Tammy, For the children of Chief Thomas LeFlore, I have: 1.Adam,2. Levicy, 3.Forbis, 4.Henretta, 5.Sarah who married Cornelius Garland,6. Michael, 7. Laris who married Morris Garland, brother to Cornelius Garland, 8.Louisa, 9.Sarbell (she could be Susan or Sarah or a completely different person) 10. Louie, 11. Israel. Wallace is not a son of Chief Thomas LeFlore. Sandra

One of the legends is that the Choctaws "came from under the sea." I teach Choctaw culture and of the several creation legends, this is the first I've ever heard of one that states we came from the sea. Could you tell me a little more about this? dustyc@microgear.net

Sandra, Were all 11 children from the same wife? I was reading an article at the website of Debbie about "SHAKAPAHONA " SOOKIE " ( PUSLEY ) LeFLORE Wife of Chief Thomas " Tom" LeFlore By Alma Mason http://genweb.net/Oxford/somiss.htm It stated she was the mother of seven children? Tammy p.s. Thanks for all your help! From: <Oklafalaya@aol.com> To: <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Chief Thomas LeFlore of the Choctaw Nation > Tammy, > For the children of Chief Thomas LeFlore, I have: > 1.Adam,2. Levicy, 3.Forbis, 4.Henretta, 5.Sarah who married Cornelius > Garland,6. Michael, 7. Laris who married Morris Garland, brother to Cornelius > Garland, 8.Louisa, 9.Sarbell (she could be Susan or Sarah or a completely > different person) 10. Louie, 11. Israel. > > Wallace is not a son of Chief Thomas LeFlore. > Sandra > > > ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > Please support wonderful & FREE genealogy on the internet. Join Rootsweb.com today! http://www.rootsweb.com > >

Hi Mandy: I put your yahoo addy in my address book. I'm glad you home teach. That way your children will get a fuller education, I believe. And, hear the truth of the way it REALLY was back then, not with the US gov't wants us to know. Sandi :)

Something is amiss I think when some of these people are talking about a separate tribe within the Choctaws called Sha-chi-homas. As we know it was a matriarchal society and there were a number of clans. I have a list of those somewhere. For a while I thought there were only a few. There was a next higher order I think called moities. The clans had separate names. One associated with Jerico Perkins family, i.e. a nephew Henry Perkins was said to be a descendant of the Hiyahpatukalo (close) clan, which was also said by some to be called the house of kings. I thought this might have also been true for Jerico, but was told it came from Henry's mother's family. Literally, I was told it means where two waters come together. There was a tribe assimilated by the Choctaws in Mississippi, one of whose last remaining members was a lady named Shumaka and was the mother of Choctaw Chief Robert Cole. Although I am not certain, I think her tribe was called the Chiamechas (?). I thought they were almost decimated by the Chickasaw or Creeks. I find interesting that there is a Mexican tribe of Indians with a name very similar. One of the legends is that the Choctaws "came from under the sea." I was told a while back there is a lady researcher/writer who is propounding a theory along these lines with quite a bit of supporting material. I know a professor who has done considerable research on the Coles. Chris Morgan, now of Michigan, is a fine researcher, very thorough, but even the best make mistakes--at times. I think I have also seen Green McCurtain's grave, but I thought it is in the cemetery at Tuskahoma. I have several members of the Leathers (white) family buried there. I too found it fascinating to see his grave after hearing his name all my life--the broken slab of concrete is there as well as the iron fence. Sure looks snaky. My family roots are very deep in those Kiamichi Mountains. I will be going back to Clayton and the Leathers' family reunion in June so I may have an opportunity to check it out again. That isn't San Bois County though. Green McCurtain signed the surety bond for my Turner B. Turnbull Jr. in clearing him of the murder warrant when he finally gave up after being a (Judge Parker's) wanted man for 13 years (as said by Turner's son in law). He was apparently pardoned by the president--oddly enough all the rest charged (6 of them) were dead and the remaining witness said Turner was not there that day. Probably a wise witness. Edward Gardner is also name mentioned as a riding buddy of the Turnbull boys. Supposedly he was charged with a murder of an old woman and two little girls that Simeon Turnbull confessed to on his death bed. I think they were ever bit as ruthless as the other gangs, but managed to stay on the ride side of the law most of the time and were called "vigilantes." Just a little matter of killing that black man or so when on just a lark, the way I read it. You should hear some of the family defend that one. I have come across many names in my work on this Turnbull bunch. How do I access the material that you sent me? I don't see any down load capability or do you subscribe to the service. Please feel free to use anything I send you. If anyone wants to challenge anything, I believe I have documentation for just about all of it or I can explain how I arrived such a conclusion. Fortunately or unfortunately, family stories usually have a grain of truth in them. There are some very odd family ties that I know can't be true for the Turnbulls around Caddo, but little by little I think they are shaking out. For many it is because the time frames can't be made accurate. There is a lady at Atoka maybe a Hampton connection, who is so sure Turner Jr. is the father of one of her ancestors, but from a time stand point it just couldn't be. The person she thinks he fathered is about 4 years difference in age. Many people again quote back to me, my Great uncle "Sig" James M. Flinchum's work published from the Dallas Genealogical society or whatever, but it isn't correct. Not much to be done about it, I guess.

Looking for John Daniel, Pontotoc Co., Missi. bought land, Chickasaw issued. Year, 1845 Could have been a Choctaw or Chickasaw, himself. Marian in Texas

Looking for the Choctaw family, Pock om e chubbe, ??wife, Po tubbee, land in Claiborne Co., Missi. Marian in Texas

-----Original Message----- From: tim mccratic [mailto:timothy.mccratic@mciworld.com] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 10:23 AM To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [CHOCTAW] Shak-Chi-Homas Tribe? Jami, May I pass this to a Cole cousin if mine? Lisa McCratic -----Original Message----- From: Jamialane@aol.com [mailto:Jamialane@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 3:47 PM To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Shak-Chi-Homas Tribe? I received this several years ago from Mr. Joe Hock: An ancient story among the Choctaws tells of a band of Indians known as Shak-chi-homas, being led by Chief Cha-La-homa (Red Fox). They were known to have campsites down along the Mississippi in Western Tennesse, while the Choctaws and Chickasaws ranged to the south of the area. The Shak-Chi-homas considered the Choctaws and Chickasaws their enemies and on occasion had killed members of hunting parties and trappers of their villages. These killings eventually caused the massacre of the Shak-Chi-homa, and as a seperate tribe they no longer existed. Among the captives was a lovely girl named Shomaka. She was adopted by the Choctaws and later married a white man, whose name was Cole. They became the parents of Robert Cole, who became a most respected member of the tribe and served as District Chief from 1824 to 1826. Shomaka's daughter married District Chief Cornelieus McCurtain. Cornelious and Mahayia had seven children; Jackson Frazier, Isabelle, Elsie, David, Edmond, Green and Robert. Three of whick became Tribal Chiefs; Jackson, Edmond and Green. And this is from Sandra Riley: # 148 Shumaka, represented to be more than a 120 years old (this deposition taken in 1838) the last of the Chocchuma race, unable to attend. Joshua T. Brown, counsel. Coleman Cole, a 3/4 blood Choctaw, a witness for claimant, being sworn, deposes as follows; That he is acquainted with Shumaka; she is his grandmother; has known her as long as he can recollect; saw her about 20 days since; she was then at Puttacacowa Creek, where she lived on (witnesses land); she is very old; she is represented to be 120 eyars old; she is unable to travel any distance. At the time of the treaty she lived on Bittupinbogue about 18 or 19 miles from its mouth. She had then no child living with her; she was visited by her grand-children at that time, but no person lived there. She lived there at and before the treaty, and remained there until the land she lived on was sold by the government at the first land sales at Chocchuma, after which a white man required her to move. Before this she had a house and field, in which she lived. He (witness) assisted her in making a crop. he has no recollection of her husband his frandfather. He has heard her say she belonged to the Chocchuma tribe; that she was very young at the massacre of her tribe by the Chickasaws and others; she made her husband escape, and got among the Choctaws, who adopted her as a Choctaw. She is the mother of Robert Cole, the witness's father. The Chocchumas lived in a village, and were surprised by the Chickasaws at break of day, and were all murdered with few exceptions; they were killing them all day. About 200 excaped among the Choctaws. These were merged in the Choctaw tribe, and the Chocchuma name abandoned. Her faculties are in great degree unimipaired; she can see to work with her naked eyes, hears well etc. She belonged to Lewis Perry's company at the date put on Nelson's list, at the council at Nelson's by her request, as he heard Nelson say at the time he was taking other names. Nelson told him he was going to put her name down, and he saw him immediately write. Hope this helps Jami Hamilton http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jami ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== Pushmataha County, Oklahoma -- http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma/PushCo.html ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== Please support wonderful & FREE genealogy on the internet. Join Rootsweb.com today! http://www.rootsweb.com

Jami, May I pass this to a Cole cousin if mine? Lisa McCratic -----Original Message----- From: Jamialane@aol.com [mailto:Jamialane@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 3:47 PM To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Shak-Chi-Homas Tribe? I received this several years ago from Mr. Joe Hock: An ancient story among the Choctaws tells of a band of Indians known as Shak-chi-homas, being led by Chief Cha-La-homa (Red Fox). They were known to have campsites down along the Mississippi in Western Tennesse, while the Choctaws and Chickasaws ranged to the south of the area. The Shak-Chi-homas considered the Choctaws and Chickasaws their enemies and on occasion had killed members of hunting parties and trappers of their villages. These killings eventually caused the massacre of the Shak-Chi-homa, and as a seperate tribe they no longer existed. Among the captives was a lovely girl named Shomaka. She was adopted by the Choctaws and later married a white man, whose name was Cole. They became the parents of Robert Cole, who became a most respected member of the tribe and served as District Chief from 1824 to 1826. Shomaka's daughter married District Chief Cornelieus McCurtain. Cornelious and Mahayia had seven children; Jackson Frazier, Isabelle, Elsie, David, Edmond, Green and Robert. Three of whick became Tribal Chiefs; Jackson, Edmond and Green. And this is from Sandra Riley: # 148 Shumaka, represented to be more than a 120 years old (this deposition taken in 1838) the last of the Chocchuma race, unable to attend. Joshua T. Brown, counsel. Coleman Cole, a 3/4 blood Choctaw, a witness for claimant, being sworn, deposes as follows; That he is acquainted with Shumaka; she is his grandmother; has known her as long as he can recollect; saw her about 20 days since; she was then at Puttacacowa Creek, where she lived on (witnesses land); she is very old; she is represented to be 120 eyars old; she is unable to travel any distance. At the time of the treaty she lived on Bittupinbogue about 18 or 19 miles from its mouth. She had then no child living with her; she was visited by her grand-children at that time, but no person lived there. She lived there at and before the treaty, and remained there until the land she lived on was sold by the government at the first land sales at Chocchuma, after which a white man required her to move. Before this she had a house and field, in which she lived. He (witness) assisted her in making a crop. he has no recollection of her husband his frandfather. He has heard her say she belonged to the Chocchuma tribe; that she was very young at the massacre of her tribe by the Chickasaws and others; she made her husband escape, and got among the Choctaws, who adopted her as a Choctaw. She is the mother of Robert Cole, the witness's father. The Chocchumas lived in a village, and were surprised by the Chickasaws at break of day, and were all murdered with few exceptions; they were killing them all day. About 200 excaped among the Choctaws. These were merged in the Choctaw tribe, and the Chocchuma name abandoned. Her faculties are in great degree unimipaired; she can see to work with her naked eyes, hears well etc. She belonged to Lewis Perry's company at the date put on Nelson's list, at the council at Nelson's by her request, as he heard Nelson say at the time he was taking other names. Nelson told him he was going to put her name down, and he saw him immediately write. Hope this helps Jami Hamilton http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jami ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== Pushmataha County, Oklahoma -- http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma/PushCo.html

Does anyone have the descendants of Chief Thomas LeFlore of the Choctaw Nation? He was elected Chief of Apuckshunubbi District in 1834. Tammy Dice Jones wjones@texhoma.net

Sandi, I will wait. But, it's not for genealogy reasons, just interested. I really do appreciate your wanting to send information to me. I think that it is interesting....you know, what the public schools think what history should be printed in history books and what shouldn't. ......you can tell that I home school, hu? Well, anyway, when you get the information, would you please send it to this address: doctmous@yahoo.com ? Thank You, Mandy On Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:49:11 EDT SandKatC@aol.com writes: > Hi Mandy: > > I'll be happy to share what my cousin sends on the James gang > stopping by > Uncle Buck Fitzpatrick's farm. I'll have to e-mail him again soon > as a > reminder. We do tend to be impatient when we are waiting for > genealogy > information, no? > > Best, Sandi :) > > > ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > OK Surname Registry - added yours? http://www.rootsweb.com/~oknames/ > Search 4 surnames - http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/search.htm >

I too, would like to know more of the Cole line. My mother's maiden name is Cole. Her family is from Arkansas, some went to OK. They came from Indiana. Too busy looking into my husband's lines and my Thompson line. Never thought about the Cole's. Lisa Anne (Thompson) McCratic -----Original Message----- From: melissa shaver [mailto:ndngrrl@webtv.net] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 6:02 PM To: CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CHOCTAW] COLE Does anyone have the cole last name in their search? i would love to hear from anyone as per this is the first time i have ever heard the cole name associated with choctaw (you know the old line...my granparents told me....)i was told that was a choctaw name but this robert cole mentioned on this list is the first that i have heard. I am looking for Sarrah Malindy Cole (Wren) She was born March 2, 1874 in Chusman AR Died March 1, 1954 in Henrietta, OK. Sincerely Melisa ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== Please support wonderful & FREE genealogy on the internet. Join Rootsweb.com today! http://www.rootsweb.com

Recieved this on another list. Thought it might be of interest to anyone who has travel plans. To one and all; As many of you know Fort Worth was hit by a tornado this past tuesday. The Fort Worth Public Library did sustain damage. At this time the library is closed both to the public and staff. All the glass in the building was blown out; the air conditioning system was destroyed and there is water damage. The rare books section of the Genealogy/Local History/City Archives has had water damage. We have not been able to get back into the library to see if there is structural damage. Please advise one and all that if you are planning a research trip to the Fort Worth Public Library to phone before you come. We are hoping that the staff will be able to get into the building on monday. I will keep this listserv updated on the conditions of the library and collection. If anyone has any questions please have them email me at the address listed here. Sincerely, Shirley Apley, Senior Librarian Genealogy/Local History/City Archives Fort Worth Public Library 500 West 3rd Street Fort Worth, TX 76112

thanks!

There are many Coles that are Choctaw, below is some of mine: (all are full blood) Descendants of Wilson Cole 1 Wilson Cole b: Abt. 1865 .......... 2 Anice Cole b: March 1, 1898 d: October 3, 1980 .............. +Aurora Noah b: May 13, 1900 d: May 29, 1966 Father: Irvin Noah Mother: Sibbey __________ ....................... 3 Irvin Cole b: June 12, 1927 d: October 1, 1997 .......................... +Ida Jones b: June 18, 1920 in Atoka Co., Oklahoma m: Bef. 1948 d: April 14, 1960 Father: Israel Jones Mother: Annie Payne ....................... *2nd Wife of Irvin Cole: .......................... +Nora Ruth Scott m: Bet. 1960 - 1969 Tammy Dice Jones wjones@texhoma.net ----- Original Message ----- From: melissa shaver <ndngrrl@webtv.net> To: <CHOCTAW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 5:02 PM Subject: [CHOCTAW] COLE > Does anyone have the cole last name in their search? i would love to > hear from anyone as per this is the first time i have ever heard the > cole name associated with choctaw (you know the old line...my > granparents told me....)i was told that was a choctaw name but this > robert cole mentioned on this list is the first that i have heard. I > am looking for Sarrah Malindy Cole (Wren) She was born March 2, 1874 in > Chusman AR Died March 1, 1954 in Henrietta, OK. > > Sincerely > Melisa > > > ==== CHOCTAW Mailing List ==== > Please support wonderful & FREE genealogy on the internet. Join Rootsweb.com today! http://www.rootsweb.com > >

At 07:15 PM 04/06/2000 -0500, Marian Watson wrote: >I am looking for the e-mail address of the Bureau of Land Management-General Office Records. I saw it on one of my web pages. Was it the Choctaw web? Marian in Texas The BLM website is: http://www.blm.gov/nhp/index.htm There's a link there to directories. Gene Phillips

In a message dated 04/06/2000 4:52:21 PM Central Daylight Time, vashti@theshop.net writes: << http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=298021847 >> question - I have my grandmother's Indian land allotment but they look different than the one on e-bay. Were the papers different even tho hers were Choctaw also? Carol

At 08:40 PM 4/6/00 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 04/06/2000 4:52:21 PM Central Daylight Time, >vashti@theshop.net writes: > ><< http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=298021847 > >> >question - I have my grandmother's Indian land allotment but they look >different than the one on e-bay. Were the papers different even tho hers >were Choctaw also? A patent is the original. An abstract is everyone who owned the land after the original patent. Basically, a history of the land after the patent. A patent or warranty deed is the original deed to the land from the Government. Nalora

Forwarded Message: > To: hopkinsj@ida.net > From: Linda Humphrey <lhumphrey@lane.k12.ok.us> > Subject: Finding Roll Numbers > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 02:51:35 -0600 > ----- > I am librarian of the Lane Public School in the community of Lane (Atoka County). Recently some residents of our community ask about the best method for finding their family roll number. I am not familiar with the locations of this information in our area nor am I aware of any Internet site that might have the information. I thought you might direct me to a starting place, perhaps some Internet sites or locations of information that I can make available to these people. > > I appreciate any help you can give me. > > Thank you, > > Linda Humphrey, Librarian > Lane Public School > Forwarding as Linda is not a subscriber, and please email her directly. I told her there are lots of wonderful people on this list with resources that could possibly help her. I gave her the only one I could think of off the top of my head: www.nara.gov, since I am not at home at my computer with my favorite book marked internet sites. Thanks, Jacque from SE ID currently in N ID

I am looking for the e-mail address of the Bureau of Land Management-General Office Records. I saw it on one of my web pages. Was it the Choctaw web? Marian in Texas