite indication of where he was born/lived. > > Elizabeth Bounds m. William Jefferson Smith, my ggrandfather, probably in > Hancock County, Miss., so I'm hoping that is where the Bounds' lived, to > keep it simple. Elizabeth died in 1924. > That is every bit of information I can glean so far. > > I hope I will not offend anyone, but are there physical characteristics that > one can use to "pin down" genetic heritage? My grandfather, James Woodard > Smith, had very prominent cheekbones, straight black hair, and his son, my > uncle, has often been asked if he is Native, or even of Aisian descent. On > the other hand, my mother's features were more Celtic - as a child I always > thought she looked like Maureen O'Hara - auburn hair, those cheekbones, and > freckles. Her brother, my uncle, is dark, short of stature, and there is an > old > b&w photo of him taken during the Korean War that I thought at first was a > Korean > soldier, when I was a child. > > So, who knows? It is wonderful to think that I am a mixture of many > different parts of the human race -- it makes one much more interesting, I > think! But I'd still like to know... > > Thanks for any help any of you can give me. > > SandyM > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHAHTA-L list discussions on history, culture, language. Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes, nothing in the subject line, turn off signatures. > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Angelyn: In Miss. I have seen it also spelled "Yak-Koh-Kih". With a spoken language, there seems to be no "correct" way to spell phonetically. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: ANGELYN CUNNINGHAM <angelync@msn.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 11:55 AM Subject: RE: [CHOCTAW-SE] MS Choctaw questions > Is the correct spelling "Yakoke" or "Yokoke"? > Thanks, > Angelyn > > ------ Original Message ----- > > From: Lori0602h@aol.com > Sent: Mon, Sep 2, 2002 11:53am > To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] MS Choctaw questions > Yokoke, Dusty, for reminding us of what the "Dawes Rolls" really mean. > > Lori > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > DON'T FORGET OUR ARCHIVES. Got a question? Looking for ancestor's name? Check our archives at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Try Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST pages at http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.html for CHOCTAW Muster Rolls, Orphans lists, censuses, land records, etc. >

I hope all of you will like the new pages I just added they are from 63rd Congress, 2d Session -- Senate Document No. 478 I have built some pages with the information on the tribes listed separately. Maybe this will help some of you who can't find your missing ancestors on the rolls. http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/enroll/entitled.htm I have also added a Surname listing to the query pages, just click on the surname to go to the page with the name you are interested in reading. http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/queries/surmscho.htm Judy

People - we're drifting again...PLEASE confine your postings to the CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST list to CHOCTAW GENEALOGY. For discussions of culture, history, racism, etc, let's take it to the CHAHTA-L list. dusty List Admin. ----- Original Message ----- From: <JohnnyMikeCraven@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 12:34 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] slavery > In a message dated 9/1/2002 11:04:29 AM Central Daylight Time, > wood_owl@hotmail.com writes: > > > > > > Richard, according to Hitler, he based his racial policies on those of the > > US. If anyone is interested in this topic, I have a book coming out in the > > next several months entitled Holocaust of Native America: An Introduction. > > > > > > The father of Modern Society and the one who, either directly or indirectly, > inspired Hitler's racial policies the most, was Margaret Sanger, one of the > most diabolically evil human beings ever to walk the face of the earth. But > don't take my word for it. > Look up her writings in the Journal of the American Birth Control League from > the early 1900's. Look no further than one of her most cherished projects, > "The Negroe Project" designed to eliminate the Negroe race. Many of her > fellow eugenicists from the early 1900's, and later, such as Lothrop > Stoddard, were ardent supporters of Adolph Hitler, as was she. She was the > founder of Planned Parenthood. The KKK and David Duke and others have > absolutely nothing on her where racial hatred is concerned. She could teach > them a lot. > > But again don't take my word on it. There is an excellent book > written by Elasah Drogin of New Hope, Kentucky, entitled "Margaret Sanger: > Father of Modern Society." first published in 1979. Elasah Drogin was a > Jewish woman who converted to Christianity and she did an excellent job of > researching her subject. The book is available from New Hope Publications, > New Hope, Kentucky 40052 (270-325-3061) for a very reasonable price of $6.00. > It's had several printings since it was first published in 1979. It is 127 > pages long and one of the most powerful and compelling books that you will > ever read. > > John Craven > New Orleans > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Thank you, Elkdreamer. Angelyn ------ Original Message ----- From: ElkDremr@aol.com Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2002 6:27am To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] MS Choctaw questions Yakoke is the correct spelling Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== Need more CHOCTAW information. Try Judy White's NATIVE AMERICAN RESOURCE CENTER at http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, newsletters, lookups, articles, etc.

Yokoke/Yakoke! I don't want to offend and am trying to learn the language. I appreciate your comment. Guess it can be spelled either way. Most important is that everyone understands what it means. Lori

Right...it's clear either spelling means thank you.. B. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Lori0602h@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] MS Choctaw questions > Yokoke/Yakoke! > > I don't want to offend and am trying to learn the language. I appreciate > your comment. Guess it can be spelled either way. Most important is that > everyone understands what it means. > > Lori > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

Thanks for the correction. I humbly apologize if I offended anyone by misspelling the word "Yakoke." Lori

Since the Choctaw language wasn't a written language, writing it now is relatively new, so there is no actual correct or incorrect way of spelling the words...It depends on who taught you...I spell it YOKOKE because that's how it was taught to me, and that's how it sounds when spoken to me by fluent speakers...YO with a hardish O sound.. B.E. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Lori0602h@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 7:36 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] MS Choctaw questions > Thanks for the correction. I humbly apologize if I offended anyone by > misspelling the word "Yakoke." > > Lori > > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna'WHINE?? Don't post it to the list...write to me at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com > >

Yakoke is the correct spelling Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer

In a message dated 9/1/2002 11:04:29 AM Central Daylight Time, wood_owl@hotmail.com writes: > > Richard, according to Hitler, he based his racial policies on those of the > US. If anyone is interested in this topic, I have a book coming out in the > next several months entitled Holocaust of Native America: An Introduction. > > The father of Modern Society and the one who, either directly or indirectly, inspired Hitler's racial policies the most, was Margaret Sanger, one of the most diabolically evil human beings ever to walk the face of the earth. But don't take my word for it. Look up her writings in the Journal of the American Birth Control League from the early 1900's. Look no further than one of her most cherished projects, "The Negroe Project" designed to eliminate the Negroe race. Many of her fellow eugenicists from the early 1900's, and later, such as Lothrop Stoddard, were ardent supporters of Adolph Hitler, as was she. She was the founder of Planned Parenthood. The KKK and David Duke and others have absolutely nothing on her where racial hatred is concerned. She could teach them a lot. But again don't take my word on it. There is an excellent book written by Elasah Drogin of New Hope, Kentucky, entitled "Margaret Sanger: Father of Modern Society." first published in 1979. Elasah Drogin was a Jewish woman who converted to Christianity and she did an excellent job of researching her subject. The book is available from New Hope Publications, New Hope, Kentucky 40052 (270-325-3061) for a very reasonable price of $6.00. It's had several printings since it was first published in 1979. It is 127 pages long and one of the most powerful and compelling books that you will ever read. John Craven New Orleans

joyce moore, nathaniel folsom was born may 17, 1756 in rowan co., n.c. and died october 09, 1833 in mountain fork, choctaw nation, indian territory. he married (1) I-AH-NE-CHA. she was born in mississippi. he married (2) AI-NE-CHI-HOYO. she was born in mississippi. nathaniel's father was Israel folsom born in maine or connecticutt and died before 1785 in cole's creek, miss. he married mary chambers born in 1733 in new jersey. hope this helps some. peggy

on the folsom line there is: folsom family http://www.choctaw-web.com/folsom.htm there is a nancy folsom on this line and they are choctaw. peggy

Thanks, but this Nancy Folsom is too late. The one that married John Moore was probably married about 1790, as Silas Moore was born around 1790, and Martin was born 1793. She had seven children at home in 1831. Joyce Moore Peggysyellowrose@aol.com wrote: > on the folsom line there is: folsom family > http://www.choctaw-web.com/folsom.htm > there is a nancy folsom on this line and they are choctaw. peggy > > ==== CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Got a PROBLEM?? Got a GRIPE?? Just wanna' WHINE?? Don't post it to the list. Write to me, the listowner, at CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-admin@rootsweb.com

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/4gC.2ACE/76.441.443.614 Message Board Post: My Great Great Grand Father Was Greenwood Thomas. He was raised By Greenwood Laflore. Greenwood Thomas's father name was John Thomas a close freind of Greenwood Laflore. Greenwood Thomas's son was John Marshal Thomas of Duck hill,Miss.His son was Edmound Noel Thomas.If this is any help

I am still researching the Scott S. Dumas application and appeal :MCR #4006 and believe it or not one of the things mentioned in the appeal rejection was "the physical description of Mr. Dumas" ! quote"This applicant has dark brown hair, light brown mustache, blue eyes, and medium fair complection; features and general chacterictics of a white person..." unquote This was actually listed as one of the determining factors in the application rejection at the time of the appeal. It goes on to say "that he does not speak understand or speak the Choctaw language..." Keep in mind this application was made from 1901-1908 far removed from the 1830 Treaty [ but still within the time limits allotted I might add.] In the same application his aunt, Keziah Brashier Thompson [sister of his grandmother, and grandmother of his wife] spoke fluent Choctaw . Tradition says that his great grandmother, Jane Lipsic Black Brashier/Brasher w/o John Brashier was thought to be 1/2 Mississippi Choctaw and a 'near relative' of Pushtamata.[sp?] Oral history was provided by representatives . The representatives were old and some were black. The had lived in the period [ 1830's] and were familiar with the principles [but color and age were determining factors in their testimony as well .] Some had been slaves. A few were quite old. Several books have been written regarding this issue: John H. Wilson The Dumas Families, Vol II Elhanan Winchester Dumas pub. 1988 is the latest one I have read, it is available from John H. Wilson II Trustee 1212 West El PAso Street, Ft. Worth, Texas. This Genealogy study has a section The Indian Connection pp301-341 [Scott S. Dumas was the Grandson of Elhanan W. Dumas.] In this book is much of the file extracted from the original applications and corroaborates Kitty Garber findings almost verbatium. Also the LDS FHC Library 20th Street Bellevue, Washington has copies of the originals from the NARA files. The Appeal signed by the lawyer is still missing in those files/ or I did not it them yet at any rate. ? which I think is interesting. [Kitty; Note] At any rate 395 families thought enough of the information to sign the applications and go forward. Things were not all as they should have been, that's for sure. The Government wanted to incorporate the Indians into mainstream America, the Indian Agent Ward was highly critized for his part in the debacle, papers were lost, courthouses burned with records lost forever and so forth. It is all a blight on the record. Still the bottom line was that Mr. Dumas didn't LOOK Indian. So 395 families were rejected. It was the final blow to the applications. An interesting aside that I might add here is that in future generations some members DO have darker skin, black hair and look very much as if they could have Indian blood. and I still reject the idea of author Charles Brashear his book in The Brazier, Brasher Saga pub. in 1998 that this family was trying, along with 80% of the applicants at the time, to try to defraud the government. That is just his theory certainly not everyones. 'Allbest' Susanna Noe