Yes, I couldn't find a Sarah - didn't look for Betty. Maybe he did take in other members of his extended family. I noticed that in one year he was Churchwarden of Gawsworth and he signed the register in a beautiful copperplate hand. Sorry I didn't note the year. And yes, a bit more work - sorry again. Ruth -----Original Message----- However, there are two other children mentioned in the will, Sarah and Betty, who I also cannot find although I am still searching. But I am beginning to wonder if Josiah was not of the sound mind and memory he claimed to be. A child called Betty/Elizabeth would be likely as that was the name of his wife. But I have quite a bit more work to do before giving up on them. Thanks again Christine

All from Gawsworth registers: There is a Phebe LEA born illegitimately and baptised on 30 Nov 1805. A possibility perhaps? Haven't gone any further with this. Or she could be a niece - there was a Phoebe WHITTAKERS baptised 28 April 1782 (born 23 March 1782) d/o George and Elizabeth W. Was she taken into the family fold on death of George or Elizabeth perhaps - or for any other reason? Ruth

Hi Marjorie and Ruth, Many thanks for your replies. I thought of Phoebe written as Pheby or some such myself on coming back to it some time later. The fact that two of you also think that gives it a lot of credibility. Unfortunately I cannot find a baptism or any other reference to her. However, there are two other children mentioned in the will, Sarah and Betty, who I also cannot find although I am still searching. But I am beginning to wonder if Josiah was not of the sound mind and memory he claimed to be. A child called Betty/Elizabeth would be likely as that was the name of his wife. But I have quite a bit more work to do before giving up on them. Thanks again Christine -----Original Message----- From: Marjorie Ward Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 11:27 AM To: Christine Benson ; Julie Cc: CHESHIRE mailing list Subject: Re: [CHS] Josiah WHITTAKER Will 1821 Hello Christine My first thought was Pheby but if you take away the first letter the rest is `hely`. Is there any help in the baptism registers?

Hi All, >From replies I have had off list I find I did not make myself clear. Some children, including Mary, have already had their share of the estate as it states later in the will than this line. Presumably they were given it at maturity, marriage or some such. This line is dealing with those who have not had their share. Therefore it is not referring to Mary or a nickname for Mary. I only put the name in in case people looked at the baptisms, found Mary, and made the obvious, but incorrect, deduction. Polly as a name in its own right is just about possible but unlikely. I hope this makes it clear. Christine > On 14 Sep 2014, at 19:39, Christine Benson via <cheshire@rootsweb.com> > wrote: > > Hi All, > > I am looking at the will of Josiah WHITTAKER 1821 and am having difficulty > with one of his children's names. The name is in the middle of the second > page 3 lines above where he makes his mark on the next page. It says > something like :- > and to my daughters Bholy Betty and Fanny an equal share ... > What should Bholy read? > > I cannot find a baptism to help me on Family Search. Mary, a daughter not > mentioned on that line is mentioned later. > > (Josiah was bap 1764, Gawsworth and died 1821, Gawsworth. He married > Elizabeth Snelson 1785 in Gawsworth. Some baptisms refer to her as Betty.) > > Any help, guesses or wild speculation gratefully received > > Christine

Hello Christine My first thought was Pheby but if you take away the first letter the rest is `hely`. Is there any help in the baptism registers? Marjorie Ward Derbyshire, UK Sources for Disley; Lyme Handley; Taxal & Whaley www.disley.net Sources for Hollingworths www.hollingworths.net Sources for NWDby incl Chapel; Charlesworth; Chinley; Fernilee; Glossop; Hayfield; Hope Valley; Mellor & New Mills http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dusk John Ward Paintings: www.johnward-art.com

Hi Christine I suggest that it may be a mis-spelling of Phoebe. The diphthong has thrown the writer into the usual tizzy. It can be read as Phely or Pheb. finishing with a simple downward stroke. Unfortunately, on FMP, I can't find a birth or marriage for such a person in Gawsworth. You may have better luck on FS or Ancestry. I didn't attempt Philomena or Phyllis! Polly is the familial name for Mary Ann - as Josiah has a Mary I didn't attempt that either. Ruth

Hi Christine, My mums name was Mary, but she was always called Molly, hope this may be of help. Regards. Jean > On 15 Sep 2014, at 10:49, Christine Benson via <cheshire@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Hi Julie, > > Many thanks for your reply. Looking at the word on it's own it is just about > possible, but not likely, that it is Polly. However Mary's share in the will > is dealt with elsewhere so it would seem it is not referring to Mary. So > could there possibly be a Polly as a name in its own right. I will look into > that possibility. Unfortunately I do not think it likely. > > Thanks again for your input. > > Christine > > -----Original Message----- > From: Julie > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 3:29 AM > To: Christine Benson > Cc: CHESHIRE mailing list > Subject: Re: [CHS] Josiah WHITTAKER Will 1821 > > Hi Christine > > Could bholy be Polly? My grandmother Mary was always known as Polly and > apparently this was another common name for Mary, although never understood > why. > > Kind regards > > Julie > Sent from my iPad > >> On 14 Sep 2014, at 19:39, Christine Benson via <cheshire@rootsweb.com> >> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I am looking at the will of Josiah WHITTAKER 1821 and am having difficulty >> with one of his children's names. The name is in the middle of the second >> page 3 lines above where he makes his mark on the next page. It says >> something like :- >> and to my daughters Bholy Betty and Fanny an equal share ... >> What should Bholy read? >> >> I cannot find a baptism to help me on Family Search. Mary, a daughter not >> mentioned on that line is mentioned later. >> >> (Josiah was bap 1764, Gawsworth and died 1821, Gawsworth. He married >> Elizabeth Snelson 1785 in Gawsworth. Some baptisms refer to her as Betty.) >> >> Any help, guesses or wild speculation gratefully received >> >> Christine > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Julie, Many thanks for your reply. Looking at the word on it's own it is just about possible, but not likely, that it is Polly. However Mary's share in the will is dealt with elsewhere so it would seem it is not referring to Mary. So could there possibly be a Polly as a name in its own right. I will look into that possibility. Unfortunately I do not think it likely. Thanks again for your input. Christine -----Original Message----- From: Julie Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 3:29 AM To: Christine Benson Cc: CHESHIRE mailing list Subject: Re: [CHS] Josiah WHITTAKER Will 1821 Hi Christine Could bholy be Polly? My grandmother Mary was always known as Polly and apparently this was another common name for Mary, although never understood why. Kind regards Julie Sent from my iPad > On 14 Sep 2014, at 19:39, Christine Benson via <cheshire@rootsweb.com> > wrote: > > Hi All, > > I am looking at the will of Josiah WHITTAKER 1821 and am having difficulty > with one of his children's names. The name is in the middle of the second > page 3 lines above where he makes his mark on the next page. It says > something like :- > and to my daughters Bholy Betty and Fanny an equal share ... > What should Bholy read? > > I cannot find a baptism to help me on Family Search. Mary, a daughter not > mentioned on that line is mentioned later. > > (Josiah was bap 1764, Gawsworth and died 1821, Gawsworth. He married > Elizabeth Snelson 1785 in Gawsworth. Some baptisms refer to her as Betty.) > > Any help, guesses or wild speculation gratefully received > > Christine

Hi Christine Could bholy be Polly? My grandmother Mary was always known as Polly and apparently this was another common name for Mary, although never understood why. Kind regards Julie Sent from my iPad > On 14 Sep 2014, at 19:39, Christine Benson via <cheshire@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I am looking at the will of Josiah WHITTAKER 1821 and am having difficulty > with one of his children's names. The name is in the middle of the second > page 3 lines above where he makes his mark on the next page. It says > something like :- > and to my daughters Bholy Betty and Fanny an equal share ... > What should Bholy read? > > I cannot find a baptism to help me on Family Search. Mary, a daughter not > mentioned on that line is mentioned later. > > (Josiah was bap 1764, Gawsworth and died 1821, Gawsworth. He married > Elizabeth Snelson 1785 in Gawsworth. Some baptisms refer to her as Betty.) > > Any help, guesses or wild speculation gratefully received > > Christine > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi All, I am looking at the will of Josiah WHITTAKER 1821 and am having difficulty with one of his children's names. The name is in the middle of the second page 3 lines above where he makes his mark on the next page. It says something like :- and to my daughters Bholy Betty and Fanny an equal share ... What should Bholy read? I cannot find a baptism to help me on Family Search. Mary, a daughter not mentioned on that line is mentioned later. (Josiah was bap 1764, Gawsworth and died 1821, Gawsworth. He married Elizabeth Snelson 1785 in Gawsworth. Some baptisms refer to her as Betty.) Any help, guesses or wild speculation gratefully received Christine

Hello, I am wondering if anyone has any information about the STUBBS family who established the New Cheshire Salt Works. I am wondering if they are related to my STUBBS family from Wincham. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks. Regards, Christine

The following updates for CheshireBMD have just been announced: -------------- Message from Ian Hartas, Cheshire. Hi, Cheshire BMD has been updated to add: Marriages: 58 for Stockport, St Mark, registers at Stockport (1991-2010) 190 for Stockport, St Matthew, registers at Stockport (1992-2012) Births: 1,001 for Sale, registers at Trafford (1957-1959) 505 for Urmston, registers at Trafford (1952-1952) Many thanks to Geoff Oultram, Peter Greenwood and their respective colleagues. -------------- Bob Kirk Web address: http://kirksoft.co.uk/ Sent from my iPad

An update: I'm still working on the website proposal. Progress is slow as I'm still gathering information about the mechanics and the funding of it all, and gaining support as I go. So far so good. If it's of interest to you take a look here: http://www.communitysites.co.uk who have produced this site http://www.mybrightonandhove.org.uk/category/letterintheattic It may be possible to set up a similar site for Cheshire - or any other County. HLF, which likes to fund oral history, funds local projects not national ones which is why we have to consider just one area at a time. Communitysites can then link them to form a network. I argue that the website proposed is for oral history written down in the days before microphones! Selfishly, I'm suggesting Cheshire as a starting point because the family material I have in my possession belongs to Cheshire (mainly) and Lancashire men and women - but it doesn't have to be Cheshire. Emma Griffin (author of Liberty's Dawn) is supportive and has offered UEA assistance should it be needed - but again it will need funding. It may be that HLF would look at funding a University project from a different viewpoint and accept that as it is not strictly oral history it could be considered for national funding. We wait to see. Watch this space. In the meantime, for lighter relief, take a look at this article which appeared in yesterday's Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/sep/06/my-ancestors-live-in-a-b ox Enjoy! Ruth

This is a message for Bob Kirk who works so hard on the Cheshire BMDs. Yesterday I managed to deliver the Rayner Family Bible to the oldest surviving member of the Rayner Family in Comberbach. She is 93 and still fit as a fiddle and was absolutely thrilled to have the bible. She asked me to pass on her thanks to you, Bob and asked where you came across it. She had another old one, an American Bible with an amazing binding. I am sending this to the Cheshire List as I don't have your up to date email address . Hope it gets to you. Many thanks again, Lyn

>Adrian wrote: >I have raised a feedback saying that this is obscure and that people >looking for specific census search criteria are going to go down the >Census menu option because that's the obvious one, whereas you actually >have to take the obscure A-Z option. I also raised it on their Facebook page and got the format reply that it works off the CENSUS AND LAND SURVEYS, but it doesn't. You have to go to the A-Z option as you state. Well, at least they are aware now. Cheers Graham

Well well.... after much messing about I find the solution! You cannot do it from the original search Census and Land Surveys which is the first option you get when you go to search records. You have to go to the separate Record Sets and type in 1911 Census. How come the option of address wasn't offered by FMP IT people after you type 1911 in the required box on CENSUS AND LAND SURVEYS? Should have been that easy. Grrrr. Cheers Graham

Hi list Does anyone know how to get the new address search working for 1911 on FMP? The instructions don't seem to work either. I've tried half a dozen addresses and come up with ZERO. I know these addresses exist, but FMP doesn't make it easy. Here they are, on their website, stating that we can use the address search on 1911 now, but how? It's all a bit fuzzy. Cheers Graham

<<snipped>> You cannot do it from the original search Census and Land Surveys which is the first option you get when you go to search records. You have to go to the separate Record Sets and type in 1911 Census. How come the option of address wasn't offered by FMP IT people after you type 1911 in the required box on CENSUS AND LAND SURVEYS? <<snipped>> This is a general rule - follow the obvious menu options and you get generic search forms that don't have options specific only to certain datasets. Addresses aren't on all the census type datasets, so the option's not there. You need to pick up the individual specific form obtained (e.g.) via the A-Z list to use dataset-specific parameters. I think, e.g., the most powerful search criteria for BMDs can only be accessed via the A-Z list (or equivalent - there are other ways of getting there). I have raised a feedback saying that this is obscure and that people looking for specific census search criteria are going to go down the Census menu option because that's the obvious one, whereas you actually have to take the obscure A-Z option. Adrian

Hi Joy, Many thanks for your reply. I had found some of those records, however, I had also found lots of others and couldn't sort out the wheat from the chaff. I think your theory on the identity of Sarah SUTTON is probably correct. I have found Josiah on Ancestry in 1861 but he is mis-indexed. The correction should show up in the records shortly. So I have all the data on his second marriage. I will investigate Joshua in 1851 further. That was one of the records I had found but not connected it as well as you have. I suspect the enumerator got the name wrong. Thanks again Christine -----Original Message----- From: Joy Langdon Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 12:18 PM To: christinebenson313@btinternet.com ; cheshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CHS] Sarah SUTTON m 1843 father James GOODWIN ??? On the Chapelry of Wincle burials there is a burial 23 Apr 1848 of a Sarah Whittaker aged 27, abode Sutton, died April 20th and also (same chapel) June 28th 1848 a burial of Sarah Whittaker aged 1 year, abode Sutton, died June 24th. I did find a Joshua Whitaker in 1851, widower, born Gawsworth fancy trimmer living at Lunt Hill, Sutton, Macclesfield, son in law to head of household Mary Thorp, widow, washerwoman born c1793 at Wincle. Included in the household is Hannah Sutton, grandaughter born c1838 and Mary Whitaker born c1844 at Sutton. The surname Sutton in the household seemed a bt of a coincidence and in 1841 there is a Sarah Sutton born c1821 and Hannah Sutton born c1838 in the household of John and Mary Thorp at Bunker Hill, Prestbury, Macclesfield. I couldn't find them in 1861. In 1871 Josiah is in Manchester with wife Alice and stepdaughters. There is a marriage of John Thorp to Mary Sutton at Prestbury 21 Mar 1825. I would suggest that Sarah is the daughter baptised at Wincle 23 July 1820, mother Sarah Mary Sutton on PR (the Sarah is blotted) and Mary Sutton on Bishop's Transcripts. Presumably, the father was James Goodwin. Mary subsequently married John Thorp. Regards, Joy

Hi Ruth, Many thanks for your reply. I had found some of those records, however, I had also found lots of others and couldn't sort out the wheat from the chaff. But I am inclined to go with Joy's theory on the identity of Sarah SUTTON. Thanks again Christine -----Original Message----- From: Ruth Genda Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 11:13 AM To: cheshire@rootsweb.com ; christinebenson313@btinternet.com Subject: Sarah SUTTON m 1843 father James GOODWIN >From FMP: James SUTTON, farmer of Macclesfield Forest m Sarah HANDFORD of Rainow 19 Feb 1817 Sarah SUTTON d of James and Sarah SUTTON of Macclesfield Forest, farmer bap 8 Apr 1821 Sarah SUTTON m Josiah WHITTAKER (Sarah's father named as James GOODWIN) 20 Aug 1843 Sarah WHITTAKER of Sutton d/o Josiah & Sarah WHITTAKER bap Oct 1847 (Josiah's occupation F...y Trimmer) Sarah WHITTAKER of Sutton died 20 Apr, bur 23 Apr 1848 Wincle Chapelry Sarah WHITTAKER of Sutton died 24 Jun, bur 28 Jun 1848 aged 1 Wincle Chapelry All appears perfectly legitimate. I suggest Vicar simply made an error/got his wires crossed/had a senior moment. Ruth