Well the Ganns you prob know are on my mothers side..I have Ganns on both sides..i have 100 pages of Ganns on my moms side..this Gann is not related to the other side?

These were Intruders in the truest sense, however, they did not have to be illegal to be an intruder. Doug Nalora wrote: > Doug, > > What do you call a non-citizen in a Nation without permission to be there? > Someone who has not been established as a citizen of that Nation, nor has a > permit allowing him to be in that Nation? > > What do you call a person who must be forceably removed from a Nation by > ANOTHER Nation's police force? (Since the Indian Nations had no > jurisdiction over US Citizens "intruding" in their territory, they had to > PAY the US a "bounty" to have the US remove them.) > > What do you call a person who has complaint papers (Intruder papers) filed > against them with a Nation's courts asking they be removed from that Nation > as Intruders? > > I would call that an illegal alien, myself. > > Nalora > > ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > Pushmataha County, Oklahoma -- > http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma

At 07:00 PM 3/19/00 EST, you wrote: >yes, you might say it is THE THREADGILL FAMILY...they are quite >well known, national park exists that belonged to my relatives...Anson >County, North Carolina. hehe...Well *I* say THE Threadgill family, because I have typed up the name so often if I see it, it sends off flags in my head. Ding ding... Nalora

I only mention Dr. John Threadgill because I have typed up that name so many times, I have that surname stuck in my head, and it does not even belong to me! He was an early day politician-mover-and-shaker in Oklahoma. Of course the Gann name is a pretty well known Cherokee name...there is even a Gann, Oklahoma named after them. Seems like with two well known names you should be able to get SOMEWHERE. Nalora

There are CUMMINS on the Dawes for Cherokees. Part of Haskell county was in the Cherokee Nation. Is there the possibility that your Cummins (Cherokee) married a Crowder (Choctaw)? Whitefield is just south of the river, which was the dividing line between the Choctaw and the Cherokee nation in Haskell county. Was the land North of the river near Whitefield? just thinking.... There are a BUNCH of Cummins listed in Our People and Where They Rest. Nalora

yes, you might say it is THE THREADGILL FAMILY...they are quite well known, national park exists that belonged to my relatives...Anson County, North Carolina. name orig from threkeld in England..very wealthy family that came on their own ship to the states.... Joseph was born 1844 Choctaw County, Alabama. Nancy

It is Joseph Threadgill, he was not American Indian, it was my grandmother Nancy Caroline Gann, her mother was Sarah mills/Jacob Gann. She is on the census abt 7 yrs later with her bro William perry and a Samuel, but it looks strange because she shows as 7 or 8, William as 3, and Samuel as 17? We dont think Samuel was a bro, but a Gann relative. Dr could be related..?? dont know...3 books out on the Threadgills, I dont have any, all out of print! Joseph & Nancy were married 1870 in Angelina County, Texas. my gram Ophelia and her sister were born in 1878, the twin was Joanna. We know she was Chickasaw/cherokee, but cant even find nancys place of death or burial, Josephs in Oklahoma, he is not the problem, he is well documented, a long line of Threadgills going bk to Illinois, orig from England, Deodotus from Bermuda and England. All of my family in Okla is working on nancy, we get nowhere fast!! Nancy Tenhet, California I monitor this site daily, hoping to see other Gann info.

No, do you have any information? I would love to get just one bit of good news about the Ballards in that area. Please e-mail back. Cindie

I'm trying to find where the Cummins, CROWDER, and Moss families originally came from: CUMMINS, Henry Allen, 1856-1911, (Choctaw, or by marriage) CROWDER, Donia, (his first wife, abt. 1881) MOSS, Johnie Lela, (his second wife, abt. 1894) WEST, Cordelia, Cummins (his daughter) The information above came from Ted Byron Hall's Book, "Oklahoma Indian Territory." He lists Henry as being born in Arkansas in 1859 and as a landowner in the Whitefield, Oklahoma area about 1880. He cites Choctaw land permits from Henry to tenant farmers, but the Cummins name does not seem to be on the Dawes roll. Another source lists his birth as 1856 in Illinois, and gives his parent's name as James Cummins and Catherine Booth. Johnie Lela Moss is listed as 1877-1913, born in Arkansas. My connection is through my grandmother, Cordelia Cummins WEST, one of Henry and Johnie's daughters. In addition to the Cummins family tree, I'm studying the history of the Whitefield/Hoyt/Younger's Bend area of Haskell County, OK. I would appreciate any names, information, book referrals, web sites, or family stories about that general area in the 1880's.

Executive Office Choctaw Nation, Indian Territory December 22, 1882 Hon H. M. Teller Secretary of the Interior Washington, D. C. Dear Sir: I herewith submit to you a list of names of whites and Freedmen of the different classes of intruders who are present in the Choctaw Nation. There are 16 counties in the nation of which the includes only 9. Seven of them are not reported. The list shows a total of 2847 of which 2290 are whites and 551 are Freedmen from the states. Of the different classes some are renting land some raising stock and some are hirelings and a great many other are engaged in nothing but stealing, drinking and carrying pistols in defiance of law and setting bad examples generally. Some of those that were removed by the US Troops in 1881 have returned. There are some claiming right over whom the Choctaw Nation has no jurisdiction, according to the instruction of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs which [re]quires the US Indian Agent to investigate [torn] claims of those whose rights are denied by the Choctaw Nation. I am afraid that unless a check is put to the fraudulent means of claiming rights our country will be invaded. This instruction of the Commissioner deprives us of a privilege granted to us by the treaty [torn] is not the rights of a single applicant [d]enied by the Choctaw Nation if his or her Choctaw blood can be proved before the proper tribunal of the Choctaw Nation and there are no respectable white people to establish fraudulent claims, so that if one of these fraudulent claimants gets into the Nation a way will be opened for the renegade whites to flock into the Nation. We therefore earnestly desire that these claims be tested as soon as [prac]ticable so as to check these fraudulent claims. Accordance with article 7th of the Treaty of 1866 between the United States and the Choctaws and these intruders are to be removed by the US Troops I therefore submit this report to you depending upon you for relief and hope that you will take immediate steps for the removal of these intruders that our treaty relations with US Government may be kept inviolate. Very Respectfully, J. F. McCurtain [signed] Principal Chief Choctaw Nation [This is attached to the Intruders in the Choctaw Nation 1882 list, L2481-1883 Record Group 75, Choctaw Intruders, Records of Indian Affairs, National Archives, Washington, D.C.] Nalora

About the easiest way to get the documents that are listed in Sharrons book is either to GO to the Archives at the Oklahoma Historical Society and pull the microfilm and have a look, or have them do it for you, and send you copies of the pages. If you write to them with the information I have given you such as: "In "Indians and Intruders Volume 1 by Sharron Standifer Ashton, the following abstract is found: (give the reference and Doc # if there is one) Could you please send me copies of these documents. And send them the cash to cover the copies. You can also call them Monday through Friday and ask them about costs. You can also of course order the appropriate microfilms from other sources, LDS FHC, etc. and look the doc up, but it may cost you more than just having the Archives do it, depends on how many different Microfilms you want to look at. Nalora

Is this like ****THE**** THREADGILL family, you are talking about...J. THREADGILL as in Dr. John THREADGILL? Nalora

Doug, What do you call a non-citizen in a Nation without permission to be there? Someone who has not been established as a citizen of that Nation, nor has a permit allowing him to be in that Nation? What do you call a person who must be forceably removed from a Nation by ANOTHER Nation's police force? (Since the Indian Nations had no jurisdiction over US Citizens "intruding" in their territory, they had to PAY the US a "bounty" to have the US remove them.) What do you call a person who has complaint papers (Intruder papers) filed against them with a Nation's courts asking they be removed from that Nation as Intruders? I would call that an illegal alien, myself. Nalora

At 02:04 PM 3/19/00 -0600, you wrote: >Nalora, > >Would you please reprint the address where the intruder books can be >purchased? You can either go to: http://www.ok-history.mus.ok.us/ (go to Archives, click on "contact us") and ask there, or write to: Ashton Books 3812 Northwest Sterling Norman, Oklahoma 73072-1240 Nalora

Sorry - no Thomas Jefferson Harris

From: Rlang90547 To: Taloah do you have any information on these flinchums who married into my Impson line in Indian Territory, Choctaw Nation? Ken johnson referred me to you. thanks. 1 William Flinchum . +susan flinchum .... 2 Eveline Flinchum 1876 - ........ +William C .Impson 1874 - __ << Rusty Lang, rlang90547@aol.com Impson Mailing List administrator Impson Surname Board administrator Visit my website at: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~impson/index.htm <A HREF="http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~impson/">Click here: index.htm </A> Check out the Impson Surname Board at http://resources.rootsweb.com/surnames/i/m/IMPSON/ Subscribe to the Impson Mailing List at: IMPSON-L@rootsweb.com Researching: ADAMS, ANDERSON, BILLY, BOHANON, BURRIS, COLBERT, CUZALINA, DANENHOUR, ELLIS, FENNELL, FLETCHER, FOLSOM, FREENY, GARDNER, GULLY, HAMPTON, HARKINS, HEWITT, HULL, JONES, MACKEY, MURPHEY, ROBINSON, SISCO, TOAZ, and others. ______________________________________________________________________________ _________________ Hi Rusty, I remember my grandmother speaking of an Eveline I think. William Washington Flinchum was my grand father, but his first wife was Ruby. My grandmother was Nora Adelaide Leathers. He was born in 1880, the first of James S.W.Flinchum's and Julia Ann Turnbull's 9 or so children. 1876 would have put the age that you are talking about most likely the generation before. Except for the Turnbull connection, I have known no other Flinchum/Choctaw connection. There is though the brother or uncle of my great grandfather, James S. W. Flinchum--Andrew Jackson Flinchum. They were in that area and it would be surprising if another of them hadn't married a Choctaw. Something about whites getting access to Indian land. I have the court records for Blue County and the number of what must have been white "renters" is overwhelming. I think it wasn't very long in those early days where the whites were already in the majority. Of course, I recognize all the names you mention, just about all of them. Impson I have not seen as a possible tie, but many I noted along the way. Bohanan crops up early in the Turnbull lineage. I have often wondered why there were no apparent marriages between the Freenys and the Turnbulls and the Folsoms, because they were living so close together. If I remember correctly Isaac Folsom was in the congregation of MT. Pleasant Presbyterian mission church. There was Susan Folsom (her father was not Isaac though) who married Simeon Turnbull, my great-grandmother's brother and one of the 13 children of Turner B. T. Senior and Jerico Perkins. Their first child was born 1841 and last one, we think about 1864. My great grandmother Julia Ann was born 1860. Turner Turnbull Jr. (1850-1908) and "Judge" Freeny were drinking (social, yeh right) and horse trading buddies the way the Stuarts (the younger generation) tell it. White traders thought they could get them plowed enough that they could be flimflammed into bad trades. According to one of the younger Stuart daughters now running the big ranch at Caddo and Atoka, they were to have said, "No, we drink tonight. We trade horses tomorrow." It was a very colorful, exciting era. I think the Turnbulls bounced back and forth on and off the side of the law. I haven't looked at the Blue Court records in quite awhile, but there may be other Flinchums listed there. A family story said James S. W. was part Cherokee, but there is nothing to support that. They were sure positive about it, but there is no way that could be unless it came from James' mother. If I find anything about this "William," I will let you know. I just wish I had had the good sense to understand the history I had a my finger tips when my grandfather and grandmother were alive. Unfortunately he died when I was a teenager, but most of my information came from her. Indians don't talk much, especially about "stuff" like this, unfortunately. At any rate I will pass on what I find in the Court records and if anything comes to mind. Frankie James

I was told that the suffix -tubbee, -chubby, or -tubby, or -nubbee, meant to kill. this is a common surname ending in the choctaw tribe. sometimes it is -abe. some of the names includ ischcubby, heopatabe, ileishkabe, mishintabe, anomantabe, tehletambe, yeohpatabe, aishetubbee,echapotabe, hopakintubbee, maytubbee, sorltahacubbee, salahamatubbee, hotechubbee, tontubbee, Wichubbee, Mihyachubbee, etc. These are from the 1885 choctaw nation census. rusty lang

Nalora Thank you for doing and posting the look ups for the Halls, Brooks and Johnson -- you have certainly provided a lot of info to the rest of us! We appreciate it. Gordon

Hi Carol: Do you have anything on Thomas Jefferson HARRIS? Thanks, Sandi :)

In a message dated 3/19/00 5:17:26 AM, vashti@theshop.net writes: <<At 07:56 PM 3/18/00 EST, you wrote: >Is there anything in your books on BROOKS, FITZPATRICK,HALL, HOLMES or JOHNSON. Sandi: There are 17 JOHNSON listed in Vol 1, and I will only list the first names here: Alfred, Charles, Henry, John, Sarah, Tom B., William, William E.. Once again I will merely list the first names of the JOHNSON in Vol 2: Dave, James, Jas. M., John F., Sarah. ===== Nalora: Thank you for ALL the work you went to! I didn't think there would be that much on the JOHNSON surname. Would it be too much to tell me what you have on the above? I did delete some of the names that don't apply to family. If there is way too much, would you tell me about Alfred, Dave and Sarah? Thank you again. Sandi :)