Carol: I sent you the e-mail address in the first response to Harlan. Read it on the last line. Sandi :)

the first website is what I have under 'favorites' but is there any way to e-mail him?

Hi Carol: Try clicking on the below. <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~Chester_M/">Harlan's Genealogy Pages</A> If that doesn't work, click on the below and in your search do "Harlan's genealogy." <A HREF="http://www.dogpile.com/">Dogpile</A> Let me know if this works for you. Love, Sandi :)

Nalora, Thanks for posting this information. This helps me narrow down a marraige date for one of my (actually my husbands)Walkers who was Choctaw that married a Chickasaw. From The Journal of Chickasaw History Vol 5 Number 3 1999 In the 1870's - To discourage the marriage of non-citizens to Chickasaws, the legislature passed a law requiring non-citizens to remain in the Chickasaw Nation for two years before they could get a license to marry a citizen of the nation. The law also said that non-citizens pay $50 for a license. This provision was meant to discourage the lower class of whites from intermarrying with Chickasaw women. Non-Citizens also needed the recommendation of five good responsible citizens to the applicant's good moral character and industrious habits. Section 3 provided that if the union of a citizen and non-citizen was broken, and the non-citizen contracted another marriage to a non-citizen, that individual would lose all tribal rights and privileges. Was there a similar law in Choctaw Tribe? Shari >From: Nalora <vashti@theshop.net> >Reply-To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] intermarriage >Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 07:49:23 -0600 > >From "Leaders and Leading Men of the Indian Territory", >Vol. I, Choctaws and Chickasaws >By H. F. O'Beirne >published 1891. : > >page 17 "The Choctaws" > >During the presidency of Jackson we find the Choctaws occupying a >considerable tract of country in Mississippi and living under the >government of a king who usually inherited the royal office. > Prior to the revolutionary war several kings were appointed the British, >and still further back the french were instrumental in choosing the crowned >head. > Next in order came the chiefs, each "iksa" or clan, having one principal >and subordinate chiefs. The captains and warriors were ranked next, being >dominant over the tillers of the soil, etc., etc. The principal "iksas" or >clans were the Hyah-pah-tuk-kalo (twin lakes), Okalla-fal-lah-ya (long >people), Okalla-hun-nah-lay (six towns) Chickasaw-hay (Chickasaws), >Koon-chas, and the Imok-lu-sha. > These clans lived apart from each other and never married outside their >own "iksa," it being a very serious breach of the law and punishable until >1836, when the act was happily repealed." > > >Nalora > > > >==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== >Please support wonderful & FREE genealogy on the internet. Join >Rootsweb.com today! > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

In a message dated 03/26/2000 12:55:17 PM Central Standard Time, SandKatC@aol.com writes: << htpp://members.tripod.com/~Chester_M >> boo hoo - not found

A question for those with an understanding of life in Indian Territory in 1902....... Would it have been to a woman's advantage to lie to the Commission of the Five Civilized Tribes in 1902 during testimony for application for enrollment as a citizen by marriage about her race or prior marriage? Would "white" have gained her any advantage over "mixed" (white and other tribes)? Would "no prior marriage" be better on the application for any reason? My husbands ggrandmother, Alice Martin, married Frank Holloway,"Choctaw by blood". To get her Choctaw citizenship Alice was required to testify before the Commission at Muskogee in 1902. In this testimony, Alice stated that she was white, had never been married, and had lived in Indian Territory for several years before marrying Frank. Family lore says she was possibly of mixed blood from another tribe and had 2 children living with her with the last name of Barnes. Maybe this is just a matter of family lore being incorrect, but I would appreciate the opinions of those who know more about life in Indian Territory. Thanks. Barbara

Hi Carol: Thought you wanted his e-mail address! <htpp://members.tripod.com/~Chester_M/> Thar she is! Sandi :)

but how do you get to his web site?

OOPS! I meant LDS churches, not LDA! Sorry, Sandi :)

Hi Nalora and all: In California the people in the Family History Centers at LDA churches are most helpful and gracious. Been there, done that. Sandi :)

Hi Carol: The below is what I found. Sandi :) Harlan's Genealogy Pages This page has been visited times since December 1997 Harlan McGuire Harlan's Genealogy Pages HARLAN'S GENEALOGY PAGES Thank you for visiting Harlan s Genealogy Pages. Thank You. WELCOME TO MY SITE! I HOPE YOU WILL FIND WHO YOU ARE RESEARCHING. THIS. members.tripod.com

Hi Rusty: Thanks! Sandi :)

Am looking For parentage for George Frazier called "Black George" Frazier born ca. 1850-60. Dark native american. In Kentucky by 1874 when he md. an Allen in Clay County. Separated/divorced by 1879. I don't know where he came from or his parentage. anyone? Karen

My great grandmother was HANNAH TRAHERN DELOACH CARTWRIGHT (#8026). Her mother was REBECCA LONG who married WILLIAM TRAHERN. A cousin said he found on 18?? census in Mississippi that REBECCA LONG's parents were FELICITY LEFLORE and SAMUEL LONG. Then someone online said SAMUEL LONG didn't have a daughter REBECCA. I tried to send an e-mail to Harlan McGuire who set up the LeFlore web site but it came back as unknown(cmcgu48108@aol.com) Can anyone help me here?

Thanks David! I am not an expert on the LDS FHC's since most of my research is done at the Oklahoma Historical Society. I am aware, because of my own enlightenment when I first began doing family research that for those who do not live in the State of Oklahoma (and even those who do, but do not live near enough to the OHS) that there is usually an LDS FHC nearby where there is access to most of the microfilms available at the Archives. One must realize that to the Latter Day Saints the idea of genealogy is not just a hobby, but a spiritual and religious imperitive, so they are very good at collecting the records of our ancestors in their repository, and are also (at least in my experience) very helpful as far as their volunteers go. One must be patient in the smaller FHC, as the volunteers are few. But patience pays off in great reward for genealogists using this wonderful resource. Nalora

Dear Nalora, Thank you too!!! I wish I lived close to the OHS, but then I wish I lived close to about 50 other great centers of research. :-) As you point out, the great advantage to the LDS, FHC's is that there is one nearby to just about everyone (OK already... I heard that groan from the Yukon!). I received some personal inquiries about the availability of the records I spoke of so I thought I would clarify, here, a bit. Sorry, but I tend to be a little too detail orientated (my wife, Linda, calls it something else :-) ) so I have been trying to work on being more concise and missed a couple of important points. The 3 files I wrote about are not on line. I think there are plans for doing so but this will probably be a lengthy process. Even so, these files will only lead you to the microfilms that are available. You will then need to rent the ones that interest you. For now your only options are to go to your local FHC to do this. What is available on line are the International Genealogy Index, the IGI, and the Personal Ancestral File, the PAF, but these are only useful for finding families through the use of surnames and they should be used only as a clue to further research because they can be unreliable. You can access them at: <www.familysearch.org> As a rule abiding RootsWeb member, I will not engage in the type of conversation that has permeated the list over the last few days, but I hope I will be forgiven if I stick in a "Happy you're still with us" here. :-) Yours truly, David At 10:24 AM 03/26/2000 -0600, you wrote: >Thanks David! I am not an expert on the LDS FHC's since most of my research >is done at the Oklahoma Historical Society. I am aware, because of my own >enlightenment when I first began doing family research that for those who >do not live in the State of Oklahoma (and even those who do, but do not >live near enough to the OHS) that there is usually an LDS FHC nearby where >there is access to most of the microfilms available at the Archives. One >must realize that to the Latter Day Saints the idea of genealogy is not >just a hobby, but a spiritual and religious imperitive, so they are very >good at collecting the records of our ancestors in their repository, and >are also (at least in my experience) very helpful as far as their >volunteers go. One must be patient in the smaller FHC, as the volunteers >are few. But patience pays off in great reward for genealogists using this >wonderful resource. >Nalora

Thank you Sandi, we all need that I am sure. I have both Cherokee & Choctaw blood and have just moved to Arkansas and am looking forward to getting to know my people. Eula

From "Leaders and Leading Men of the Indian Territory", Vol. I, Choctaws and Chickasaws By H. F. O'Beirne published 1891. : page 17 "The Choctaws" During the presidency of Jackson we find the Choctaws occupying a considerable tract of country in Mississippi and living under the government of a king who usually inherited the royal office. Prior to the revolutionary war several kings were appointed the British, and still further back the french were instrumental in choosing the crowned head. Next in order came the chiefs, each "iksa" or clan, having one principal and subordinate chiefs. The captains and warriors were ranked next, being dominant over the tillers of the soil, etc., etc. The principal "iksas" or clans were the Hyah-pah-tuk-kalo (twin lakes), Okalla-fal-lah-ya (long people), Okalla-hun-nah-lay (six towns) Chickasaw-hay (Chickasaws), Koon-chas, and the Imok-lu-sha. These clans lived apart from each other and never married outside their own "iksa," it being a very serious breach of the law and punishable until 1836, when the act was happily repealed." Nalora

At 06:52 AM 3/26/00 -0600, you wrote: > > > Nalora thanks for the information on where to check the other >Indian tribes rolls. Do you perchance know if the LDS are going to >microfilm the county documents in Atoka county of which someone on the >list spoke about how the records were in a basement just going to waste >and were being eating by rats annd mice? I would have to check my past "Mistletoe Leaves" Newsletters to know exactly where they are, right now. But you know, you could always write them and ask them about it. By the way, you get a copy of Mistletoe Leaves Newsletter and the quarterly publication "Chronicles of Oklahoma" when you join the Oklahoma Historical Society. It is not that expensive to join, and the Chronicles alone are worth the price of membership. Nalora

At 06:22 AM 3/26/00 -0600, you wrote: >There's a little more to the story... This second marriage was in 1894. His >first wife died before the 1896 Dawes commission or act or census went into >effect, so although she was Choctaw, she was not on the roll. His own >application was denied. Isn't that interesting? But then DAWES was so sticky about putting someone on the rolls who was white. All those who were "Choctaw by Adoption" went by the wayside. All those men who had been adopted into the tribe by virtue or their worth to the tribe...but, when you were talkin' DAWES, you were talkin' money... Nalora