Sonja, usually especially on the 1885 Choctaw Census families were listed together. If she was living when the Dawes rolls were made, the census card shows their parents. Doug sonja wrote: > Found our ancestor Eliza Barker listed > on 1885 census in Atoka , Oklahoma.. .. > she is listed with her child Seth .. > both listed as Indian by blood .. > have been unable to find her parents !! > and even unsure as to whether Barker was > a maiden name or a married name .. > we know child (Seth) was offspring of Dunn. > > any info on Eliza Barker ? any one ? > thank you . > Researching: Barker Reasor Dunn Tierce Smith McRight Holland Lucas Graham Gipson Gilstrap > Gentry Major Forrester Camp > > ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > OK Surname Registry - added yours? http://www.rootsweb.com/~oknames/ > Search 4 surnames - http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/search.htm

Found our ancestor Eliza Barker listed on 1885 census in Atoka , Oklahoma.. .. she is listed with her child Seth .. both listed as Indian by blood .. have been unable to find her parents !! and even unsure as to whether Barker was a maiden name or a married name .. we know child (Seth) was offspring of Dunn. any info on Eliza Barker ? any one ? thank you . Researching: Barker Reasor Dunn Tierce Smith McRight Holland Lucas Graham Gipson Gilstrap Gentry Major Forrester Camp

PEOPLE...PEOPLE!!!!! Let's not deteriorate to WWIII like a bunch of kindergarten kids just because Markie and Fay are gone! Take your private opinions off-list where they belong......PRETTY PLEASE!!!!! sherry dustyc@microgear.net -----Original Message----- From: Alicia Marseilles <raveneyes32@juno.com> To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Thursday, March 23, 2000 1:40 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Also offended by the word! >To Scope, >You want to talk about respect? What happened to the respect due Nolora >for all the GENUINE help she is giving people trying to find thier >ancestors??!! I am Choctaw, nothing to prove, monitoring this site to >find lost relatives and trace my tribe back because I am also S.E. >Cherokee. Notice I did not call myself Indian (speaking of respect) >since I am of the Native People of this land and none of my family ever >came from India. A few drunk, diseased Europeans didn't know where they >were and out of RESPECT for my people, I refuse to let a bunch of sailors >define us. Squaw was notice past tense here, was, used regularly just >like nigger, cracker, and a bunch of other derogetory words. If you go >back to some earlier American writings, you will find these words used >regularly when describing the " lower class" along with some slave >manifests, marrige certificates, and other legal documents. That doesn't >make it ok then and it is certainly not ok now. You have to look at >things in the context of history and remember where they came from in >order to NEVER ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN AGAIN. Nalora was not calling anyone >a squaw, she was relaying information from a document or story... that >tells you how old the story is, what period it came from, and language >can help you to pinpoint a timeperiod in order to know where to look up >records. >No disrespect was intended obviously. Like I said, she did not call >anyone a squaw. If she did, then yes, there would be something to be >upset about and let me tell you I would be leading the charge... and I >have on several occasions. Nalora is deserving of respect, she has >helped a lot of people. We all need to get past this misunderstanding >and do what we should do best, stick together and support oneanother. >There aren't enough of us to fight weather Chickasaw, Choctaw, Cherokee, >Lakota, Creek, whatever tribe we belong to we are one people and we need >to stand as one people. We all seem to agree that the present USE of >squaw is derogatory and should not be used by ANYONE, but in the context >of history, it could be a reminder of what we will never allow again to >happen to us... Dani Ho!! >________________________________________________________________ >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > >==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== >Please support wonderful & FREE genealogy on the internet. Join Rootsweb.com today! >

Scope..........no we all desire the friendship and help of each other!!!!!!! I am a american Indian, nothing to prove. fact. I just an trying to trace my roots further, and gain some knowledge along the way, and just maybe I can help others, already have assisted a couple who were looking for my Ganns. Indian is felt in our hearts..mine is big enough to get past any prejudice. May God send a special blessing your way!!!!! Nancy

thank you Ronald....because we are one nation in our hearts, and not that many of us to stand up anymore!!!! Or those who will stand up!! Hey I told my cousins that are not Indian in okla, I was very close to proving my native american ancestry, and they sd well most of us try not to look Indian?? Well Geez......cousins.....sorry.....I know first hand that prejudice against being indian still exists...that was only a month ago!!!!!!! See?????? Nancy

well scope, i was chastized for telling a story, trying to bring home a point.. and was told few would help me if I used the word Squaw..I wasnt using it I was telling what the whites called my great grandmother when she married my g-pa..not using the word myself?? Geez....I know its durogatory, now can we get past that and try to help each other??? Nancy A Chickasaw Sister

Hi Jacque: A cousin on this list e-mailed me personally and asked if I was still going to help Nalora by alphabetizing her list names. He really seemed down over this mess and wants to help, also. Aren't we all down and rather indignant just because of one rotten apple on the list? My answer as in helping Nalora, to make it short was "YOU BET I AM!" I've still got a lot of e-mail support letters to forward to her. And, there just ain't no way she doesn't know she is loved! Isn't it odd she's never said anything to offend anyone else? Let's hope this doesn't rip our list apart, but, unites it into a stronger bond between we sisters and brothers who are all proud to have REAL American blood running through our veins! Hang in there, Jacque! Best, Sandi :)

Nalora, I would love to se your chickasaw work to compare with what little we can find out abt the Ganns, who were native Chickasaws...some fo the non indian Ganns say the Indian ganns did not exist, but then who was My grandmother and her father & mother..I say THEY DID!!! AND I HAVE PICS TO PROVE IT!! When you live in Calif, its so diff, because you cant go anytime to the records and look, or things likethat.. God bless those in Oklahoma who do this for us....no matter what tribe they might be from. Now my son says to say the word "Indian" is unsulting, that I should always say native American..never Indian??? a word on the census, if everyone who knew or knows they have native american blood would declare themselves, we would be the largest group< what say all of you???????? your chickasaw sister nancy

well sd Ronald... Im not choctaw, but chickasaw, but monitor this site because I just might find some connections... nancy, a chickasaw sister

Nancy wrote: "Geez....I know its durogatory, now can we get past that and try to help each other???" At the rate you are going here, probably not. I watch this site and others looking for the lost members of my family, as do many other Indians in Oklahoma. Often, a person only knows that they are Indian with family ties to Oklahoma. Many Indians from several Tribes silently watch different lists for the lost members. However, what I have read in the words and seen in the hearts of this list tonight, makes this a place where I do not want to spend my time. I am not a member of the Choctaw Tribe, but I have many Choctaw friends who I know would feel unwelcome here. The recent attitude of this list continues to demonstrate a blatant disregard and disrespect for Indians. You are not likely to find the help you want from Indians with this attitude. Remember this: It is not the Indians who desire your help, but you who desire the help of the Indians. Scope ----- Original Message ----- From: <TNanciten@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Also offended by the word! > well scope, i was chastized for telling a story, trying to bring home a > point.. > and was told few would help me if I used the word Squaw..I wasnt using it > I was telling what the whites called my great grandmother when she married my > g-pa..not using the word myself?? Geez....I know its durogatory, now can we > get past that and try to help each other??? > > Nancy > A Chickasaw Sister > > > ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > Looking for your Native American Ancestors in > Pushmataha County, Oklahoma? > Have a look -- http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma/ >

Unsubscribe please. ----- Original Message ----- From: <CHOCTAW-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <CHOCTAW-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 11:24 PM Subject: CHOCTAW-D Digest V00 #72

Don't leave the list Nalora! WE NEED YOU! What one small minded person says is of no consequence compared to the selfless help you have provided countless others in our search for ancestors. PLEASE COME BACK! gfaye <><><> Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] My apologies and goodbye Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:42:35 -0000 From: "Sharon DeLoache" <deloache@intellex.com> To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com "There is no possible way that anyone can be all things to all people, and there are some people to whom we hope that we will never be anything. The person who criticized Nalora for using the word "SQUAW" is one for whom I feel nothing but contempt. How dare he (or she) be so small minded and so totally unaware of the incredible work that Nalora has done for us all--an absolutely thankless task evidently. To attack such a person as Nalora for using such a word in its HISTORICAL CONTEXT is absolutely unconscionable. I am so furious and so saddened by this display of mindless "political correctness". It is impossible to clean up our past in regard to its language--it is a cast in stone historical fact. In such a forum as this genealogical one if in no other, we should all realize that the past is set regardless of how we happen to feel concerning it. We can not change it, nor can we change the words which were used in the past. WE CANNOT JUDGE THE PAST NOR ITS VOCABULARY BY OUR PRESENT DAY ATTITUDES. I can only hope that Nalora will "consider the source" of the individual who was so vehement in his (her) opposition to an historically accurate term."

I want to say one more thing, then leave this subject... This is a FRIEND we are discussing, not a resource! > I understand that you do not want to lose your good resource... >

Jacque said: "I also take offense when someone doesn't like what she has to say." I would like to see you and your list accept and not challenge what Indians have to say about the word Squaw. Who here is the expert on the heart of an Indian? How can you take offense when you were not offended by the word? I understand that you do not want to lose your good resource, but is she so fragile that she cannot change one word in respect for an entire race of people? Jacque said: "At least she is honest and only states historical facts (as she interprets them) or as others have interpreted them in the books she reads." I find many primary sources using the word "nigger" however I would never reuse that word except when using it, is the only way to make a point, such as I am doing here. I believe this to be also true of every subscriber on this list. Is it so hard for you to extend the same courtesy to the same Indians you wish to share their information? Why is it so difficult to accept this term as racist? It really requires little effort on your part to change your word in order to avoid disrespecting Indians. Jacque said: "Why can't history be that and not a continual thorn in our sides today?" This evening's conversations provide an excellent example of how History demonstrates little change in the attitudes and hearts of non-Indians toward Indians. Do you not understand? No one said the lady using the word was worthless, yet you defend her as though she is not capable of increasing her knowledge and her vocabulary by just one word. It would be so much simpler to accept the truth of the word in that it is racist. And in doing so, you would demonstrate a heart capable of respect and honor. Scope

Nalora I certainely was not offended by the term and the message was for me! I truely appreciate all the information you have given me . I also noted, after reading many weeks of newsletters that you have helped many more. Thank you. Linda

Nancy, I'm just trying to find out IF I have any Choctaw ancestors, and Narola helped look up some things for me. I have the utmost respect for all the Nations. ----- Original Message ----- From: <TNanciten@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 11:53 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] SQUAW - Facts on the Eradication of the "S" Word#72 > well sd Ronald... Im not choctaw, but chickasaw, but monitor this site because > I just might find some connections... > > nancy, a chickasaw sister > > > ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > Pushmataha County, Oklahoma -- > http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma >

Your point is well taken, but might I remind you that this is the Choctaw-L List, a list for Choctaws by blood and others with an affinity for the Choctaw nation. The use of ANY term on THIS list is used "among friends" and as such is NOT derogatory. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scope" <scope@ou.edu> To: <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 11:20 PM Subject: [CHOCTAW] SQUAW - Facts on the Eradication of the "S" Word#72 > http://www.main.nc.us/wncceib/squaw.htm > SQUAW - Facts on the Eradication of the "S" Word

To Scope, You want to talk about respect? What happened to the respect due Nolora for all the GENUINE help she is giving people trying to find thier ancestors??!! I am Choctaw, nothing to prove, monitoring this site to find lost relatives and trace my tribe back because I am also S.E. Cherokee. Notice I did not call myself Indian (speaking of respect) since I am of the Native People of this land and none of my family ever came from India. A few drunk, diseased Europeans didn't know where they were and out of RESPECT for my people, I refuse to let a bunch of sailors define us. Squaw was notice past tense here, was, used regularly just like nigger, cracker, and a bunch of other derogetory words. If you go back to some earlier American writings, you will find these words used regularly when describing the " lower class" along with some slave manifests, marrige certificates, and other legal documents. That doesn't make it ok then and it is certainly not ok now. You have to look at things in the context of history and remember where they came from in order to NEVER ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN AGAIN. Nalora was not calling anyone a squaw, she was relaying information from a document or story... that tells you how old the story is, what period it came from, and language can help you to pinpoint a timeperiod in order to know where to look up records. No disrespect was intended obviously. Like I said, she did not call anyone a squaw. If she did, then yes, there would be something to be upset about and let me tell you I would be leading the charge... and I have on several occasions. Nalora is deserving of respect, she has helped a lot of people. We all need to get past this misunderstanding and do what we should do best, stick together and support oneanother. There aren't enough of us to fight weather Chickasaw, Choctaw, Cherokee, Lakota, Creek, whatever tribe we belong to we are one people and we need to stand as one people. We all seem to agree that the present USE of squaw is derogatory and should not be used by ANYONE, but in the context of history, it could be a reminder of what we will never allow again to happen to us... Dani Ho!! ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

http://www.main.nc.us/wncceib/squaw.htm SQUAW - Facts on the Eradication of the "S" Word American Indian women and men all around the United States and Canada reject the use of the word squaw in reference to American Indian women. The word has been imposed on our culture by European Americans and appears on hundreds of geographic place names. Suzan Shown Harjo brought the issue to national attention on the Oparh Winfrey Show back in 1992. Since that time projects to eliminate the use of the word on geographic sites have formed in Minnesota (Dawn Litzau and Angelene Losh), in Arizona (Delena Waddle and Seipe Flood), in California (Stormy Ogden), and in Iowa (Fawn Stubben). Many other states are forming groups to erradicate the use of the word from geographic place names and women's sports teams. 1.When people argue that the word squaw appears in the dictionary, remind them that the word is also identified as derogatory. The Thesaurus of Slang lists the term squaw as a synonym for prostitute, harlot, hussy, and floozy. 2.When people argue that the word originates in American Indian language point out that: In the Algonquin languages the word squaw means vagina. In the Mohawk language the word otsikwaw means female genitalia. Mohawk women and men found that early European fur traders shortened the word to squaw because that represented what they wanted from Mohawk women. Although scholarship traces the word to the Massachusset Indians back in the 1650s, the word has different meanings (or may not exist at all) in hundreds of other American Indian languages. This claim also assumes that a European correctly translated the Massachusset language to English--that he understood the nuances of Indian speech. Attitudes of white supremacy account for the need of seperate identifing terms such as squaw and buck. In order to justify the taking of the land, American Indian women and men had to be labled with dehumanitizing terms. Europeans and European Americans spread the use of the word as they moved westward across the continent. 3.When people say "it never used to bother Indian women to be called squaw, respond with the following questions and statement. Were American Indian women of people ever asked? Have you ever asked an American Indian woman, man, or child how they feel about the word? (Do not say the word yourself, simply call it the "s" word) then state that it has always been used to insult American Indian women. 4.When people ask "why now?" explain that: Through communication and education American Indian people have come to understand the derogatory meaning of the word. American Indian women claim the right to define ourselves as women and we reject the offensive term squaw. (taken from the web page of American Indian Movement, Southern California Chapter) "American Indians are a living people NOT mascots" BACK TO INDIAN MASCOT PAGE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Western North Carolina Citizens For An End To Institutional Bigotry (WNCCEIB) PO Box 18640 Asheville, NC 28814 Tel: 828-669-6677 Fax 828-669-8862 e-mail: wncceib@buncombe.main.nc.us

Nalora: Remember the old "sticks and stones may....." ? Come on let's come back to the clan! Carmen McDaniel Forbes At 12:04 AM 3/23/00 EST, you wrote: >Nalora > I certainely was not offended by the term and the message was for me! I >truely appreciate all the information you have given me . I also noted, >after reading many weeks of newsletters that you have helped many more. >Thank you. >Linda > > >==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== >OK Surname Registry - added yours? http://www.rootsweb.com/~oknames/ >Search 4 surnames - http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/search.htm > >