Thanks Beverly. Is it possible the various "Killer" names were originally "Tubbe" names? ie Sixkiller. Nalora

Is there a book, or does anyone have a list of the more common (and uncommon) Indian names and their American counterpart. I notice some of the old treatys etc. give the Indian name only. Also I still am trying to find out about Amzi Robinson (where he came from, who his parents were, was he indian)? He married Emily Folsom, daughter of Nathaniel I also need to know more about the Nails. Thanks Linda

At 07:28 PM 3/21/00 EST, you wrote: >Is there a book, or does anyone have a list of the more common (and uncommon) >Indian names and their American counterpart. I notice some of the old >treatys etc. give the Indian name only. Also I still am trying to find out >about Amzi Robinson (where he came from, who his parents were, was he >indian)? He married Emily Folsom, daughter of Nathaniel >I also need to know more about the Nails. Thanks >Linda I knew I had typed this name up in the Index I am currently "enlarging of "Leaders and Leading Men of the Indian Territory", Vol. I, Choctaws and Chickasaws By H. F. O'Beirne published 1891. Here is my expanded entry for my index I am compiling: ROBINSON, Rev. Calvin, Choctaw, b. 1827 Father: Amzi Robinson Mother: Emily Folsom wives: (1)Sophia James children of first wife, 10, only 3 survived: McKee, F. and Corina (2)Mary Patterson children: Christo Chrisman Here is the complete article from the Book, page 107: REV CALVIN ROBINSON (Choctaw) The subject of this sketch was born December, 1827 and is the son of Amzi Robinson, of North Carolina, and Emily Folsom, of the Hyah-pah-tuk-kalo clan. He was the first infant ever baptized in the Christian religion in the Territory, and that at the hands of Silas KINGSBURY, the Presbyterian Missionary. Calvin first came to the Choctaw Nation in 1831, his mother dying at Mountain Fork three days previous to Nathaniel Folsom, both of whom were buried in the same spot. Mr. Robinson was married in June, 1848 to Sophia JAMES, by whom he has ten children, all of whom died except McKee, F. and Corina. After the death of his first wife he married in 1880 Mary Patterson, a Texas lady, by whom he has a son by the name of Christo Chrisman. Calvin was ordained in the Cumberland Presbyterian church in 1876, after having held the offices of Ranger and Deputy Sheriff for two years. His clerical appointments are at present at Tulla-hi-kia and Hash-ok-wa, for which he recieves the moderate stipend of three hundred dollars per annum. Rev. Robinson is a thorough Christian, kind, hospitable and tolerant, and looks young and cheerful at sixty-three years. Nalora

>I have been curious about the TUBBE ending to a name, and was wondering if >the word was a Choctaw word. I have not found any proof to it, but of >course it meaning Killer or Eater, but then I do not profess to know the >Choctaw Language. The Choctaw word for "killer" is "abi". The "a" has a dot under it, which I can't do in this e-mail program, but an a with a dot under it is pronounced like the "u" in "tub". It's sometimes shown as a letter that looks like a cursive "v", so "vbi". Source: Cyrus Byington Choctaw Dictionary. Beverly missbev@theshop.net

Hello I am new to the list. I haven't been able to find my people who are said to be Cherokee, so I thought I would ck out Choctaw and others. I noticed the below Patton's now that is one of my surnames. Were these 2 Choctaw? My Patton line is said to be Indian but they were from TN so thought they were Cherokee. Does anyone have any information about these men's family's? Here are some of my surnames. RYAN, PATTON, TUCK, RUSSELL, HENDRIX/HENDRICKS, PERKINS. Thanks for you help Della http://sites.netscape.net/sunegle2/homepage Union Army, Lt. Robert Patton, USA, and Sgt. > Turner Patton, USA. Needless to say the Choctaw Government did not recognize > them. The Patton brothers, Choctaws, were so outraged by the lack of > recognition both moved to the Cherokee Nation. Jerry Ward, who was at the same

Hi all - another fascinating interview! http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/pioneer/ohs/harlansarah.html This one is an excellent read as Mrs. Sarah Ann (Moncrief) Hawkins Harlan chronicles her life from January 1850 leaving Alabama by boat to New Orleans up the Mississippi River to the Arkansas River then to Ft. Smith on to Ft. Coffee finally arriving in the Choctaw Nation area near Skullyville. The article details her daily life, lost of family, children and husband. Her story continues as she remarries, settles in the Chickasaw Nation, continues to raise and educate her children. It is also filled with the names of people she came in contract with throughout her life. This submission to the Indian Pioneer Papers is a delightful article about the hardships and joy of those times. Many thanks to Sandi for taking the time to transcribe the article. It's long, but Mrs. Harlan is such an enjoyable storyteller. Marti OKGenWeb State Coordinator http://www.usgenweb.com/ok I am an Angel - R U? http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~angels/ <<-- JOIN TODAY Proud RootsWeb.com Donor+ "Dedicated to user supported access to genealogical records on the internet"

For answers to your questions please see: http://www.ncidc.org/census/census.html American Indian/Alaskan Natives Be Counted For Census 2000! It is very important that each native household fills out and mails back the US Census 2000. If you do not fill out the information for your Tribe correctly, your family may not be counted by the government as a Native household. An estimated 12.2 percent of American Indians and Alaska Natives were missed nationwide in 1990. This 2000 census will be used to provide future funding for almost all Indian programs. If you and others in your Tribe are not counted, it may cause the US Congress to reduce or stop funding altogether for many Indian programs such as health services, housing, education, (and many other programs). Don't let this happen to your family, or your Tribe. There is a critical need for an accurate count and all answers provided are strictly confidential, with no way to connect answers or personal information to an individual. The Census Bureau does not require proof of Indian blood, so you are free to self-identify as Native even if you are not an enrolled member of a federally recognized Tribe. If you identify as a Native American, even if you are of mixed race, we recommend that you answer the race question as only AMERICAN INDIAN or ALASKA NATIVE. Use the following checklist when it is time to fill out the Census: 1.In a household with both an Indian and non-Indian adult the Indian adult should ALWAYS be indicated as the head of household. (There is NO requirement that the Head of Household be male, or the larger wage earner, etc.) 2.Check only one race, American Indian/Alaska Native and write in the name of your Tribe. The Tribe's name should be no more than 19 letters long and everybody must spell the name the same way. If you have any questions please contact your Tribe. 3.Check NO on the Hispanic/Latino origin question. (Do this EVEN if you have Hispanic/Latino blood in addition to American Indian or Alaskan Native background. If you check Hispanic/Latino, your Indian affiliation will not be counted.) Questionnaire Assistance Centers (QACs) are available if you need help with the census form. For more information please call the Northern California Indian Development Council (NCIDC) at (707) 445-8451, (800) 566-2381, (or check with your Tribe). -- André Cramblit, Operations Director The Northern California Indian Development Council ( http://www.ncidc.org ) NCIDC is a non-profit organization that helps meet the social, educational, and economic development needs of American Indian communities. NCIDC operates a fine art gallery and gift boutique featuring the best of American Indian Artist's and their work, with emphasis placed on the work of the Tribes of N.W. California. (http://www.ncidc.org/gift/gifthome.htm#anchorgift)

Jo, Thanks for the reply. Good luck and see you back on the list. Jacque ----- Original Message ----- From: Jo Dorame <jobdorame@prodigy.net> To: <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 8:25 AM Subject: [CHOCTAW] Unsubscribe > Sorry > > > > I will be away from my computer for awhile. I will reup later and post my Choctaw ancestors again. > > thanks > Jo B Dorame > > > ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > Looking for your Native American Ancestors in > Pushmataha County, Oklahoma? > Have a look -- http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma/ >

Can anyone identify these Impsons I found in cemetery books? Antlers City Cemetery: 1. Jack N. Impson, Jan. 25-1927-May 29, 1974. Sgt. U.S. Army 2. James Frank Impson, Sept. 9, 1984-May 21, 1916 3. Susie Impson Dec. 27-1889-March 25, 1953. dau of Jim Cole Sardis Cemetery Michael Gregory Impson, 1979-1986 Finley Cemetery Impson, J.H. Dock, 1895-1953 Atoka County Abandoned Cemetery "U" Impson, Elcy, 1861-?1880 Stringtown Impson, Katie June 16, 1916 March 15, 1964 If you have any information about these people, please let me know. thanks. Rusty Lang, rlang90547@aol.com Impson Mailing List administrator Impson Surname Board administrator Visit my website at: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~impson/index.htm <A HREF="http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~impson/">Click here: index.htm </A> Check out the Impson Surname Board at http://resources.rootsweb.com/surnames/i/m/IMPSON/ Subscribe to the Impson Mailing List at: IMPSON-L@rootsweb.com Researching: ADAMS, ANDERSON, BILLY, BOHANON, BURRIS, COLBERT, CUZALINA, DANENHOUR, ELLIS, FENNELL, FLETCHER, FOLSOM, FREENY, GARDNER, GULLY, HAMPTON, HARKINS, HEWITT, HULL, JONES, MACKEY, MURPHEY, ROBINSON, SISCO, TOAZ, and others.

DGallear@aol.com

Here is a good web site for those of you that can put your biases aside and read it with an open mind. You may learn something about the Indians and Freedmen that your white ancestors totally ignored do to their inherant prejudices back during the Indian territory days. http://www.pafb.af.mil/DEOMI/natam95.htm slimey ==========original message============ From: genreser@intcon.net (Doug Barkley) Date: Mon, Mar 20, 2000, 10:03pm To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Intruders: generally and genealogy Reply to: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com Nalora, I enjoy a good discussion, without the cussin', seems we have a good many individuals who enjoy it also. I have seen major upheavals, flames I think they are called, on this particular subject. Whites were both admired and resented depending on the individual. <<<<<<<<snip>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Dear Nalora: You do so well in explaining all you put on the list. Think about this. Most of my family were on the Union side of that terrible Civil war. Some were on the side of the Confederates. I don't understand why that's still such a sore point with those in families who were Confederates. How many years has that war been over? How many men, on both sides, died? It's over, done, and it seems to me, there is no reason for people to still be so upset about it! Both sides lost good men, some being against their own families because of how they believed! Where I live in CA some Confederate flags fly from poles people have put up in their yards. That's okay. They want others to know their ancestors fought on that side. Being able to express ones opinion is the American way. Don't get me started on the political correctness stuff we've been having to put up with. I'd like to meet the person who started that noise! I'll get off my soap box now and go on to other things. Best, Sandi :)

We could go on forever about the "Intruder" and the "Yankee". From where I live, Northeast is Tenn./N.C. Hardly Yankees! And the Intruders? Well, they really speak for themselves....they did not "belong" there under the rules set forth at that particular time in history. Some of their ancestors formed the Wantabe Tribe in I.T.

In your bk. of Mississippi Choctaw do you find a Robert Tucker and Ona-ha-tubbe, ca 1850-58? Thanks

Nalora, I enjoy a good discussion, without the cussin', seems we have a good many individuals who enjoy it also. I have seen major upheavals, flames I think they are called, on this particular subject. Whites were both admired and resented depending on the individual. When the Civil war ended four men were appointed by the Federal government to govern the Choctaw Nation. Thomas Edward, an intermarried Englishman, who served as the Adjutant General to Col. Jackson McCurtain, CSA, Jeremiah Ward, an intermarried blacksmith for the Union Army, Lt. Robert Patton, USA, and Sgt. Turner Patton, USA. Needless to say the Choctaw Government did not recognize them. The Patton brothers, Choctaws, were so outraged by the lack of recognition both moved to the Cherokee Nation. Jerry Ward, who was at the same time sheriff of Skullyville County, Choctaw Nation, went on to become a Circuit Court Judge, held that position until forced from office by a obscure law that kept Intermarried citizens from holding elected office. (Enforced by his estranged family.) Thomas Edwards bought a farm in the Narrows of Skullyville county and opened a trading center that became Red Oak, Oklahoma. and that's the rest of the story. Doug p.s. I've always thought the name Tubby, Tubbee, etc. indicated a warrior. One of my ancestors married Talking Warrior, Anolatubbee Nalora wrote: > Connotation! I get this a lot from my Yankee relatives who hate me to use > the word Yankee. Intruder. It too, has a connotation to some, but to me it > is just a word, which meant someone in the Nation who had not proved RIGHT > to be there. > > Many white, black, and Mexican people were in the nations legally, before > the Nations had "court systems". Of course, once the Nations were closed to > anyone not "showing a passport" so to speak, than a term was needed. They > were not called Intruders until there came a time a term was needed. > > I don't know when the term Yankee started, either, my assumption was it > started during the war, but recently some where in my reading I found it in > some earlier terminology. > My mother's line is a Yankee line and I recently had to do some thinking on > whether I used this term in a truly derogatory way, and found I really > didn't, since I have so many Yankee relatives. They are just the "ones that > live in the Northeast" to me. > > I have been curious about the TUBBE ending to a name, and was wondering if > the word was a Choctaw word. I have not found any proof to it, but of > course it meaning Killer or Eater, but then I do not profess to know the > Choctaw Language. > > My own heart tells me the Tubbe ending is more than merely a descriptive > term, but is a suffix denoting genealogy. As in the word BEN in Hebrew > meaning "son of" > > My intuition tells me that it is especially meaningful today for anyone > researching the line of Moshola-tubb-y. > > I have never proved the above with "documentation" however. > > Thank you Cousin David for encouraging me to speak. I hope I do not say too > much. > > (For those waiting for Lookups...today was a good day to be in the garden, > and now is a good time to talk) > > Nalora > > ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > Looking for your Native American Ancestors in > Pushmataha County, Oklahoma? > Have a look -- http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma/

Nalora, Thank you so much for all of the good information that you have been sending and for the time. Please keep it coming. Shari >From: Nalora <vashti@theshop.net> >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Intruders: Shari >Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 15:33:34 -0600 > >Shari: > >Permits were given to people who had no tribal affiliation, for the most >part. It cost the Choctaw nation 225 bucks a pop to have an intruder >"ousted", (Your government at work. the Catch 22 I was talking about) >Many people, eventually, were allowed to remain merely because they were >not doing any harm, or were actually productive. By the time DAWES rolled >around, tribal affiliations were more clear cut, but it marked the end of >idea of autonomous Nations for the FCT. > > >Nalora > > > >==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== >Looking for your Native American Ancestors in >Pushmataha County, Oklahoma? >Have a look -- http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma/ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Nalora-- THANK YOU, I appreciate your time! I honestly thought I had checked the Dawes with a search engine on-line; I came up with something on another surname, but not Collier. Maybe it was one of those "you've been sitting too long in front of the computer and your eyes are rolling to the back of your head" moments. Or am I the only one who has those? :) Thanks again, Trisha -----Original Message----- From: Nalora <vashti@theshop.net> To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Monday, March 20, 2000 3:41 PM Subject: [CHOCTAW] Intruders: Trisha >Trisha: > >Still working on others, (and gardening, and doing my own transcription >work) However, yours is an easy one. There are not any COLLIER in my >Indians and Intruders books. Here are the DAWES, just in case you have not >been able to search there yet. > >Dawes Final Rolls The Native American Collection, GenRef, Inc. and the >Oklahoma Historical Society > > Bld Census Enroll. >Surname Given Name(s) Age Sex % Cd # Page Number Tribe > >Collier, Abraham, 24, Male, 1-4, CC# 9197 Page 366, Enr# 21004 Cherokees - >by Blood > >Collier, Alice M., 4, Female, 1-16, CC# 2752 Page 421, Enr# 30130 Cherokees >- by Blood > >Collier, Arthur, 55, Male, , CC# 1438 Page 471, Enr# 135 Cherokees - by >Intermarriage > >Collier, Bettie, 34, Female, 1-8, CC# 2752 Page 421, Enr# 30126 Cherokees - >by Blood > >Collier, Charles A., 31, Male, 3-8, CC# 5157 Page 314, Enr# 12369 Cherokees >- by Blood > >Collier, Charlotte, 8, Female, 1-16, CC# 2756 Page 281, Enr# 7002 Cherokees >- by Blood > >Collier, Eliza E., 3, Female, 1-16, CC# 1009 Page 444, Enr# 1004 Cherokees >- by Blood (Minors) > >Collier, Flora, 22, Female, 1-4, CC# 3769 Page 294, Enr# 9121 Cherokees - >by Blood > >Collier, Harmon, 2, Male, 3-8, CC# 172 Page 439, Enr# 179 Cherokees - by >Blood (Minors) > >Collier, Hattie M., 7, Female, 1-32, CC# 1438 Page 263, Enr# 3918 Cherokees >- by Blood > >Collier, Jasper N., 6, Male, 1-16, CC# 2752 Page 421, Enr# 30129 Cherokees >- by Blood > >Collier, Jesse, 15, Male, 1-32, CC# 1438 Page 263, Enr# 3917 Cherokees - by >Blood > >Collier, Joseph S., 18, Male, 1-32, CC# 1438 Page 263, Enr# 3916 Cherokees >- by Blood > >Collier, Kate, 20, Female, 1-4, CC# 3769 Page 294, Enr# 9122 Cherokees - by >Blood > >Collier, Lettie, 31, Female, 1-8, CC# 2756 Page 281, Enr# 7001 Cherokees - >by Blood > >Collier, Lulu B., 1, Female, 1-16, CC# 1009 Page 444, Enr# 1005 Cherokees - >by Blood (Minors) > >Collier, Mack, 24, Male, 1-4, CC# 9918 Page 396, Enr# 26088 Cherokees - by >Blood > >Collier, Maddie, 1, Female, 5-8, CC# 3455 Page 467, Enr# 4645 Cherokees - >by Blood (Minors) > >Collier, Martha, 19, Female, 1-4, CC# 4455 Page 74, Enr# 12372 Choctaws - >by Blood > >Collier, Missouri A., 8, Female, 1-16, CC# 2752 Page 421, Enr# 30128 >Cherokees - by Blood > >Collier, Oma, 1, Female, 1-8, CC# 4455 Page 74, Enr# 12378 Choctaws - by Blood > >Collier, Richard, 23, Male, 1-16, CC# 1576 Page 265, Enr# 4218 Cherokees - >by Blood > >Collier, Thomas Scruggs, 1, Male, 1-8, CC# 1334 Page 105, Enr# 1178 >Choctaws - by Blood (New Borns) > >Collier, William A., 1, Male, 1-16, CC# 2752 Page 421, Enr# 30131 Cherokees >- by Blood > >Collier, William E., 4, Male, 1-16, CC# 2756 Page 281, Enr# 7003 Cherokees >- by Blood > >Dawes Final Rolls - Rejected The Native American Collection, GenRef, Inc. >and the Oklahoma Historical Society > > Bld Census Enroll. >Surname Given Name(s) Age Sex % Cd # Page Number Tribe > >Collier, Pollie, 42, Female, 1-16, CC# 1438 Page 263, Enr# 3915 Cherokees - >by Blood > > >Nalora > > > >==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== >Please support wonderful & FREE genealogy on the internet. Join Rootsweb.com today! > > __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

Where was Jacob Gann born, any idea? TN ? grburk@usit.net TNGenWeb County Coordinator for Decatur Co, TN http://www.netease.net/decatur TNGenWeb County Coordinator for Perry Co, TN http://www.netease.net/perry Listowner Decatur, Henderson, Perry Cos, TN TNDECATU-L-request@rootsweb.com Listowner Liston surname LISTON-L-request@rootsweb.com Listowner Rains surname RAINS-L-request@rootsweb.com -----Original Message----- From: TNanciten@aol.com <TNanciten@aol.com> To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, March 19, 2000 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Indians and Intruders Books-Nalora >Can anyone help me with my great grandmother, nancy caroline Gann, born >around 1850, married in 1870 to J Threadgill, my grandmother ophelia >Threadgill >was born in 1878...Nancy was either Chickasaw or Choctaw, we get mixed >info?? Her parents are reported to be Sarah Mills and Jacob(joseph) Gann. >Anything would be great. >Nancy > > >==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== >OK Surname Registry - added yours? http://www.rootsweb.com/~oknames/ >Search 4 surnames - http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/search.htm > >

Am interested in your Gann family. Have you traced back to 1830 or earlier? Renea grburk@usit.net TNGenWeb County Coordinator for Decatur Co, TN http://www.netease.net/decatur TNGenWeb County Coordinator for Perry Co, TN http://www.netease.net/perry Listowner Decatur, Henderson, Perry Cos, TN TNDECATU-L-request@rootsweb.com Listowner Liston surname LISTON-L-request@rootsweb.com Listowner Rains surname RAINS-L-request@rootsweb.com -----Original Message----- From: TNanciten@aol.com <TNanciten@aol.com> To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, March 19, 2000 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] THREADGILL >It is Joseph Threadgill, he was not American Indian, it was my grandmother >Nancy Caroline Gann, her mother was Sarah mills/Jacob Gann. She is on the >census abt 7 yrs later with her bro William perry and a Samuel, but it looks >strange because she shows as 7 or 8, William as 3, and Samuel as 17? >We dont think Samuel was a bro, but a Gann relative. > >Dr could be related..?? dont know...3 books out on the Threadgills, I dont >have >any, all out of print! > >Joseph & Nancy were married 1870 in Angelina County, Texas. my gram >Ophelia and her sister were born in 1878, the twin was Joanna. > >We know she was Chickasaw/cherokee, but cant even find nancys place of >death or burial, Josephs in Oklahoma, he is not the problem, he is well >documented, a long line of Threadgills going bk to Illinois, orig from >England, >Deodotus from Bermuda and England. > >All of my family in Okla is working on nancy, we get nowhere fast!! > >Nancy Tenhet, California > >I monitor this site daily, hoping to see other Gann info. > > >==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== >OK Surname Registry - added yours? http://www.rootsweb.com/~oknames/ >Search 4 surnames - http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/search.htm > >

Connotation! I get this a lot from my Yankee relatives who hate me to use the word Yankee. Intruder. It too, has a connotation to some, but to me it is just a word, which meant someone in the Nation who had not proved RIGHT to be there. Many white, black, and Mexican people were in the nations legally, before the Nations had "court systems". Of course, once the Nations were closed to anyone not "showing a passport" so to speak, than a term was needed. They were not called Intruders until there came a time a term was needed. I don't know when the term Yankee started, either, my assumption was it started during the war, but recently some where in my reading I found it in some earlier terminology. My mother's line is a Yankee line and I recently had to do some thinking on whether I used this term in a truly derogatory way, and found I really didn't, since I have so many Yankee relatives. They are just the "ones that live in the Northeast" to me. I have been curious about the TUBBE ending to a name, and was wondering if the word was a Choctaw word. I have not found any proof to it, but of course it meaning Killer or Eater, but then I do not profess to know the Choctaw Language. My own heart tells me the Tubbe ending is more than merely a descriptive term, but is a suffix denoting genealogy. As in the word BEN in Hebrew meaning "son of" My intuition tells me that it is especially meaningful today for anyone researching the line of Moshola-tubb-y. I have never proved the above with "documentation" however. Thank you Cousin David for encouraging me to speak. I hope I do not say too much. (For those waiting for Lookups...today was a good day to be in the garden, and now is a good time to talk) Nalora