I have Vol. 1 and Vol 2 of Indians and Intruders compiled by Sharron Standifer Ashton. Sharron is a wonderful researcher and compiler working out of the Oklahoma Historical society. You can write to the Archives for information in purchasing these volumes. http://www.ok-history.mus.ok.us/ (go to Archives, click on "contact us") Volume 1 has: White Intruders in the Old Creek Nation, 1831 Intruders in the Choctaw Nation, 1882 1860 Indian Territory Slave Schedules, Chickasaw District, Choctaw Nation Fort Supply, Indian Territory, Records of Baptisms, Marriages and Deaths. Evidence of Marriage in the Creek National Records Chickasaw Traders in 1766 Cherokee Nation Permits Intruders and Non Citizens in the Creek Nation Vol 2 has: Cherokee Voters in the Old Cherokee Nation, 1835 Creek Nation Licenses and permits, 1875-1895 Choctaw Nation Divorce Records 1875-1905 Records of Marriages in the Cherokee Nation, 1869-1895 and undated Chickasaw Nation court records Estates and guardianships, Tishomingo county, 1874-1889 District Court records, 1870-1889 Cherokee Nation Divorce records 1874-1895 and undated Choctaw Nation Marriages 1889-1898 ---- If you ask for a look up in these volumes, keep in mind you will be given a DOC number on a specific roll of microfilm. The actual DOC will contain more information than the abstract for the book. I do not own Vol 3 or 4, and I am not sure if Sharron has finished Vol 5 yet. Nalora

For General Census Information please see: http://www.ncidc.org/census/census.html Census Monitoring Board Report Analyzes Funding Consequences of Census Undercount The Presidential members of the U.S. Census Monitoring Board released a report last week analyzing the potential effect on the distribution of federal funds of an undercount in the 2000 census. The firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP (PwC) prepared the report for the Democratic members of the Board. PwC studied eight federal programs representing over 82 percent of federal grant programs (with obligations over $500 million in fiscal year 1998) that rely on census data to determine the allocation of funds. For these programs, the report concludes that 26 states and the District of Columbia would lose an estimated $9.1 billion in funding from 2002-2012 due to a projected undercount in Census 2000. 169 metropolitan areas would lose $11.1 billion over the same period, according to the analysis, with the affected jurisdictions losing an average of $3,391 for each person not counted in the census. PwC said the projected funding losses are conservative estimates because it did not review all population-based federal programs or any state programs that distribute funds to counties and cities based on census data. Gilbert Cassellas, Presidential Co-chair of the Census Monitoring Board, said, "This study confirms that a 2000 undercount would result in federal funds being sent to places where the need is not the greatest." Board member Lorraine Green said at a press conference: "It is in the economic self-interest of every American … to participate in the census." The other Presidential appointees on the Board are former Commerce Under Secretary Everett Ehrlich and California Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante. Dr. Peter Merrill, director of PwC's National Economic Consulting Group, oversaw preparation of the report. PwC estimates that the net national undercount rate for Census 2000 will be 1.75 percent of the population, or nearly 5 million people, a figure that it called "conservative." The net undercount in 1990 was 1.59 percent. To estimate the potential misallocation of funds following the 2000 census, PwC applied the undercount rate for states, counties, and cities for the 1990 census to the latest Census Bureau population projections for 2000. (The methodology is described more fully in the report.) The Bureau measured the 1990 undercount using a 'post enumeration survey' conducted in the summer of 1990. PwC also assumed current funding formulas for the programs studied, and funding levels cited in the Clinton Administration's fiscal year 2000 Current Services Budget. The Census Monitoring Board was created in late 1997 pursuant to a provision of the Census Bureau's funding bill for fiscal year 1998. The Board has eight members: four appointed by President Clinton, two appointed by the Speaker of the House of Representatives (then Rep. Newt Gingrich), and two appointed by Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott (R-MS). The Board will operate through September 2001. The PwC report, "Effect of Census 2000 Undercount on Federal Funding to States and Local Areas, 2002-2012," is available through the Presidential Board members' Web site, www.cmbp.gov, and the PricewaterhouseCoopers Web site, www.pwcglobal.com. The Congressional Board members, led by Co-chair Kenneth Blackwell, maintain their own Web site at www.cmbc.gov. -- André Cramblit, Operations Director The Northern California Indian Development Council ( http://www.ncidc.org ) NCIDC is a non-profit organization that helps meet the social, educational, and economic development needs of American Indian communities. NCIDC operates a fine art gallery and gift boutique featuring the best of American Indian Artist's and their work, with emphasis placed on the work of the Tribes of N.W. California. (http://www.ncidc.org/gift/gifthome.htm#anchorgift)

ARushing, Yes I compile it all.. LOL I have over 1,700 Irwin families stored and 1,134 Erwin families compiled already.. What I do is store them in folders in a drawer here and mark them Last name then first and put them in alpha order.. So when someone is looking for someone I just have to open my drawers and take a look to see if I have anything.. If I dont.. then I make a new folder and add in the one they are looking for and any information I can find out myself.. Keeps me busy .. Usually about 40+ hours a week to keep up with everything.. Thank god I can live off of 2 hours of sleep .. LOL Jennifer

ARushing, I have soo much information on the IRWIN surname it is not funny. I run the IRWIN mailing list here at rootsweb so I get it all :) I am working on my family tree all by myself on every surname in it.. I have parts of each tree back as far as 1838 with some gaps still needing to be filled.. I'll zip some files for you on the surname of IRWIN and ERWIN and send them to you sometime this weekend.. I have photos also if you would like them from both names, IRWIN and ERWIN all black and white.. Older photos mainly.. Some I am not sure who is in them but they were in my great grandmothers albums.. Jennifer

Hi Barbara: I'm thinking about buying all 3 vols. of the book. Could you tell us what kind of information is in your book. Like, bios, just lists, etc.. Thanks, Sandi :)

Could you do a lookup on John Zanola? He was in Atoka County at the time of the Dawes Rolls and for some time previous to that. He spent time in various other parts of Indian Territory before he settled in Atoka. Thanks, Sylvia Sacramento

Jennifer, I rcvd your email. The names were all written with capital letters, but none of the names listed were printed bold. Of the names you have listed it appears that the only overlap or possible common area is with Irwin. When I find any of the Irwin/Erwin etc. surname families I usually keep the information. Part of the reason for that is that my Erwin Grandmother is the only grandparent I personally knew. Also is the fact that it was she who spoke to me of our NA heritage. The other reason is as I had mentioned before, the variety of spellings for the same individual! I have come across information on these individuals I believe. Mary Emily Hatcher and Emma Spencer both sound familiar, so I have at least seen them in my meanderings. They are not as far as I know in my family line, but I will check them against my info. and share anything I locate. My primary interests at present are with: ERWIN, etc. /RUSHING/JONES/DENNIS/TRIM(M). (I also have more than a passing interest in the GOODBEE and CLARKE families of Washington and St. Tammany Parishes of Louisiana from the late 1700's or early 1800's forward.) I am interested in what info you would share regarding your, and any Irwin (etc.) families or individuals that you have. I am interested in all of my ancestors, not just the male side of the families. I noticed that I am not working on the range of surnames that you are, so are you working back that far on your family alone??? ARushing warmrushing@ worldnet.att.net

My husband's gg grandmother was maybe Rebecca Irwin. She claimed to have been born in Ga. She was Choctaw living in Miss. in 1850. We really do not know what her last name was. It may have been Ivin. They lived in Marion Co. Miss. close to La. She was to have accompanied her youngest sons to Indian Terr. after the Civil War and then she went back to Miss. Does any of this compute? She was married to William Forbes. Carmen McDaniel Forbes At 12:45 PM 3/16/00 EST, you wrote: >Hi everyone, > Once again I am looking for anyone out there who might have a choctaw >relative with the surname of IRWIN. I know someone out there has to have a >clue LOL I can't be the only one searching :) I am even looking for anyone >who had relatives who married an IRWIN.. :) Just something.. > I do not know when my ancestors took on the IRWIN surname or what there >original surname might have been... ect ect.. > >Ok enough on my problem.. If anyone can help.. Please let me know.. > >Lost in the past, >Jennifer S. Irwin > > >==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== >Your donations to RootsWeb makes OKGenWeb and this Choctaw list possible. RootsWeb Gen. Data Coop. Box 6798 Frazier Park, CA 93222 > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html > >

Jennifer, what Collins are you working on? I have one Davis, John that married a Gertryde Metzger, one of their children was Myrtle Irene Davis. This is all I know of John. I have a quite a few Collins. Lee Ann Collins

Thanks, I found it. M ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty Collins <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Choctaw Name > James: > > Dancing Rabbit Creek (bok chokfi ahithac) was in Neshoba Co., Miss. I'm not > sure if it's still called that today on the maps. What say you, gang??? > > dustyc@microgear.net > -----Original Message----- > From: james watson <j.watson2@worldnet.att.net> > To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 6:09 PM > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Choctaw Name > > > >Dusty, Where in Mississippi is Dancing Rabbit Creek? Marian in Texas > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Dusty Collins <dustyc@microgear.net> > >To: <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 11:33 AM > >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Choctaw Name > > > > > >> Marian: > >> > >> Some of your info. is a little confusing, not having the actual land > >patent > >> in front of me to look at. Dancing Rabbit Creek is in Mississippi...it's > >> possible that what you've got there is a land patient awarded to the > >> ancestor by virtue of the Dancing Rabbit Creek Treaty of the 1830's. It > >> should show exactly where the land in Okla. was located, and I'm > presuming > >> that it was in Ashley Co. As someone said in a previous post, your > >ancestor > >> may have had two names, as so many of ours did - his Chatah name (Ona HA > >> Tubbe) and an anglo one (Tucker) Tubbe was an honor name for war and > >meant > >> "he killed" or "killer" Some lines of the Tubbe/Tubby family continued > >> with the name and some abandoned its usage. There should be someone on > >the > >> list who can translate it for you. > >> > >> dustyc@microgear.net > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: james watson <j.watson2@worldnet.att.net> > >> To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> > >> Date: Sunday, March 12, 2000 10:55 PM > >> Subject: [CHOCTAW] Choctaw Name > >> > >> > >> >I have a land patent with a name of a ggggrandfather, Robert Tucker, Ona > >Ha > >> >Tubbe, and it also gives the Choctaw, Dancing Rabbit Crk., Ashley Co., > >Ok. > >> >Can I believe this was given in 1858 to Robert Tucker, Indian, member of > >> >Choctaw? Do they have books with Choctaw names translated to English? > >How > >> >can I prove this is my Tucker? We were always that our Tucker were > >> Choctaw. > >> >Marian in Texas > >> > > >> > > >> >==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > >> >Looking for your Native American Ancestors in > >> >Pushmataha County, Oklahoma? > >> >Have a look -- http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma/ > >> > > >> > >> > >> ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > >> Pushmataha County, Oklahoma -- > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma > >> > > > > > >==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > >Please support wonderful & FREE genealogy on the internet. Join > Rootsweb.com today! > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > Please support wonderful & FREE genealogy on the internet. Join Rootsweb.com today! > >

I received the following from another list I am and thought it might be of interest to some of you. This was sent by a person who is taking the training to do the census. Sylvia Sacramento Also, for those interested: We are doing a large Indian Reservation. We have been instructed and taught to list the Native Indian first on the list, if they are 18 or over. Even if a white person owns/rents the house. This is a very good thing as now all Native Americans will be counted! On this (and most likely ALL) Reservations, it's a long form every other house. 50/50!

For answers to your Census questions please see: http://www.ncidc.org/census/census.html The race of every single person in the household will be documented along with a whole bunch of other minutiae of life (what time did you leave for work/school in the last week?) There are forms to fill out for up to SIX people in each household (if there are more, apparently some arrangement is made to report the additional folks). Complete data is filled out for each person. NONE of these forms is identified as for the head-of-household. The instructions do states that whoever is owns, is buying or renting the house should be one of the first two people identified. If nobody in the household is renting, owns or is buying the house, then any adult can answer first. EACH of the six forms asks for "race." You can mark more than one box if you feel you identify with more than one race. While this possibility might seem to hurt Native Americans because mixed bloods who truly are part of a tribal community might feel they should report their mixed heritage, it might also help, because people who are of limited heritage who might otherwise not feel honest about reporting themselves as Native American might claim that heritage if they could indicate it as a mixture. IMPORTANT-if you mark Native American, you are asked to identify enrolled or "principal" tribe. Enrolled is self-explanatory; principal tribe means the tribe you are not enrolled in, but "identify" with. So each individual in your household will have an opportunity to have their heritage listed on this census. Of course it won't be totally accurate, and of course people in poorer areas will be less carefully counted. Tribes will not be reimbursed for expenditures accrued in promoting or obtaining census responses. Given the poverty and remoteness of many tribal populations, and quite reasonable suspicion of anything having to do with the U.S. government by some tribal people, what do you think the odds might be for undercounting? And this is quite apart from the clear U.S. government interest in diminishing the numbers of tribally-identified people in this country (and since it's their test and they're making a serious issue of confidentiality, who's going to guard the henhouse from the foxes who already run the place or be able to prove the numbers are anything other than what U.S. officials say they are?). Sadly, the more accurate numbers will most likely be for those of us who have left our traditional homes at some time in our or one of our ancestors' pasts. The relatively larger numbers of Indians off rez will show 'assimilation' working as Indians mainstream into mixed populations. The only "good" thing to come out of that is that there will likely be more of a show of providing Indian education, entertainment and recreational options as a bone thrown to what's left of our cultures. There are two forms, a long one and a short one. The short one asks only a few basic demographic questions about name/race/age. As it turns out, I got the "long" form, which includes about 40 more intrusive questions. You might want to take a look at today's Drudge report online -- the penalty for not answering is a $500 fine, and I'm contemplating risking it along with a lot of other unhappy recipients. I truly don't think things are going to change much positively, even if we show more people of our ancestry--but I am very much afraid things could change very negatively if tribal numbers show sharp declines. I very much believe the feds would like nothing better than to "derecognize" more tribes and withdraw their lands and what benefits they now have from Janet Smith Yufala Star Clan of the Muskogee Creek Owlstar Trading Post -- www.owlstar.com-- André Cramblit, Operations Director The Northern California Indian Development Council ( http://www.ncidc.org ) NCIDC is a non-profit organization that helps meet the social, educational, and economic development needs of American Indian communities. NCIDC operates a fine art gallery and gift boutique featuring the best of American Indian Artist's and their work, with emphasis placed on the work of the Tribes of N.W. California. (http://www.ncidc.org/gift/gifthome.htm#anchorgift)

Marian, The 1903 census I was referring to was the census card or enrollment card I received when I asked for my grandfather's papers at the Ft. Worth archives. I guess they had to fill out the paper work to be registered Choctaws for the Dawes. It lists he and his wife (Seyon) and was approved in 1903. Lori ----- Original Message ----- From: james watson <j.watson2@worldnet.att.net> To: <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 08:14 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Walker/ Noahubbee > Where did you find the `1903 census? Marian > ----- Original Message ----- > From: LORI WINSHIP <winshil@prodigy.net> > To: <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 7:54 PM > Subject: [CHOCTAW] Walker/ Noahubbee > > > > Hello, > > > > I wondered if anyone out there has any information on my grandmother's > parents? My Grandmother is named Seyon (Walker)Winship she died in 1917. I > requested information from the Fort Worth Archives and received her packet > of enrollment papers. I would like to find out about her parents who were > full blood Choctaw's. (Father) Noahubbee and (Mother) Ka-ne-o-tema > of Tobucksy Co. Ok. They were listed as dead on Seyon's census card of > 1903. Would anyone have a census listing them? and what would their names > mean in Choctaw? Thanks for your help. Lori > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > > Pushmataha County, Oklahoma -- > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > Looking for your Native American Ancestors in > Pushmataha County, Oklahoma? > Have a look -- http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma/ >

For detailed answers to your Census questions please see: http://www.ncidc.org/census/census.html *Important Info on Census 2000 from a member of the National American Indian 2000 Census Advisory Committee, Glenda Ahhaitty: It was great to read the press release regarding the upcoming Census. Not only is it important to urge people to fill out the form and mail it back, and that lots of jobs will be available, but it is also important to education and our communities as to what is at stake in how the forms are filled out. Indian communities stand to be the big losers after the 2000 Census is tabulated due to possible tabulation methodology. 1) If a full blood Indian person is married to a non Indian person or living in an household where the head of the household who fills out the form is non Indian, they will tabulated with the household as non Indian. 2) If an Indian person checks the Hispanic/Latino question "yes," they will be counted as Hispanic/Latino. 3) If an Indian person is of mixed race background and checks more than one race -- white, black or asian -- they will be counted in a group of those who are two or more races. Thus, they will be lost for the Indian count. As many issues regarding tabulation have not been resolved and will not be resolved perhaps until after April 2000, it is critical to educate Indian communities on how to fill out the Census form if they wish to be counted as Indian. {DO's} 1) check "no" on the Hispanic/Latino origin question. 2) check only one race "American Indian" and write in the name of your tribe. It would be helpful if you could share this information.  I am a member of the National American Indian 2000 Census Advisory Committee and would be happy to answer any questions any one might have as would any member of the committee.  Committee members addresses and phone numbers can be found on the US Census Bureau web site. I can be contacted at: <Glendasa@aol.com> (213) 738-4936 Thanks Glenda Ahhaitty -- André Cramblit, Operations Director The Northern California Indian Development Council ( http://www.ncidc.org ) NCIDC is a non-profit organization that helps meet the social, educational, and economic development needs of American Indian communities. NCIDC operates a fine art gallery and gift boutique featuring the best of American Indian Artist's and their work, with emphasis placed on the work of the Tribes of N.W. California. (http://www.ncidc.org/gift/gifthome.htm#anchorgift)

Jennifer, what Collins are you working on? I have one Davis, John that married a Gertryde Metzger, one of their children was Myrtle Irene Davis. This is all I know of John. I have a quite a few Collins. Lee Ann Collins

Go to a Library and ask for a book called "Unhallowed Intrusions" by Don Shadburn. Charlene

Jennifer S. Irwin - "Lost in the past" Hello Jennifer, I don't know that I'll be of any help, but I am searching out ERWIN, ERVIN, IRWIN and IRVIN. I have found a number of the same individuals, that have their last names listed with more than one of the above spellings. I would be interested in learning what you are working on. If I have any useful info, I will be glad to share. Thanks. ARushing

Hi Guys- Does anyone have information about Intruders in I.T.? I'm especially interested in the books, "Indians and Intruders," by Sharon Ashton. Any help would be appreciated! Kelli Staples kmstapl@hotmail.com

Sorry folks...I have misinformed you. In checking, The Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek was to give out land allottments in Mississippi, not Okla. According to the Neshoba Co. page, some 6,000 Choctaws met with Andrew Jackson's representatives on September 18, 1830 in Neshoba at Dancing Rabbit Creek to iron out their differences. By Sept. 24 most of the Choctaws had left finding the provisions of the treaty unacceptable. On the 25th, the treaty with its new provision (Article 14) spelling out terms by which the Choctaw could stay in the East, receive land allotments and become Mississippi citizens was presented for negotiation and was agreed to and signed by those few remaining Choctaw leaders. Apparently "the land allotment provision turned out to be largely ignored by the United States and after five years not a single section of the 500 acres of land alloted to Choctaws remained under their ownership. For many years, those tribel members who stayed in Mississippi were a people without any lands, and made their living primarily from sharecropping on their own homeland for white settlers." sherry dustyc@microgear.net -----Original Message-----

James: Dancing Rabbit Creek (bok chokfi ahithac) was in Neshoba Co., Miss. I'm not sure if it's still called that today on the maps. What say you, gang??? dustyc@microgear.net -----Original Message----- From: james watson <j.watson2@worldnet.att.net> To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Choctaw Name >Dusty, Where in Mississippi is Dancing Rabbit Creek? Marian in Texas >----- Original Message ----- >From: Dusty Collins <dustyc@microgear.net> >To: <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 11:33 AM >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Choctaw Name > > >> Marian: >> >> Some of your info. is a little confusing, not having the actual land >patent >> in front of me to look at. Dancing Rabbit Creek is in Mississippi...it's >> possible that what you've got there is a land patient awarded to the >> ancestor by virtue of the Dancing Rabbit Creek Treaty of the 1830's. It >> should show exactly where the land in Okla. was located, and I'm presuming >> that it was in Ashley Co. As someone said in a previous post, your >ancestor >> may have had two names, as so many of ours did - his Chatah name (Ona HA >> Tubbe) and an anglo one (Tucker) Tubbe was an honor name for war and >meant >> "he killed" or "killer" Some lines of the Tubbe/Tubby family continued >> with the name and some abandoned its usage. There should be someone on >the >> list who can translate it for you. >> >> dustyc@microgear.net >> -----Original Message----- >> From: james watson <j.watson2@worldnet.att.net> >> To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> >> Date: Sunday, March 12, 2000 10:55 PM >> Subject: [CHOCTAW] Choctaw Name >> >> >> >I have a land patent with a name of a ggggrandfather, Robert Tucker, Ona >Ha >> >Tubbe, and it also gives the Choctaw, Dancing Rabbit Crk., Ashley Co., >Ok. >> >Can I believe this was given in 1858 to Robert Tucker, Indian, member of >> >Choctaw? Do they have books with Choctaw names translated to English? >How >> >can I prove this is my Tucker? We were always that our Tucker were >> Choctaw. >> >Marian in Texas >> > >> > >> >==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== >> >Looking for your Native American Ancestors in >> >Pushmataha County, Oklahoma? >> >Have a look -- http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma/ >> > >> >> >> ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== >> Pushmataha County, Oklahoma -- >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma >> > > >==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== >Please support wonderful & FREE genealogy on the internet. Join Rootsweb.com today! >