You said; >I would like to see you and your list accept and not >challenge what Indians have to say about the word >Squaw. Who here is the expert on the heart of an Indian? Most of us, if not all, on this list ARE INDIAN and I can fairly confidently speak for us all that we ARE the experts of our hearts. From the messages so far, it seems we would all perfer to not have someone tell us what we should accept and what we should not challenge. You said: >How can you take offense when you were not offended >by the word? I understand that you do not want to lose >your good resource, but is she so fragile that she cannot >change one word in respect for an entire race of people? I understand that you have good intentions, but the person who attacked our co-listmember hurt not only Nalora, but all of the members as well.. Where is the respect for us? In all of these things, isn't there is a better way to rally people to your cause without hurting so many people? Personally, I feel a lack of respect from your words about this group. I'm sure you didn't intend it that way, but that is what I feel from reading your words. We are humans, and we are all fragile as well as strong. Sharon A proud Choctaw

I too mostly just listen and stay quite, but I seem to recall hearing squaw a lot while I was growing up. I always felt glad for someone to say I looked like a squaw. Because that meant they could see my heritage showing in me. In some books I have read they referred to a squaw as being a good wife, mother, And yes I have even heard about how the squaw was supposed to always walk behind her husband, Well I just took it that was the way they did things. And yes I have been picked on and told he squaw get behind me and walk. I just smile and say watch out this squaw might take a scalp or two if picked on alot. And please don't panic cause I said take a scalp. I most definitely am not making fun of native Americans. My great, great, grandmother was 1/2 Choctaw so I am told. Am also told I look more like her than some of her own children. I think the most awful use of the word squaw I have ever heard was on old western movies when the cowboys downed them and degraded them, or when a white woman come back from living with native Americans they called her a squaw. Well, I think alot of those women were proud to be called squaw, as some of them would rather die than go back to the whites. Look at quanaha Parkers Mom, she hated coming back to whites. and yes I may have spelled his name wrong sorry if I did. Personally wish I was back in the old days Julie Moton jmoton3557@aol.com

I'd like to know who did this? I'm with Nalora all the way! And, am glad she's getting so much support. I've been forwarding her all the great messages of support. This woman is one super great genealogist! Let's hope we get her back. Sandi :)

This is the message I got from Nalora and with her permission, forwarded bits and pieces to you. > Jacque, > > My intent was never to make your list yet another place where I was forced to leave. I honestly do not understand why I get attacked, but it seems as soon as I open my mouth, someone begins to seeth with hatred for me. I have cried about this all night, that once again, I am forced to leave in order to preserve my sanity. > > I honestly was just getting excited about helping people again!!! I thought, wow, I can do this and not get slammed! Then I say "Squaw man" GOOD HEAVENS anyone who has read any thing in Oklahoma History KNOWS this is what white men who married into the tribes were called. > > I honestly only had ONE GOAL in mind when I joined ANY Okie list...I wanted to Help people find their kin in Oklahoma. It is, in my opinion the most CONFUSING place to do genealogical research without a guide through it, and yet it reaps the most rewards! What a colorful history we have here in this wonderful state. I cheer when I drive down a highway and see the big signs: Entering the Chickasaw Nation; Leaving Sak Fox Nation; Entering the Absentee Shawnee Nation... this is the richest genealogy anyone will ever find, in my opinion...people just need help to strike the mother-lode. > I will send you the O'Beirne list when it is done. I am done with the Choctaws, working on the Chickasaws > now. It will be on my page eventually, and I hope to be able to scan all the pics and put them up someday as well. > I am really sorry this happened. Nalora is a nice person who loves doing research and helping people find their ancestors. Jacque

James, I thought you were already unsubed from the list. I don't remember seeing where you had resubed or am I confusing you with someone else? Jacque ----- Original Message ----- From: James A. Miller, Jr. <jalmillerjr@att.net> To: <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 9:31 PM Subject: [CHOCTAW] Re: CHOCTAW-D Digest V00 #72 > Unsubscribe please. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <CHOCTAW-D-request@rootsweb.com> > To: <CHOCTAW-D@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 11:24 PM > Subject: CHOCTAW-D Digest V00 #72 > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > Pushmataha County, Oklahoma -- > http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma >

Nalora: Your work is much needed. I may never find the I am looking for, but it is evident you help many. Great Grandaughter-in-law of a SQUAW-man

Thank you for saying that! Kuddos to you! Sandi :)

This was sent to me from rootsweb staff because it was sent to the subscribing address instead of straight to the list. I don't know who the person was who sent it, but guess I would be remiss in my duties as list owner not to also forward messages from the opposite opinions on the subject of SQUAW! I must tell you all that I started the list because I need help on my Native American research as well and do not have any resources at my fingertips to help anyone except what I also find on the internet or what other people help me with, and then I only give the information out on here because there are a lot of new people to genealogy research and hope the duplication of information does not displease those of you who are 'old hats' at this. (Hope I am not offending anyone by that term.) I try not to get involved in things like this, but Nalora has been a good friend to me (although I have never personally met her), and because this has happened in the past, I also take offense when someone doesn't like what she has to say. At least she is honest and only states historical facts (as she interprets them) or as others have interpreted them in the books she reads. Why can't history be that and not a continual thorn in our sides today? I guess what we read or see in email or what we hear is all a matter of interpretation to each and every one of us. Again, I apologize if I have offended anyone. I cleaned up the message below so it would not be so long. Guess it wouldn't be if I hadn't put my 2 cents in. Jacque ----- Original Message ----- From: <CHOCTAW-L-request@rootsweb.com> To: <scope@ou.edu> Cc: <CHOCTAW-admin@lists.rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] My apologies and goodbye > >From CHOCTAW-L-request@rootsweb.com > > SQUAW - Facts on the Eradication of the "S" Word http://www.main.nc.us/wncceib/squaw.htm American Indian women and men all around the United States and Canada reject the use of the word squaw in reference to American Indian women. The word has been imposed on our culture by European Americans and appears on hundreds of geographic place names. Suzan Shown Harjo brought the issue to national attention on the Oparh Winfrey Show back in 1992. Since that time projects to eliminate the use of the word on geographic sites have formed in Minnesota (Dawn Litzau and Angelene Losh), in Arizona (Delena Waddle and Seipe Flood), in California (Stormy Ogden), and in Iowa (Fawn Stubben). Many other states are forming groups to erradicate the use of the word from geographic place names and women's sports teams. > 1.When people argue that the word squaw appears in the dictionary, remind them that the word is also identified as derogatory. The Thesaurus of Slang lists the term squaw as a synonym for prostitute, harlot, hussy, and floozy. > 2.When people argue that the word originates in American Indian language point out that: > In the Algonquin languages the word squaw means vagina. > In the Mohawk language the word otsikwaw means female genitalia. Mohawk women and men found that early European fur traders shortened the word to squaw because that represented what they wanted from Mohawk women. > Although scholarship traces the word to the Massachusset Indians back in the 1650s, the word has different meanings (or may not exist at all) in hundreds of other American Indian languages. This claim also assumes that a European correctly translated the Massachusset language to English--that he understood the nuances of Indian speech. > Attitudes of white supremacy account for the need of seperate identifing terms such as squaw and buck. In order to justify the taking of the land, American Indian women and men had to be labled with dehumanitizing terms. Europeans and European Americans spread the use of the word as they moved westward across the continent. > 3. When people say "it never used to bother Indian women to be called squaw, respond with the following questions and statement. > Were American Indian women of people ever asked? Have you ever asked an American Indian woman, man, or child how they feel about the word? (Do not say the word yourself, simply call it the "s" word) then state that it has always been used to insult American Indian women. > 4. When people ask "why now?" explain that: > Through communication and education American Indian people have come to understand the derogatory meaning of the word. American Indian women claim the right to define ourselves as women and we reject the offensive term squaw. > (taken from the web page of American Indian Movement, Southern California Chapter) > "American Indians are a living people NOT mascots" >

Nalora: Don't leave, please! Squaw Sandi:)

My sentiments only better sd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nancy A Chickasaw sister

We can not allow this jerk (whoever he or she may be) who has been so hateful to Nalora to win--because silencing her voice is a win for this person. He/She can not be allowed to have control over what we believe in and know to be important: The Truth. -----Original Message----- From: SandKatC@aol.com <SandKatC@aol.com> To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Thursday, March 23, 2000 3:54 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Don't leave Nalora! >I'd like to know who did this? I'm with Nalora all the way! And, am glad >she's getting so much support. I've been forwarding her all the great >messages of support. This woman is one super great genealogist! Let's hope >we get her back. > >Sandi :) > > >==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== >Please support wonderful & FREE genealogy on the internet. Join Rootsweb.com today! > >

Sandi, Thanks for taking care of forwarding the messages of concern for Nalora to her for me. I should have read all my messages before I forwarded them to her, I guess, because now she is getting them all again, LOL. Jacque ----- Original Message ----- From: <SandKatC@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Don't leave Nalora! > I'd like to know who did this? I'm with Nalora all the way! And, am glad > she's getting so much support. I've been forwarding her all the great > messages of support. This woman is one super great genealogist! Let's hope > we get her back. > > Sandi :) > > > ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > Please support wonderful & FREE genealogy on the internet. Join Rootsweb.com today! >

Amen! And I am forwarding all your messages to Nalora (as she has already unsubed) in hopes that she will reconsider and come back. This has happened to her many times on other lists and I just wish it would stop. Sharon, you hit the nail on the head and I wish I had read your message first before I sent my own to her explaining how I felt and that I wish she'd come back. You explained it so much better than I. Jacque ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon DeLoache <deloache@intellex.com> To: <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] My apologies and goodbye > There is no possible way that anyone can be all things to all people, and > there are some people to whom we hope that we will never be anything. The > person who criticized Nalora for using the word "SQUAW" is one for whom I > feel nothing but contempt. How dare he (or she) be so small minded and so > totally unaware of the incredible work that Nalora has done for us all--an > absolutely thankless task evidently. To attack such a person as Nalora for > using such a word in its HISTORICAL CONTEXT is absolutely unconscionable. I > am so furious and so saddened by this display of mindless "political > correctness". It is impossible to clean up our past in regard to its > language--it is a cast in stone historical fact. In such a forum as this > genealogical one if in no other, we should all realize that the past is set > regardless of how we happen to feel concerning it. We can not change it, > nor can we change the words which were used in the past. WE CANNOT JUDGE > THE PAST NOR ITS VOCABULARY BY OUR PRESENT DAY ATTITUDES. > > I can only hope that Nalora will "consider the source" of the individual who > was so vehement in his (her) opposition to an historically accurate term. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nalora <vashti@theshop.net> > To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: Thursday, March 23, 2000 12:38 AM > Subject: [CHOCTAW] My apologies and goodbye > > > >Seems I offended someone with the use of the word SQUAW. > > > >I am offended by anyone being offended by words. > > > >They ban Mark Twain for that in Enid, Oklahoma, ya know. > > > >I am unsubbing. Yall have a good time. > > > > > >Nalora > > > > > > > >==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > >OK Surname Registry - added yours? http://www.rootsweb.com/~oknames/ > >Search 4 surnames - http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/search.htm > > > > > > > > > ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > Pushmataha County, Oklahoma -- > http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma >

I read, but do not participate, but, you seem like an intelligent woman, that would not let anyone's lack of intelligence stop her from doing something she enjoyed. ----- Original Message ----- From: Nalora <vashti@theshop.net> To: <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 6:33 PM Subject: [CHOCTAW] My apologies and goodbye > Seems I offended someone with the use of the word SQUAW. > > I am offended by anyone being offended by words. > > They ban Mark Twain for that in Enid, Oklahoma, ya know. > > I am unsubbing. Yall have a good time. > > > Nalora > > > > ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > OK Surname Registry - added yours? http://www.rootsweb.com/~oknames/ > Search 4 surnames - http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/search.htm >

There is no possible way that anyone can be all things to all people, and there are some people to whom we hope that we will never be anything. The person who criticized Nalora for using the word "SQUAW" is one for whom I feel nothing but contempt. How dare he (or she) be so small minded and so totally unaware of the incredible work that Nalora has done for us all--an absolutely thankless task evidently. To attack such a person as Nalora for using such a word in its HISTORICAL CONTEXT is absolutely unconscionable. I am so furious and so saddened by this display of mindless "political correctness". It is impossible to clean up our past in regard to its language--it is a cast in stone historical fact. In such a forum as this genealogical one if in no other, we should all realize that the past is set regardless of how we happen to feel concerning it. We can not change it, nor can we change the words which were used in the past. WE CANNOT JUDGE THE PAST NOR ITS VOCABULARY BY OUR PRESENT DAY ATTITUDES. I can only hope that Nalora will "consider the source" of the individual who was so vehement in his (her) opposition to an historically accurate term. -----Original Message----- From: Nalora <vashti@theshop.net> To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Thursday, March 23, 2000 12:38 AM Subject: [CHOCTAW] My apologies and goodbye >Seems I offended someone with the use of the word SQUAW. > >I am offended by anyone being offended by words. > >They ban Mark Twain for that in Enid, Oklahoma, ya know. > >I am unsubbing. Yall have a good time. > > >Nalora > > > >==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== >OK Surname Registry - added yours? http://www.rootsweb.com/~oknames/ >Search 4 surnames - http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/search.htm > >

Hey Nalora, dont go!!!! I was chastized on the Choctaw page for telling the story that was told to me abt my great grandmother...my comment was..."Why did he marry that squaw?" It was not my words, but a story that was told to me, and to tell you the truth, I would be the last one to belittle my grandmother...how can you relate a story without tellingit the same way it was told to you?? It is a storyof history and prejuduce, not our own feelings?????? thanks for listening Nancy a Chickasaw sister, without a roll number!!! But a decendent none the less!!

Searching for information about Mary Durant who married Jonathan Stidham before 1877 when their first son, Zachariah Durant was born. Mary was listed as Choctaw on the Dawes Roll. Known children, Zachariah, Marion, Sarah, Drucilla, and Lillie. Mary was my wife's gg-grandmother. The family believes her father,s name was Will Durant, but we are not sure. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Robert

Nalora, I am sorry to see you go. Whomever the ignorant person is who was offended by the word squaw should unsub. This person obviously has no clue that you can't judge the vocabulary of the past by todays standards. You have done a great deal of work and I thank you greatly. You have made it possible for me to narrow down my family search and contact my tribe. I am totally thankful. To the person who was offended by the term "Squaw", I say this with no regret..... get a life. Take a course in linguistics and learn how to educate without getting personal. So you were offended, big deal. Get over it. It is one thing to inform people on the background of the word squaw, it is another to offend a person trying to help total strangers and by voicing your "opinion" you have offended a kind hearted, generous person who is out to hurt no one and deprived a lot of people an avenue to find out about thier heritage and the Choctaw tribe from expanding by adding people to the rolls during a time of census which in turn causes the tribe to lose a lot in federal funds that could go to improving schools, medical care, and other important things the tribe needs, let alone what they want..... I sincerly hope you feel better by voicing your "offense" at the use of the word squaw... here is another modern use of the word....it is in noun form and it applies to you... I'm sure a lot of people will agree with me when I say. " You are a squaw!!!!" and I don't mean a female!!!!!! Now, you can take it personally... Sincerely Raveneyes, A Mississippi Choctaw Dani Ho!!! ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Della, I have a Hendrix line. James H Hendrix and wife Eliza had son John William. John married Rosa Whitlock in 1901 in Scott Co AR. They moved to Okmulgee County OK in 1920 or so. They had a total of ten children. One of those is Lottie, who married Charley Ralls. They are my grandparents. There is supposed to be Indian heritage, I think through Rosa Whitlock, probably Cherokee. Do you know these folks? Georgia Aeverman

It seems that someone wants to spoil our great list and one of our compilers, whom the rest of us are so thankful to have among us. I've been trying to think about what it is about that word that so upsets someone in our group - but for the life of me, I can't think of what it would be. From my readings, Indian women were revered and they were called squaws. Some tribes were even matriarcal !! I am truly saddened that anyone would feel threatened by the use of word from our past and then threaten our "list unity". I am even more saddened that this person attacked the member of our group who is working so dilligently to help us all !! Nalora, you are treasured by the rest of us. If you can, please don't let this one person make you leave us. Sharon