Joan & list, thank you! Found James Downhill, appears to have been born 12-4-87, P.A. 34236 now, off to do more research! Sue Downhill granddaughter of James Downhill (1875-1920) b 18 who m. Annie Owen (1876-1962) On Thu Nov 13 1:00 , cheshire-request@rootsweb.com sent: Today's Topics: 1. Weaverham Land Tax & Redemptions (Barrie Sharples) 2. Disley Conscription Appeal Tribunal Papers (Marjorie Ward) 3. Re: Weaverham Land Tax & Redemptions (Adrian Bruce) 4. Fwd: Re: Weaverham Land Tax & Redemptions (Adrian Bruce) 5. WW1 Prisoners of War (JOAN ZORN) Message: 5 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 23:29:27 +0000 From: JOAN ZORN <[1]j.zorn@btinternet.com> Subject: [CHS] WW1 Prisoners of War To: CHESHIRE Mailing List <[2]CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <[3]1415834967.9841.YahooMailNeo@web87801.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I know from past mails that some listers have German ancestors.? In case you don't know the International Red Cross have recently made the index cards of Prisoners of the First World War available (military and civilian). I've found my husband's grandfather and great-uncle here... they were both interned at Knockaloe on IOM. [4]http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/\?\? ......be prepared to brush off your rusty French or German (that is, if your language skills are as unused as mine) The site includes all POWs and internees, so of interest to more than just descendants of? interned Germans! Joan ---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://www.cwnet.com/ References 1. javascript:top.opencompose('j.zorn@btinternet.com','','','') 2. javascript:top.opencompose('CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com','','','') 3. javascript:top.opencompose('1415834967.9841.YahooMailNeo@web87801.mail.ir2.yahoo.com','','','') 4. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fgrandeguerre.icrc.org%2F%3F%3F

I know from past mails that some listers have German ancestors.  In case you don't know the International Red Cross have recently made the index cards of Prisoners of the First World War available (military and civilian). I've found my husband's grandfather and great-uncle here... they were both interned at Knockaloe on IOM. http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/   ......be prepared to brush off your rusty French or German (that is, if your language skills are as unused as mine) The site includes all POWs and internees, so of interest to more than just descendants of  interned Germans! Joan

Link should be www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/the-land-tax-1692-1963.pdf Sorry -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [CHS] Weaverham Land Tax & Redemptions Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 15:29:24 +0000 From: Adrian Bruce via <cheshire@rootsweb.com> Reply-To: Adrian Bruce <abruce@madasafish.com> To: Barrie Sharples <b.sharples@talktalk.net>, CHESHIRE Mailing List <CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com> There's a document originating from TNA that details the Land Tax. See www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/the-*land*-*tax*-1692-1963.pdf Redemption seems to have been a process of stopping annual payment of it by making a final payment of so much. What I don't understand is how the amounts to redeem the tax were calculated, so any help with the specific amounts below would be appreciated! Adrian On 12/11/2014 14:29, Barrie Sharples wrote: > Sorry, > The question was, what does the "redemption/purchase" figure actually > mean? > > > On 12 November 2014 10:38, Adrian Bruce <abruce@madasafish.com > <mailto:abruce@madasafish.com>> wrote: > > Sorry Barrie - what's the question? > Adrian > > On 12/11/2014 09:25, Barrie Sharples via wrote: > > Hi Folks, > Can anyone with knowledge of the above tax system help me, please. > Pursuing my KAY ancestors in the Crowton - Weaverham district > I discovered > a number of Land Tax Assessments which relate to my 3rd Gt > Grandfather > Richard Kay.(House & Land) > These cover at least, the period 1805-23, include land who's > Proprietor was > either John or Geo. Bowe, *Assessed* was £1-15-6 (In every > case) plus > *Redeemed > or Purchased* again £1-15-6 (In every case) almost all the > viewed sheets > for Weaverham this was the only entry where such > redemption/purchase > occurred. Apart from a change of owner from John bowe to Geo. > Bowe (Son?) > each entry is the same. > > I hope I haven;t confused the issue, the answer is probably > very simple. > > Intrigued > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > <mailto:CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There's a document originating from TNA that details the Land Tax. See www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/the-*land*-*tax*-1692-1963.pdf Redemption seems to have been a process of stopping annual payment of it by making a final payment of so much. What I don't understand is how the amounts to redeem the tax were calculated, so any help with the specific amounts below would be appreciated! Adrian On 12/11/2014 14:29, Barrie Sharples wrote: > Sorry, > The question was, what does the "redemption/purchase" figure actually > mean? > > > On 12 November 2014 10:38, Adrian Bruce <abruce@madasafish.com > <mailto:abruce@madasafish.com>> wrote: > > Sorry Barrie - what's the question? > Adrian > > On 12/11/2014 09:25, Barrie Sharples via wrote: > > Hi Folks, > Can anyone with knowledge of the above tax system help me, please. > Pursuing my KAY ancestors in the Crowton - Weaverham district > I discovered > a number of Land Tax Assessments which relate to my 3rd Gt > Grandfather > Richard Kay.(House & Land) > These cover at least, the period 1805-23, include land who's > Proprietor was > either John or Geo. Bowe, *Assessed* was £1-15-6 (In every > case) plus > *Redeemed > or Purchased* again £1-15-6 (In every case) almost all the > viewed sheets > for Weaverham this was the only entry where such > redemption/purchase > occurred. Apart from a change of owner from John bowe to Geo. > Bowe (Son?) > each entry is the same. > > I hope I haven;t confused the issue, the answer is probably > very simple. > > Intrigued > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > <mailto:CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > > >

If anyone has an interest in Disley, you might be interested in the above papers. We went to look at them at Manchester Central Library yesterday and, whilst not complete, they show how a tribunal met at the Wycliffe Hall from 1916 interviewing men who wished not to be called up. For example my grandmother`s brother applied because he had two brothers in the army (they were killed) and he had a widowed mother to support. The papers also show how a major employer J & J Makin tried to get exemption for their employees - as they did in the Second World War when my Father worked there and was exempt. A number of these documents are now on Flickr - just put in Disley First World War best wishes Marjorie Ward Derbyshire, UK Sources for Disley; Lyme Handley; Taxal & Whaley www.disley.net Sources for Hollingworths www.hollingworths.net Sources for NWDby incl Chapel; Charlesworth; Chinley; Fernilee; Glossop; Hayfield; Hope Valley; Mellor & New Mills http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dusk John Ward Paintings: www.johnward-art.com

Hi Folks, Can anyone with knowledge of the above tax system help me, please. Pursuing my KAY ancestors in the Crowton - Weaverham district I discovered a number of Land Tax Assessments which relate to my 3rd Gt Grandfather Richard Kay.(House & Land) These cover at least, the period 1805-23, include land who's Proprietor was either John or Geo. Bowe, *Assessed* was £1-15-6 (In every case) plus *Redeemed or Purchased* again £1-15-6 (In every case) almost all the viewed sheets for Weaverham this was the only entry where such redemption/purchase occurred. Apart from a change of owner from John bowe to Geo. Bowe (Son?) each entry is the same. I hope I haven;t confused the issue, the answer is probably very simple. Intrigued

The following updates have just been announced for CheshireBMD: ---------------- Message from Ian Hartas, Cheshire. Hi, a second update to the Cheshire BMD today has added: Marriages: 23 for Hyde, Flowery Field Christian Church, registers at Tameside (2012-2014) 67 for Stalybridge, Unitarian Chapel (Canal Street), registers at Tameside (1991-2014) 21 for Droylsden, St Stephen's, Chappell Road, registers at Tameside (2010-2014) Many thanks to Bob Kirk and colleagues for these. ---------------- Forwarded by: Bob Kirk Web address: http://kirksoft.co.uk/ Sent from my iPad

The following updates have just been announced for CheshireBMD: --------- Message from Ian Hartas, Cheshire. Hi, Cheshire BMD has been updated to add: Deaths: 1,004 for Stretford, registers at Trafford (1957-1959) Births: 1,506 for Urmston, registers at Trafford (1953-1954) Many thanks to Geoff Oultram and colleagues for these. --------- Forwarded by: Bob Kirk Web address: http://kirksoft.co.uk/ Sent from my iPad

Jeanette, I have looked at my records for the LEGHs of Lyme but the only VENABLE reference I have is that Peter LEGH the 8th married Katherine daughter of Sir Thomas VENABLE of Kinderton . Peter died in 1578. and did not inherit. Regards Eric ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8536 - Release Date: 11/08/14

Hi Allan, If you go to this website and click on Page 28 you will get a very good description of the area where Thomas BROUGH, miller, was living and working in the early 1820's. Thomas isn't mentioned and neither is the Windmill, but this page should help you to understand why the various family members gave different birthplaces in the Censuses. They are all within walking distance (think 1820s not 2014s when nobody walks anywhere!). http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/cdm/compoundobject/collection/p16445coll4 /id/218261/rec/6 It's a pdf file which is why I can't copy it for you - but maybe you can download it. Cheers Ruth

As I understand it, the indexes were compiled by FamilySearch (FS) - though of course (a) they were loaded into FindmyPast's database and what item maps to what was up to FMP and (b) corrections may have made to the FMP indexes since the load. FS's indexing of places for Cheshire was, shall we say, idiosyncratic. I remember looking at several pages of (I think) electoral registers and every single entry on each page was indexed against the township(?) at the top of that page, despite the fact that the township changed several times on the page. As I understand it, FS double-index to check for discrepancies so clearly the *instructions* must have said, "use the placename at the top of the page". In this case, the FS index entry for the PR (the dodgy one) says "residence: Saltersford-cum-Kettleshume" and "marriage: Prestbury". (Unless you look at the full entry for the index which omits the residence). I cannot see "Saltersford" anywhere on the image of the page. The image actually shows both parties resident in Bollington! Saltersford didn't do marriages until 1865, according to Brett Langston's book on Cheshire PRs. We can therefore be fairly confident that the physical register didn't say anything about Saltersford. I've even just tried to use the Chester RO catalogue and "A2A" (now part of the TNA Catalogue) to work out the microfilms and am reasonably confident Saltersford is nowhere near to a Prestbury microfilm of this era. It would, as Ruth says, be enormously helpful if images of the headers were included, then we could cross-check. If they were digitised, then they're probably there in the FMP database - just not accessible because they're not indexed (remember the inaccessible right hand pages of the Witton double-page registers?). Ironically, the *Shropshire* registers do include the covers - I got the impression that job was done by FMP themselves, or at least, not by FS! As it is, worst case scenario on Cheshire is bad indexing by FS giving images of pages that do not mention a placename - hopefully, moving back and forth will find a named page but.... Adrian

Hi everyone I'm seeking information on the VENABLES family who lived in Millington. I'm trying to find the link between John Venables born 1665 in Bollington and died 1723 in Millington to the Venables who first came to Cheshire. I think his father was William. I have John marrying Margaret Leigh or Legh around 1692. Thank you Jeanette

Jeanette, This is a long shot but Margaret LEGH may be a member of the LEGH family of Lyme Park, Disley. I seem to recall the name VENABLES occurring when I used to give lectures on the LEGHs. Other LEGH branches were at Grappenhall, and Adlington in Cheshire. If you think it may be relevant I will look up my notes. Regards, Eric Millward ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8529 - Release Date: 11/07/14

No, Lesley, you're not teaching your grandmother to suck eggs. Thanks for raising this issue. I gave the information available on FMP i.e. from original documents. In the case of Thomas BROUGH there are two docs - a PR and a BT. Both register books are printed and are identical pro forma designed to be completed by whichever registrar performs the ceremony. Here the PR is signed by the groom, so the register was used at the time (presumably having been carried to whichever church) and the BT is a direct copy of the PR. Both state at the top of the page: MARRIAGES solemnised in the Parish of . in the County of . in the Year 18.. This to be completed as and when. In neither case is Saltersford-cum-Kettleshulme mentioned. However, the transcriber (Family Search?) has added to the PR info on FMP *Marriage Place Saltersford-cum-Kettleshulme* . I presumed that this is where the ceremony took place because on the cover/frontispiece of the register S-c-K will have been shown. We are not privy to this, more's the pity. It's hard to believe that the covers of the registers were not photographed - they are certainly viewable on microfiche - and why they can't be added on FMP is a mystery. Lesley, your comment on boundary change is also timely to raise. It points to the importance of keeping maps of the area as drawn at various times. Genuki has identified when changes were made and it's worth checking its website when in doubt (and when sure because sometimes you're wrong!! I know I am.) I've found that Council records also can help. Ruth

Hello Judith The website that will give you the most help when researching Cheshire ancestors is the Findmypast site. It shows all the existing original registers, wills and probate records, electoral rolls, land tax assessments, censuses etc. etc ad infinitum.  You can literally turn the pages of each register as though you are reading a book.  I stand to be corrected but as far as I know it’s not possible to do this on any other website.  But there is a cost to this.  Ideally, i.e. for the best value, you need to take out a subscription for the whole year so that you obtain the most benefits.  A year’s subscription costs the equivalent of a little less than £2.00 per week. See www.findmypast.co.uk/ But other packages are available.  There is a free weekend right now, starting today, and also a regular, but once only, 14 day free trial. Another very useful website, although not complete - and is a transcription site only (no originals), is this:  http://cgi.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb/   It’s a voluntary project being developed under the auspices of Liverpool University.   It’s a transcription of BMD parish registers in Cheshire and when complete should cover all those surviving.  The work that has been done so far is 99.95% reliable - or as near as dammit is to swearing -and it’s free.  The parish of Weaverham’s records have been DONE whilst the parish of Great Budworth are still a work in progress. Sadly, John s/o John & Esther Brooks bap 17 Sep 1735 was buried on 20 Sep 1735 both in Weaverham. HTH. Ruth

Hello Judith The website that will give you the most help when researching Cheshire ancestors is the Findmypast site. It shows all the existing original registers, wills and probate records, electoral rolls, land tax assessments, censuses etc. etc ad infinitum. You can literally turn the pages of each register as though you are reading a book. I stand to be corrected but as far as I know it’s not possible to do this on any other website. But there is a cost to this. Ideally, i.e. for the best value, you need to take out a subscription for the whole year so that you obtain the most benefits. A year’s subscription costs the equivalent of a little less than £2.00 per week. See <http://www.findmypast.co.uk/> www.findmypast.co.uk/ But other packages are available. There is a free weekend right now, starting today, and also a regular, but once only, 14 day free trial. Another very useful website, although not complete - and is a transcription site only (no originals), is this: http://cgi.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb/ It’s a voluntary project being developed under the auspices of Liverpool University. It’s a transcription of BMD parish registers in Cheshire and when complete should cover all those surviving. The work that has been done so far is 99.95% reliable - or as near as dammit is to swearing -and it’s free. The parish of Weaverham’s records have been DONE whilst the parish of Great Budworth are still a work in progress. Sadly, John s/o John & Esther Brooks bap 17 Sep 1735 was buried on 20 Sep 1735 both in Weaverham. HTH. Ruth

Is this her in 1881? 14 Taylor St, Birkenhead Thomas Lloyd 46 Engine Driver (boat?) bn Flints Ellenar (sic) Lloyd 44 bn Flints Sarah J Lloyd 13 bn Liverpool Mary E Lloyd 4 bn Birkenhead Louisa H Lloyd 2 bn Birkenhead I think this may be her in 1891. 28 Mount Pleasant St Birkenhead George Evans 48 bn Mold Sarah Evans 46 bn Mold 4 children bn Birkenhead Louisa Lloyd 12 niece bn Liverpool Cheers, Lyn

Hi All, Just a note for those of you who aren't familiar with the area around Macclesfield & Prestbury: When you see a record transcribed as Saltersford-cum-Kettleshulme (see below), you can read "St Peter's Prestbury". For some reason, many of the transcriptions for St Peter's (which was the mother church for a large area) are given as Saltersford-cum-Kettleshulme. Both these small villages/hamlets are on the other side of Macclesfield to Prestbury, so it could be quite confusing if you took it literally. Of course you should always check the original record image if you can, as the event may have taken place in a chapelry of Prestbury but is listed in the main register. Likewise, some census entries might lead you to believe that a person lived in Bollington or Sutton. Perfectly correct at the time, but it doesn't necessarily refer to the modern villages. Both township areas infringed on what is now considered to be Macclesfield (eg, the High Street/St George's area of Macclesfield was once in Sutton township and the area around the bottom of Buxton Road and Hurdsfield Road was included in Bollington. I apologise if I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here, but there have been quite a few mentions of Saltersford-cum-Kettleshulme, which if taken literally, could send someone off in completely the wrong direction. Regards Lesley Baxendale (who still calls Macclesfield 'Home' after 28 years away!) Colwyn Bay On 06/11/2014 17:17, Ruth Genda via wrote: > This posting is now being sent in 2 parts as it was very long. Apologies. > > > > Hi Allan > > > > The people in your search were living in the time and the area in which > non-conformist churches flourished. I suspect that this is why there is a > dearth of baptismal entries for them as they may have been members of those > rather than the established church. Only marriages and burials can be found > as yet on FMP and Family Search. You were searching for Thomas BROUGH, a > Miller. The following can be verified on FMP which shows the original > documents: > > > > A Thomas BROUGH was baptised 16 Jul 1780 the son of Samuel & Mary BROUGH of > Smallwood in the parish church of Astbury, near Congleton. > > A Thomas BROUGH, miller in Bollington, married Hannah BUXTON, widow, on 23 > Jun 1828 in Saltersford-cum-Kettleshulme, Prestbury. > > The 1841 Census has a Thomas & Hannah BROUGH (both 64) + children Robert, > Benjamin and Elias living at Five Ashes in Bollington where Thomas is a > Miller. > > Hannah BROUGH of Bollington was bur 31 Aug 1845 aged 66. > > A Thomas BROUGH of Bollington was buried aged 67 in Christ Church, > Macclesfield on 9 Feb 1847. > > These 4 Thomas BROUGHs could all be the same man. > > There are no other Thomas BROUGHs who are Millers found anywhere, and those > figures stack up. > > > > If Thomas BROUGH was 48 when he married Hannah BUXTON it is likely that this > is (at least) a second marriage for him and therefore it's possible that > there are older children born to him. I was unable to find an earlier > marriage for Thomas in Cheshire. But, for what it's worth, I'll mention one > 'wild possibility' at the end of this mailing. > > > > [See Part 2} > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello List, Please could someone help me? I am looking for the parents of Louisa Lloyd born about 1877. She says she was born in Birkenhead, father was Thomas not sure about her mother. She married in Salford 1899 a James Robinson the 1914 a Joseph Sweeney. Found her on the 1901/11 census in Salford where she said she was born in Birkenhead, can't find 1871/81/91 any ideas much appreciated. Regards,Beatrice

[Finally .] Throughout the Censuses different birthplaces are given for these men - but they are all in villages/townships in the Congleton/Macclesfield area. And they all gravitate to Liverpool. There would appear to be a strong family connection but it's difficult to prove through PRs and Censuses alone. I have not checked Trade Directories or Newspapers. Now the 'wild possibility'. At the end of the 18thC there was a lot of traffic between the Biddulph, Staffordshire and Congleton/Macclesfield areas. There is a marriage between a Thomas BROUGH and a Judith COPLAND on 6 Nov 1798 in St Lawrence Church, Biddulph. There is a burial of Judith BROUGH aged 46 on 20 May 1823 in the same church. No baptisms of this couple are recorded, I suspect for the same reasons that I gave above. This may or may be not worth exploring further. Hope this all helps. Ruth