<<snipped>> I am not sure if all baptism documents mentioned the actual date of birth <<snipped>> Highly unusual for any baptisms from the 1790s to mention birth dates (Witton chapelry excepted, for one). Some parishes had barely accepted that the mother's name might be useful. <<snipped>> If an elderly person's relatives weren't sure of their age at death (ie people born pre registration), do you think it would it be likely for them to refer to the baptism date to get their age? <<snipped>> Personally, I'd be dubious about their ability to get to the baptism register. If you were called upon to register a death in the mid-1800s, there must be a distinct possibility that you wouldn't even realise you'd be asked the age of the deceased. So if you were asked in the course of the registration, would you really volunteer to trot off down to the church? Would the registrar think that a good use of his time? Or is it more likely that the registrar will say, "Well, roughly how old...?" And if you knew beforehand that age was a question to be asked, how likely are you go to the church beforehand, find the clerk and get him to open the parish chest and stand there while.... Or, again, are you likely to think, "Well, if I don't know, who's going to know better?" And do a best guess.... All of this is a guess on **my** part - however, it's important to understand that most of our ancestors were nothing like as obsessed with paperwork and dates as we have become. So the fact that one candidate's age hits the years-from-baptism nail on the head is, I suggest, most likely to be simply coincidence. It might **not** be coincidence - but the only safe thing to do is assume that it is coincidence, and try and sort things out in other ways, such as looking at names of informants, and what happens to the other candidates, etc. Good luck... Adrian B

Hi everybody, As we all know the ages quoted on censuses can be all over the place and the ones on a death cert also do not always simplify things. If an elderly person’s relatives weren’t sure of their age at death (ie people born pre registration), do you think it would it be likely for them to refer to the baptism date to get their age? I am not sure if all baptism documents mentioned the actual date of birth, as they do not always in the registers. ie I have someone born in 1791 but they were not baptised until 1797. The age at death on one entry I have found agrees with the baptism date but none agree with the birth date, so I am wondering if this is the person I am looking for. The censuses were a mixture of the two! Thanks for your help. Juliet

For the same reason the Hyde Chapel records helped me through an impenetrable brick wall several years back, but then I was using the microfilm very best Gay Sent from my iPod On 30 Aug 2013, at 11:38, "Bob Douglas" <bob@cotswan.com> wrote: > Hi > > You are probably aware that the nonconformist records (held at the National > Archives in RG4 etc) and previusly only online on bmdregisters.com and the > genealogist, are now on ancestry. > I broke through a brick wall. Hyde Presbyterian, starting at a date between > 1810 and 1820 list the mother's parents names on baptisms. > So I found Hannah Wood baptised 1821, daughter of Robert Wood and Lydia, > daughter of James Shaw (who I could only suspect up to now) and Sally. > James Shaw and Sally Swindells marriage (in Mottram) easily found, and > possible ancestors particularly for James particularly. > > Bob > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi You are probably aware that the nonconformist records (held at the National Archives in RG4 etc) and previusly only online on bmdregisters.com and the genealogist, are now on ancestry. I broke through a brick wall. Hyde Presbyterian, starting at a date between 1810 and 1820 list the mother's parents names on baptisms. So I found Hannah Wood baptised 1821, daughter of Robert Wood and Lydia, daughter of James Shaw (who I could only suspect up to now) and Sally. James Shaw and Sally Swindells marriage (in Mottram) easily found, and possible ancestors particularly for James particularly. Bob

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FMP has a record of my 3G grandmother Ann SHAW buried at Cheadle Edgeley as a Methodist on 27 Mar 1838 (ae 34). Are there records available online for the Cheadle Edgeley cemetery? Would there be family members buried in the same cemetery? I do not know Ann's maiden surname. Ann had a daughter Eliza Ann SHAW, b. 1830, probably died before the 1841 census. Many thanks for any help, David Watts Foxboro MA USA

An excellent answer, Bob - certainly puts things into context. Lancs is surely very, very fortunate to have both the BMD site and the OPC. And as you state it is a big task and a big ask for anyone to take an OPC up for Cheshire. I've been involved in FH for over 20 years so I have a fair idea of what a monumental job it would be. It is impossible for me to take it up. Furthermore, I do appreciate the work that Ian Hartas and his team are doing. A good job well done. Cheers Graham Melbourne Oz

Hi Graham, There is a Cheshire Parish Register Project on the go (slowly but useful all the same). http://cgi.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb/ It's not the most intuitive database I've ever come across, but for the parishes so far completed, it has transcriptions of all the detail from the original registers, including any notes where they exist. Regards Lesley Baxendale Colwyn Bay On 29/08/2013 00:21, Graham Price wrote: > > An excellent answer, Bob - certainly puts things into context. Lancs > is surely very, very fortunate to have both the BMD site and the OPC. > And as you state it is a big task and a big ask for anyone to take an > OPC up for Cheshire. I've been involved in FH for over 20 years so I > have a fair idea of what a monumental job it would be. It is > impossible for me to take it up. > > Furthermore, I do appreciate the work that Ian Hartas and his team > are doing. A good job well done. > Cheers > Graham > Melbourne > Oz > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks lots of mine passed through St Mary's -----Original Message----- From: cheshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cheshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Vanessa Dixon Sent: 28 August 2013 12:35 To: Rootsweb Subject: [CHS] St. Mary's parish church, Stockport video I was walking past St. Mary's church in Stockport and noticed it was open, so I went in and had a cup of coffee then did a bit of filming of the inside then outside. I thought those of you who have connections to the church would like to see it. http://youtu.be/Q1cflowO3DE Vanessa    All records are subject to error. Let they without typo caste tea thirst scone! View my photostream at http://www.flickr.com/photos/snapshistory/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>-----Original Message----- >From: Graham Price >Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 8:07 PM >To: Cheshire List ; M&LFHS List >Subject: Re: [CHS] CheshireBMD updates >At 07:49 PM 28/08/2013, you wrote: >>The following updates have recently been announced for CheshireBMD. >Thanks for that. I do have a query though. I've been looking at this >for some time and it seems that updates would be better served by >being put into a database such as OPC Lancashire does, whereby the >parents of births/baptisms and the marriage details are given in >full. The updates to Cheshire BMD don't really tell you all that >much, so that you have to search further and not always to >fulfillment apart from paying up with your credit card, but OPC give >you all the details you need without having to fork out payment heavy >sums for a certificate. Please tell me why Cheshire BMD continue this >limited service, which is useful, but not economic? Isn't it time for >Cheshire to set up an OPC if that is at all possible? LancashireOPC is sourced from Church Registers held in various Archives whereas CheshireBMD is sourced from the Statutory Indexes of Births Marriages and Deaths registered at the various Local Register Offices. I believe access relies on the goodwill of the Local Registrars and the information used is restricted to that included in Local Register Office Indexes. The advantage is that there is often a little more information than in the GRO Index. Most Cheshire Parish Registers are indexed on Familysearch.org and many images are on FMP Andy

At 07:49 PM 28/08/2013, you wrote: >The following updates have recently been announced for CheshireBMD. Thanks for that. I do have a query though. I've been looking at this for some time and it seems that updates would be better served by being put into a database such as OPC Lancashire does, whereby the parents of births/baptisms and the marriage details are given in full. The updates to Cheshire BMD don't really tell you all that much, so that you have to search further and not always to fulfillment apart from paying up with your credit card, but OPC give you all the details you need without having to fork out payment heavy sums for a certificate. Please tell me why Cheshire BMD continue this limited service, which is useful, but not economic? Isn't it time for Cheshire to set up an OPC if that is at all possible?

Thank ypou for that Vanessa. I have several hundred Stockport BRUCKSHAWs on my tree but not a single link to those mentioned on the brasses in the church (and at Mottram in Longdendale). Eric Millward

I was walking past St. Mary's church in Stockport and noticed it was open, so I went in and had a cup of coffee then did a bit of filming of the inside then outside. I thought those of you who have connections to the church would like to see it. http://youtu.be/Q1cflowO3DE Vanessa    All records are subject to error. Let they without typo caste tea thirst scone! View my photostream at http://www.flickr.com/photos/snapshistory/

Graham The indexes on CheshireBMD are compiled from the original Indexes/Registers held by the local Register Offices and because of GRO regulations we are limited as to the amount of detail which we may extract from them. Remember that the Local ROs have to pay their way nowadays and the purchasing of certificates helps them accomplish this. CheshireBMD is the most accurate index of BMDs you will find. Cheshire is one of the best served counties for Family History information. However if you would like to startup, organise and keep up to date a similar database to the LancashireOPC then I'm sure that it would be well received by all the researchers in our fair County. If you were to take on this monumental task i fear that you would just be repeating a lot of information that is already out there and available with a little delving which is what Family History research is all about. If you want to take your idea further contact the Web Master at the address on the CheshireBMD web page I'm sure he would give it the attention it deserves. Have Fun & Look Wide Bob Kirk Dukinfield Cheshire www.Kirksoft.me.uk http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk On 28 Aug 2013, at 11:07, Graham Price <genetree@tpg.com.au> wrote: > At 07:49 PM 28/08/2013, you wrote: > >> The following updates have recently been announced for CheshireBMD. > > Thanks for that. I do have a query though. I've been looking at this > for some time and it seems that updates would be better served by > being put into a database such as OPC Lancashire does, whereby the > parents of births/baptisms and the marriage details are given in > full. The updates to Cheshire BMD don't really tell you all that > much, so that you have to search further and not always to > fulfillment apart from paying up with your credit card, but OPC give > you all the details you need without having to fork out payment heavy > sums for a certificate. Please tell me why Cheshire BMD continue this > limited service, which is useful, but not economic? Isn't it time for > Cheshire to set up an OPC if that is at all possible? > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The following updates have recently been announced for CheshireBMD. ---------------- Message from Ian Hartas, Cheshire. Hi, Cheshire BMD has been updated to add: Marriages: 322 for Moreton, Presbyterian Church (Hoylake Road), registers at Wirral (1974-2006) 40 for New Brighton, Kingdom Hall (Field Road), registers at Wirral (1984-2010) 13 for Wallasey, Memorial Church (Manor Road), registers at Wirral (1954-1962) 140 for Seacombe, Methodist Church (Brighton Street), registers at Wirral (1931-1964) 92 for New Brighton, Presbyterian Church URC (Ennerdale Road), registers at Wirral (1940-1978) 6 for Wallasey, St Saviour (Radnor Drive), registers at Wirral (1954-1962) 3 for Seacombe, Oakdale Presbyterian Mission (Somerville), registers at Wirral (1958-1960) 8 for Liscard, English Presbyterian (Martins Lane), registers at Wirral (1961-1967) 1 for Seacombe, Congregational School Chapel (Liscard Road), registers at Wirral (1940-1940) 151 for Egremont, St Columba, registers at Wirral (1931-1946) Births: 1,738 for Bredbury, registers at Stockport (1954-1969) Many thanks to Helen Gill, Peter Greenwood and their respective colleagues for these. ----------------- Message from Ian Hartas, Cheshire. Hi, Cheshire BMD has been updated to add: Births: 3,117 for Stockport First, registers at Stockport (1957-1959) Many thanks to Peter Greenwood and colleagues for these. -------------------------- Apologies for the delay in forwarding these as I've been away on holiday Forwarded by Bob Kirk Dukinfield Cheshire www.Kirksoft.me.uk http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk

Many thanks to all who replied. It does seem that there is indeed some zoning of burials in England, but perhaps not very consistently applied. It would certainly help researchers if the cemetery plan indicated the section where one might expect to find, say, Catholic or Nonconfomist forebears. And, from the point of view of the bereaved, they might prefer burials to be with those the deceased was close to in life. Lynda Burke, nee Chetwood

On 08/27/13 17:14, Adrian Bruce wrote: > the creation of municipal cemeteries was > encouraged not just by a lack of capacity in church graveyards, but also > major health concerns about graveyards in the middle of urban areas. A good point. Improved urban sanitary conditions - much needed at that time. Lynda's example: "Nantwich cemetery was begun as an emergency measure at a time of cholera", emphasizes the point. Carl.

Thanks Carl - it occurs to me that the creation of municipal cemeteries was encouraged not just by a lack of capacity in church graveyards, but also major health concerns about graveyards in the middle of urban areas. To put it bluntly - some leaked. Not sure if Cheshire had any ghoulish stories that encouraged municipal cemeteries. Adrian B

I believe that the practice of zoning burial grounds came in with municipal cemeteries. In earlier times almost all burials were done in churchyards. Most were done by the Church of England (C of E) because the C of E assumes responsibility for all who live in a parish, including those who do not attend any church. Other denominations had their own burial grounds and their members were buried in these. Around the mid nineteenth century churchyards of all denominations began to run out of space. This was due to the increasing population and its concentration into towns. As a result town councils started to provide burial grounds. In the latter half of the nineteenth century large Municipal Cemeteries were created in most Cheshire towns. This was at a time when other denominations (particulary Methodists) had built up a strong following, and Catholics had gained legal rights for long denied. There was pressure from all these denominations to divide the new Municipal Cemeteries into zones. On visits to a number of Municipal Cemeteries in and around Cheshire I have observed that most have at least three zones namely: - C of E, - Catholic, - Non-Conformist (i.e. Methodist, Baptists, Congregational, etc.) More recently the population has become less religiously inclined so newer municipal cemeteries and extensions to existing ones tend not to be segregated. Carl. On 08/27/13 06:27, Lynda Burke wrote: > Researching in Australia, and online, I've seen cemeteries zoned by > religion of the deceased, which is also clearly indicated on cemetery plans. > > Is (or was) this practice followed in England and Wales? I notice that in > Nantwich cemetery all my Methodist grandparents and several other relatives > are buried close together. > > The newer graves at the top end don't seem to be segregated. > > Can anyone explain practice and or policy on this? > > Lynda Burke, nee Chetwood > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

According to the Devon County Council website:   "A few non-conformist chapels had their own burying grounds, but records of these do not always survive. In London, Dissenters had their own burial ground at Bunhill Fields, which was opened in 1665. Bunhill Fields Burial Registers date from 1715 and are now at The National Archives. Burials usually took place in Church of England (Anglican) churchyards until the larger towns had their own cemeteries. In 1880 the burial of non-conformists by their own ministers in Anglican churchyards was finally permitted by law, and some non-conformist burial grounds were closed at this time." http://www.devon.gov.uk/print/index/councildemocracy/record_office/family_history_3/nonconformist.htm   Joy  ________________________________ From: Adrian Bruce <abruce@madasafish.com> To: 'CHESHIRE List message' <CHESHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, 27 August 2013, 11:01 Subject: Re: [CHS] UK cemeteries <<snipped>> I've seen cemeteries zoned by religion of the deceased, which is also clearly indicated on cemetery plans. <<snipped>> I'm not sure if there is / was a laid-down requirement but I've only seen reference to "consecrated" and "unconsecrated", where "consecrated" refers to the Anglican church (CofE). I've never yet seen any other denomination though I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were some somewhere. I wonder if the practice might not simply come from the local Anglican church taking a "block booking" on part of the new cemetery as its own churchyard filled up, in order to accommodate funerals in its own churches? Rather than deliberately providing an option to, ahem, new arrivals. That might explain the lack of current segregation. Adrian PS - I've never been quite sure when a church makes an entry in its burial register these days. I convinced myself from looking at the entries that a funeral on its own did not justify an entry in the burial register, but the situation is confused by churches like St Mary's in Nantwich, which continued with its own burial register even though burials took place down the road at All Saints. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message