Tony, Lichfield Record Office http://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/leisure/archives/contact/LichfieldRecordOffice/LichfieldSources/home.aspx I have no direct experience of this RO but maybe another Lister has who can advise. You can always ring or email the RO direct to ask initial questions. Ruth From: Tony Vernon [mailto:tonyvernon4@gmail.com] Sent: 25 November 2014 15:08 To: Ruth Genda Cc: cheshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: 2 questions: Quaker christenings Hi Ruth, Thanks for the references. Can you please clarify what you mean by the Lichfield RO? Cheers, Tony On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Ruth Genda <ruthgenda@btinternet.com> wrote: Tony, forgot to mention 3 documents in National Archives. http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_aq= <http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_aq=&_ep=Randall+Vernon&_or1=&_or2=&_or3=&_nq1=&_nq2=&_nq3=&_cr1=&_cr2=&_cr3=&_dss=range&_sd=1600&_ed=1699&_p=1600&_hb=&_st=adv&_rv=&name=Search> &_ep=Randall+Vernon&_or1=&_or2=&_or3=&_nq1=&_nq2=&_nq3=&_cr1=&_cr2=&_cr3=&_dss=range&_sd=1600&_ed=1699&_p=1600&_hb=&_st=adv&_rv=&name=Search And Lichfield RO holds VERNON wills that could be those of your ancestors too. Ruth

Hello, As a follow-on to the Quaker choice to not baptise or christen, does anyone know when they went away from that practice? In Hinshaw's index in the U.S., there are birth records recorded, but I have been unable to find a birth record for an ancestor presumed born in 1799 so am wondering if that lack of documentation is due to this practice, or something else like leaving the faith. Thanks! Tony On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:47 AM, Ruth Genda <ruthgenda@btinternet.com> wrote: > But Quakers don’t baptise or christen children. I’m afraid you will > search in vain. > > From Wikipedia: … Friends do not practice water baptism > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism>, Christening > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_baptism>, or other initiation > ceremonies to admit a new member or a newborn baby. Children are often > welcomed into the meeting at their first attendance. Formerly, children > born to Quaker parents automatically became members (sometimes called *Birthright > membership*), but this is no longer the case in many areas. Some parents > apply for membership on behalf of their children, while others allow the > child to decide whether to become a member when they are ready, and older > in age. Some meetings adopt a policy that children, some time after > becoming young adults, must apply independently for membership. > > You will find a gentle explanation here: > > http://www.hitchin.plus.com/Quakers/Newkids.htm > > Ruth > > >

Tony, forgot to mention 3 documents in National Archives. http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_aq= <http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_aq=&_ep=Randall+Vernon& _or1=&_or2=&_or3=&_nq1=&_nq2=&_nq3=&_cr1=&_cr2=&_cr3=&_dss=range&_sd=1600&_e d=1699&_p=1600&_hb=&_st=adv&_rv=&name=Search> &_ep=Randall+Vernon&_or1=&_or2=&_or3=&_nq1=&_nq2=&_nq3=&_cr1=&_cr2=&_cr3=&_d ss=range&_sd=1600&_ed=1699&_p=1600&_hb=&_st=adv&_rv=&name=Search And Lichfield RO holds VERNON wills that could be those of your ancestors too. Ruth

Tony, have you looked for VERNONs in Staffordshire parish records? FMP show a number of Randall/Randle, Robert and Thomas VERNON records of the period. They would seem to be connected but, to be sure, they need closer attention than I have time for this afternoon. Sorry. For background reading on Quakers in Cheshire look at Google Books here: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Quakers+in+Cheshire <https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Quakers+in+Cheshire&btnG=Search+Books&tbm =bks&tbo=1&gws_rd=ssl> &btnG=Search+Books&tbm=bks&tbo=1&gws_rd=ssl There are several that may be helpful. Ruth

Hi Tony, My mistake - Sudbury is in Derbyshire - half a mile North of the Staffordshire border! Beat wishes with your search. Martin On 25/11/2014 11:45, Tony Vernon wrote: > Hi Martin, > > Thanks for the confirmation about the Quakers. I believe Staffordshire > isn't a possibility. According to Wikipedia (which mostly quotes > Collin's peerage: > snip ... of Marchington and Sudbury...Derbyshire -- "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." (Psa.37) Web: http://www.biblewitness.org

Hi Tony, No, Quakers were not active then as a recognisable group but it's possible that the parents were independent of the established church (as was Oliver Cromwell), especially as the family presumably escaped persecution by going to America. Have you explored the Vernon family who had a seat at Sudbury Hall in Staffordshire? I don't know when or where they took this up but yours could be a scion of that family. HTH, Martin On 25/11/2014 10:05, Tony Vernon via wrote: > Hi Ruth, > > Thanks for the information. I'm curious about the timing though. Thomas > was born in 1639, and his brothers perhaps 2-5 years after that. Was the > Quaker faith active in Cheshire by then? I don't know the timing of the > spread of that faith in England. I had been operating under the assumption > that all three brothers would have been baptized under the C of E, perhaps > that is a faulty assumption if their father was an early Friend? > > Thanks, > Tony > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:47 AM, Ruth Genda <ruthgenda@btinternet.com> > wrote: > >> But Quakers don’t baptise or christen children. I’m afraid you will >> search in vain. >> >> From Wikipedia: … Friends do not practice water baptism >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism>, Christening >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_baptism>, or other initiation >> ceremonies to admit a new member or a newborn baby. Children are often >> welcomed into the meeting at their first attendance. Formerly, children >> born to Quaker parents automatically became members (sometimes called *Birthright >> membership*), but this is no longer the case in many areas. Some parents >> apply for membership on behalf of their children, while others allow the >> child to decide whether to become a member when they are ready, and older >> in age. Some meetings adopt a policy that children, some time after >> becoming young adults, must apply independently for membership. >> >> You will find a gentle explanation here: >> >> http://www.hitchin.plus.com/Quakers/Newkids.htm >> >> Ruth >> >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." (Psa.37) Web: http://www.biblewitness.org

Hi Ruth, Thanks for the references. Can you please clarify what you mean by the Lichfield RO? Cheers, Tony On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Ruth Genda <ruthgenda@btinternet.com> wrote: > Tony, forgot to mention 3 documents in National Archives. > > > > > http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_aq=&_ep=Randall+Vernon&_or1=&_or2=&_or3=&_nq1=&_nq2=&_nq3=&_cr1=&_cr2=&_cr3=&_dss=range&_sd=1600&_ed=1699&_p=1600&_hb=&_st=adv&_rv=&name=Search > > And Lichfield RO holds VERNON wills that could be those of your ancestors > too. > > Ruth >

But Quakers don't baptise or christen children. I'm afraid you will search in vain. >From Wikipedia: . Friends do not practice water baptism <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism> , Christening <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_baptism> , or other initiation ceremonies to admit a new member or a newborn baby. Children are often welcomed into the meeting at their first attendance. Formerly, children born to Quaker parents automatically became members (sometimes called Birthright membership), but this is no longer the case in many areas. Some parents apply for membership on behalf of their children, while others allow the child to decide whether to become a member when they are ready, and older in age. Some meetings adopt a policy that children, some time after becoming young adults, must apply independently for membership. You will find a gentle explanation here: http://www.hitchin.plus.com/Quakers/Newkids.htm Ruth

Hi Ruth, Thanks for the information. I'm curious about the timing though. Thomas was born in 1639, and his brothers perhaps 2-5 years after that. Was the Quaker faith active in Cheshire by then? I don't know the timing of the spread of that faith in England. I had been operating under the assumption that all three brothers would have been baptized under the C of E, perhaps that is a faulty assumption if their father was an early Friend? Thanks, Tony On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:47 AM, Ruth Genda <ruthgenda@btinternet.com> wrote: > But Quakers don’t baptise or christen children. I’m afraid you will > search in vain. > > From Wikipedia: … Friends do not practice water baptism > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism>, Christening > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_baptism>, or other initiation > ceremonies to admit a new member or a newborn baby. Children are often > welcomed into the meeting at their first attendance. Formerly, children > born to Quaker parents automatically became members (sometimes called *Birthright > membership*), but this is no longer the case in many areas. Some parents > apply for membership on behalf of their children, while others allow the > child to decide whether to become a member when they are ready, and older > in age. Some meetings adopt a policy that children, some time after > becoming young adults, must apply independently for membership. > > You will find a gentle explanation here: > > http://www.hitchin.plus.com/Quakers/Newkids.htm > > Ruth > > >

It might happen if one of his parents came from the Great Budworth parish - there might be a psychological attachment to the old church. Adrian On 24/11/2014 18:16, Tony Vernon wrote: > Thanks Adrian. > > It seems unlikely that his birthplace was Stanthorne then, as his > parents would have taken him past Davenham north to Great Budworth to > be baptized, which doesn't seem to make much sense. Although I > suppose stranger things have happened! ...

See GENUKI on Stanthorne - http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/chs/stanthorne.html Theoretically the answer is Davenham but people didn't always go to their "official" parish church for baptisms. And marriages, so many say, would tend to be in the bride's parish - but this isn't a rule, just a custom. Alleged custom at that! Adrian On 24/11/2014 16:12, Tony Vernon via wrote: > ... What parish would you think that he would have been > christened in, assuming that he was born in or near Stanthorne? I see > records from Great Budworth that seem to fit, but there are also Tarporley > Vernons in about the right timeframe on findmypast. ...

Thanks Adrian. It seems unlikely that his birthplace was Stanthorne then, as his parents would have taken him past Davenham north to Great Budworth to be baptized, which doesn't seem to make much sense. Although I suppose stranger things have happened! I appreciate the input. His brothers were supposed to be from other parts of the county, so perhaps they spread out as adults. Cheers, Tony On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Adrian Bruce <abruce@madasafish.com> wrote: > See GENUKI on Stanthorne - http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/ > genuki/chs/stanthorne.html > > Theoretically the answer is Davenham but people didn't always go to their > "official" parish church for baptisms. And marriages, so many say, would > tend to be in the bride's parish - but this isn't a rule, just a custom. > Alleged custom at that! > > Adrian > > On 24/11/2014 16:12, Tony Vernon via wrote: > >> ... What parish would you think that he would have been >> christened in, assuming that he was born in or near Stanthorne? I see >> records from Great Budworth that seem to fit, but there are also Tarporley >> Vernons in about the right timeframe on findmypast. ... >> > >

Hello, I am still trying to chase down the parentage of my Quaker emigrant ancestor who came to Pennsylvania US in 1682. Thomas Vernon was born in 1639. What I know from Quaker records on this side of the pond is that he was from Stanthorne. What parish would you think that he would have been christened in, assuming that he was born in or near Stanthorne? I see records from Great Budworth that seem to fit, but there are also Tarporley Vernons in about the right timeframe on findmypast. An additional challenge is that he had two brothers Randall and Robert, who I am having trouble connecting to him. Any suggestions would be appreciated! Also, another descendent of these brothers is looking into their parentage as well. How does he go about joining this e-mail list? Please let me know. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Cheers, Tony

Bob, Tony, & Jim- Great responses! I am a user of both sites. I do not own an iPad so have no experience with the app. Being a user of both, I have a few comments and observations. Seems that Find A Grave is coming out with an iPad app also - can't find the link at this time. Navigation- I find the Find A Grave site easier to navigate and search for both person and graveyard. I like the Nearby Cemeteries and their mileage on Billion Graves. Visibility- when my eyes are tired, the FAG site is easier to read, (contrast with black on purple), Advertisements- Both sites have them, FAG with its flashing ads is annoying BG has big links that also distract. I know it goes without saying, -but- I always read the FAQ and Terms of Use this answers many of my questions, especially when it comes to "User submissions" - as applied to copyright law. As for being swallowed up by Ancestry- I've noticed a few improvements to my tree and it's leaves on Ancestry when a match comes up it can connect the whole family if you wish, if they are also linked on FAG. Further- see [1]http://www.findagrave.com/ancestryFAQs.html When RootsWeb was acquired by Ancestry it remained free to use and provides websites, email lists (such as ours) free of charge,-a real benefit for us! from a long-winded-off-topic subscriber! Sue with connections to Dukinfield which I posted on FAG. On Wed Nov 19 1:00 , cheshire-request@rootsweb.com sent: Today's Topics: 1. Billion Graves app for iPad (Robert Kirk) 2. Re: Billion Graves app for iPad ([2]railton.david@btinternet.com) 3. Re: Billion Graves app for iPad (Tony Vernon) 4. Re: Billion Graves app for iPad (Robert Kirk) 5. Re: Billion Graves app for iPad (Jim Hunt) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:21:13 +0000 From: Robert Kirk <[3]bob.kirk@me.com> Subject: [CHS] Billion Graves app for iPad To: Cheshire List <[4]cheshire@rootsweb.com> Has anyone any experience of an iPad app called Billion Graves? I've just come across this and it seems like a great idea so long as it remains free to use. Basically anyone can contribute by photographing a grave, transcribing the inscription and uploading this onto the site including a GPS reference. The index created by the transcriptions is then searchable by surname or cemetery name. If nothing else it does seem to have a very comprehensive list of Cemetaries in a particular area. I'm not promoting this app just wondering if anyone else uses it. Someone has done a lot of photographing/transcribing of Dukinfield Cemetery if you want to see an example. Bob Kirk Web address: [5]http://kirksoft.co.uk/ Sent from my iPad -------------------------------------------------- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:36:52 -0000 From: <[6]railton.david@btinternet.com> Can also be seen on-line at: [7]http://billiongraves.com/ David -------------------------------------------------- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:42:57 -0500 From: Tony Vernon <[8]tonyvernon4@gmail.com> Hello Bob, In the U.S., findagrave.com has a great many entries. I am interested to see if this has something new and interesting to offer. I believe findagrave has been swallowed up by ancestry.com, but is still free. Cheers, Tony -------------------------------------------------- Message 4 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:44:57 +0000 From: Robert Kirk <[9]bob.kirk@me.com> Thanks for the link David I wasn't aware of this until tonight. I'd still like to hear from anyone who has used the site either by uploading and transcribing or as a search tool for their own research. Bob Kirk Web address: [10]http://kirksoft.co.uk/ ----------------------------------------------------- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 14:00:12 -0800 From: Jim Hunt <[11]jimhunt7@comcast.net> I've used billion graves and findagrave.com with good success, better results with findagrave as they have over 120 million graves registered. It's got great coverage in the US and is improving in the UK. ---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://www.cwnet.com/ References 1. http://www.findagrave.com/ancestryFAQs.html 2. DEFANGED_javascript:top.opencompose('railton.david@btinternet.com','','','') 3. DEFANGED_javascript:top.opencompose('bob.kirk@me.com','','','') 4. DEFANGED_javascript:top.opencompose('cheshire@rootsweb.com','','','') 5. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http://kirksoft.co.uk/ 6. DEFANGED_javascript:top.opencompose('railton.david@btinternet.com','','','') 7. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http://billiongraves.com/ 8. DEFANGED_javascript:top.opencompose('tonyvernon4@gmail.com','','','') 9. DEFANGED_javascript:top.opencompose('bob.kirk@me.com','','','') 10. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http://kirksoft.co.uk/ 11. DEFANGED_javascript:top.opencompose('jimhunt7@comcast.net','','','')

Thanks for the link David I wasn't aware of this until tonight. I'd still like to hear from anyone who has used the site either by uploading and transcribing or as a search tool for their own research. Bob Kirk Web address: http://kirksoft.co.uk/ Sent from my iPad > On 18 Nov 2014, at 20:36, "railton.david via" <cheshire@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Can also be seen on-line at: http://billiongraves.com/ > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: cheshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cheshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Robert Kirk via > Sent: 18 November 2014 20:21 > To: Cheshire List > Subject: [CHS] Billion Graves app for iPad > > Has anyone any experience of an iPad app called Billion Graves? I've just > come across this and it seems like a great idea so long as it remains free > to use. > Basically anyone can contribute by photographing a grave, transcribing the > inscription and uploading this onto the site including a GPS reference. The > index created by the transcriptions is then searchable by surname or > cemetery name. > If nothing else it does seem to have a very comprehensive list of Cemetaries > in a particular area. > I'm not promoting this app just wondering if anyone else uses it. > Someone has done a lot of photographing/transcribing of Dukinfield Cemetery > if you want to see an example. > > Bob Kirk > > Web address: http://kirksoft.co.uk/ > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Can also be seen on-line at: http://billiongraves.com/ David -----Original Message----- From: cheshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cheshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Robert Kirk via Sent: 18 November 2014 20:21 To: Cheshire List Subject: [CHS] Billion Graves app for iPad Has anyone any experience of an iPad app called Billion Graves? I've just come across this and it seems like a great idea so long as it remains free to use. Basically anyone can contribute by photographing a grave, transcribing the inscription and uploading this onto the site including a GPS reference. The index created by the transcriptions is then searchable by surname or cemetery name. If nothing else it does seem to have a very comprehensive list of Cemetaries in a particular area. I'm not promoting this app just wondering if anyone else uses it. Someone has done a lot of photographing/transcribing of Dukinfield Cemetery if you want to see an example. Bob Kirk Web address: http://kirksoft.co.uk/ Sent from my iPad ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Has anyone any experience of an iPad app called Billion Graves? I've just come across this and it seems like a great idea so long as it remains free to use. Basically anyone can contribute by photographing a grave, transcribing the inscription and uploading this onto the site including a GPS reference. The index created by the transcriptions is then searchable by surname or cemetery name. If nothing else it does seem to have a very comprehensive list of Cemetaries in a particular area. I'm not promoting this app just wondering if anyone else uses it. Someone has done a lot of photographing/transcribing of Dukinfield Cemetery if you want to see an example. Bob Kirk Web address: http://kirksoft.co.uk/ Sent from my iPad

Hello Bob, In the U.S., findagrave.com has a great many entries. I am interested to see if this has something new and interesting to offer. I believe findagrave has been swallowed up by ancestry.com, but is still free. Cheers, Tony On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 3:36 PM, railton.david via <cheshire@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Can also be seen on-line at: http://billiongraves.com/ > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: cheshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cheshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Robert Kirk via > Sent: 18 November 2014 20:21 > To: Cheshire List > Subject: [CHS] Billion Graves app for iPad > > Has anyone any experience of an iPad app called Billion Graves? I've just > come across this and it seems like a great idea so long as it remains free > to use. > Basically anyone can contribute by photographing a grave, transcribing the > inscription and uploading this onto the site including a GPS reference. The > index created by the transcriptions is then searchable by surname or > cemetery name. > If nothing else it does seem to have a very comprehensive list of > Cemetaries > in a particular area. > I'm not promoting this app just wondering if anyone else uses it. > Someone has done a lot of photographing/transcribing of Dukinfield Cemetery > if you want to see an example. > > Bob Kirk > > Web address: http://kirksoft.co.uk/ > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I've used billion graves and findagrave.com with good success, better results with findagrave as they have over 120 million graves registered. It's got great coverage in the US and is improving in the UK. Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 18, 2014, at 12:44, Robert Kirk via <cheshire@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Thanks for the link David I wasn't aware of this until tonight. > I'd still like to hear from anyone who has used the site either by uploading and transcribing or as a search tool for their own research. > > Bob Kirk > > Web address: http://kirksoft.co.uk/ > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 18 Nov 2014, at 20:36, "railton.david via" <cheshire@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> >> Can also be seen on-line at: http://billiongraves.com/ >> >> David >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cheshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cheshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] >> On Behalf Of Robert Kirk via >> Sent: 18 November 2014 20:21 >> To: Cheshire List >> Subject: [CHS] Billion Graves app for iPad >> >> Has anyone any experience of an iPad app called Billion Graves? I've just >> come across this and it seems like a great idea so long as it remains free >> to use. >> Basically anyone can contribute by photographing a grave, transcribing the >> inscription and uploading this onto the site including a GPS reference. The >> index created by the transcriptions is then searchable by surname or >> cemetery name. >> If nothing else it does seem to have a very comprehensive list of Cemetaries >> in a particular area. >> I'm not promoting this app just wondering if anyone else uses it. >> Someone has done a lot of photographing/transcribing of Dukinfield Cemetery >> if you want to see an example. >> >> Bob Kirk >> >> Web address: http://kirksoft.co.uk/ >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There are also records of British POWs in Germany available. My father lost a leg near St Quentin in a Somme battle on 22nd. March 1918 and was taken prisoner and treated at the POW hospital at Gottingen. He never discussed his experiences but I learned the details only last week by firstly accessing his War Record to get his regiment and service number. Then I posted an enquiry on the "Great War Forum". The responses were very helpful and included information on how to get access to the War Diary which records detailed accounts of the daily actions in the war at regimental level. The War Diary (two large PDF files) cost only £3 or so from the National Archives. It was money well spent. Eric Millward ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5557 / Virus Database: 4213/8564 - Release Date: 11/13/14